The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
purdyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

The only real change over the last 10 years has been the advent of HDMI and lossless codecs..

well, i disagree, the big change is music source now resides mostly on hard disks or solid state memory

so including the ability to play from a HDD plugged directly into the receiver or receive steaming information from a server is certainly as important or more so now as analog inputs or optical/coaxial digital audio inputs

I can't remember the last time I actually bought a physical audio CD.

and supporting airplay and iPods is an example of Pioneer getting it

and not supporting FLAC through USB or having USB port in the rear is an example of Pioneer not

i agree that sometime down the road, a company will have to move development efforts onto the next model and stop supporting older models

i don't agree that it should be yearly - so now that Pioneer has receivers in which the firmware can be upgraded by the user - it will be interesting to see if they continue to upgrade software on older models even when the next years model comes out
purdyd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Member
 
Goodfellas27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hello Everyone,
I got an itchy tiger finger and I might pull the tiger on a pair of Polks LSiM707; but I’m concern with my Pioneer Sc-37 pushing them: should I cap the Pioneer Elite SC-57 and sell the SC-37?

Since the SC-57 is more powerful, it might be a better pair with the Polk’s.
Let me know what you guys think. Cheer!

MCACC Workflow tips <-- Click here
Goodfellas27 is offline  
post #723 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 10:47 AM
Member
 
kimvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

(snip)

The Pioneer, in particular, confuses inputs with functionality and it handles the HDMI inputs differently than other inputs and it handles the BD HDMI input differently than other HDMI inputs.

But once nice thing it does (although it doesn't work for the BD HDMI input) is that you can feed both analog and digital to the same input function, then use the Input Sel to switch between the analog and digital. However, that doesn't work for BD since there's no analog input for BD. So for my BD player, I have it hooked up via HDMI and analog, but the analog feeds a different input. This way I can listen to movies via HDMI, but listen to CDs via analog, but it wastes an input in doing so.

(snip)

This is probably not an oversight by Pioneer, and probably not their fault; it is probably due to the "analog sunset" and how it affects manufacturers of devices which integrate with HDMI devices.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/a...ill-only-outp/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/06/08/aa...nalog-in-2013/

http://www.extron.com/company/articl...analogsunsetwp (the PDF is an interesting read if your career somehow involves AV)

So, with no Blu-Ray players coming out with analog outputs, the thinking was probably "why include analog inputs for Blu-Ray since no blu-ray players will be coming out with analog outputs?" I agree with you that it would be nice if Pioneer did include that flexibility on this AVR, but in fairness it probably wasn't Pioneer's decision, but lobbying by the MPAA and as a result the HDMI consortium in general.

In any event, the days of watching mashups like "Dark Side of the Rainbow" on consumer video gear without first ripping or without downloading "illegal"{sic} content are numbered.
kimvette is offline  
post #724 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimvette View Post

This is probably not an oversight by Pioneer, and probably not their fault; it is probably due to the "analog sunset" and how it affects manufacturers of devices which integrate with HDMI devices.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/a...ill-only-outp/

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/06/08/aa...nalog-in-2013/

http://www.extron.com/company/articl...analogsunsetwp (the PDF is an interesting read if your career somehow involves AV)

So, with no Blu-Ray players coming out with analog outputs, the thinking was probably "why include analog inputs for Blu-Ray since no blu-ray players will be coming out with analog outputs?" I agree with you that it would be nice if Pioneer did include that flexibility on this AVR, but in fairness it probably wasn't Pioneer's decision, but lobbying by the MPAA and as a result the HDMI consortium in general.

In any event, the days of watching mashups like "Dark Side of the Rainbow" on consumer video gear without first ripping or without downloading "illegal"{sic} content are numbered.

He was talking about audio, not video (which is what the analog sunset is concerned with..)
FilmMixer is online now  
post #725 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MrEastSide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

Hello Everyone,
I got an itchy tiger finger and I might pull the tiger on a pair of Polks LSiM707; but I'm concern with my Pioneer Sc-37 pushing them: should I cap the Pioneer Elite SC-57 and sell the SC-37?

