The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 5614 Old 07-31-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Sure. Clearly you have strong beliefs about this and since this is specific thread I'll close with these:
Hi,

It's not just me, most experts in the field appreciate the need for spectral balance. Even Dr. Olive who is promoting a room correction approach with a tilted response, still understands the benefit of using speakers that are spectrally balanced when listening at reference.

Quote:
1) Few regularly listens at reference level so setting that as a contraint isn't helpful for most of us. But let's say it's 10% of the time. Then 90% of the time flat response is wrong.
2) Reference levels (and EQ) for non-standard mixes are generally unknown in any case.
Needless to say folks can setup their rooms as they see fit. I prefer an approach that starts with a room that is equalized "flat" at reference level, with a high frequency rolloff appropriate to my room. Then when listening below reference I let Audyssey Dynamic EQ dynamically tilt the response in real-time to restore perceived spectral balance. In other word the tilt is not a predetermined fixed slope, but rather it varies moment to moment based on how the actual in-room level of the content changes.

For situations where the reference level is unknown, Audyssey permits us to experiment with the Reference Level Offset values as an approximation to get us in the ballpark. Other more precise approaches can also be used even if an AVR does not have the Offset feature. One can experiment with the Input Level settings (which have finer adjustments), up or down, to readjust the amount that Dynamic EQ tilts the "flat" response initially derived by MultEQ. Dr. Olive's experiments demonstrate that someone with a trained ear can hear spectral balance even if the recording's reference level is unknown. (I don't pretend to be one of those folks. ) So these folks could adjust the Input levels to permit Dynamic EQ to accurately restore spectral balance.

Larry
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post #242 of 5614 Old 08-01-2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Sure. Clearly you have strong beliefs about this and since this is specific thread I'll close with these:

1) Few regularly listens at reference level so setting that as a contraint isn't helpful for most of us. But let's say it's 10% of the time. Then 90% of the time flat response is wrong.
2) Reference levels (and EQ) for non-standard mixes are generally unknown in any case.

1) That's what Dynamic EQ is all about.
2) Yes, of course. But so what? It still does not justify any other response permanently EQ'd into your system other that flat.

Look, you are perfectly entitled to turn your own bass up or down as much as you want. But, I honestly do not think you will find any theoretical justification for it. There is reference and there is preference.
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post #243 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 01:36 PM
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Hi,

Just read Kal's follow-up reveiw of the Integra DHC-80.2 in the September issue of Stereophile magazine. Very informative. Apparently the problem with the Audyssey Pro calibration on the Integra DHC-80.2 and the Onkyo PR-SC5508 preamplifiers was due to the firmware failing to set a flag to switch from the consumer to the professional microphone calibration files.

Larry
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post #244 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 01:51 PM
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Yes, that was the problem. The Pro calibration file was either not transferred from MultEQ Pro to the unit or was and the consumer calibration file was used any way.
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post #245 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 02:52 PM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Yes, that was the problem. The Pro calibration file was either not transferred from MultEQ Pro to the unit or was and the consumer calibration file was used any way.

Simply pathetic on behalf of Onkyo/Integra, but also Audyssey...

Hugo

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post #246 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 03:05 PM
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... and thanks again Kal!

Hugo

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post #247 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,



Simply pathetic on behalf of Onkyo/Integra, but also Audyssey...

Hugo

There was a new Integra 80.2 firmware update in May. Perhaps Kal did not have it installed.
Carl

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post #248 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Simply pathetic on behalf of Onkyo/Integra, but also Audyssey...

Why on behalf of Audyssey? I thought I made it clear that Audyssey was not given the opportunity to sign off on the firmware version with the error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post

There was a new Integra 80.2 firmware update in May. Perhaps Kal did not have it installed.

Take note of the latency involved in the publication process. The May update came more than a month after I notified Onkyo and Audyssey of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

... and thanks again Kal!

You are welcome!

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post #249 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Yes, that was the problem. The Pro calibration file was either not transferred from MultEQ Pro to the unit or was and the consumer calibration file was used any way.

ouch

I wonder how many people paid for pro calibrations that are ...well... *wrong*?

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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post #250 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

... and thanks again Kal!

Hugo

+1

Have you tested Audyssey Pro on a Denon 4311 by chance?

doug.
Denon 4311 owner (calibrated with Audyssey Pro )

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post #251 of 5614 Old 08-04-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

ouch

I wonder how many people paid for pro calibrations that are ...well... *wrong*?

