The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 197 - AVS Forum
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post #5881 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Record company having remastered one of them without mentioning it on the cover.
But then it wouldn't be the same!

Shall I edit my post to make it more clear that I meant two CDs that are the same?
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post #5882 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
But then it wouldn't be the same!

Shall I edit my post to make it more clear that I meant two CDs that are the same?
No, just pulling your leg a bit.

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post #5883 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 02:26 PM
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Keith, moved on and you're back already?
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post #5884 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I continue to follow developments in the HTPC world very closely, but from my perspective, it still involves a lot of system integration work. As I get older, I am looking for less complication in my audio system, not more.
Jerry - I hear you, and I had the same reluctance to get involved with it. Hey, I am only a bumbling senior citizen. Ok, I am a little tech savvy as a former CIO going back to main frame computers, but I have mostly hated tangling myself with PCs, Windows, networks, etc. Except, their potential is undeniable. As it has evolved, many issues have disappeared. One problem with the internet is that old, irrelevant to what is happening now postings never go away with a fast moving technology. So, we might think problems still exist that don't and spend hours worrying about nothing.

Today, hardware is really a non-issue. There is only one hardware question of significance: quiet PC or not? Quiet is much more esoteric and costs a whole lot more, but why anyone needs a PC in their listening room is a mystery. My PC and NAS are in the adjoining room connected by about 15 ft. of HDMI for video and USB for audio. My resulting very powerful I7-based hardware platform, built with entirely off the shelf, non-esoteric components cost little more than $1,000. It can make as much noise as it needs to in the other room.

But, you are partially right about software integration issues. Except, by careful selection I have only the following major software packages to worry about on the PC:

JRiver
Dirac Live Calibration Tool and Audio Processor
ExaSound Driver
HD Homerun Prime driver
AnyDVD HD
Synology NAS Administration

Honestly, except for JRiver, they were all a piece of cake and worked as advertised out of the box. Yes, each one took maybe a few hours to install and get working, though some were really, really easy. JRiver is huge and feature-laden, so it is always in a state of flux, sort of like Windows itself. There is a lot to learn and I am still trying to fine tune some minor issues with it. But, to me, other software tools do not measure up to it in scope or comprehensiveness. I have wasted no time fiddling with Foobar, Windows Media Player, etcetera., etc. However, I did spend a lot of time doing research on the web to decide on the right choice of tools for me. I am quite happy with my choices.

At the end of the day, I am free of prepros, their obsolescence, their resource limitations, etc. I have given up some input convenience and flexibility - I cannot play an SACD without first ripping it via PS3, although BDs and CDs are no problem. With considerable help from friends, I have nonetheless spent many, many hours ripping and tagging stuff for my hi rez Mch audio and video collections - thousands of discs. And, I have spent maybe two times what an entry level prepro plus player would cost for PC, NAS, DAC, Dirac, cable box replacement, minor network upgrades, etc.

I do not mean to sugar coat it too much, because there were some frustrating issues, none life or death, that I spent days or weeks to resolve. Usually, they were simple once I found the right information and guidance. There is a robust and growing community of HTPC users out there on the web. I feel some sense of accomplishment in having overcome some bumps in the road.

But, would I go back? No way. The sound is outstandingly better, not close. Even the video quality is better. And, I can sit with my iPad and make my selections and enjoy from a huge library, watch TV, pop in a Netflix rental or stream from Netflix. It is really very cool.

