The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:55 PM
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After reading the comments and Pio site on the SC-68, NO upgrade for me. Agree with most that until they allow independent crossovers on all channels and TRUE prepro support for 4 ohm speakers it is not worth doing a upgrade at this time. I don't care about the sub channel as I use the new Anti Mode Dual Core for my 3 Submersives. I like the fact that I can have more control over my subwoofers then what Audyssey allows and that is a big plus for me.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

...for my 3 Submersives

3 submersives - impressive!

Steve
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:05 PM
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how you guys know that the new SC-68 MCACC doesn't do dif xover without trying the AVR...give it a go @ the store or something...too many negative comment already and the thing is not event out.

MCACC Workflow tips <-- Click here
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

how you guys know that the new SC-68 MCACC doesn't do dif xover without trying the AVR...give it a go @ the store or something...too many negative comment already and the thing is not event out.

It would be all over the spec sheet

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

how you guys know that the new SC-68 MCACC doesn't do dif xover without trying the AVR...give it a go @ the store or something...too many negative comment already and the thing is not event out.

It would also violate the Pioneer space-time continuum as we know it....but anything is possible

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Old 05-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


Seriously, I honestly don't know how much I'll post in a new SC-68 thread. I haven't been posting a lot...this is the most I've posted in over a month. Rediscovering another old hobby, photography, so spending time doing research on lenses, accessories, reading & re-learning forgotten techniques

not much time to re-hash things here. And I've been gradually doing my own due diligence in asking questions in several Denon threads

But I certainly couldn't resist the siren song of new models.

Like a moth to a flame.....

I think you should go to 5999 posts and quit or at least change your login name
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

it is a weird capability to have. I have never tried to rip a SACD & don't know where to even dl a dsd based file, let alone play one

Apparently, Russian download sites are the places to go for SACD rips. But I cannot fathom that bootlegged downloads are what Pioneer had in mind when it decided to add USB DSD capability.

AJ
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post


Apparently, Russian download sites are the places to go for SACD rips. But I cannot fathom that bootlegged downloads are what Pioneer had in mind when it decided to add USB DSD capability.

AJ

It does seem odd
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:29 PM
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Any value to a 7.1 setup in a 3700 cubic feet room when using AppleTV with only 5.1 sound output to my SC-57?
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:30 PM
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Thanks Steve - and no, I don't think you're missing anything. I'm just a suspicious Noob. When I was at dealer checking out some Monitor Audio speakers the dealer said the SC-57 couldn't drive the Golds and wanted to talk me into also buying about $6k more of amplification. I'd really like to stick to my SC-57 (at least for a while). If it really can't do it, however, I'd accept defeat and get the Silvers or something from another brand from that lower tier.

I'd hoped there would be enough experienced enthusiasts here to help me decide either way.

- JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Looking at the top speaker in the Gold line - GX300
30-60K hz
8 ohm nominal
90 dB sensitivity
power capability 200 watts rms

why wouldn't it?
looks pretty easy to drive speaker to me

not particular ultra-low response with 6.5" woofers, relatively high efficiency, and not low impedance.

something I'm missing?

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Old 05-02-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Like a moth to a flame.....

I think you should go to 5999 posts and quit or at least change your login name

yup

my user name has significance to a legacy piece of audio gear I own. my favorite receiver of old...a Sansui QRX9001, the best, most advanced quadraphonic receiver in its day, playing all quad formats. Of course quad died about 2 years later. I'm a keeper of dead formats - Quad, vinyl, beta tape, laserdisc, HD-DVD - I have them all I never had 8 track so I'm innocent there. I've had the Sansui restored twice & still occasionally use it along with a Fosgate-Tate super-SQ decoder. Both can actually create a more immersive, discrete soundfield on many stereo sources than Dolby PLIIx. And a bit of surround sound history - Dolby bought Sansui's QS encoding/decoding format which they turned into the original Dolby Surround for cinema. So Sansui's quad format had a role to play in the creating surround sound for movies.

I guess I could change my name to SC09TX but I've owned the Sansui for 34 years. I doubt I'll own the 09 that long

Steve
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuttle View Post

Any value to a 7.1 setup in a 3700 cubic feet room when using AppleTV with only 5.1 sound output to my SC-57?

Bump
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jtuttle View Post


Bump

Don't tell anyone but sometimes I listen to stereo music with all of my speakers on to fill up the room!

I imagine you could do the same thing!
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by purdyd View Post


Don't tell anyone but sometimes I listen to stereo music with all of my speakers on to fill up the room!

I imagine you could do the same thing!

Lol. Doesn't everyone?
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks Steve - and no, I don't think you're missing anything. I'm just a suspicious Noob. When I was at dealer checking out some Monitor Audio speakers the dealer said the SC-57 couldn't drive the Golds and wanted to talk me into also buying about $6k more of amplification. I'd really like to stick to my SC-57 (at least for a while). If it really can't do it, however, I'd accept defeat and get the Silvers or something from another brand from that lower tier.

