The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread (FAQ in post #1) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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For the Audyssey Pro FAQ click here.

 

 

The only thread I could find on this topic on AVS is defunct so I thought I'd try starting a new one. We shouldn't have to go to HTShack for this discussion, should we? There seems to be some renewed interest in Pro calibrations lately. So let's see if it flies.

I'm new to the game, and have only run Pro a few times on my XT32 equipped A100. I only ran 8 positions as the instructions recommend 8-10 for average-sized rooms as a good start. Can add more later. So far I'm very impressed with XT32 as it really kicked things up a notch from XT in my AVR4310 without Pro. With Pro so far I haven't tweaked any curves or played with midrange comp. I overrode the suggestions and opted for 80 Hz xovers. So far, my impression is that Pro adds further SQ improvements, smoothness, integration and polish.


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post #2 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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This Helpful links and such post has been superceded by the Pro FAQ:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1/3030#post_22429521

 

Please feel free to comment and make suggestions by posting in the thread.

 

For a list of Audyssey Pro capable products consult the FAQ as the Audyssey website is being revised and may not continue to have the info.


For a description of Pro and helpful links go here. To purchase a kit, you are encouraged to use the "Find an Installer" search tool there. If you are not having any success, I suggest you contact Luke @ Audyssey directly as he may sell one directly to you.

Here is a link to a reliable online site that sells the kit and provides a description of the contents. The site often lists the kit as "OOS" though I've heard they can usually drop-ship from Audyssey if you contact them.

The license for your unit is obtained directly from Audyssey CS when you register your kit.

Here are some of the advantages to using Pro.

Although many of the folks with a Pro kit have and recommend an independant measuring system such as XTZ, OmniMic, etc, here are some comments on using Pro to measure your system. Also see item #3 of this post and this post on using Pro to optimize sub(s) placement. Pro measuring is reviewed here.

More Questions? Please feel free post here on this thread- if no answer is forthcoming contact Luke, the Pro kit expert:
"Please advise other AVS forum readers to email techsupport@audyssey.com when they have a question.
Regards,
Luke-Audyssey Laboratories Installer Support"

Two or more subs? ALERT!!  Known issues with Pro FW that you need to know:

by AustinJerry, see here.

Also inquire about tweaking distances to further smooth bass response if you have measuring equipment and are so inclined, there's a lot of expertise on this thread. 

 

More tips on running Pro from other owners:

pepar:  Instructions per manufacturer are displayed in Pro page by page. 

 

kbarnes: The mic calibration file is on your CD along with the Pro s/w. Install the s/w from the disc and it will put everything in its proper place including the cal file. Then go to the Audyssey installer website, create an account and then download the latest version of the s/w. Install that over the version off the CD. That's all you need to do on the PC side.

Then go back to the Audyssey installer website, log in and buy a licence for your unit. You will find your specific AVR/AVP in the list - make sure you buy the licence for the unit you own! It will cost you $150. This is a one-time fee and licences your unit for ever. You will then see that a 'licence key' has been generated. These last for one month and are free to regenerate if the current one expires and you need to run Pro again (after the month is up). You can regenerate a key at any time. The Pro s/w will ask you for the key before you can proceed to the calibration so make sure you have copied it to the PC you use for the calibration.


AustinJerry- After you have taken all the measurements you want to take, and you are ready to click the "Next" arrow to start the calculations, make sure you click on the "Save measurements" button. This preserves the measurements file, and will allow you to re-load the file at a later date in order to tweak crossover selections, run the curve editor, etc. without having to re-do the measurements.
- After saving the measurement file, click Next to run the calculations. This takes quite a while, and may be slower on you older laptop.
- After the calculations have completed, you will be presented with the crossover selection screen. Because there has been so much discussion about the Pro crossover recommendations, I suggest that you jot down the recommendations for each speaker, in the recommended order, before you proceed. It's nice to be able to refer to these notes after the calibration has completed.
- After you have selected the crossovers and clicked Next, Pro will finalize the filters and then allow you to download the filters to the AVR. This step takes a few minutes as well.
- After the filter download has completed, make sure you click on "View Results". This brings up the Pro Certificate in a browser window. Make sure you save the certificate by clicking File, Save As in the browser. You will want to share the certificate with us on this thread.