Since the SC-57 is more powerful, it might be a better pair with the Polk's.
Let me know what you guys think. Cheer!

I think the power difference between the 37 and 57 is negligible at best. I don't think you're going to hear any big sound difference just by switching between these two receivers alone.

Quote:
Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
MrEastSide is online now  
post #726 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 01:15 PM
Member
 
kimvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

He was talking about audio, not video (which is what the analog sunset is concerned with..)

The logical conclusion is that analog audio outputs will be going away as well, partly due to the inevitable A/V sync issues, and partly due to the fact that the audio comes from the decrypted AACS data stream so why incur additional costs for analog audio outputs when it comes "free" in digital form with HDMI? It would introduce support costs, so why include analog audio at all? Elimination of analog audio is merely collateral damage - which is going to be welcomed with open arms by RIAA members.

And remember: all of this only penalizes people who purchase the legit products. Those who purchase "counterfeit" or "pirated" (Yar!) content will as always be completely unaffected, and these changes will not prevent nor even slow down "piracy"{sic} at all.
kimvette is offline  
post #727 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 01:46 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


There's no such thing as composite audio. The video input for the CD changer should be plugged into a composite video input (the yellow ones). So you're probably better off not using the CD input because it doesn't have a video input. Use one of the other unused analog audio inputs that has a yellow video jack above it. You can rename the input in setup to say "CD Changer" or whatever. (The optical and coax inputs are digital AUDIO, not video).

Yes, problem here is I'm running out of jacks

Quote:


The composite TV/SAT is used for the cases where the cable box doesn't have HDMI out. But I don't hook my cable box into the Pioneer anyway. I hook it directly into the TV. For the cases where I want to play TV audio via the Pioneer, if your TV supports the Audio Return Channel, it will go back through the HDMI cable to the Pioneer and appear on the TV input, but you must turn the Control functions on. I find this works really great. The only thing is that in my experience (unless I'm doing something wrong) is that I can't plug anything into the analog TV input for this to work, so it takes away an input, even if it doesn't require another cable.

I also wanted the ability to play either through the TV or the receiver/speakers, and the control functions seem to give me that, although with the ability to have the receiver turn on with the TV, I find almost no reason to use the TV speaker. For that reason I really don't want to turn the control functions off. Unfortunately, having the control functions on keeps me from using the TV/SAT input for my CD changer. I don't quite understand why the TV/SAT input would be unusable for analog audio with the control function on, but it does say so in the manual, so there must be a reason. Can anybody explain it?
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #728 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 05:56 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a Panasonic DVD/VCR combo (DMR-EZ48VK) that I bought primarily to move my old VHS tapes to DVD that I would like to hook into my SC-57. The DVD/VCR unit has the following connectors on the back...
RF In
RF Out
HDMI Out
A/V Out (DVD/VHS Common Out)
A/V Out (DVD Priority Out)
A/V In
S Video In
S Video Out
Digital Audio Out
Component Video Out

The people who hooked the system up, just hooked the DVD/VCR into the receiver via HDMI connection only. It occurs to me that I probably wouldn't be able to record anything from the TV (or other sources) that way.

What is the best way to hook this up that will give me the best quality and still allow me to record from the TV?
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #729 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimvette View Post

The logical conclusion is that analog audio outputs will be going away as well, partly due to the inevitable A/V sync issues, and partly due to the fact that the audio comes from the decrypted AACS data stream so why incur additional costs for analog audio outputs when it comes "free" in digital form with HDMI? It would introduce support costs, so why include analog audio at all? Elimination of analog audio is merely collateral damage - which is going to be welcomed with open arms by RIAA members.

And remember: all of this only penalizes people who purchase the legit products. Those who purchase "counterfeit" or "pirated" (Yar!) content will as always be completely unaffected, and these changes will not prevent nor even slow down "piracy"{sic} at all.

I disagree with you it's the "logical conclusion."

And what are the "inevitable" audio sync issues?

We down convert video all the time, and it doesn't inherently cause sync issues..