I'd hoped there would be enough experienced enthusiasts here to help me decide either way.

- JD

Wow 90db efficiency 200 watt max speakers and you need a better amp than what is in the sc57? Run away from that salesman.

Or my favorite, turn it around. If the speakers are that ineffecient I don't want to buy them.

I like to use that with extended warranties, "what? It is going to break? I don't want it if it is unreliable"
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

When I was at dealer checking out some Monitor Audio speakers the dealer said the SC-57 couldn't drive the Golds and wanted to talk me into also buying about $6k more of amplification. I'd really like to stick to my SC-57 (at least for a while)

If you were talking about electrostat speakers like the larger Martin Logans, or very low efficiency speakers, he might have a point. As it is, the Golds look like normal efficiency 8 ohm cone drivers to me, not much different than a DefTech or similar. And you can drive DT's with receivers, it's done all the time.

And while they may perform optimally with more power, you wouldn't need to spend $6000 for a suitable amp! There's plenty of great options for multichannel amps for lot less money. Like the Parasound and Parasound Halo, Outlaw 7900, ATI3007, Anthem A5, an older Rotel 1095, - all highly respected amps and all cost a far amount less than $6000. What's he want to sell you, a Krell or something similar?

There's Magnepan owners who use an SC model to drive Maggies and they are 4 ohm, low efficiency speakers so you should be OK as far as I can tell but I've never owned or listened to Monitors. I'm going by the specs and I hope some common sense.

Maybe your dealer will let you home audition a pair of Golds and you can hear for yourself.

Steve
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Wow 90db efficiency 200 watt max speakers and you need a better amp than what is in the sc57? Run away from that salesman.

On this we completely agree!

I was trying not to say what you did...but you are so right. That's a serious piece of up-selling and I'd be looking at another dealer, too. One who wasn't trying to needlessly clean out my wallet.

Steve
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by davideyes View Post

This is my first post to this forum, which I've found to be a real education. I just got an SC-57 on the advise of a local HT store as having the best change of handling the Martin Logan reQuest hybrid electrostats I inherited from my dad, for under $2K. A storm a month ago fried my entire AV system & the refrigerator (but the speakers survived), despite a MonsterPower HTS5000 protector. I was previously using a Pioneer VSX816K, and sending the pre-amp out to my father's Krell 250 wpc amp which bi-amped the speakers. This was capable of being painfully loud without trouble (and the Krell kept the room warm in the winter).

When I got the SC-57 I set it up as "7.2 channel surround system & Front Bi-amping," as per page 18 in the manual. The center and surround speakers are small old book-shelfs (college tuition comes first). With all channels running (but no subwoofer) after the MCACC, I tried a Star Wars DVD (Samsung BDD5500 player) and was woefully disappointed in the limited volume. When I had the volume over -10dB, the receiver would shut down at loud passages (which weren't so loud), which I presume is a self-preservation behavior. This problem applied to 2 other Star Wars DVDs and I was ready to take the unit back and get the cheaper SC-55 plus an outboard 2ch amp (I'd like to stay within the insurance company's reimbursement).

The next day on a whim I tried the Avatar BD, and the SC-57 rattled the floor and my gonads! I'd like to hear an explanation for this phenomenon; is it the DVDs, the blue-ray disc player, or the receiver, responsible for this behavior? For the meantime, I've set the SC-57 to limit the volume to -10dB to avoid the issue as I don't know if there's any chance of this damaging the speakers when the SC-57 shuts down.

I'd also like advise on whether I just have to buckle down and get an outboard 2ch amp to drive the speakers. Alternatively, is the problem one of some setting or incompatibility between components (I can get a Pioneer BD player if need be at your advise) such that I can keep the SC-57? I desperately want to keep using the Martin Logans, both for their wonderful sound stage and as they are a fond reminder of my dad for the entire family.

Source makes a huge difference. Blu ray is uncompressed audio DVD is compressed a lot more. With that said I have Martin Logan esl speakers which can run on a receiver. Requests are very demanding for current. Hook the krell back up and use a less expensive receiver as a processor. That's why the receiver is shutting down. A receiver is no match for a krell.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:41 AM
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I just made up my mind to get the sc-55 and now 3 new models to choose from. I like the new 4k pass through but other than that what are the big differences. I was hoping the new models would add more features and come down a bit in price. Now new decisions to be mde. Is the USB sac worth the extra 500 bucks? how much difference are the two thx certifications. The sc-67 and sc-68 both have the same power yet the SC-67 are certified with THX® Select 2 Plus, the SC-68 with THX Ultra 2 Plus, and both the SC-67 and SC-68 with Air Studios Monitor. I thought the sc-55 had air studio certification too. Why don't all new models, I thought pioneer said the air studios afilliation was needed to make digital amps Sound good. Or did pioneer just not pay for certification on the sc-65 but it still has the air studio sound? Confused
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bens993 View Post

Source makes a huge difference. Blu ray is uncompressed audio DVD is compressed a lot more. With that said I have Martin Logan esl speakers which can run on a receiver. Requests are very demanding for current. Hook the krell back up and use a less expensive receiver as a processor. That's why the receiver is shutting down. A receiver is no match for a krell.

no, the "source" being compressed makes ZERO difference in this case...

he likely has a random short somewhere...

