The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3997 Old 10-05-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I find it interesting
Many times in these forums its been said that these SC units 05/07/25/27/35/37 had the exact same amp sections...
was that really true?
Warren

You would think there must be a little variation in models. SC-27 & SC-37, Output power varies in tests.

8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion

Yamaha RX-Z11 5C/153.2 W 7C/139.4

Pioneer Elite SC-37 5C/135W 7C/125W

Pioneer Elite SC-57 5C/ 115.1W 7C/109.6 W HT Labs Measures

Pioneer Elite SC-27 5C/111.3 W 7C/107.4 W HT Labs Measures

Yamaha RX-V3900 5C/100W 7C/88W

Onkyo TX-NR5008 5C/79W 7C/78W

Denon AVR-4810CI 5C/75W 7C/30W

Yamaha RX-A3000 5C/66W 7C/61W

What I've read here, Doubling the watts output, increases the SPL 3db. So the difference between 135 WPC and 115 WPC is no big deal to most listeners.
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post #812 of 3997 Old 10-05-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillCall View Post

What I've read here, Doubling the watts output, increases the SPL 3db. So the difference between 135 WPC and 115 WPC is no big deal to most listeners.

Right; doubling power increases sound level by 3 dB. An apparent doubling of loudness requires approximately 10 dB increase in sound level. You would gain far more by choosing more efficient speakers (say, a sensitivity/efficiency of 97dB vs. 86dB - @1W@1m of course) than to choose an amp making 10% more power.
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post #813 of 3997 Old 10-06-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kimvette View Post

Right; doubling power increases sound level by 3 dB. An apparent doubling of loudness requires approximately 10 dB increase in sound level. You would gain far more by choosing more efficient speakers (say, a sensitivity/efficiency of 97dB vs. 86dB - @1W@1m of course) than to choose an amp making 10% more power.

Doubling of loudness is a 6dB (6.0something), not ten dB increase, but the validity of your point still holds true, with which I agree.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #814 of 3997 Old 10-06-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Doubling of loudness is a 6dB (6.0something), not ten dB increase, but the validity of your point still holds true, with which I agree.

All the credible sources I've ever read or heard have claimed 10dB. Of course, this is "apparent loudness" or "perceived loudness which is of course hard to gauge given the nonlinearity of our sense of hearing. Doubling of sound pressure (pascals) does not mean that it would be perceived as "twice as loud."

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/how...eloudness.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sone

doubling apparent loudness = 10dB increase, but again it is based on our subjective senses.
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post #815 of 3997 Old 10-06-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimvette View Post

Right; doubling power increases sound level by 3 dB. An apparent doubling of loudness requires approximately 10 dB increase in sound level. You would gain far more by choosing more efficient speakers (say, a sensitivity/efficiency of 97dB vs. 86dB - @1W@1m of course) than to choose an amp making 10% more power.

The speakers I'm running now are fine , Efficiency 90 dB, it's loud and clear enough, sounds great.
Thanks for the Info.
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post #816 of 3997 Old 10-06-2011, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Doubling of loudness is a 6dB (6.0something), not ten dB increase, but the validity of your point still holds true, with which I agree.

Thanks for the Info.

Did you end up with an SC-57, did you return one or two SC-57's cause of issues?
I remember one had a bad rear channel and the other ???
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post #817 of 3997 Old 10-06-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimvette View Post


All the credible sources I've ever read or heard have claimed 10dB. Of course, this is "apparent loudness" or "perceived loudness which is of course hard to gauge given the nonlinearity of our sense of hearing. Doubling of sound pressure (pascals) does not mean that it would be perceived as "twice as loud."

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/how...eloudness.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sone

doubling apparent loudness = 10dB increase, but again it is based on our subjective senses.

I apologize. I was mistaken. A six dB increase doubles the sound pressure level (amplitude of the sound wave), but a 10dB increase doubles perceived volume, which is subjective.

Quote:


Did you end up with an SC-57, did you return one or two SC-57's cause of issues?
I remember one had a bad rear channel and the other ???

The other had, what i believe to be, a bad HDMI board. The video output was none existent, and, when it did showup, it became purple and distorted.