There is no concern over anyone "pirating" the audio portion of motion pictures or tv shows on BR or HD media, even at this time.. and even if that was a concern, you can't close the loop on the audio side of things because it is an analog medium at some point in it's journey to the speakers.. the same cannot be said for an HDCP video path...

As I said earlier, audio is in not considered in the analog sunset, the use of an ICT, or any other proposal...

And it's not the RIAA, it's the MPAA that was one of the main proponents behinds this..

The analog sunset, and ICT, only exists for AACS media, which doesn't cover CD's or music downloads..

While there may be a financial incentive for companies to remove analog audio outputs, it will in no way be mandated, controlled or lobbied for by the MPAA or any other organization (at least until we have digital audio to the speakers, and that's not coming any time soon).. it will purely be one of, shall we say, competitive cheapness.

Again, however, OldTimer6 wasn't talking at all about video... he was talking about audio, which is what the "Analog/Digital" selection does in the Pioneer...

Just my .02...
FilmMixer is online now  
post #730 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

I think the power difference between the 37 and 57 is negligible at best. I don't think you're going to hear any big sound difference just by switching between these two receivers alone.

+1 about the power..

I have found the 57 to be a step up in certain audio regards, but power output with speakers like that should be similar (and I would imagine unless you are going the route of a rather beefy separate amp, that would apply to almost any AVR out there today..)

You should buy the SC-57 if you want other improvements, and want the latest and greatest from Pioneer...
FilmMixer is online now  
post #731 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 09:20 PM
Member
 
kimvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimer6 View Post

I have a Panasonic DVD/VCR combo (DMR-EZ48VK) that I bought primarily to move my old VHS tapes to DVD that I would like to hook into my SC-57. The DVD/VCR unit has the following connectors on the back...

{snip}

What is the best way to hook this up that will give me the best quality and still allow me to record from the TV?

Record from the TV? Do you mean a cable box, or from the TV? If from the TV, assuming it has a video output (rare but not nonexistent) then feed that video output to the A/V input on your DVD/VCR unit. If you mean from a cable or satellite set top box, then the A/V output from the STB should go into the A/V input on your DVD/VHS unit. The problem is, HDMI is not allowed to be downsampled and fed out NTSC outputs - as the manual points out.
kimvette is offline  
post #732 of 4004 Old 09-29-2011, 11:13 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimvette View Post

Record from the TV? Do you mean a cable box, or from the TV? If from the TV, assuming it has a video output (rare but not nonexistent) then feed that video output to the A/V input on your DVD/VCR unit. If you mean from a cable or satellite set top box, then the A/V output from the STB should go into the A/V input on your DVD/VHS unit. The problem is, HDMI is not allowed to be downsampled and fed out NTSC outputs - as the manual points out.

I was talking about the cable box. I was under the impression that I could hook the DVD/VCR directly up to the receiver and use it to record any of the sources to the receiver (although it would have limited use other than the TV). There are DVR/BDR IN and OUT connectors on the back of the SC-57. Would that accomplish what I am trying to accomplish? If so, does that mean just disconnecting the HDMI cable? Would I lose anything (in terms of playback quality) by not being able to use the HDMI cable?
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #733 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 02:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
Osamede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I agree that the receiver functions should be overlaid on the TV. Since the setup functions display on the TV, it can't be that hard.

And don't get me started on the UI problems on modern A/V receivers. I think they're all a disaster. I don't think these Japanese designers know anything about UI. The Pioneer, in particular, confuses inputs with functionality and it handles the HDMI inputs differently than other inputs and it handles the BD HDMI input differently than other HDMI inputs.

What you are saying lies at the heart of the matter with these receivers. They purport to be state of the art, but are in fact not that at all.

I'm impressed by the move to continually refine the amplification, move to digital amps etc. But the GUI, the remote and the over all ease of use are really backward. The size of the unit too big, the connection panel on the back cluttered with too many useless legacy connections.

I wish someone would take a look at say something like the Marantz 1601 and challenge themselves to build a flagship amp with digital amps that is no bigger and has a lot better ear if use.

Ultimately receivers today are really just control units but they are not delivering what is possible with today's knowledge and technology.

