The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 186 - AVS Forum
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post #5551 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Be advised, if you did not know this already, that if you load a previously-saved measurement file, you cannot add new measurement points. This is a known limitation of the current Pro version. If you want to add new measurement points, you need to start from scratch.
Interesting. I have done that previously and got no error message.
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post #5552 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What am I missing here? I have been an Audyssey Pro user for at least 5 years for multiple processors and have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about a USB to serial adapter. I have no such device nor does my kit need one. All connections are single ended (mic to mic pre-amp, mic pre-amp to Integra; and then the PC is connected via Ethernet cable to the network switch to which the Integra is also connected.

Consider me confused
Some pre-pros use a serial connection. The Marantz 8801 is an example. The Audyssey Pro kit comes with a USB to Serial adapter for those without a PC with a true serial port. No new laptops I know of have a real serial port anymore, you can still get PC's that have them. But generally, using a USB to serial device is the most practical for most. When required.
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post #5553 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
]Some pre-pros use a serial connection. The Marantz 8801 is an example. The Audyssey Pro kit comes with a USB to Serial adapter for those without a PC with a true serial port. No new laptops I know of have a real serial port anymore, you can still get PC's that have them. But generally, using a USB to serial device is the most practical for most. When required.
Thanks.
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post #5554 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What am I missing here? I have been an Audyssey Pro user for at least 5 years for multiple processors and have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about a USB to serial adapter. I have no such device nor does my kit need one. All connections are single ended (mic to mic pre-amp, mic pre-amp to Integra; and then the PC is connected via Ethernet cable to the network switch to which the Integra is also connected.

Consider me confused
No need to be confused. Onkyo/Integra use network connections. Denon/Marantz use a serial-to-USB cable. Different implementations by different vendors. Results are the same--a superior calibration!
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post #5555 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Be advised, if you did not know this already, that if you load a previously-saved measurement file, you cannot add new measurement points. This is a known limitation of the current Pro version. If you want to add new measurement points, you need to start from scratch.
Interesting. I have done that previously and got no error message.
This is a very specific bug that only affects Pro users with AVR's that have MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT. I don't recall what model AVR you have.

As you know, when you run the calibration, Audyssey calculates separate delays and trims for two sub channels (if you have SubEQ HT). When you reload a saved measurement set and attempt to add additional mic measurement points, Pro does not preserve the separate sub delays and trims properly, resulting in a flawed calibration. The issue was reported to Audyssey, and they acknowledged it. The official response is that adding additional measurement points to existing calibrations is no longer supported. The reason given by Audyssey is that the AVR manufacturers are unwilling to allocate sufficient processor resources to Pro for this feature to be supported any more.

You can search this thread--the topic has been discussed in detail.
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post #5556 of 5614 Old 06-16-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
What am I missing here? I have been an Audyssey Pro user for at least 5 years for multiple processors and have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about a USB to serial adapter. I have no such device nor does my kit need one. All connections are single ended (mic to mic pre-amp, mic pre-amp to Integra; and then the PC is connected via Ethernet cable to the network switch to which the Integra is also connected.

Consider me confused
This applies only, if you need a serial connection to your AVR or pre/pro, as I do with my Denon AVP-A1. Then you need a USB to serial connector for your PC. This applies only to AVRs or pre/pro's having only a serial connector and no Ethernet/IP connection.

Confusion over?

PS: AustinJerry is right.
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post #5557 of 5614 Old 06-17-2014, 03:59 AM
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Confusion over. Furthermore, I did look in the carry bag and found the part. So now I know.
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post #5558 of 5614 Old 06-17-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Confusion over. Furthermore, I did look in the carry bag and found the part. So now I know.
Yeah, if you never needed, it absolutely OK to be confused and to say 'what the heck are these guys talking about'???

But if you need it for you AVR/pre-pro, then you find this cable quite fast in your Audyssey bag.

Always a question of the POV but we are happy to help here and also get help. I already learned a lot from other members.

Cheers
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post #5559 of 5614 Old 06-23-2014, 08:20 AM
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Hey guys looking for some help. Having a problem very similar to the one described by tratliff a few pages back. I have a Marantz AV 8801 and a pro kit that I have previously run a full calibration on. I recently tried to do a new calibration it went through the subwoofer step correctly and through my first location correctly but when I moved to the second location the chirps would get louder and louder until I got a message saying that there was too much noise! I decided to restart everything but now at the subwoofer leveling step I keep getting a high reading of 89 db for both subs! I know it's not that loud and even if I lower the sub significantly it still says it's 89 db. I skipped the sub leveling step but then I get the loud chirps and the message about it not being loud enough??

