The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 188 - AVS Forum
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post #5611 of 5637 Old 07-24-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
Excellent! How did oyu figure out what the non-page-associated link would be?

I noticed this format from my notification emails. Editing the post number to get this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26010674-post.html



It's not original work. I had some great help from a fellow member when I was amending the other FAQs.

The difference between the two types of links is this:

The one that is dependent on ppp, and which you get if you copy and paste the Permalink url:

Code:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1346723-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-post-1-a-102.html
#post22429521

And my modified one using a unique ID:

Code:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1346723-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-post-3048-a-post22429521.html?highlight=#post22429521
Scroll them to the right to see the difference.


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post #5612 of 5637 Old 07-24-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Sooo, we need an FAQ FAQ?
Haha. Yes, it seems so. Until AVS get vBulletin all fixed anyway.

It';s not quite as bad as it seems - IIRC only links that reference posts made before the changeover are FUBARed. Links made after the changeover work as intended. Of course, the FAQs are waaaaay before, hence the problem, now fixed.


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post #5613 of 5637 Old 07-26-2014, 06:41 AM
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Bonjour,

How to position the mic when taking measures with Audyssey MultEQ "simple" & Pro.

See here.

Hugo


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post #5614 of 5637 Old 07-26-2014, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Bonjour,

How to position the mic when taking measures with Audyssey MultEQ "simple" & Pro.

See here.

Hugo
Thanks Hugo. I will add this to the Pro and the regular FAQs when I update them to include Atmos information. Thanks for getting that answered "aux petits oignons"


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post #5615 of 5637 Old 08-26-2014, 10:11 AM
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Just wondering..........................

With the new Atmos ready Denon - Marantz AVRs being released, how long will it take Audyssey to produce an update to Aud Pro software for those devices that are compatible?

How will current Pro users feel about having to use the standard microphone (they will probably be pleased by the speed increase, as Pro is really slow)

Will Audyssey include any other improvements? Or maybe some bug fixes? I don't think I'll hold my breath............................................ ...........turning blue already.

Regards, Mike.
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post #5616 of 5637 Old 08-26-2014, 10:11 AM
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Just wondering..........................

With the new Atmos ready Denon - Marantz AVRs being released, how long will it take Audyssey to produce an update to Aud Pro software for those devices that are compatible?

How will current Pro users feel about having to use the standard microphone (they will probably be pleased by the speed increase, as Pro is really slow)

Will Audyssey include any other improvements? Or maybe some bug fixes? I don't think I'll hold my breath............................................ ...........turning blue already.

Regards, Mike.
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post #5617 of 5637 Old 08-26-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
Just wondering..........................

With the new Atmos ready Denon - Marantz AVRs being released, how long will it take Audyssey to produce an update to Aud Pro software for those devices that are compatible?

How will current Pro users feel about having to use the standard microphone (they will probably be pleased by the speed increase, as Pro is really slow)

Will Audyssey include any other improvements? Or maybe some bug fixes? I don't think I'll hold my breath............................................ ...........turning blue already.

Regards, Mike.
Gee, thanks, Mike. We were all trying to take a nap in here...

There has been a general statement from Audyssey that they will support the new AVR's with the new Atmos speaker configurations. To me, if Audyssey supports a standard calibration on the new hardware, and update to support a Pro calibration won't be far behind. As to how long we will need to wait, I don't think any of us know at this time. And whether there will be other bug fixes/enhancements, your guess is as good as mine. While we are waiting, I don't think any current Pro user will balk at performing a consumer calibration using the generic mic for some period of time. Certainly better than no calibration, IMO.
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post #5618 of 5637 Old 08-26-2014, 11:48 AM
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post #5619 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 09:46 AM
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Audyssey vs. alternatives

I am primarily a Mch classical music listener who watches movies and music videos less frequently. So, new video oriented technologies - 4k, Atmos, etc. - are really of secondary interest to me right now. I will wait patiently until they get the details sorted out and see if they become main stream, which 3D, deep color and other bally-hooed technologies have failed to do. Yes, Atmos has great sonic potential, though I think its competitor Auro might be better suited to music. But, Auro faces a tough, uphill battle against Dolby Atmos and against a likely DTS entry into the 3D audio fray.