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Old 05-03-2012, 08:02 AM
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Thanks - With all the feedback I've received from AVS I feel pretty comfortable ignoring the advice to change my AVR.

Since I've already broadcasted how dumb I am, here's another likely stupid question:

I know the SC-57 is a 9.1 channel amp and permits some bi-amping. If I only hook up a 5.1 system, would bi-amping, say, the 2 fronts allow me to access additional power from the otherwise unused 2 channels? Or is there just one shared "pool" of power among all the channels that can automatically be "shifted" among the hooked-up speakers to maximize power/efficiency?

- JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Wow 90db efficiency 200 watt max speakers and you need a better amp than what is in the sc57? Run away from that salesman.

Or my favorite, turn it around. If the speakers are that ineffecient I don't want to buy them.

I like to use that with extended warranties, "what? It is going to break? I don't want it if it is unreliable"

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Old 05-03-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks - With all the feedback I've received from AVS I feel pretty comfortable ignoring the advice to change my AVR.

Since I've already broadcasted how dumb I am, here's another likely stupid question:

I know the SC-57 is a 9.1 channel amp and permits some bi-amping. If I only hook up a 5.1 system, would bi-amping, say, the 2 fronts allow me to access additional power from the otherwise unused 2 channels? Or is there just one shared "pool" of power among all the channels that can automatically be "shifted" among the hooked-up speakers to maximize power/efficiency?

- JD

There doesn't seem to be a full consensus on whether passive bi-amping makes any difference. However, my rough count of responses to similar questions in the past seems to suggest that passive bi-amping is just a marketing gimmick. I don't know for sure. It's a pretty small investment, though, to find out. Get some inexpensive but good 12-14 gauge speaker wire from Monoprice and see if you notice any difference.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:00 AM
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he said there was a difference in loudness between sources. a blu ray will make more sound than a dvd due to more dynamic range. A different comment in his post was regarding the receiver shutting off. requests put to much of a load on his receiver. He needs to go back to the krell or a amp that can handle the load from the requests.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:01 AM
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^^^

no... sorry... not even a good try....

edit: even if your theory was correct (which it isn't, your "facts" aren't even correct), you need to read his post just a LITTLE closer...

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:10 AM
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not even a good try what do you mean? nominal impedence is 4 ohm minimum is 1.2 on requests. the sc-57 can only handle 6 ohms. only the newer ones can handle 4 ohm loads. see the manual http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manua...al_request.pdf
He also may want to check that he didnt leave the jumpers intact. The manual has different wiring configurations.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:14 AM
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please re-read the op's post and stop digging your hole even deeper...

hint: i'm not even discussing the amplification, his issue is not amplification related... however, by insisting that what you are saying re: bd vs dvd is correct, you do realize you are saying the avr is more than enough to drive his speakers, right?


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Old 05-03-2012, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks - With all the feedback I've received from AVS I feel pretty comfortable ignoring the advice to change my AVR.

jd

In case you need any more convincing, I accidentally came upon this review of the Monitor Gold 300 on AVGuide (Absolute Sound) this evening.

http://www.avguide.com/review/monito...akers-hi-fi-88

This should put your mind at ease -

"This no-nonsense stance makes the GX300 refreshingly ‘un-audiophile’ in approach. There’s no need to get wound up in finding the perfect amplifier, just any decent 100-200W device will do."

Yup, a $6000 amp sure is needed

Your dealer is full of crapola
IMO, he doesn't deserve your business.

And your SC-57 should work out just fine.

Steve
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:02 PM
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Thanks again Steve. I'll see how it goes next time I talk to him. He's been really good on pricing and service in the past, but if he really pushes for me to upgrade the amp again I'll likely move on.

I dont' know if you've had the chance to hear any of the GX series. The tweeters are amazing and the high end from them is really superb. Check them out if you get a chance.

Cheers,
JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

jd

In case you need any more convincing, I accidentally came upon this review of the Monitor Gold 300 on AVGuide (Absolute Sound) this evening.

http://www.avguide.com/review/monito...akers-hi-fi-88

This should put your mind at ease -

"This no-nonsense stance makes the GX300 refreshingly un-audiophile' in approach. There's no need to get wound up in finding the perfect amplifier, just any decent 100-200W device will do."

Yup, a $6000 amp sure is needed

Your dealer is full of crapola
IMO, he doesn't deserve your business.

And your SC-57 should work out just fine.

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Old 05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
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If I am interested in driving a single pair of speakers bi-wired at 4 ohms, will the SC-57 or SC-68 support this?
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:17 PM
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Yup, even if you don't bi-wire...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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