"Official" Onkyo TX-NR809 Thread - Page 215 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6421 of 6443 Old 01-12-2016, 11:24 PM
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Just wanted to to ask if any of you have recently dialed in front Heights and then ran either the Audessey DSX Heights or Pl IIz Heights?

With the buzz around "atmos" and the dearth of media I'm interested in buying... I still wanted to see /hear what even matrixed elevated fronts might provide.

Easy to do. Had a decent set of advent bookshelfs around and some old but handy wall brackets. Ran some wire around the screen and fired it up running through the Audessey multi xt. The avr found the new setup, (my back/rears are still there, just unplugged) and as usual, was set to go.

First impression... The Bride was happy... She could hear dialog better. Her hearing is not as it once was but with the ease of switching from 5.1 say thx then to Audessey DSX being toggled through the on screen home menu... The front Soundstage was more to her liking and for that matter, mine as well. The Dolby Pl IIz was tried as well with similar results. I found it to be a bit reserved in comparison to the DSX treatment.

I really wish an alternative to trashing perfectly good avr's was available to give atmos a whirl.

I like the spatial imagery atmos is touted to provide but even though I could buy a cheap avr with atmos now... It just feels wrong to throw away great gear.

Perhaps one of the wizards in the future will sell an add on box that takes the amplified channels from existing gear, run some short patch speaker wire to it and then connect a bit of power for the chipset required for atmos, connecting your existing or new ceiling or atmos up firing channels plus the rest of your 5 or 7/9 system?

Naw, no money in that.

Doug k
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post #6422 of 6443 Old 01-13-2016, 08:16 AM
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To anyone who has already gone through the return and repair process under the special warranty program, maybe a stupid question but do they want you to ship the power cord back to them with the receiver? The instructions say to disconnect all cables from the unit but then they send you a tie and tell you to use it to bundle up the power cable. Is it for your own storage while the receiver is out for repair or for shipping the cable?
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post #6423 of 6443 Old 01-13-2016, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltd76gold View Post
Just wanted to to ask if any of you have recently dialed in front Heights and then ran either the Audessey DSX Heights or Pl IIz Heights?

With the buzz around "atmos" and the dearth of media I'm interested in buying... I still wanted to see /hear what even matrixed elevated fronts might provide.

Easy to do. Had a decent set of advent bookshelfs around and some old but handy wall brackets. Ran some wire around the screen and fired it up running through the Audessey multi xt. The avr found the new setup, (my back/rears are still there, just unplugged) and as usual, was set to go.

First impression... The Bride was happy... She could hear dialog better. Her hearing is not as it once was but with the ease of switching from 5.1 say thx then to Audessey DSX being toggled through the on screen home menu... The front Soundstage was more to her liking and for that matter, mine as well. The Dolby Pl IIz was tried as well with similar results. I found it to be a bit reserved in comparison to the DSX treatment.

I really wish an alternative to trashing perfectly good avr's was available to give atmos a whirl.

I like the spatial imagery atmos is touted to provide but even though I could buy a cheap avr with atmos now... It just feels wrong to throw away great gear.

Perhaps one of the wizards in the future will sell an add on box that takes the amplified channels from existing gear, run some short patch speaker wire to it and then connect a bit of power for the chipset required for atmos, connecting your existing or new ceiling or atmos up firing channels plus the rest of your 5 or 7/9 system?

Naw, no money in that.

Doug k
So I have been running PIIz for some time...mixed impressions. It works well with 7.1 and 5.1 movies and music, but what I determined is that the effect of the height speakers is hardly noticeable. What is noticeable is how the format utilizes the L R and C speakers. Thus, it's not the height speakers giving the sound, it's the others...very similar sound results by disabling the height and still using PIIz. Also, it sometimes (like DSX) does weird things, where audio comes from the Height speakers and not the center...but then suddenly the center again.