And succinctly restated by AustinJerry:

There are two critical "save" steps you should get in the habit of doing each time you run a calibration. The first one is at the end of the measurements section, immediately before you click "next" to run the filter calculations. You should click on the "Save Measurements" button, which creates a file on your local hard drive in case you need to tweak the calibration results in the future. The second save step is saving the certificate...Uploading the certificate is an optional step, really meant for professional installers. After you have completed the step in the Pro calibration that transfers the filters to the AVR, there is a button on the web page called "View Certificate". When you click on the button, the certificate is displayed in a browser window, from which you can save the certificate to your local hard drive, should you need to view it at a future time

Typical Pro Instructions for Denon:  http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/62331

Onkyo 5509? for hookup info  see this post


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post #3 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 09:55 AM
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OK, I am in. I have a kit on order.
My HT is temporary (In my bedroom) until I am able to rebuild the room that I had to remove due to water damage.
My display is a Samsung 71" DLP. My processor is an Integra DHC-80.2. My surround speakers are four Polk Monitor 10b's hanging from the ceiling powered by two Sumo amps. My LCR's are powered Seaton Catalyst 12Cs. I have 2 SubMersive subs to be converted to the higher powered 2.4k version as soon as the 240V amp is avail.
Carl

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post #4 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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^Hi. I spose that's adequate for a bedroom HT.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #5 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi. I spose that's adequate for a bedroom HT.

Yes, for a 2nd story room thats ~2200 CF.
Carl

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post #6 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 10:30 AM
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Audyssey Pro thread, I'm in.

I like it so far with my Onkyo 5508 but it does take some time to experiment and get it right.

I am a newbie to Pro, did my first cal about a month or so ago. It would be great if some Pro veterans jumped on here to share some tips that could be easily overlooked.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #7 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 10:36 AM
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Nice idea, SOM. I'm in as well. I probably have done 50+ Pro calibrations as I have gradually upgraded my HT components over the last year. If a week goes by without doing a calibration, I start suffering withdrawal!
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post #8 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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^Hi mj, here's an interesting tidbit. When I first ran autosetup on the A100 ( without Pro) I set both Velodyne DD10 subs vol to 11/99, which was apparently fine and sounded good. When I ran Pro the first time, I left them at that level as it appeared each just made it under the max level per the sub level test screen. It sounded good but the Pro Combined Subs curve on the Certificate looked real goofy with significant peaks and dips. I called Luke at Audyssey CS and he advised me that because the combined sub ch trim was now -10.5, that limited what Audyssey could do to smooth the overall FR. He also told me to ignore the phase warning on the subs, which are positioned half way down the front and back walls. I turned them each down to 8 and it completely smoothed the subs curve and trim is now at -6. And it sounds quite good indeed. It makes sense but seems confusing and contradictory to the old "if the channel trim's not at +/-12, it's OK" adage.

The kick drum and bass (guitar or upright) are of course usually mixed in the center, and have a nice live-feeling presence, full yet tight and with a new-to-me palpable impact. What's really unexpected is that now I also get that palpable impact with a lot of well-recorded material, eminating (tom-tom rolls and the like) from the fronts and surrounds!

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #9 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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^Hi Jerry. Have you played with reloading the same data but choosing diffeent crossovers? Pro has a different array of crossover suggestions for every pair of my speakers. My very capable fronts listed as Large, 40, 80, 60
CC=80, 40, 60
Surr=60, 80,40
Wides=40,60,80

I hate the idea of spending so much on subs and setting ANY xovers under 80! Plus I just like the idea of all speakers x'd at the same freq.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #10 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 11:19 AM
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Interesting about the subs.