So, I will watch that all from the sidelines, understanding that there is great potential there for more realistic 3D sound, even with music. Meanwhile, Audyssey DSX, etc. also have no interest for me, as they are synthesized, not discrete, sound processing tools, or should I say, unflatteringly, gimmicks that do not enhance the music playback experience.

What interests me much more than all this right now is computer audio. It can be frustrating because it is newer and not neatly consumer packaged. I got dragged into it reluctantly at first by the idea of ripping a large library, which I now have, of hi res Mch disks and downloads to my PC and NAS. I am now contemplating doing away with my Integra prepro entirely in favor of JRiver, an ExaSound Mch DAC and Dirac Live room EQ. My testing of those is about to begin. So, we shall see how it stacks up sonically. Kal loves the combination. I am aware that I will be giving up some input convenience, but I think I have answers to most of that on the PC.

Dirac Live seems a more advanced take on EQ than Audyssey, plus it does not have the 48k sampling rate limit, going to 96k currently with 192k promised soon. Not sure if that alone will make a huge difference. But, there are some other interesting theoretical differences vs. Audyssey. And, it has many similarities to Audyssey Pro capabilities.

Curious that Audyssey is not making a bigger push to expand on the existing, but little known, IK ARC 2 PC studio EQ tool for home PC audio fools like me. That inexpensive tool is just XT/32 under the covers, however it appears to be stereo only. Perhaps, that evolution will happen soon. It, too, overcomes the 48k limit imposed by prepro/AVR makers and their limited DSP horsepower.

So, possibly, after years of happily using Audyssey, Pro and an Integra processor, I might be about to make a major switch. Stay tuned.
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post #5620 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 11:10 AM
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I, for one, would be very interested in hearing about your experiences. I have toyed with the idea of setting up a HTPC for MC hi-res music, but so far the complexity has been a turn-off. I have read others' threads describing their experiences, and it has always seemed that they have spent an inordinate amount of time doing systems integration work. On the positive front, we are now starting to see more turn-key systems coming into the market, although they are a bit pricey right now.

I recommend you start a new thread to document your journey and, if you post the link here, I'll definitely enjoy following your progress.

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post #5621 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 01:09 PM
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Thanks, Jerry. I am not intending to hijack this thread and turn it into one about computer audio. There are plenty of threads at Computer Audiophile and elsewhere that go into the details.

But, I will say that creating an HTPC these days has become much less crazy than it used to be. I use a plain vanilla, but powerful I7 PC with Windows. There is nothing fancy or specialized about it. The only real reason I can see to go the fancy, expensive, specialized route, like Baetis or CAPS, is for fan noise abatement if it has to be in the listening room. Although, those guys might claim all kinds of other special sauce inside, like special shielding or outboard power supplies. Audio mythology does not stop with PCs. Mine is in the adjoining room, so plain vanilla is fine.

I have been using it via HDMI into my prepro for nearly a year. It sounds noticeably better than my Oppo player on Mch SACD, and BD video quality is indistinguishable.

The only thing that had me stumped for awhile was assuring HDMI support for 88 or 176k PCM, which are the best choices for DSD converted from SACD. 96/192k does not sound as good, and DSD bitstreaming does not appear to be supported. It turns out that the whole issue disappears as long as you do not use an NVidia GeForce graphics card. None of their cards do support those sampling rates, not that such an elementary fact is in any of their spec sheets, which are for gamers, not audiophiles. PC store kids were clueless. But, AMD Radeon and Intel Integrated Graphics all do just fine at any common sampling rate for HDMI. With my ExaSound DAC hookup, that is via (asynchronous) USB, so all sampling rates, even pure, unconverted DSD works fine.