I have been wondering the same thing.

Kal Rubinson

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post #252 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 02:17 AM
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Hi Doug,

Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

+1

Have you tested Audyssey Pro on a Denon 4311 by chance?

doug.
Denon 4311 owner (calibrated with Audyssey Pro )

Yes, see my comments here.

Anyway, this matter is closed for me as I'm going to switch to the new Onkyo 5509 as soon as it arrives, hopefully without any identical (Pro) problem(s).

Hugo

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post #253 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 11:31 AM
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How many people said their system sound even that much more fabulous after their Pro calibration when it used the consumer file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

ouch

I wonder how many people paid for pro calibrations that are ...well... *wrong*?

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post #254 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

How many people said their system sound even that much more fabulous after their Pro calibration when it used the consumer file.

I have been wondering about that, too.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #255 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I have been wondering about that, too.

If I remember correctly there were a number complaints of it sounding thin.
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post #256 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 03:11 PM
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I would hope that installer's who did a Pro calibration pre-firmware fix would go back and perform a new calibration for free to those customers. Some of these installers were charging $500 or more. Maybe by doing the right thing they will generate more good will and sales, we can only hope.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #257 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi Doug,



Yes, see my comments here.

Anyway, this matter is closed for me as I'm going to switch to the new Onkyo 5509 as soon as it arrives, hopefully without any identical (Pro) problem(s).

Hugo

I remember reading that. Thus my interest in if Kal has tested a 4311 with Audyssey Pro.

I have had several problems with my 4311/XT32/SubEQ HT/Audyssey Pro.

Audyssey tech support hasn't been of much help. I do realize it is hard to troubleshoot without being the one performing the calibration, etc.

In the end, I got sick of trying to compensate for all of Audyssey's inadequacies. I now use a Behringer DCX2496 to time-align and level-match all my subs then run Audyssey Pro on top of it (using just the SW1 output on the 4311). This has worked out well for me. I do not use any of the DCX2496's features except to time-align and level-match. I am not a fan of double EQing.

BTW, in mono mode the DCX2496 can time-align, level-match, etc up to 6 subs!!!

I have taken measurements and the DCX2496 doesn't add anything to (or degrade) the signal as far as I could measure.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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post #258 of 5614 Old 08-05-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

How many people said their system sound even that much more fabulous after their Pro calibration when it used the consumer file.

I remember Jeff (pepar) stating that Audyssey Pro didn't add much, if anything, to his system. I found that really odd.

Jeff (if you're listening ), have you updated your firmware and re-ran Audyssey Pro yet? Did it make any *audible* differences? How about measurable differences?

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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post #259 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 11:04 AM
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Interesting article by Kal. Is it safe to a assume that the Denon 4311 is unaffected by the firmware bug?
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post #260 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Interesting article by Kal. Is it safe to a assume that the Denon 4311 is unaffected by the firmware bug?
Since the goof was committed by Onkyo/Integra, not Audyssey, yes, it is safe to assume your Denon would be unaffected.
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post #261 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post
The height channel has never interested me but I wonder if anyone has tried it here and it it's worth consideration. I know Audyssey recommends wide channels first, then heights.
I don't have room to position wides in anywhere near the recommended spot, but I do have height speakers. I love them. They give you what has been described, accurately, as a 'huge wall of sound'. They make your room sound bigger and expand the front soundstage enormously. On some movies, you will get very good 'height' impressions from them - such as falling rain or helicopters and so on, but the main benefit, IMO, is this vast expansion of the soundstage. I only have a small HT so anything that makes it seem bigger is good for me - YMMV of course. I find that I like both Audyssey DSX and Dolby PLIIz, for different reasons. Both are worthwhile additions IMO. FilmMixer, over on the regular Audyssey thread, whose view I respect totally, says that they do not accurately represent what the mixer is trying to achieve, and of course he is correct. But if it sounds better, does that matter? Listening at below reference doesn't represent what the mixer intended either. Or using rear surrounds on 5.1 material, but if we prefer the sound, so what? It is of course preference versus reference but I can say that, from my own experience, I would not now be without my height speakers. They have made that much of a difference to my enjoyment of my system. If you have, or can borrow, a spare pair of reasonably well matched speakers (to your mains) I would recommend you try them on a temporary basis to decide for yourself.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #262 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 02:13 PM
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Does anyone know which firmware you need to fix this audyssey pro problem? I had 1.05 when I ran Pro. Then I just updated over the net and now it says 1.06. I then tried the usb method with "1.07" but it said I already have the latest firmware.