However, my third one is doing great.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #818 of 3997 Old 10-07-2011, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

However, my third one is doing great.

I would hope so
Your store must have gotten a bad batch.

Steve
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post #819 of 3997 Old 10-07-2011, 06:14 AM
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Hey Steve....just curious....you seem to be teetering on moving the SC09 out of your rack for something else. True? Or, am I just reading between the lines, too much?

If so, are you thinking of an SC57?

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #820 of 3997 Old 10-07-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I would hope so
Your store must have gotten a bad batch.

Likely. I got both of the first two our local BB got in, and they both were bad. Whether it could be from shipping or anything else, I couldn't tell, but they were bad. And now they are good. Problem=solved.

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #821 of 3997 Old 10-07-2011, 08:51 PM
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Seem like Pioneer start produce with 2 subs for their LX85/lX75 series.....

In UK and Malaysia just started sold this model.....

Look like time to move to this new beast with 3D plasma....
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post #822 of 3997 Old 10-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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Hello everyone
I am a new member and have been following this thread closely. The LX-85 (SC-57) has just been released in my country (Denmark) and I will be auditioning it soon. On my shortlist of speakers is the Linn Majik 109 or 140, the MA GX 100 or 200, and a bookshelf or floor stander from the new KEF R series - probably the R300 or R 500 (Only problem with the new R series is it wont be released in a white finish). However, I have a few questions which I would appreciate your input on FilmMixer, along with the rest of the fine members on this forum:-)

A bit of background first:
I have a reasonably large living room where the system will be installed. The room is round and has a diameter of 6,5 meters (21,3 feet). The front speakers will be placed relatively close to my walls - max 20-25 cm (0,66 - 0,82 feet) out from the wall. I am still on the fence with wether to go with stand mounted speakers or floor standing speakers and will make this decision after my auditions. I will also be incorporating a subwoofer into my system. The reason for the close wall placement relates to my wife that used to be an interior designer. Moreover, the speakers must preferably be in white high gloss finish... Women... but I must admit, it is an attractive finish, and I too am sold on it:-).

My system will be used 60 - 40 for music/movies so it is important for me that it really sings with music. My music taste is broad i.e. Electronic, pop, Rock, Jazz, Classic etc.

1) I have heard the Linn Majik 109 on some Naim gear and loved the 109. From the reviews on the net it supposedly is easy to place and can be placed near a wall because of the front firing bass port. However, it is a 4 Ohm speaker that requires a lot of current to really sing. Has anyone heard the lx-85 with this speaker or does anyone have some comments on whether or not it will be a good match for the LX-85?
The Linn speakers are also the only speakers I will not be able to audition with the LX-85, as I can't find a dealer that carries both here in Denmark. Hence, comments on how the Linn Majik 140 performs with the LX-85 will also be appreciated.

2: From what I have read on another thread (avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1503617-pioneer-sclx75-sclx85-owners-thread-5.html) the initial impressions are favorable with the LX-85 and MA GX200 combo. Can someone comment on how the GX range handles rock music. I have Heard Audiovector speakers and Elac speakers, with ribbon tweeters, that do not handle rock very well. My questions are: Does the GX range keep its composure when playing rock? Does the GX range sound over bright or over detailed when playing rock music, i.e. does it give ear fatigue when played over time?
Will it be possible to get a solid performance out of the GX 100 or 200, with my wall placement?
Is the GX range really a good match for the LX-85)

3: Looking forward to hearing peoples impressions of the LX-85 combined with the KEF R series, both from a music perspective and movie perspective and hopefully both on the stand mount speakers and floor standing speakers.
Moreover, when the speakers launch, it will also be interesting to hear at what distance from walls, the speakers can produce a solid performance.

Any input on the above will be appreciated.

Cheers.
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post #823 of 3997 Old 10-09-2011, 03:50 PM
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Very favourably impressed with this receiver so far.

Set up using MCACC seems to be surprisingly good - not sure using pro audio programs and instruments would improve it. The supplied speaker is decent.