What does this have to do with Audyssey and the Pro kit? Nothing, really. Except, I think getting to better sound sooner means turning to the power of the PC vs. the more resource limited, built to a cost, marketing-determined feature set of a prepro or AVR. I feel that Audyssey has become a Chevvy catering to the mass market makers only. Meanwhile, there are Ferraris and Porsches out there in the HTPC world. It would be interesting, and I have not heard it. But, I wonder just how far my sound is from a $20k Datasat. I am guessing not that far.
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post #5885 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 05:56 PM
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Good input, Fitz, and I continue to follow your other thread describing your progress and experiences. I'm sure I'll take the plunge at some time, but for now I am enjoying being an interested observer on the sidelines. I think ultimately the thing that will convince me to make a change is the advances in other room correction technologies like Dirac. IMO, Audyssey seems to be in a holding pattern, without making any advances that push the envelope. A number of us are waiting for Stuart to make the Trinnov plunge so we have a better understanding of that technology as well as what we are learning about Dirac.
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post #5886 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Good input, Fitz, and I continue to follow your other thread describing your progress and experiences. I'm sure I'll take the plunge at some time, but for now I am enjoying being an interested observer on the sidelines. I think ultimately the thing that will convince me to make a change is the advances in other room correction technologies like Dirac. IMO, Audyssey seems to be in a holding pattern, without making any advances that push the envelope. A number of us are waiting for Stuart to make the Trinnov plunge so we have a better understanding of that technology as well as what we are learning about Dirac.
Geez, I didn't know I had an audience . You do know, there's a small number of folks that have the pro Trinnov Optimizer MC or Magnitude units, but not much (if any) charting or comparison to Audyssey. That's what I hope to do this winter and spring.

What I'm looking forward to doing once I have the full SOTA version of the Optimizer in the Trinnov Altitude is examine the pre/post changes in FR, phase, and delay due to the flexible amplitude and energy resolution control, and the ability to tweak IIR and FIR filter lengths, along with testing out individual channel crossovers and HP/LP filters in the room correction.

And with 29 pre-sets, we'll experiment with customized target curves to match my tastes and tweak to specific types of recordings (or specific speaker configurations or even pre-sets dedicated to Atmos vs. Auro - although the latter two will probably not be serious until we move and build a dedicated HT room next year). At the very least, I imagine I'll have separate music and cinema pre-sets. That's where the fun truly begins.

Then there's Trinnov Remapping.....which is the real claim to fame when you don't have symmetric setups.

Just to remind everyone - I actually "do" have Trinnov in the Sherwood R-972, alongside my Denon 4311 running XT32/Audyssey Pro. It's just a lot more automated than the pro Trinnov components and the Altitude, and only measures a single measurement position, vs. being able to use multiple positions and weight them to taste.

All of this is OT here, mostly, but stay tuned...

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

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Last edited by sdrucker; 11-11-2014 at 08:04 PM.
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post #5887 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Geez, I didn't know I had an audience . You do know, there's a small number of folks that have the pro Trinnov Optimizer MC or Magnitude units, but not much (if any) charting or comparison to Audyssey. That's what I hope to do this winter and spring.

What I'm looking forward to doing once I have the full SOTA version of the Optimizer in the Trinnov Altitude is examine the pre/post changes in FR, phase, and delay due to the flexible amplitude and energy resolution control, and the ability to tweak IIR and FIR filter lengths, along with testing out individual channel crossovers and HP/LP filters in the room correction.

And with 29 pre-sets, we'll experiment with customized target curves to match my tastes and tweak to specific types of recordings (or specific speaker configurations or even pre-sets dedicated to Atmos vs. Auro - although the latter two will probably not be serious until we move and build a dedicated HT room next year). At the very least, I imagine I'll have separate music and cinema pre-sets. That's where the fun truly begins.

Then there's Trinnov Remapping.....which is the real claim to fame when you don't have symmetric setups.

Just to remind everyone - I actually "do" have Trinnov in the Sherwood R-972, alongside my Denon 4311 running XT32/Audyssey Pro. It's just a lot more automated than the pro Trinnov components and the Altitude, and only measures a single measurement position, vs. being able to use multiple positions and weight them to taste.

All of this is OT here, mostly, but stay tuned...
Oh, God, it's like getting kicked in the nut-sack...
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post #5888 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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Oh, God, it's like getting kicked in the nut-sack...

Hahaha....I wasn't even going to bring all that up here until you started it . But you can see why the Target Curve Editor is (or was) a useful if limited feature with some appeal to me.