Some music sounds great with it and some not so much. Usually I always conclude stereo (just L and R or all channels) sounds better.

Out of all the choices, PIIz does seem better with the right content though.

Atoms is PIIz on steroids. The dedicated height speakers have their own channel and content uses it (opposed to trying post process and send content not designed for height). Atmos does the same thing as PIIz in terms of music...but IMO it's less effective...post processing 2 channel PCM results in mostly L C R used, with low volumes on the hieght speakers....almost like a slightly smart all channel stereo. PIIz seems too really try to spit 2 channels in some content, but atmos is more passive and predictable.
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post #6424 of 6443 Old 01-13-2016, 08:59 AM
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My Onkyo 809 HDMI failed again after the board was replaced. I now use optical inputs for years and it's all good. I have compared to new Onkyo receivers and determined they sound a lot worse now a days...not sure if it's that they are missing a decent room correction software or that components got cheaper.

Minus the HDMI problems, the 809 generation is awesome and the last of Onkyo as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone has a broken receiver out of warranty, Onkyo has a special program to replace with a new version due the HDMI plague. Problem is the new version will sound worse.
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post #6425 of 6443 Old 01-13-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckemoff View Post
My Onkyo 809 HDMI failed again after the board was replaced. I now use optical inputs for years and it's all good. I have compared to new Onkyo receivers and determined they sound a lot worse now a days...not sure if it's that they are missing a decent room correction software or that components got cheaper.

Minus the HDMI problems, the 809 generation is awesome and the last of Onkyo as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone has a broken receiver out of warranty, Onkyo has a special program to replace with a new version due the HDMI plague. Problem is the new version will sound worse.
I've had the 805 and currently own the 809 and 636. Fortunately, I have never had an issue with any of the Onkyo AVR's I've owned. With respect to your observations/experience with sound quality of the 809, I absolutely and totally agree. For whatever reason...I suspect it's related to the combination of power supply (transformers), amps, and DACs...the 809 and some of the earlier generation units sound better to my ears...cleaner, clearer, detailed, more powerful and punchier. Some folks will argue that all AVR's can and will sound the same with the right tweeking. My experience does not support that belief as I've recently had an Onkyo 1030, Denon x6200W, and others...and no amount of tweeking, configuring, and tuning would produce the desired sound quality. This was both straight out of the box with no room correction and subsequently with native room correction run and applied. What is really puzzling is the 636 (AccuEQ) sound qualities are very close to the 809 (Audyssey) and better than the 1030 and 6200. For me, the most important feature is sound quality...bells and whistles are secondary. Perhaps my room acoustics and my sound preferences favor the 809 and 636 but never the less, to my ears, their sound qualities are better when A/B'd against other current AVRs...YMMV.

Panasonic: PT-AE3000 Front Projector
Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1)
Onkyo: TX-NR636 (5.2.2)
Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6
SVS: PB-2000 x 2
Panasonic: DMP-BD85

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post #6426 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldFagen View Post
To anyone who has already gone through the return and repair process under the special warranty program, maybe a stupid question but do they want you to ship the power cord back to them with the receiver? The instructions say to disconnect all cables from the unit but then they send you a tie and tell you to use it to bundle up the power cable. Is it for your own storage while the receiver is out for repair or for shipping the cable?
no- on some receivers you can't "unplug" the cord - on the 809 you can - don't send - had mine back in about a week! +/-
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Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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post #6427 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldFagen View Post
To anyone who has already gone through the return and repair process under the special warranty program, maybe a stupid question but do they want you to ship the power cord back to them with the receiver? The instructions say to disconnect all cables from the unit but then they send you a tie and tell you to use it to bundle up the power cable. Is it for your own storage while the receiver is out for repair or for shipping the cable?
They asked for it, I sent it to them, they sent it back. Other than that I don't know. I would assume they had a test bench set up with a power cord just waiting to be plugged in. The 2nd time I sent it out, (they didn't completely fix it the first time) I forgot to include the power cord and they still fixed the unit.