What precisely was the problem with audyssey pro. Was the Integra using the wrong mic file?
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post #263 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Does anyone know which firmware you need to fix this audyssey pro problem? I had 1.05 when I ran Pro. Then I just updated over the net and now it says 1.06. I then tried the usb method with "1.07" but it said I already have the latest firmware.

What precisely was the problem with audyssey pro. Was the Integra using the wrong mic file?

That appears to be the correct firmware.
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post #264 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I remember Jeff (pepar) stating that Audyssey Pro didn't add much, if anything, to his system. I found that really odd.

Jeff (if you're listening ), have you updated your firmware and re-ran Audyssey Pro yet? Did it make any *audible* differences? How about measurable differences?

I could hear "through" uncorrected system and immediately knew the 5508 had considerably better sound quality than the 885. Adding consumer XT 32 made a huge difference in the sound as I did not need to do the "work" required to "remove" the room.

When I did the Pro calibration, I thought some things like timbre match improved but overall it did not pop. After the fact looking at what the wrong file was doing to the equalization, I now more understand what I was hearing.

I think it really took someone like Kal, who is essentially a full time professional listener, to detect something was wrong. I certainly did not know that there was a problem.

With so much time elapsing between all these calibrations and recalibrations, I can't say anything more than my system sounds incredible now and is far more enjoyable for both movies and music. And hi res multichannel, for which I manually swap to five identical monopoles, is absolutely stunning.

Jeff
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post #265 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:41 PM
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Does anyone have and use the audyssey sub EQ, with 2 subs?

I am on my second unit now, 1st I thought was faulty, but my 2nd replacement is doing same issue.

Here is problem.

I choose the 1 in and 2 out mode.

It goes thru it's testing and all seems good. Each sub gets it volume spl set and EQ both together as the 1 in and 2 out should be.

Now, when actually using the sub EQ, only sub A output is working. Sub B is dead.

If I take the input off input A and put onto input B , sub B now works.

So looks like the sub EQ is NOT using the 1 in and 2 out mode. It's using the 2 in 2 out mode.

Is anyone else having this issue? I'm using the newest 3.4 firmware.

Audyssey tech said to use a y-cord for inputs ( so sub input goes to both A and B inputs), and choose 1 in and 2 out mode.

This sounds weird to me as it should work with 1 input.

Anyway hope someone can help.
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post #266 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:50 PM
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I don't have one anymore as I just sold it about a week ago to guy here on AVS.

I probably ran a couple dozen calibrations and never experienced this.

Couple of questions.

1) Are you using Sub Input A not B?
2) Are you going through the step where it calibrates the satellite channel? If so skip this part by not connecting up the satellite. It will complain about it after the first set of boinks but it will allow you to continue nonetheless.

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post #267 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:53 PM
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You might also try a 2 in 2 out calibration (using a y-cord), save the results to flash, then try performing the calibration again (1 in 2 out). Just some random thoughts.

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post #268 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

You might also try a 2 in 2 out calibration (using a y-cord), save the results to flash, then try performing the calibration again (1 in 2 out). Just some random thoughts.

Good idea, I will try that and see what happens.
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post #269 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I don't have one anymore as I just sold it about a week ago to guy here on AVS.

I probably ran a couple dozen calibrations and never experienced this.

Couple of questions.

1) Are you using Sub Input A not B?
2) Are you going through the step where it calibrates the satellite channel? If so skip this part by not connecting up the satellite. It will complain about it after the first set of boinks but it will allow you to continue nonetheless.

I am using SUB A input. I did use the satellite channel.

Is there a reason why you think skipping this step is important? Just curious.

Thanks much.

Also, what software version were you using with mic?

Maybe 3.4x has a bug?
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post #270 of 5614 Old 08-06-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

Is there a reason why you think skipping this step is important? Just curious.

Because it's a huge waste of time.

Quote:


Also, what software version were you using with mic?

Maybe 3.4x has a bug?

If memory serves me correctly I used 3.2, 3.3, and 3.4 with the SubEQ. None of them gave me any grief.

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