When I heard Pioneer was redoing this year's Elite series receivers with new a generation of digital amps, I had hoped they'd actually rethink the entire package and make a real leap forward in what a receiver should be. But sadly I don't see that level of ambition in the result.

Personally I'm not finding this product all that compelling when I compare to the usability I get today with the smartphone, laptop I have or even something as simple as my Squeezebox. I had really wanted this series to be a must-buy but hard to see that here.
Osamede is offline  
post #734 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 07:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
purdyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post


Ultimately receivers today are really just control units but they are not delivering what is possible with today's knowledge and technology.

When I heard Pioneer was redoing this year's Elite series receivers with new a generation of digital amps, I had hoped they'd actually rethink the entire package and make a real leap forward in what a receiver should be. But sadly I don't see that level of ambition in the result.

Personally I'm not finding this product all that compelling when I compare to the usability I get today with the smartphone, laptop I have or even something as simple as my Squeezebox. I had really wanted this series to be a must-buy but hard to see that here.

I agree there could be some changes in thinking

I notice pioneer has a n50 that is interesting

A sc53 could have been offered that stripped down the back even more

Heck you could allow apps to be loaded and have an app store

I do disagree about one thing, 9/11 channels of third gen digital amplification with an iOS/android remote at this price isa good deal
purdyd is offline  
post #735 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 07:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
zxlr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

What you are saying lies at the heart of the matter with these receivers. They purport to be state of the art, but are in fact not that at all.

I'm impressed by the move to continually refine the amplification, move to digital amps etc. But the GUI, the remote and the over all ease of use are really backward. The size of the unit too big, the connection panel on the back cluttered with too many useless legacy connections.

I wish someone would take a look at say something like the Marantz 1601 and challenge themselves to build a flagship amp with digital amps that is no bigger and has a lot better ear if use.

Ultimately receivers today are really just control units but they are not delivering what is possible with today's knowledge and technology.

When I heard Pioneer was redoing this year's Elite series receivers with new a generation of digital amps, I had hoped they'd actually rethink the entire package and make a real leap forward in what a receiver should be. But sadly I don't see that level of ambition in the result.

Personally I'm not finding this product all that compelling when I compare to the usability I get today with the smartphone, laptop I have or even something as simple as my Squeezebox. I had really wanted this series to be a must-buy but hard to see that here.

You are but one user of a device. Not all people think like you. I also must remind you that most of the user interface never gets used once it is set up for the first time. I think does a good job of getting the main user variables in an app and a great one at that that shows volume levels and dsp data among other things.

I for one love to be able to come home from work and as soon as I pull into my driveway, I pull out my phone to turn on the receiver. I set zone 2 to some light Jazz and before I have even walked into the house, I am streaming music from Sirius, Pandora or my own music collection. I then pick up my iPad off the coffee table and I can scroll through a HUGE list of choices that all stream down to me for free. My son can turn on his AirJam app on his ipod and he can wirelessly stream his favorite playlist and we can play war with which music we want. I then can flip back to a youtube video I wanted to hear with better sound and with one button, it is done. Once I am done checking my email from my iPad, I switch back to the control app and turn off zone 2 and turn on the theater room zone which just happens to be playing 7.2 channels and 1080p 3d from VUDU streamed live and instantly. I can settle in to a movie with not much thought or effort other than a few quick strokes on a touchscreen. Really, we have come a long way from where we were. Receivers are purpose-built devices, and they evolved very well in the short time things like Airplay, bluetooth and 3d were available.

The Spiral Staircase Theater Build Thread
zxlr88- Xbox live and PS Network
zxlr8 is offline  
post #736 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 08:07 AM
Member
 
CobelAli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Your setup sounds great, no argument there. The problem I have with these audio companies, especially Pioneer, is the ease of set up and use. I haven't tried the Android application yet, but it looks pretty good. I don't see a good reason why this application can't be used for ALL the settings and functions. The problem is the companies are not willing to put any money into improving the interface. Not everyone has a smart phone or iphone; it's not easy to adjust video and audio settings using only the display on the receiver. I wish just one company would invest in some serious R&D to improve the user experience. If they gain market share by doing so, others will follow. But as long as they are all mediocre, there is no incentive to spend money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zxlr8 View Post

You are but one user of a device. Not all people think like you. I also must remind you that most of the user interface never gets used once it is set up for the first time. I think does a good job of getting the main user variables in an app and a great one at that that shows volume levels and dsp data among other things.