When I first did mine I turned up the volume on each of my subs to 75db as prompted by the Pro software. After the calibration it had that mention at the end that says to adjust your reference level by -1.5 due to my subs being to high or something like that and both sub levels were pegged down as low as it would go. I then went back to the part were you calibrate the levels on the separate subs and put them both at the lowest setting, I think 71.5db then re-ran the calibration. This time I did not get the note about adjusting my reference level.

It would be good to get all the related info and tips from Audyssey regarding PRO and put it into the first post for easy reference.

I would like to hear more about the suggested sub set-up procedure as well as for me this was the tricky part.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #11 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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^Good suggestion about assembling tips. I reserved the second post for something along those lines.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #12 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi Jerry. Have you played with reloading the same data but choosing diffeent crossovers? Pro has a different array of crossover suggestions for every pair of my speakers. My very capable fronts listed as Large, 40, 80, 60
CC=80, 40, 60
Surr=60, 80,40
Wides=40,60,80

I hate the idea of spending so much on subs and setting ANY xovers under 80! Plus I just like the idea of all speakers x'd at the same freq.

Yes, I have done this many times. It is one of the best features of using the Pro Kit. Simply launch the Pro software, and when it gets to the subwoofer level-setting screen, click the next arrow and ignore the warning message. You will then be allowed to load a previous set of measurements, add additional measurement points, select new crossovers, or run the curve editor.
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post #13 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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^ That is cool. So what have you found with varying the crossovers and what have you settled on? Have you tried mid range comp off?

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #14 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^ That is cool. So what have you found with varying the crossovers and what have you settled on? Have you tried mid range comp off?

Regarding the different crossover options, I have experimented with both 60 Hz and 80 Hz (all speakers with the same xover). The differences to me are very subtle, both in listening tests, and using REW measurements. So I have settled for 80 Hz all around.

Everyone who has tried turning mid-range comp off has immediately turned it back on. If you experiment, listen particularly to male voices. With comp turned off, I hear a definite decrease in vocal quality, sort of a "tubby" sound.

I haven't experimented with the curve editor. I am quite pleased with the current calibration results, and am not sure my ears are trained well enough for me to trust curve editor tweaking. What I have learned over the past year is the importance of 1) careful speaker placement, and 2) a consistent, repeatable process for placing the microphone during the calibration process.

Having admired pictures of your setup, I would be interested in hearing your feedback regarding improvements you have seen with XT32 and the Pro Kit.
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post #15 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 03:03 PM
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I have Martin Logan Vantages. Thus there is no xover to the tweeter at 2.5 kHz. I turn off midbass correction for the Vantages but leave it on for my center and surrounds. I do this using the editor.

I also have tweaked the frequencies up a bit after 8 kHz. In my front speakers
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post #16 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi mj, here's an interesting tidbit. When I first ran autosetup on the A100 ( without Pro) I set both Velodyne DD10 subs vol to 11/99, which was apparently fine and sounded good. When I ran Pro the first time, I left them at that level as it appeared each just made it under the max level per the sub level test screen. It sounded good but the Pro Combined Subs curve on the Certificate looked real goofy with significant peaks and dips. I called Luke at Audyssey CS and he advised me that because the combined sub ch trim was now -10.5, that limited what Audyssey could do to smooth the overall FR. He also told me to ignore the phase warning on the subs, which are positioned half way down the front and back walls. I turned them each down to 8 and it completely smoothed the subs curve and trim is now at -6. And it sounds quite good indeed. It makes sense but seems confusing and contradictory to the old "if the channel trim's not at +/-12, it's OK" adage.

Wow, I guess I just learned something new. I don't understand it though. Would that have something to doo with the max 9dB cut that Audyssey applies?

Jeff
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post #17 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Wow, I guess I just learned something new. I don't understand it though. Would that have something to doo with the max 9dB cut that Audyssey applies?

Jeff

In the programming world we call it a *feature*. You know, since Audyssey seems to be *bug* free.

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post #18 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Everyone who has tried turning mid-range comp off has immediately turned it back on. If you experiment, listen particularly to male voices. With comp turned off, I hear a definite decrease in vocal quality, sort of a "tubby" sound.