The section they didn't fix that caused the 2nd return was the section that supports the UWF-1 wifi dongle. When I got it back (the 2nd time) it still didn't work, but with different symptoms. It initialized okay but couldn't see the wifi signal. On here I found a aftermarket and better wifi dongle that worked. You can find the link for that one a few posts back if you need it. ...just found it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...iglink20246-20
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post #6428 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 07:49 AM
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I sent the receiver in without the power cable.
Regarding Wi-Fi, I've been using that TP-Link adapter since Day 1!

Thanks guys!
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post #6429 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 08:40 AM
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I sent the receiver in without the power cable.
Regarding Wi-Fi, I've been using that TP-Link adapter since Day 1!

Thanks guys!
Cool! Goes to prove the power of forums like these.

PS Where is my autographed copy of Aja? I go to the mailbox everyday but no Aja... feeling sad. .. just sayin'
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post #6430 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 10:20 AM
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PS Where is my autographed copy of Aja? I go to the mailbox everyday but no Aja... feeling sad. .. just sayin'
WHAT?? You didn't get it yet? Sent you a sealed original ABC promo pressing and got Walter and Gary to sign it, too!!
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post #6431 of 6443 Old 01-14-2016, 11:09 AM
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WHAT?? You didn't get it yet? Sent you a sealed original ABC promo pressing and got Walter and Gary to sign it, too!!
Those Joisey post office guys, got the bootie!
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post #6432 of 6443 Old 01-20-2016, 02:48 PM
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Been running the IIz Heights now for a bit and have found them to indeed fill out the front Soundstage to a slight degree especially when receiving a 2.0 signal from our local network affiliates here in the hinterland between Texas and Mexico.

With 5.1 there is a bit of difference as well, but 7.1 without the backs is not as rewarding.

Since my backs are still in place and just need to be plugged in to function, I was wondering if anyone has a work around for not having to rerun Audessey every time I switch between IIz and lossless 7.1?

Probably not possible... But would be a very handy hack.

Thanks

Doug k
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post #6433 of 6443 Old 01-21-2016, 11:23 AM
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Man... The more I use this machine the better I like it... Plus it is paid for.

Connecting the sbr's leaving the IIz Heights connected as well, Audessey found all Nine speakers and set it up as it would for 5.1, 5.1 IIz or 7.1, but YOU have the choice to select front Heights or Sbr's in the home menu!

Dolby True or DTS can be played in 7.1 with THX engaged or not. On the same page, you can select IIz if you have a 5.1 disk or 2.0 broadcast, either lossless or otherwise.

Definitely could not find this morsel anywhere in the manual or online.

Still a 7 channel avr, but more flexible than I thought was possible.

Not Atmos, but it is cool to have the choice when I slap in a 7.1 lossless disk to engage the SBR's!