I for one love to be able to come home from work and as soon as I pull into my driveway, I pull out my phone to turn on the receiver. I set zone 2 to some light Jazz and before I have even walked into the house, I am streaming music from Sirius, Pandora or my own music collection. I then pick up my iPad off the coffee table and I can scroll through a HUGE list of choices that all stream down to me for free. My son can turn on his AirJam app on his ipod and he can wirelessly stream his favorite playlist and we can play war with which music we want. I then can flip back to a youtube video I wanted to hear with better sound and with one button, it is done. Once I am done checking my email from my iPad, I switch back to the control app and turn off zone 2 and turn on the theater room zone which just happens to be playing 7.2 channels and 1080p 3d from VUDU streamed live and instantly. I can settle in to a movie with not much thought or effort other than a few quick strokes on a touchscreen. Really, we have come a long way from where we were. Receivers are purpose-built devices, and they evolved very well in the short time things like Airplay, bluetooth and 3d were available.

CobelAli is offline  
post #737 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 11:56 AM
Member
 
kimvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimer6 View Post

I was talking about the cable box. I was under the impression that I could hook the DVD/VCR directly up to the receiver and use it to record any of the sources to the receiver (although it would have limited use other than the TV). There are DVR/BDR IN and OUT connectors on the back of the SC-57. Would that accomplish what I am trying to accomplish? If so, does that mean just disconnecting the HDMI cable? Would I lose anything (in terms of playback quality) by not being able to use the HDMI cable?

Look at page 22 where the manual discusses HDMI; they do not downsample the digital signal and output it to the composite monitor port - less clear, is that they also do not output analog video from HDMI sources to the other video output ports (such as DVD-R/DVR)
kimvette is offline  
post #738 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
zoetmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post


I'm impressed by the move to continually refine the amplification, move to digital amps etc. But the GUI, the remote and the over all ease of use are really backward. The size of the unit too big, the connection panel on the back cluttered with too many useless legacy connections.

Before I purchased this receiver, I used to obsess over this (even Photoshopping back panels to look like I wanted them arranged), but the problem is that everyone's idea of what legacy (if any) to include is different. For example, if you just have a cable box, a BD player and a game machine and they're all HDMI, then a very simple receiver with only HDMI in/out would suffice.

But now let's say that you're also really into audio and still listen to a lot of music and you have a big collection of CDs and you don't want to move them all to MP3. And you prefer the sound of the analog outs (because perhaps you own an OPPO 95 or similar player). Now you need analog ins on the receiver. And if you still listen to LPs, you still need the turntable input unless you're willing to buy and use a separate preamp.

And let's say you still have a pre-HDMI TV. So now you need component outs. And if you have a laserdisc player, you need component ins. And if you still have a VHS player, even if the only reason you keep it is so you can watch the unaltered version of the original Star Wars trilogy , you might still need an S-video in (although most receivers have already dropped them).

Between the SC35/37 and the SC55/57, Pioneer eliminated a pair of analog in/outs for CD-R and the like. I actually need that and I almost grabbed an SC37 before they were gone because of it. Instead, I'm just using the DVR in/outs instead, figuring that if I ever bother with a DVR, it will be part of the cable box anyway. And all modern A/V receivers have also eliminated "tape loops", which I also liked because it enabled me to monitor what was going to the CD-R. I realize the original intention of tape loops was to listen to the playback head on a 3-head tape deck, but I still found them useful. If I had more room, I'd drag my Apt-Holman preamp back out of the closet and use that for analog sources, then plug the preamp into the receiver. It's shocking to me that a 31-year-old audio component had better functionality (for analog audio) than this modern receiver.

If I were designing a receiver, I'd probably still keep one composite video in, one component video in and one S-video in, even though I don't need them. Does anyone really need more than that with all the HDMI inputs? But I'm not sure I'd keep any analog video out...maybe one composite in case someone sets up a small monitor next to the receiver. And I'd like to see a receiver that supports Apple's Thunderbolt.