I have not really hit any major snafus or difficulties so far, except a few flakey power connections my amateur friend who built the PC caused. I was able to diagnose them myself and get back to running. All the software, not much really, just mainly JRiver, I have tried has worked as advertised with no major hassles. JRiver is chock full of features, so it has a long learning process.

The only issue has been the learning exercise, because it forced me to get into a lot of unfamiliar territory. I knew nothing about NAS, for example. So, that took some research and learning. Now, I have 13 x 4TB drives spinning in RAID 5.

So, the ExaSound is now working first time with no trouble, including its ASIO driver, and it sounds mighty good at first blush. Time to download Dirac Live.

I will say that the forums will pull you in a lot of crazy directions, and be largely useless, particularly for outdated postings. It does take time to sift through and come up with a simple, undistracted plan you can execute straightforwardly. Attempting to try this or that piece of software or hardware without a plan could lead to grief.
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post #5622 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 01:21 PM
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You make it sound so simple! .

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post #5623 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 02:00 PM
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You make it sound so simple! .
Actually, it is. It is the fear, uncertainty and doubt due to ignorance in the early stages that really takes the time to mentally get over.
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post #5624 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Actually, it is. It is the fear, uncertainty and doubt due to ignorance in the early stages that really takes the time to mentally get over.
I was not aware JRiver would output MCH DSD over HDMI. Or are you doing USB to external MCH DAC.

Is there an Audyssey Pro solution that can be integrated into an HTPC?
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post #5625 of 5637 Old 08-31-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Dirac Live seems a more advanced take on EQ than Audyssey, plus it does not have the 48k sampling rate limit, going to 96k currently with 192k promised soon..................................
..........................It, too, overcomes the 48k limit imposed by prepro/AVR makers and their limited DSP horsepower.
NAD says they run Audyssey MultEQ/Pro through at 24/96.

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So, the ExaSound is now working first time with no trouble, including its ASIO driver, and it sounds mighty good at first blush. Time to download Dirac Live.
Welcome to the club.

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It is the fear, uncertainty and doubt due to ignorance in the early stages that really takes the time to mentally get over.
Easier than setting up a turntable.

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post #5626 of 5637 Old 09-01-2014, 07:41 AM
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I was not aware JRiver would output MCH DSD over HDMI. Or are you doing USB to external MCH DAC.

Is there an Audyssey Pro solution that can be integrated into an HTPC?
Jeff - not entirely sure, but I do not think JRiver can bitstream DSD via HDMI, but it can via USB with the appropriate ASIO driver, like Exasound's, and compatible DAC. I tried that briefly yesterday. Superficially, I thought JRiver's on-the-fly translation to 88k PCM sounded about as good. Which is to say pretty darned good, even without EQ which I hope to install today.

JRiver can also do DSD/DoP over USB for other DACS like Mytek. But, DSD is, of course, incompatible with the settings in JRiver for speaker distance and bass management, not to mention Dirac Live or any other EQ package.

I am aware of no PC version to apply Audyssey MultEQ filters to the signal, other than the IK ARC-2 I mentioned previously. It has similar functionality to Pro for calibration, from what I can see. But, its intent is for monitoring as part of a stereo, I believe, Digital Audio Workstation.

But, in this fast moving world of technology, it strikes me that Audyssey will have to keep working hard to stay abreast. XT/32 was a very good thing, and it is not that old. But, other contenders have popped up in the PC arena. They might have a better, even more sophisticated technical approach starting with a clean slate. Dirac Live might possibly be one such contender, and its endorsement and selection for the all-out Datasat prepro says a lot. I would want to try it even if Audyssey had a suitable PC product.

It also strikes me that Audyssey has not really emphasized improving its core EQ technology. And, Pro has languished for years as we well know. Are they resting on their laurels? They have seemed more interested in mass market consumer items for some time rather than continued improvement of the basic SQ of the EQ process. Bells and whistles - DSX, DEQ, etc. - have not moved me in any way; I do not use them or feel I need them.