I reset my 8801 and I tried a different laptop but still getting the same problem. I contacted Audyssey and they have given me the option of return in the mic and mic preamp for inspection. I'm probably going to do that but just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what I could try? I also noticed that something might be wrong with either the mic preamp or the ac adapter for it. When I plug it in the amber light on it slowly dims?? It still picks up a reading but like I said it's not working. Any ideas?
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post #5560 of 5614 Old 06-23-2014, 08:58 AM
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I could solve all my problems by resetting the AVR up to now. But the light on the mic-amp is solid in my case. It's not fading usually.
I would recommend to send or bring it to repair.
One cause could be that it started to fail after you first measurement. If there is something wrong with the microphone, Audyssey cannot work. So I would recommend to solve this problem first.

May be you know somebody who has another one for double-checking?

Good luck!
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post #5561 of 5614 Old 07-11-2014, 07:31 AM
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Just an update on my problem if anyone is interested. I sent my mic and preamp in to Audyssey. Turns out the preamp had a problem. They didn't find anything wrong with the mic. I should receive the mic with a new preamp and power supply tomorrow. Hopefully it works now.
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post #5562 of 5614 Old 07-14-2014, 01:08 AM
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A query for other Pro users.
I am aware of the "dual sub distance issue" as documented on this thread, but have not come across any other distance issues. However, I have noted that the distances reported by the Aud Pro PC application are not always being loaded exactly into my Denon 4520 AVR, the loaded values are very close, but not exact.
My center channel shows as 3.02m, but gets loaded as 3.00m
Both of my side surrounds show as 1.99m, but get loaded as 1.98m

Has anyone else noted this behaviour? It may only affect the Denon 4520.
I have not posted a query to Audyssey yet, and with their apparent lack of interest in addressing issues, I may not bother....................
Regards, Mike.

Edit.
I think I may have worked out where the error occurs. My thinking is that the internal Audyssey processing may be in feet and inches, that are then rounded initially by the PC, and later by the Denon - with different schemes applied (rounded verses truncated). The differences are so small that it has no impact.
Any other thoughts, observations welcome,
Regards again, Mike.

Last edited by AV_mike; 07-14-2014 at 02:56 AM.
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post #5563 of 5614 Old 07-14-2014, 05:06 AM
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Mike, the differences you have observed are quite small. Just curious, how are you measuring physical distances to such precision? Your hypothesis may well account for the differences. Also, the distances measured by Audyssey are electronic distances, not physical distances. If you look at the calculated distance for the sub, for example, it is rarely, if ever, the same as the physical distance. The difference is in the internal processing delay attributable to the sub's electronics. Would there not be the same possibility of a small electronic delay associated with the other channels as well?

In my experience, the only way to check the distances is to use a tape measure, and I am sure Audyssey is much more accurate than this method.
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post #5564 of 5614 Old 07-14-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Mike, the differences you have observed are quite small. Just curious, how are you measuring physical distances to such precision? Your hypothesis may well account for the differences. Also, the distances measured by Audyssey are electronic distances, not physical distances. If you look at the calculated distance for the sub, for example, it is rarely, if ever, the same as the physical distance. The difference is in the internal processing delay attributable to the sub's electronics. Would there not be the same possibility of a small electronic delay associated with the other channels as well?

In my experience, the only way to check the distances is to use a tape measure, and I am sure Audyssey is much more accurate than this method.
Hi Jerry,

The distances I was referring to are those shown on the Audyssey Pro Certificate, against those shown on the 4520 speaker distance setup screen after storing the Pro Calibration to the AVR. I always check that the various settings (crossovers, distances, levels, etc) have successfully been transferred over the USB-Serial link - that's when I noticed the small differences.