And then there's the issue of "zones". I live in an apartment. I don't need zones and I'll never use them. But do they then have to make yet another model without zones?

So either the receiver manufacturers have to make multiple models or they have to be far more modular or they have to bite the bullet (like Apple does) and simply eliminate legacy connections and take the risk of alienating consumers who still have devices that need them. So even though I don't like it, I understand why the panels are the mess that they are (although NAD and Cambridge do a much better job of organizing their back panels) and it is true that once you're setup, you rarely have to deal with the back panel again.

In my particular case, in spite of all the inputs and outputs on the back of the SC55, I'm pretty much out of inputs for analog devices.

But that's not even the biggest issue. To me, the bigger issue is the way the UI controls the inputs. As far as I'm concerned, there should be no limit to the number of devices you plug in as long as there's an input jack left for it. You should be able to assign any input jack to any input function, even new ones that you create. And while pre-labeling the inputs (DVD, CD, TV) is an attempt to help consumers, I think these defaults confuse things more than they help because consumers don't realize that all the analog line inputs are actually exactly the same. I think each set of inputs should be numbered and the user should assign a "device" to the inputs that are used, although ideally, the receivers should work the way computers work and simply recognize anything plugged into it.

The other thing I take issue with is that Pioneer makes a big deal of supporting Apple's Air Play and being able to plug in an iPod or iPhone and yet their setup software only works on a PC. That's an absurd level of inconsistency. Another bugaboo is that nowhere in the manual does it tell you that you can run the receiver in 2-channel stereo mode, even though you can. And in the section dealing with input setup, where it has the chart of "possible connections", it implies those are the only possible connections, which is clearly not the case. And the setup instructions ignore analog connections almost completely.

And then there's the remote...with a light that lights up the buttons, although not well, but doesn't light up the labels above the buttons, so you've got no freaking idea what they're for if you're sitting in a dark room. This type of poor design should be criminalized.
zoetmb is offline  
post #739 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 05:37 PM
Member
 
kimvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

The size of the unit too big, the connection panel on the back cluttered with too many useless legacy connections.

To be honest with you, it sounds like you would be better off with one of those sub-$300 5.1 "home theater" kits, or maybe a "sound bar" or even a $200 AVR than a high end AVR. High end AVR buyers are typically those who want most of the quality of separates, but not the bulk of three or more power amps, and probably have many source components such as CD/SACD players, DVD players, blu-ray, turntables, cassette or reel-to-reel tape decks or maybe even musical instruments like synthesizers.
kimvette is offline  
post #740 of 4004 Old 09-30-2011, 10:40 PM
Newbie
 
insanecrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hey guys,

first time posting. just wanted to let everyone in on a great deal at best buy. ANY purchase of a pioneer elite receiver , you get a FREE pioneer elite blu ray BDP-41FD. it's a discontinued item, so get them while they're here !

thought it was a great asset if anyone is in need of a decent blu ray , let alone a free one if you're gonna get this receiver any how.

-Cheers
insanecrazy is offline  
post #741 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 07:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
turnne1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecrazy View Post

hey guys,

first time posting. just wanted to let everyone in on a great deal at best buy. ANY purchase of a pioneer elite receiver , you get a FREE pioneer elite blu ray BDP-41FD. it's a discontinued item, so get them while they're here !

thought it was a great asset if anyone is in need of a decent blu ray , let alone a free one if you're gonna get this receiver any how.

-Cheers

when you say "ANY"...do you know if the applies to clearance Pioneer elite receivers?


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
turnne1 is offline  
post #742 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

They purport to be state of the art, but are in fact not that at all.

Which AVR do you consider to be "state of the art?"
FilmMixer is online now  
post #743 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 09:58 AM
Newbie
 
insanecrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

when you say "ANY"...do you know if the applies to clearance Pioneer elite receivers?