So, now that they have lost Onkyo/Integra, where do they go from here? And, incidentally, how far does Onkyo get with that piece of underperforming crap they call an EQ system?
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post #5627 of 5637 Old 09-01-2014, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
But, in this fast moving world of technology, it strikes me that Audyssey will have to keep working hard to stay abreast. XT/32 was a very good thing, and it is not that old. But, other contenders have popped up in the PC arena. They might have a better, even more sophisticated technical approach starting with a clean slate. Dirac Live might possibly be one such contender, and its endorsement and selection for the all-out Datasat prepro says a lot. I would want to try it even if Audyssey had a suitable PC product.
Audyssey has a really super software product for its professional customers. It would be great if they adapted it for the home user.

Quote:
It also strikes me that Audyssey has not really emphasized improving its core EQ technology.
There is more but it has not been released for general use.

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post #5628 of 5637 Old 09-01-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
Audyssey has a really super software product for its professional customers. It would be great if they adapted it for the home user.

There is more but it has not been released for general use.
Thanks, Kal.

Jeff


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post #5629 of 5637 Old 09-05-2014, 04:09 PM
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Progress with Dirac/ExaSound

Still in my trial period with these two products. I have set up three comparative Mch classical music listening scenarios:

1. Integra 80.2, HDMI input with Audyssey XT/32 Pro calibration in the prepro, high rez Mch playback from PC - my normal setup.
2. Integra 80.2, HDMI input, with Dirac Live calibration on the PC, Integra in Direct mode.
3. ExaSound e28, USB input, same Dirac Live calibration in the PC (Dirac Live was calibrated using the Integra).

Since this is not intended to be a review, I will not sort through the technical details, why's and wherefores. But, PM me if you have questions.

Briefly, they all sound very good. But, they all sound somewhat different. Many average listeners might not claim to hear or to consider those differences significant. But, feeble-minded idiot audiophiles, like me and my first listening panel - 2 good friends - did consider those differences distinguishable. Some were deemed better than others, and likely worthy of making a system upgrade. One of my panel has decided it was a significant enough improvement to do a trial himself of Dirac Live in his PC using his Marantz 8801 as the final controller via Direct input mode over HDMI. Preliminarily, I approximate that sonically to the move from XT to XT32 in improved sonics and imaging. But, careful further listening is required for me to reach an ultimate conclusion.

It is still a work in progress. I will say that I found the Dirac Live Calibration Tool (DLCT) refreshingly easy to use compared to Pro, which is not itself terrible with a bit of experience. The only significant Pro feature I found lacking was the Midrange Compensation dip, which I do not use anyway. But, Dirac has better graphs, including impulse response, and a generally better user interface, although it does nothing about xovers, another difference in features. I have merely copied my Pro recommended xovers into JRiver Room Correction in their DSP Studio. Dirac does compute channel trims and delay. It also takes way, way less time for a 7.1 channel calibration than does Pro, including the mike sweeps - 9 point sofa is what I used - and the filter calculations.

One very cool thing is that the Dirac Audio Processor in playback (DAP) just looks like a virtual "sound card" to Windows. You can set it as the default in Windows/Sound, and a popup will allow you to listen quickly to your choice of 1 of 4 filter sets. They might be separate calibrations or alternatives created by editing the target curve, which it also supports better than Pro. All our listening so far has been with the recommended default target curve, which is generally similar to Audyssey, with a few minor exceptions.
It is also quite easy to reconnect DAP to any Windows Sound output virtually, as between the HDMI Integra and the ExaSound driver for asynchronous USB.
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post #5630 of 5637 Old 09-05-2014, 04:33 PM
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Fitz, I would like to ask questions and get some more detail, but my concern is that the discussion doesn't belong in this thread. I thought you were considering setting up a dedicated thread? I am sure others are interested as well.