Last edited by sdrucker; 11-11-2014 at 09:06 PM.
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post #5889 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 09:32 PM
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Oh, God, it's like getting kicked in the nut-sack...
Only if Sanjay sees it.
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post #5890 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 09:40 PM
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Jist got the pro kit.
Mainly to turn off the midrange compensation. As it sounds better in my system.
I noticed there is no FLAT curve target, onky rollout 1 and 2.
If using the curve editor, how does one Get the line to be perfect flat?
I heard you can edit the graph file, how and with what program does one do this?

Maybe if someone has a custom graph already made, they can send me a copy?
Thanks
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post #5891 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Jist got the pro kit.
Mainly to turn off the midrange compensation. As it sounds better in my system.
I noticed there is no FLAT curve target, onky rollout 1 and 2.
If using the curve editor, how does one Get the line to be perfect flat?
I heard you can edit the graph file, how and with what program does one do this?

Maybe if someone has a custom graph already made, they can send me a copy?
Thanks
If you want to edit the target curve, go to the "Target Sound Options" screen and click on the "Design" button. This opens the Target Curve Editor, which gives you some control over the shape of the target curve for each of the output channels. Why would you want a flat curve?
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post #5892 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If you want to edit the target curve, go to the "Target Sound Options" screen and click on the "Design" button. This opens the Target Curve Editor, which gives you some control over the shape of the target curve for each of the output channels. Why would you want a flat curve?
Thanks.
I tried this suggestion, but need more adjustments. As it seems to only allow 3db boost at given points.

As for why flat, I like the crisp lively sound. When I used the xt32 with stock denon mic, and selected flat, it seemed brighter then when using the pro kit.

Thanks again☺
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post #5893 of 5908 Old 11-11-2014, 09:58 PM
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Well, the Target Curve Editor is all you have to work with. And when you save the calibration results back to the AVR, the Audyssey Flat selection should work the same way that it works for a standard calibration. At least it does on my system.
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post #5894 of 5908 Old 11-12-2014, 09:51 AM
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post #5895 of 5908 Old 11-12-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Thanks.
I tried this suggestion, but need more adjustments. As it seems to only allow 3db boost at given points.

As for why flat, I like the crisp lively sound. When I used the xt32 with stock denon mic, and selected flat, it seemed brighter then when using the pro kit.

Thanks again☺
Measuring flat does not sound flat. It's complicated, but true. Audyssey Flat (or Music) is supposed to sound flat while the standard Audyssey curve rolls off to make MOVIES sound like they did in the mixing studio.

The Pro mic is individually calibrated and, most likely, more accurate than the stock mic. +/-3dB is the max deviation from the base curve. Plus, there is a defined required spacing between the "handles."

Jeff
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post #5896 of 5908 Old 11-12-2014, 03:19 PM
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Measuring flat does not sound flat. It's complicated, but true. Audyssey Flat (or Music) is supposed to sound flat while the standard Audyssey curve rolls off to make MOVIES sound like they did in the mixing studio.

Jeff

That goes both ways: sounding flat doesn't necessarily measure flat, i.e. the Harman "perceptibly flat" target curve, with the slight upward tilt into the upper bass to about 150 Hz, and a gentle tilt downward from that point. I went to Floyd Toole's seminars at CEDIA and that was one of the key points he makes in his presentation. It's subtle but you can fit the same with the TCE up to a point, given the +/- 3 db and 1/3 octave limitations.

Of course, in our Audyssey world that's "preference" (not that there's anything wrong with that)...which IMO is another reason why Pro still has some value to those that want an Audyssey solution.

Stuart

 

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post #5897 of 5908 Old 11-12-2014, 03:34 PM
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Stuart, I think all of the "thought leaders" have their own spin on what is perceived flat .. from their proprietary research. We should all keep in mind, though, that is is an average. Partly, at least, this is where preference comes in. My 64-yr old ears "prefer" a slightly lifted upper end of the curve as well as a boost below 200Hz. Is this preference only, or my compensation for my hearing? No one will ever know ... but I like it!

Jeff
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post #5898 of 5908 Old 11-12-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Stuart, I think all of the "thought leaders" have their own spin on what is perceived flat .. from their proprietary research. We should all keep in mind, though, that is is an average. Partly, at least, this is where preference comes in. My 64-yr old ears "prefer" a slightly lifted upper end of the curve as well as a boost below 200Hz. Is this preference only, or my compensation for my hearing? No one will ever know ... but I like it!