Regards, Mike.
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post #5565 of 5614 Old 07-14-2014, 11:27 AM
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Since Pro is transferring the distances to the AVR, I don't see how there could be any differences at all. I looked at my AVR and at my most recent certificate, and they are exactly the same. I don't think there is any cause for concern.
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post #5566 of 5614 Old 07-15-2014, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Since Pro is transferring the distances to the AVR, I don't see how there could be any differences at all. I looked at my AVR and at my most recent certificate, and they are exactly the same. I don't think there is any cause for concern.
Hi Jerry,
Do you have the Denon set to display feet & inches or metres? And do you enter room dimensions into Aud Pro in feet & inches or metres?
I have always used metres.
Regards, Mike.
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post #5567 of 5614 Old 07-15-2014, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
Hi Jerry,
Do you have the Denon set to display feet & inches or metres? And do you enter room dimensions into Aud Pro in feet & inches or metres?
I have always used metres.
Regards, Mike.
My Denon displays feet and inches. And there is no need to load room dimensions into Pro. That is only for professional installers to use for documenting customer installations, and has no actual bearing on the calibration.
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post #5568 of 5614 Old 07-15-2014, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
My Denon displays feet and inches. And there is no need to load room dimensions into Pro. That is only for professional installers to use for documenting customer installations, and has no actual bearing on the calibration.
I've always thought that room dims and system specs was data gathering by the mothership.

Jeff
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post #5569 of 5614 Old 07-15-2014, 06:16 AM
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I've always thought that room dims and system specs was data gathering by the mothership.

Jeff
Chris K wants all the data he can gather on us "non-Pro" Pro users.

I only mentioned the room dimensions as it may determine the units used by Aud on the certificates.

When I get some spare time I'll conduct my own investigation.

At present I'm just happy that Pro has achieved a much better "automatic" sub to mains splice than I could manage after many hours testing with REW. Also, although the target curve editor is limited in range, it has allowed me to try a subtle house curve instead of using Dynamic EQ, that occasionally appeared to overdo the bass (I listen way below Reference, and the boost can seem excessive - a personal choice, not a criticism)

Regards, mike.
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post #5570 of 5614 Old 07-16-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
Also, although the target curve editor is limited in range, it has allowed me to try a subtle house curve instead of using Dynamic EQ, that occasionally appeared to overdo the bass (I listen way below Reference, and the boost can seem excessive - a personal choice, not a criticism)
Have you tried changing the reference level offset value?
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post #5571 of 5614 Old 07-16-2014, 12:43 PM
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Have you tried changing the reference level offset value?
Yes, and I may go back and experiment some more with DEQ - just need some spare time, and a quiet house...........................
Regards, Mike.
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post #5572 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 09:19 AM
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So my local stereo guy wants $550 to come do a setup for a Denon 3100. He claims $350 of that is a license fee and $200 is their fee. Which, seems to be BS, looks like the license is $150. And, a pro calibration kit is $400. So if I were going to spend $550 for a one time thing, why wouldn't I just buy the $400 kit myself plus a $150 license if needed and do it any time I change anything, or is that even possible?

http://www.residentialsystems.com/pr...tion-kit/80800
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post #5573 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
So my local stereo guy wants $550 to come do a setup for a Denon 3100. He claims $350 of that is a license fee and $200 is their fee. Which, seems to be BS, looks like the license is $150. And, a pro calibration kit is $400. So if I were going to spend $550 for a one time thing, why wouldn't I just buy the $400 kit myself plus a $150 license if needed and do it any time I change anything, or is that even possible?

http://www.residentialsystems.com/pr...tion-kit/80800
$150 is HIS cost for the license. Most businesses don't sell their products at their cost. The cost of the kit is more like $500. Unless someone is giving them away (at a loss). And then there's the experience to do it, travel to do it, etc. I see most installers charging for the work then passing the cost to the customer for the license. But it's a matter of semantics if they charge $550 and say $150 is for license, and $400 is for calibration, or if he says $200 was for the license. Bottom line is it's $550. He hurts himself there because a revisit you would expect to pay $200 (instead of $400) for a recalibration with an existing license. But that's his business.

But if you are OK learning how to do it yourself, for ~$650 ($150 lic, ~$500 kit), you can be him, with the kit and one license. Then YOU can give the licenses away to friends (or customers if you prefer)., and charge for calibrations yourself, if you want.

But mostly, for the extra $100 it will cost you vs. his price, you get the ability to play, experiment, fine tune. And at your leisure, taking all the time and measurements you want. Then if you make any change, however minute, you can do it all again for yourself, next time for free. Or change configs and try for a few days, then change back, etc.

And, it's really not hard to do. I've got two in stock, ready and waiting.