Doug k
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post #6434 of 6443 Old 01-24-2016, 05:08 PM
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Remarkably fast turnaround on the repair. They shipped it back to me one day after they received it and it got here two days after that. Happy to say it's working like new, Wi-Fi and all! Kudos to Onkyo.
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post #6435 of 6443 Old 01-24-2016, 06:35 PM
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remarkably fast turnaround on the repair. They shipped it back to me one day after they received it and it got here two days after that. Happy to say it's working like new, wi-fi and all! Kudos to onkyo.
excellent!!!
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post #6436 of 6443 Old 01-24-2016, 06:40 PM
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Yeah! Glad to hear that!
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post #6437 of 6443 Old 02-01-2016, 11:21 PM
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Recently replaced a 3 yeard old samsung 55" led tv with a new samung 55" 4k tv. The menus, remote, and smarthub all look the same for the most part. My problem is this, I want ARC to work for plex software on the tv. It used to work but it was tricky to get setup if I remember correctly. ARC is turned on for the receiver and anynet+ is tuned on the tv. I got the hdmi going to the arc hdmi port on the tv. The problem is when i open the plex on the tv on the front of the receiver it reads analog instead of hdmi. I get no audio cause of that. I'm sure there is a way to get this working but I am lost at this point of what to try to fix it. Both the tv and receiver are on the latest firmware. I use plex a lot so its really frustrating that this isn't working. The picture seems to be working just fine its just the audio not playing. If i turn off the receiver the audio plays just fine from the tv speakers. As far as the directv its works just fine through the receiver. I am guessing its hdmi handshaking issue or an ARC issue. I guess it could also be anynet+ issue as well. When i do device search in the anynet+ menu it see both the directv box and the 809 but after the search it saids it only found the directv box. If i disable anynet+ on the tv then it completely shuts the audio from being playing by the receiver in plex. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #6438 of 6443 Old 02-02-2016, 09:59 PM
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I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR809 that's had the HDMI board replaced. I just realized that the front chan outputs are not the same level and that's after unplugging and running Audyssey. I also placed an SPL meter center room and ran separate fix frequency L and R tests with both high and low frequencies and the two channels don't match at all. L chan has more low end and R has more high end. You can even feel the diff if you're running a low freq test and feel the amount of woofer excursion between the two. I've always wondered why I hate the sound of this Onkyo and now I know why. It just took me years to figure it out. Does anyone think it would be worth sending it back? Not sure what kind of cost I'd be looking at but hate the idea of paying for it.

Yes I swapped the speakers and yes it's the amp

Last edited by Barn01; 02-03-2016 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Did testing
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post #6439 of 6443 Old 02-05-2016, 11:03 AM
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Regarding the frequency issue you are hearing and validated with a spl...

Using your phone and an app like kewlsofts spl meter that includes a spectrum analyzer that expands to 3rd octaves, run the same tests and you will be able to see just where the eq is faulty. Report this to Onkyo. Screenshots may be helpful to email to Onkyo.

In any event, contact Onkyo with the issue.

Your issue is a first. Definitely something wrong. It should show on the spectrum analyzer even just running the avr's speaker level setting. I'd be interested in seeing the screenshots here as well.

Thanks
Doug k
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post #6440 of 6443 Old 02-05-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ltd76gold View Post
Regarding the frequency issue you are hearing and validated with a spl...

Using your phone and an app like kewlsofts spl meter that includes a spectrum analyzer that expands to 3rd octaves, run the same tests and you will be able to see just where the eq is faulty. Report this to Onkyo. Screenshots may be helpful to email to Onkyo.

In any event, contact Onkyo with the issue.

Your issue is a first. Definitely something wrong. It should show on the spectrum analyzer even just running the avr's speaker level setting. I'd be interested in seeing the screenshots here as well.

Thanks
Doug k
Well I have stuck my SPL meter right into the port of both the L&R to compare against a range of low fixed freq (30-60hz) The box resonance is around 45Hz and if I use that value then I'm easily -4dB on the right side. That's with Vol at 40, I forgot to test to see if it was linear or offset ... hmmm.

It looks like it's pretty straight fwd to change the power transistors. TTA0001's, getting them is another story. Mind you TTA0002's are much easier to get and the specs are almost identical (0002's are 180W instead of 150W like the 0001's).

Before I go changing anything I'll measure the input to the L&R Transistors with a fixed frequency and see if the low voltage amp is working right, before I point the finger at the power trans. The low voltage amps can be swaped by the look of it. However if it is the power trans that's bad I'll replace both L&R with the same P/N to ensure linearity between the two sides.
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post #6441 of 6443 Old 02-05-2016, 12:41 PM
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Below are left and right graphs (rough as I have a fan running in la Cava) with the 75 dB test tone from the 809 and the aforementioned app.

Your 4 dB drop in bass response is puzzling but checking the lv amps is a good spot to check if you wish a diy fix. I am not a wiz with a soldering gun but you appear to be.