Warren

I didn't bother to ask because I was looking at the sc57 , but the sales rep started with the vsx40 n up . I'll be back in today so I'll find out
insanecrazy is offline  
post #744 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 11:48 AM
Senior Member
 
67 - 427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecrazy View Post

hey guys,

first time posting. just wanted to let everyone in on a great deal at best buy. ANY purchase of a pioneer elite receiver , you get a FREE pioneer elite blu ray BDP-41FD. it's a discontinued item, so get them while they're here !

thought it was a great asset if anyone is in need of a decent blu ray , let alone a free one if you're gonna get this receiver any how.

-Cheers

Lol, No one will buy the JUNK BDP-41FD so they give it away free. Even for free this player is not worth having. You could probaly sell it on ebay for a few bucks
67 - 427 is offline  
post #745 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 12:15 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67 - 427 View Post

Lol, No one will buy the JUNK BDP-41FD so they give it away free. Even for free this player is not worth having. You could probaly sell it on ebay for a few bucks

Could you elaborate a little on why you consider the 41 a piece of junk? It was recommended to me (being part of the Pioneer Elite line), and I'm curious to hear more.
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #746 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 12:22 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got a few more questions about the SC-57 and it's HMG implementation. Is there a reason that it doesn't handle Photos? It seems kind of odd because the receiver handles photos through the USB/Thumb Drive connection. Also, I understand that HMG only handles audio from the Windows 7 default Music library. I can create additional libraries, but can I make the HMG recognize them? It only seems to recognize the default library. I guess I'm going to have to keep my WD Live Box downstairs still .
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #747 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Member
 
OldTimer6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there any way to specifically select a particular HDMI input from the remote? I know some of them (4,5,6 and BD) are directly accessible, but I have things plugged into 1 and 2. I know I can repeatedly hit the HDMI button on the remote, but there are two problems with that, the first is that I can't see the receiver's readout from my viewing position, and the second is that when it hits the BD input, the BD turns on which I don't want to happen. Any suggestions?
OldTimer6 is offline  
post #748 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Senior Member
 
zoetmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimer6 View Post

Is there any way to specifically select a particular HDMI input from the remote? I know some of them (4,5,6 and BD) are directly accessible, but I have things plugged into 1 and 2. I know I can repeatedly hit the HDMI button on the remote, but there are two problems with that, the first is that I can't see the receiver's readout from my viewing position, and the second is that when it hits the BD input, the BD turns on which I don't want to happen. Any suggestions?

I don't think there's a way to pick a specific HDMI input from the remote. But I consider the cycling through all the HDMI inputs to be a bug because if you have those inputs on "skip" they shouldn't cycle through when you hit the HDMI button, IMO. But what you can do is in setup, set the HDMI inputs you're not using to "skip" and then if you hit the input select forward and back buttons on the remote, it won't select the HDMI inputs that are not in use.

The BD player does not have to turn on when you hit "BD". You must have a control function turned on on the BD player. Turn it off. My BD player does not turn on when I click "BD", but I do have the receiver's Control functions turned on so it can pick up the Audio Return Channel from the TV.
zoetmb is offline  
post #749 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimer6 View Post

Is there any way to specifically select a particular HDMI input from the remote? I know some of them (4,5,6 and BD) are directly accessible, but I have things plugged into 1 and 2. I know I can repeatedly hit the HDMI button on the remote, but there are two problems with that, the first is that I can't see the receiver's readout from my viewing position, and the second is that when it hits the BD input, the BD turns on which I don't want to happen. Any suggestions?

Have you assigned your various sources to the addressable inputs (i.e. SAT/TV, DVD?)

You can assign HDMI 1 and 2 to those inputs...
FilmMixer is online now  
post #750 of 4004 Old 10-01-2011, 01:26 PM
Senior Member
 
67 - 427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimer6 View Post

Could you elaborate a little on why you consider the 41 a piece of junk? It was recommended to me (being part of the Pioneer Elite line), and I'm curious to hear more.

Let me guess a salesman recomended it to you or someone who had never seen it in action. Sent you a PM with more details
67 - 427 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Pioneer Elite Sc 57 Sc57 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver , Pioneer Elite Sc 55 Sc55 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off