Cheer,
Scott
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post #5574 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
So my local stereo guy wants $550 to come do a setup for a Denon 3100. He claims $350 of that is a license fee and $200 is their fee. Which, seems to be BS, looks like the license is $150. And, a pro calibration kit is $400. So if I were going to spend $550 for a one time thing, why wouldn't I just buy the $400 kit myself plus a $150 license if needed and do it any time I change anything, or is that even possible?

http://www.residentialsystems.com/pr...tion-kit/80800
That is not a good deal at all. No one ever does only one calibration. As soon as you make any change to your listening environment, e.g. move a piece of furniture, add additional speakers, etc. your calibration is obsolete. You are much better off paying the $550 cost of the Pro kit, plus the $150 for the AVR-specific license so you can perform multiple calibrations yourself. Or save the entire $700 and simply use the consumer version of the Audyssey calibration.
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post #5575 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
So my local stereo guy wants $550 to come do a setup for a Denon 3100. He claims $350 of that is a license fee and $200 is their fee. Which, seems to be BS, looks like the license is $150. And, a pro calibration kit is $400. So if I were going to spend $550 for a one time thing, why wouldn't I just buy the $400 kit myself plus a $150 license if needed and do it any time I change anything, or is that even possible?

http://www.residentialsystems.com/pr...tion-kit/80800
$150 is the fee for the license. He may be marking it up. Businesses tend to do that.

$550 seems like a lot to me, but then I don't know what market you are in or the going rates. On the occasions that I have done "prefessional" calibrations, I have charged $250 - $300.

I was/am not a "pro" ... I am an enthusiast like you. And I made the same calculations you did ... and bought a kit.

Jeff
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post #5576 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 10:09 AM
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I'm surprised the kit can be bought at even $500 too, but maybe he is using something different? He told me it was a $2,000 microphone that he didn't have to pay for up front but Audessey makes it up by charging the license. Is there a better kit/microphone or did he just make that up?
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post #5577 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 10:16 AM
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The kit has always cost $550, and the licenses have always cost $150. Sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about.
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post #5578 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
A query for other Pro users.
I am aware of the "dual sub distance issue" as documented on this thread, but have not come across any other distance issues. However, I have noted that the distances reported by the Aud Pro PC application are not always being loaded exactly into my Denon 4520 AVR, the loaded values are very close, but not exact.
My center channel shows as 3.02m, but gets loaded as 3.00m
Both of my side surrounds show as 1.99m, but get loaded as 1.98m

Has anyone else noted this behaviour? It may only affect the Denon 4520.
I have not posted a query to Audyssey yet, and with their apparent lack of interest in addressing issues, I may not bother....................
Regards, Mike.

Edit.
I think I may have worked out where the error occurs. My thinking is that the internal Audyssey processing may be in feet and inches, that are then rounded initially by the PC, and later by the Denon - with different schemes applied (rounded verses truncated). The differences are so small that it has no impact.
Any other thoughts, observations welcome,
Regards again, Mike.
I guess this is due to the granularity of the measurements in the AVR. May be the Audyssey Pro program is more precise and has no limitations, therefore the distances are somehow truncated. However, your example shows, that both values are precise in 0,01 m steps. This is truly funny, because some AVRs can do only 0,3 m steps or something similar.
Seems my explanation does not fit and AustinJerry said it all.
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post #5579 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
I'm surprised the kit can be bought at even $500 too, but maybe he is using something different? He told me it was a $2,000 microphone that he didn't have to pay for up front but Audessey makes it up by charging the license. Is there a better kit/microphone or did he just make that up?
May be you can use a $2,000 mircophone with the kit, which is then surely not from Audyssey and therefore not calibrated. I have never heard of a different microphone offered for the kit. But ask Audyssey to be 100% sure.
I agree to what AustinJerry wrote and recommend the same: Buy the kit and DIY.

The kit is as it is and should not be changed. The whole chain - microphone and microphone amp - is calibrated individually by Audyssey and the calibration file is encrypted. You cannot use a different calibration file for another microphone with Audyssey Pro. I don't think, that this microphone, he is proposing, fits to the Audyssey Pro program. However, you cannot use Pro without the number on the box and the microphone. Therefore, if he is using it and loading the wrong calibration file - according the number - this will end in garbage.
I fully agree to AustinJerry: This guy does not know, what he is talking about. And if all this is true, you are truly wasting your money.

Last edited by Ganymed4; 07-17-2014 at 11:07 AM.
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post #5580 of 5614 Old 07-17-2014, 12:15 PM
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Hey Ganymed, truly an outstanding performance by die Manschaft, nicht wahr? I thoroughly enjoyed the World Cup this year, and the best team won, for sure!
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