Jeff
I agree with you there---averages are just that, which is why I like Pro's TCE, Dirac and Trinnov for being able to tweak to what our ears prefer, among serious semi-automated REQ technology. MCACC and YPAO are non-starters due to poorer EQ of the subs, and Jerry's research earlier this year found that Anthem's ARC had poor correction resolution.


IIRC it was either you or SOM (who's apparently MIA from us) that had illustrated how they used the TCE to add "air" at the upper end, for specific horn instruments you liked a few years back. That actually pulled into my reasoning for moving into Pro in the first place, and indirectly where I'm going now.

I think the Toole research was that a majority of respondents preferred perceptibly flat over literally flat. But even stock Audyssey Reference isn't literally flat, thanks to rolloff and MRC. We're fortunate that we can aim for a different target curve, to a degree, with Pro, as well as the cruder "raise the AVR sub trim" approach.

There's some strange "preference" target curves out there, like the one I saw on an MiniDSP thread with a hump at about 50 Hz, but a gradual falloff below that.

Stuart

 

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Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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post #5899 of 5908 Old 11-13-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Measuring flat does not sound flat. It's complicated, but true. Audyssey Flat (or Music) is supposed to sound flat while the standard Audyssey curve rolls off to make MOVIES sound like they did in the mixing studio.

The Pro mic is individually calibrated and, most likely, more accurate than the stock mic. +/-3dB is the max deviation from the base curve. Plus, there is a defined required spacing between the "handles."

Jeff
Jeff - I do not think that is accurate. I think the rolloff necessary for perceived flatness in the far field in the room is a function of the room, not movies or music or anything else. Everything I have read about perceived flatness for music, going back decades even to Gordon Holt if not before, indicates a desireable rolloff in the measured in-room frequency response beginning around 1,000 Hz (or somewhat higher) for perceptual flatness. I have seen this confirmed many, many times by other knowledgable music-oriented commentators. Apparently, Toole agrees too. Minor quibbles about small differences in the target curve parameters do not change the essential rolled off shape: a little up to 10-15k and more above that. As I have said before, measures flat, whether for music or for movies, is only valid in the near field or in an over damped room with little reflected energy.

From what I have seen, Chris and Audyssey and their licensees also have this confused. Audyssey is a bunch of movie sound oriented guys by their own admission. Chris has constantly punted or guessed on answers about a music curve claiming he just does not know about music. I think he has invented yet another mythology in his guesswork. So, he has added to the confusion, as have licensees with their "Music" target curve.

The movie x-curve also causes confusion. I also believe that the movie X-curve rolloff in theaters is applied by EQ specific to the theater, not permanently burned into the soundtrack, which I believe is assumed flat as distributed. I could be wrong about that. But, I also think there is actually a family of x-curves, the correct one being a function of theater volume and possibly other factors for that particular theater. There is no way to take specific theater volume or other local factors into account on the globally distributed soundtrack itself.

More specifically, there is no x-curve burned into the audio of BDs and DVDs for HT. How could there be? The Audyssey rolloff and the x-curve rolloff both go in the same direction, multiplying rather than compensating for the effect. Yes, in the mixing studio, they should have applied EQ rolloff only on playback which is specific to that particular studio if they were listening far field, although I doubt that they do listen far field.

I have no idea why anyone would expect music mixing studios to behave any differently. It makes no sense. And, by the way, in my very limited exposure to music mixing studios, they listen near field, anyway. But, as soon as you listen to the same track far field, it will sound perceptually brighter, necessitating the rolloff to make it sound the same as it did near field.

Bottom line, in the far field in your room for both movies and music, use the standard target curve. In Pro, choose between options 1-3 depending on your specific HT internal volume. FWIW, if you trust my ears in conjunction with my live classical concert experience, I can confirm that sounds truer to live musical sound than measures flat does. It also sounds best to me on movies. It is no contest.