If I were you although and I could prove to Onkyo that you have the problem diagnosed as well as you have, I might have them fix it as it could be free other than the total pita with sending it off to the krankenhaus.

Anyway, from the little experience I do have using the higher watt 0002's should really not be an issue. I would have to speak with a tech, which you actually may be from the sounds of your fix idea, just to be sure that the swap will cure the issue.

All the best
Doug k
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post #6442 of 6443 Old 02-07-2016, 06:50 PM
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So this gets even more interesting...

Setup:
Set AVR Vol = 50
Set speaker setup > level calibration for L&R = 0.0dB



Measure L&R with both physical sound meter and Kewlsofts SPL Meter app (The app is great for a Relative measure by using the REL and Pause button). Note that the placement of the SPL meters are CRUCIAL. Being a little out of place or even your hand position can make a measurable difference. I put the phone mic on the same open area of the tweeter guard and I placed the phone (mic side facing in) in the middle of the base port.



The L side main speaker bass port @ 0.0 level using 45Hz fixed freq



The R side main speaker base port @ 0.0 level using 45Hz fixed freq



- Using the Onkyo test tone and changing to the tweeter I noted about the same difference in dB using the app (placement is crucial).
- Set your L&R levels (on the Level Cal Screen) to match (as close to REL = 0 as possible) using the REL and pause buttons.
- Repeat for the bass port (pay attention to have the phone in the same position on the port and keep your fingers away from the port while you measure)
- Adjust for the REL = 0 and note the difference of AVR levels between tweeter 0 and woofer 0.

45 Hz on base port youtube.com/watch?v=TlkUFnAZzT4

Test tone on tweeter


My L&R woofer and tweeter measured the same respectively (as seen above with REL 0.2 and 0.1) with a constant setting of a 3.5dB difference on the Level Cal page (seen below).



I didn't do this because it ensures optimal listening and I know this doesn't take the place of Audyssey. I did this to test the AVR and thought others might like to see that you shouldn't trust equal levels to actually be equal. This test could also point out inefficiencies in a woofer or tweeter.

Hope I didn't bore you

Last edited by Barn01; 02-08-2016 at 09:35 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
So this gets even more interesting...

Setup:
Set AVR Vol = 50
Set speaker setup > level calibration for L&R = 0.0dB



Measure L&R with both physical sound meter and Kewlsofts SPL Meter app (The app is great for a Relative measure by using the REL and Pause button). Note that the placement of the SPL meters are CRUCIAL. Being a little out of place or even your hand position can make a measurable difference. I put the phone mic on the same open area of the tweeter guard and I placed the phone (mic side facing in) in the middle of the base port.



The L side main speaker bass port @ 0.0 level using 45Hz fixed freq



The R side main speaker base port @ 0.0 level using 45Hz fixed freq



- Using the Onkyo test tone and changing to the tweeter I noted about the same difference in dB using the app (placement is crucial).
- Set your L&R levels (on the Level Cal Screen) to match (as close to REL = 0 as possible) using the REL and pause buttons.
- Repeat for the bass port (pay attention to have the phone in the same position on the port and keep your fingers away from the port while you measure)
- Adjust for the REL = 0 and note the difference of AVR levels between tweeter 0 and woofer 0.

45 Hz on base port youtube.com/watch?v=TlkUFnAZzT4

Test tone on tweeter


My L&R woofer and tweeter measured the same respectively (as seen above with REL 0.2 and 0.1) with a constant setting of a 3.5dB difference on the Level Cal page (seen below).



I didn't do this because it ensures optimal listening and I know this doesn't take the place of Audyssey. I did this to test the AVR and thought others might like to see that you shouldn't trust equal levels to actually be equal. This test could also point out inefficiencies in a woofer or tweeter.

Hope I didn't bore you
Very interesting but maybe "smaller" pictures might be helpful!

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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