A bit too much centre channel on musical material, but, mirabile dictu, a very useful and not over emphasized bass setting for the subs (I run main speakers capable of 24 hz, but also a couple of 5 cu ft subwoofers running JBL 15" 2235s with similar roll off). Lots of clean slam when needed (listen to the synth solo by Chick Corea on the Return to Forever Blu Ray Montreux disc - haven't measured it, but very low bass content).

A few annoying bits navigating the menus and a few infelicities as usual in the manual (not sure why the French version we get is so much thicker than the English one - will have to compare them.)

As usual, a whole bunch of sound programs that may be fun to play with once or twice an then never use again, but it does an excellent job on musical material. I'll get around to auditioning some dramatic material first chance I get.
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post #824 of 3997 Old 10-09-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Michael Fremer also reviewed the SC-07 in Home Theater magazine and gave that review a similar rating. What I don't understand, why is that review on the SC-57 Posted online before it hits the magazine. After all, that is why I'm a subscriber. I might as well just read the review online when they appear because I feel like I just wasted my money this month, paying them for a 2-year subscription.

Actually he gave it a 5 and he loved the SC07. In fact, his review was the reason i even started looking at the elites. It was very thorough-

http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-3

Compare that to the SC57 review. He seems he doesn't even care for it.

home theater addict
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post #825 of 3997 Old 10-09-2011, 10:12 PM
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Actually he gave it a 5 and he loved the SC07. In fact, his review was the reason i even started looking at the elites. It was very thorough-

http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...eceiver-page-3

Compare that to the SC57 review. He seems he doesn't even care for it.

Sorry, I should have said review, not rating. Read both reviews and you will find many similarities. Although, the ratings are similar too. What's half a star on "Performance"? Does it mean that he liked the SC-07 better than the SC-57? Probably not, but it does make an average consumer think so. I keep subscribing to this Thread because I'm trying to find a reason to upgrade from my SC-07. So far, I haven't found any, and will most likely wait until the next release or two. Is there anyone else that feels the same about their particular ICEamp model?

OPPO BETA GROUP
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post #826 of 3997 Old 10-09-2011, 10:18 PM
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In the never ending battle, at least for me, to display a 1920x1080 jpeg and album artwork properly i have finally reached a dead end.

As near as i can make out, the best the receiver can do is output 720x480 either 16:9 (the menu) or 4:3 home media gallery

At least at this point I can get non skewed album artwork on my projector by setting output to pure for HMG

my 1920 x 1080 jpeg can only fill this much of the screen with a little help from my projector zooming.
LL
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post #827 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post

Sorry, I should have said review, not rating. Read both reviews and you will find many similarities. Although, the ratings are similar too. What's half a star on "Performance"? Does it mean that he liked the SC-07 better than the SC-57? Probably not, but it does make an average consumer think so. I keep subscribing to this Thread because I'm trying to find a reason to upgrade from my SC-07. So far, I haven't found any, and will most likely wait until the next release or two. Is there anyone else that feels the same about their particular ICEamp model?

We are in the same boat. FilmMixer's very positive comments (along with others) and new features like AirPlay and the iPad app have me seriously considering replacing (which means moving upstairs) my SC-07. His comments regarding how the new amps sound are the most compelling, but I love my SC-07 and how it plays with my Sierra 1s. Decisions, decisions. Video up converting features mean little - that's why we have our Oppo(s)

I may want for more reviews and more feedback from owners.
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post #828 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 07:25 AM
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Hello All,

Just picked up the SC55 this weekend, just starting the setup. One item i found a bit disappointing.... No wireless internet? After all the network options, Ipad, AirPlay, Pandora, etc.. I was sad to see you had to run a cable to the receiver for internet. I saw they sell an add on for about 150.00... Anyone try or know of another solution (cheaper) to get wireless internet hook up?

I have a small room, but so far, I am enjoying the sound. I am running the B&W CM1's with B&W CM Center with Monoprice ceiling side and back speakers. I am looking for some good inexpensive speaker cables to bi-wire the front Left and right. I miss best deals cables

Thanks,
Scott
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post #829 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

We are in the same boat. FilmMixer's very positive comments (along with others) and new features like AirPlay and the iPad app have me seriously considering replacing (which means moving upstairs) my SC-07. His comments regarding how the new amps sound are the most compelling, but I love my SC-07 and how it plays with my Sierra 1s. Decisions, decisions. Video up converting features mean little - that's why we have our Oppo(s)

I may want for more reviews and more feedback from owners.