Also, FWIW, again, Dirac has one standard target curve which is conceptually close to Audyssey's standard, minus MRC, independently confirming the same general concept for all source material.
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post #5900 of 5908 Old 11-14-2014, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Jeff - I do not think that is accurate. I think the rolloff necessary for perceived flatness in the far field in the room is a function of the room, not movies or music or anything else. Everything I have read about perceived flatness for music, going back decades even to Gordon Holt if not before, indicates a desireable rolloff in the measured in-room frequency response beginning around 1,000 Hz (or somewhat higher) for perceptual flatness. I have seen this confirmed many, many times by other knowledgable music-oriented commentators. Apparently, Toole agrees too. Minor quibbles about small differences in the target curve parameters do not change the essential rolled off shape: a little up to 10-15k and more above that. As I have said before, measures flat, whether for music or for movies, is only valid in the near field or in an over damped room with little reflected energy.
Sure, the rolloff necessary for any given room is determined by the room. But, I'd guess for simplification purposes, Audyssey has one Audyssey Curve that is the target. Chris has said that "most" listeners are not nearfield, so generally this is the most correct curve. (Several caveats there ...) He has also said that for anyone who is listening nearfield, less rolloff would be needed. My MLP is on the edge of the critical distance, so perhaps that is why my ears like less rolloff. Or maybe it is my 64-yr old ears.

In any case, just EQ'ing to any given target for most rooms likely will not produce the correct listening experience for ... most rooms. I guess the target curve should be dynamically adjusted depending on room volume, listening position(s), treatments, etc. But I doubt that could be integrated into the product Audyssey created for mass marketed gear.

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From what I have seen, Chris and Audyssey and their licensees also have this confused. Audyssey is a bunch of movie sound oriented guys by their own admission. Chris has constantly punted or guessed on answers about a music curve claiming he just does not know about music. I think he has invented yet another mythology in his guesswork. So, he has added to the confusion, as have licensees with their "Music" target curve.
Well, that is an odd characterization, but maybe it is the music industry's lack of a standard that is at the root of any confusion/punting/guessing?

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The movie x-curve also causes confusion. I also believe that the movie X-curve rolloff in theaters is applied by EQ specific to the theater, not permanently burned into the soundtrack, which I believe is assumed flat as distributed. I could be wrong about that. But, I also think there is actually a family of x-curves, the correct one being a function of theater volume and possibly other factors for that particular theater. There is no way to take specific theater volume or other local factors into account on the globally distributed soundtrack itself.

More specifically, there is no x-curve burned into the audio of BDs and DVDs for HT. How could there be? The Audyssey rolloff and the x-curve rolloff both go in the same direction, multiplying rather than compensating for the effect. Yes, in the mixing studio, they should have applied EQ rolloff only on playback which is specific to that particular studio if they were listening far field, although I doubt that they do listen far field.
Indeed. The X-Curve was developed to translate what the movie team heard on the mixing stage to the theater. Or was it the opposite? The Audyssey Curve and its ilk were created to translate the commercial cinema experience into the home. Lots of room for interpretation, averaging, generalization, friend of a friend of a friend, second hand news, etc, which results in *something* that *works* for *most* home listening. Maybe.

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I have no idea why anyone would expect music mixing studios to behave any differently. It makes no sense.
Movie mixing facilities are calibrated to a standard. Non-movie studios are not.

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And, by the way, in my very limited exposure to music mixing studios, they listen near field, anyway. But, as soon as you listen to the same track far field, it will sound perceptually brighter, necessitating the rolloff to make it sound the same as it did near field.
Yes, of course. Hence Chris' statements regarding nearfield listening needing less rolloff (than listening past the critical distance) to be perceptionally flat.

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Also, FWIW, again, Dirac has one standard target curve which is conceptually close to Audyssey's standard, minus MRC, independently confirming the same general concept for all source material.
Personally, I have one target curve that I use for all listening. But then I do not have a simple way to engage/disengage the Audyssey Curve. So I don't.

I didn't intend for my reply to be point-by-point as that is typically the style of those who are arguing. I think we are both saying the same thing.