I'd agree with this. I think that Chris K called it a "honky" sound and even cited the example of the speech that Mel Gibson's character delivered at the beginning of "The Patriot".

Mark
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I think the previous Audyssey Pro thread was premature - not enough users. I hope we now have the "critical mass" of users to sustain this thread.

Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

I think the previous Audyssey Pro thread was premature - not enough users. I hope we now have the "critical mass" of users to sustain this thread.

Mark

and more of the "masses" own it. it's not just for pros anymore....
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I have had a horrible time trying to get Audyssey Pro to integrate 2 or more subs with my Denon 4311 (which has the MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT technologies). I never had a problem integrating 2 or more subs using my Audyssey Sub Equalizer, or with my Denon 3808 (calibrated with Pro as well) for that matter.

I finally found a *cheap* solution to individually time-align and level-match up to 6 subs. Here is how I did it in case anyone else finds it hard (or impossible in my case) to get Audyssey Pro to correctly time-align, EQ, and create a smooth XO transition between their subs and satellites...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20674171

I asked Chris and Luke for help but didn't get anywhere. I know it's really hard to troubleshoot these types of things without actually being the one performing the calibration/integration. I just wish I could provide them with something to help them make Audyssey better (or more fool proof in my case ).

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post #23 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:06 PM
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I had a tough time with my subs as well counsil. Never really had a problem before with normal XT. I always go back and check the response via my Velodyne SMS-1, mainly for the transition between the subs and speakers. On occasion I would even rune REW but I have to drag the XP laptop over for that. I did notice the response wasn't as good as I was expecting but only varied slightly so I left the SMS-1 out of the mix but it took time to get it right.

I also turn off mid-range compensation as it recesses the vocals in my system. I went back and forth a few times and the convincing factor was when I forgot if I had it on or off during testing when I got a phone call. I came back and listened to my favorite tracks and really enjoyed what I was hearing. I then hit the show results button and saw that mid-comp was off so I left it there. Mid-comp probably has a lot to do with the type of speakers and there crossover point. If I recall correctly the mid-comp is a 3db cut in the 2K area so depending on the speaker type and crossover points used this would make a big difference. Audyssey explains that mid-comp provides that cut as that is were most speakers have there crossover point but what would be the effect if you don't have a normal 2K x-over point?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Wow, I guess I just learned something new. I don't understand it though. Would that have something to doo with the max 9dB cut that Audyssey applies?

Jeff

I don't really understand it either

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #25 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I have had a horrible time trying to get Audyssey Pro to integrate 2 or more subs with my Denon 4311 (which has the MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT technologies). I never had a problem integrating 2 or more subs using my Audyssey Sub Equalizer, or with my Denon 3808 (calibrated with Pro as well) for that matter.

I finally found a *cheap* solution to individually time-align and level-match up to 6 subs. Here is how I did it in case anyone else finds it hard (or impossible in my case) to get Audyssey Pro to correctly time-align, EQ, and create a smooth XO transition between their subs and satellites...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20674171

I asked Chris and Luke for help but didn't get anywhere. I know it's really hard to troubleshoot these types of things without actually being the one performing the calibration/integration. I just wish I could provide them with something to help them make Audyssey better (or more fool proof in my case ).

Try moving the subwoofers into different room positions....
1 thing we learned a few years back we found out when working with Dr.Toole's (@ JBL/Harman) multiple subwoofer setups was to 1st optimize this.
Just putting the subwoofers where they physically seem to look the best and running the EQ software doesn't deliver the smoothest and best LF response. There are just too many factors of unique LF peaks and nodes in the room to deal with. Regarding the # of subwoofers, they went up to (4) but found significant diminishing returns after (2).. Also they recommend not to mix different brands/models use a common model.

Hope that helps.

Just my $0.02...
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post #26 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

and more of the "masses" own it. it's not just for pros anymore....

Anybody care to PM me with a reliable source for the kit? I know I can call Audyssey and ask, but I'd rather go with a recommendation from a member with a good experience from a dealer.