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post #5631 of 5637 Old 09-06-2014, 07:13 AM
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Jerry - my intent was not to fully review the product or to promote it. It was only to illustrate an alternative to Audyssey and to Pro, indicating where it has answers to some past knocks against Pro and where it does not. I am not going to give a "blow by blow" description. That is available elsewhere. There are also several other alternatives besides Dirac Live for the PC, but I will not go into those.

My next, and likely last, post here on the subject will be only to briefly describe my final assessment and decision as to whether I am sticking with Audyssey and Pro plus the Integra or not. If there are enough interest and further questions here or via PM, I will gladly take your suggestion and start a new thread.
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post #5632 of 5637 Old 09-06-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Briefly, they all sound very good. But, they all sound somewhat different. Many average listeners might not claim to hear or to consider those differences significant. But, feeble-minded idiot audiophiles, like me and my first listening panel - 2 good friends - did consider those differences distinguishable. Some were deemed better than others, and likely worthy of making a system upgrade. One of my panel has decided it was a significant enough improvement to do a trial himself of Dirac Live in his PC using his Marantz 8801 as the final controller via Direct input mode over HDMI. Preliminarily, I approximate that sonically to the move from XT to XT32 in improved sonics and imaging. But, careful further listening is required for me to reach an ultimate conclusion.
Fitz, when you did these listening evaluations, did the listeners know which REQ they were listening to when they announced their decisions?


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post #5633 of 5637 Old 09-06-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Jerry - my intent was not to fully review the product or to promote it. It was only to illustrate an alternative to Audyssey and to Pro, indicating where it has answers to some past knocks against Pro and where it does not. I am not going to give a "blow by blow" description. That is available elsewhere. There are also several other alternatives besides Dirac Live for the PC, but I will not go into those.

My next, and likely last, post here on the subject will be only to briefly describe my final assessment and decision as to whether I am sticking with Audyssey and Pro plus the Integra or not. If there are enough interest and further questions here or via PM, I will gladly take your suggestion and start a new thread.
I am interested in your adventure. We went for a month with no posts, so a topic even tangential to Audyssey Pro seems alright with me. Anyway, I suggest that you start a new thread and have a mod move your meaty posts here on the subject to the new thread.

Jeff

Edit: AND POST A LINK HERE


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Last edited by pepar; 09-06-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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post #5634 of 5637 Old 09-07-2014, 06:08 AM
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I am also interested to read more about your findings and agree to what pepar proposes. Thanks.
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post #5635 of 5637 Old 09-07-2014, 08:44 AM
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Fitz, when you did these listening evaluations, did the listeners know which REQ they were listening to when they announced their decisions?
Keith - yes, they knew. There was no attempt at blind, much less double blind. I did however not give them a priori any of my own listening impressions, since I did not want to color theirs. Also, it takes about 5 minutes to reconnect the Integra or ExaSound to the amps. (There is a ~ $700 with xlr/DB25 cable "snakes" Whirlwind AB switchbox, but I want to try to avoid investing in that.)
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post #5636 of 5637 Old 09-07-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Keith - yes, they knew. There was no attempt at blind, much less double blind. I did however not give them a priori any of my own listening impressions, since I did not want to color theirs. Also, it takes about 5 minutes to reconnect the Integra or ExaSound to the amps. (There is a ~ $700 with xlr/DB25 cable "snakes" Whirlwind AB switchbox, but I want to try to avoid investing in that.)
Thanks Fitz. I won't comment - my views on this topic are well enough known as it is, I think


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post #5637 of 5637 Old 09-07-2014, 03:45 PM
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New Thread

Ok. By popular demand, here is a new thread to continue the discussion about my evaluation of Dirac Live and the ExaSound e28:

Audyssey XT/32 + Pro vs. Dirac Live/HTPC + ExaSound e28 vs. Prepro

Last edited by fitzcaraldo215; 09-07-2014 at 03:51 PM.
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