Jeff

Last edited by pepar; 11-14-2014 at 09:35 AM.
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post #5901 of 5908 Old 11-14-2014, 02:35 PM
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Thanks.
I tried this suggestion, but need more adjustments. As it seems to only allow 3db boost at given points.
that´s reasonable, as you both burn a lot of effect and lift the noise/distortions at that point when boosting. A notch should never even be tried to boost. Adjustments should really only be done on peaks, although I do have one dip I've cheated against that rule myself too.

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post #5902 of 5908 Old 11-19-2014, 08:48 PM
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I've been using Pro a long time (most recently on the Integra 80.2) and recently got the Marantz 7702. I am having a heck of a time getting reasonable results running Pro.

The sub(s) correction is fine.

First issue: I set up my system in the 7702 and describe a 7.2 system (no heights, wides, or ceilings). Audyssey Pro shows on the list where you get to select which speakers you have that I have front heights - and they are greyed out so I can not turn them off. Of course when it runs Audyssey, I get an error that I don't have front heights - surprise?? Anyone else seen this?

Second issue. After the first pass, Audyssey recommends crossovers and always recommends 40hz for the front (it does the same with my Integra) which I have always changed to 80hz. When I do this on the 7702, it totally screws up my front channels correction. If I look at the response with and without Audyssey, it pushes down the area between 65 and 130 by about 20db so the area between the mains and subs is way off. No amount of sub distance tweaking has any effect.

So I re-ran it, used the recommend 40hz and let it compute the filters. Then I raised the crossover to 80hz and it looked more reasonable. I have never had to do this before.

Tomorrow I will try to run it out of the system and not use pro and see what kind of results I get.

I get a sense that this product (Pro for the 7702) is not quite ready for prime time.

Anyone else having any issues with this product on the 7702????

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post #5903 of 5908 Old 11-19-2014, 09:29 PM
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I can think of no reason why Pro would not behave on your new AVR exactly like it did on your previous AVR. I use Pro on a 4520 and a 4311, and the behavior (and results) are similar. Maybe time to call Audyssey?

Other than the usual recommendation of doing a microprocessor reset, of course...
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I can think of no reason why Pro would not behave on your new AVR exactly like it did on your previous AVR. I use Pro on a 4520 and a 4311, and the behavior (and results) are similar. Maybe time to call Audyssey?

Other than the usual recommendation of doing a microprocessor reset, of course...
One note: Pro for the new Denons and Marantzs is not backward compatable so there is clearly something different!

And I did send a note to Ask Audyssey but still have no ressponse.

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I've been using Pro a long time (most recently on the Integra 80.2) and recently got the Marantz 7702. I am having a heck of a time getting reasonable results running Pro.
Chuck, latest firmware on Marantz? Tried hard reboot?

Jeff
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Chuck, latest firmware on Marantz? Tried hard reboot?

Jeff
Jeff:

I did a firmware download a few days ago but have not done a hard reboot as I have no clue how but I'm sure it is the manual somewhere. Sure hope that fixes things.

Are you now using the 7702 ??? Added Atmos speakers?

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Chuck,

I am not familiar with the Marantz firmware update process, but a hard reboot is part of Onk/Integra. And it is also the next recommended step, generally speaking, for issues such as these. Try the 7702 thread.

7702? Atmos? New roof ....

Jeff
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Hope to pick the brains of audyssey pro veterans here. I have the NAD M15HD and M25 combo with Dynaudio Focus fronts, Contour SC centre and x2 JL Audio Fathoms 113. I have the opportunity of picking up a Parasound a31 which got me thinking should I get an AVR like the Marantz SR7008 with Audyssey XT32 to take advantage of the extra filters and dual sub? I have a 5.1 setup in my room and don't envisage going any further with the number of speakers or with ATMOS.

What do you guys think of that change? I am mainly a HT man - it's possible that two channel performance of the AVR vs the dedicated NAD prepro could suffer but I am thinking it could be a big improvement overall in HT performance. I understand the factor of switching brands too could have an effect on the outcome.
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