I tried to buy one from the dealer where I bought my Denon 4311, but they told me only a licensed dealer could purchase the pro kit. Further, they told me that even if I found a pro kit on my own, I couldn't purchase a license for my 4311 because I'm not a dealer.
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post #27 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi mj, here's an interesting tidbit. When I first ran autosetup on the A100 ( without Pro) I set both Velodyne DD10 subs vol to 11/99, which was apparently fine and sounded good. When I ran Pro the first time, I left them at that level as it appeared each just made it under the max level per the sub level test screen. It sounded good but the Pro Combined Subs curve on the Certificate looked real goofy with significant peaks and dips. I called Luke at Audyssey CS and he advised me that because the combined sub ch trim was now -10.5, that limited what Audyssey could do to smooth the overall FR. He also told me to ignore the phase warning on the subs, which are positioned half way down the front and back walls. I turned them each down to 8 and it completely smoothed the subs curve and trim is now at -6. And it sounds quite good indeed. It makes sense but seems confusing and contradictory to the old "if the channel trim's not at +/-12, it's OK" adage.

The kick drum and bass (guitar or upright) are of course usually mixed in the center, and have a nice live-feeling presence, full yet tight and with a new-to-me palpable impact. What's really unexpected is that now I also get that palpable impact with a lot of well-recorded material, eminating (tom-tom rolls and the like) from the fronts and surrounds!

So when you got to the sub volume level prior to calibration were the levels still within the 71.5 to 75db level that audyssey wants? I actually ran my last calibration with the subs barely hitting 71.5db, not sure the actual # but there is a minimum and maximum and I had them both at the minimum. I just looked at my sub levels and they are at -12 but if I turn them down any further prior to re-running Pro then I will not be within the acceptable range Audyssey PRO asks for

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #28 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

Anybody care to PM me with a reliable source for the kit? I know I can call Audyssey and ask, but I'd rather go with a recommendation from a member with a good experience from a dealer.

I tried to buy one from the dealer where I bought my Denon 4311, but they told me only a licensed dealer could purchase the pro kit. Further, they told me that even if I found a pro kit on my own, I couldn't purchase a license for my 4311 because I'm not a dealer.

Well you dealer lied to you on that last part. I am not a dealer and getting the Pro license was just a matter of registering the kit at Audyssey.com and from there you free to send them $150 as many times as you like.

I got my Pro kit from a one time deal so I can't help you there. Hopefully someone else can PM you a dealer for the kit.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #29 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobkbusch View Post

Anybody care to PM me with a reliable source for the kit? I know I can call Audyssey and ask, but I'd rather go with a recommendation from a member with a good experience from a dealer.

I tried to buy one from the dealer where I bought my Denon 4311, but they told me only a licensed dealer could purchase the pro kit. Further, they told me that even if I found a pro kit on my own, I couldn't purchase a license for my 4311 because I'm not a dealer.

Your dealer is FOS .... Full Of ....

I called Audyssey and was routed to their local distributor who sold it to me direct. I also buy licenses when i need them.

Jeff
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post #30 of 5614 Old 07-10-2011, 09:05 PM
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Try moving the subwoofers into different room positions....
1 thing we learned a few years back we found out when working with Dr.Toole's (@ JBL/Harman) multiple subwoofer setups was to 1st optimize this.
Just putting the subwoofers where they physically seem to look the best and running the EQ software doesn't deliver the smoothest and best LF response. There are just too many factors of unique LF peaks and nodes in the room to deal with. Regarding the # of subwoofers, they went up to (4) but found significant diminishing returns after (2)..

I have moved my subs around all over my room. Audyssey Pro (only on my Denon 4311) just can't seem to get the delays and EQ right... and it is also having a tough time achieving a smooth XO transition between the mains (really all the satellites) and the subs.

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Also they recommend not to mix different brands/models use a common model.

All of my subs are of a sealed, push/pull design (Seaton SubMersive HPs and Epik Empires).

It's not a big deal (anymore cause I found a *cheap* solution ), I would have just liked to supply Audyssey with some data to help them improve their product.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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