The video upconverting can be handy for a few non-DVD or BluRay apps. We have a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR, and we get a sharper, more refined picture thanks to the Qdeo in the SC--57 than using the chip on the TiVo or on our Panasonic G15. I can also stream Internet TV from our iPad 2 for content that's not handled by the Oppo or TiVo and have the AVR upscale it as well.

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post #830 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 08:35 AM
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Anyone try or know of another solution (cheaper) to get wireless internet hook up?

Personally, I have a WNDR3300 with dd-wrt acting as a bridge. The refurbished WNDR3300's go for $30-$40 (I got mine for $30 shipped which was one of my primary reasons for buying it) and then you can plug several wired devices into it. I run mine on the 5GHz band as that unit is a dual radio capable of both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
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post #831 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 10:01 AM
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Personally, I have a WNDR3300 with dd-wrt acting as a bridge. The refurbished WNDR3300's go for $30-$40 (I got mine for $30 shipped which was one of my primary reasons for buying it) and then you can plug several wired devices into it. I run mine on the 5GHz band as that unit is a dual radio capable of both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

I've used one of these http://www.netgear.com/landing/wnce2001.aspx and it seems to work fine.

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post #832 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine5555 View Post

Hello All,

Just picked up the SC55 this weekend, just starting the setup. One item i found a bit disappointing.... No wireless internet? After all the network options, Ipad, AirPlay, Pandora, etc.. I was sad to see you had to run a cable to the receiver for internet. I saw they sell an add on for about 150.00... Anyone try or know of another solution (cheaper) to get wireless internet hook up?

I have a small room, but so far, I am enjoying the sound. I am running the B&W CM1's with B&W CM Center with Monoprice ceiling side and back speakers. I am looking for some good inexpensive speaker cables to bi-wire the front Left and right. I miss best deals cables

Thanks,
Scott

I'm wondering the same thing, although I knew it didn't have WiFi built in before I bought it.

Even though it's not that much cheaper ($99), anyone know whether an Apple Express would work? It has an Ethernet output, so I don't know how the receiver would know the difference.
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post #833 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Even though it's not that much cheaper ($99), anyone know whether an Apple Express would work? It has an Ethernet output, so I don't know how the receiver would know the difference.

From the FAQ:

Quote:


Question: Can AirPort Express act as a bridge?
Answer: AirPort Express can act as a bridge in three different ways:

If you have an existing wired network, it can bridge this network to wireless clients.
If it is set up as a WDS remote or relay station, it can bridge the wireless network to wired clients.
If it is set up as a WDS remote or relay station, it can bridge the wireless network to wireless clients (or "wirelessly extend" the range of the network).

So, yes.
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post #834 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine5555 View Post

Hello All,

Just picked up the SC55 this weekend, just starting the setup. One item i found a bit disappointing.... No wireless internet? After all the network options, Ipad, AirPlay, Pandora, etc.. I was sad to see you had to run a cable to the receiver for internet. I saw they sell an add on for about 150.00... Anyone try or know of another solution (cheaper) to get wireless internet hook up?

I use a Buffalo router with dd-wrt installed as a 802.11n client, with all five ports (the four "lan" port switch and one "wan" port) on the router configured as a bridge. It works great for the components that didn't have WiFi built in or did not come with a USB WiFi adapter.
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post #835 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 11:59 AM
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Thank you for the suggestions on the router. It appears I should just get any cheap router and run the dd-wrt. I will look for a walk through on what dd-wrt is and how to set it up on my router
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post #836 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine5555 View Post

Thank you for the suggestions on the router. It appears I should just get any cheap router and run the dd-wrt. I will look for a walk through on what dd-wrt is and how to set it up on my router

Don't just get "any cheap router." Make sure it's Broadcom based. One of the ones I've installed was Atheros based (wrt400) and it just doesn't work well. Well, actually, it works fine until it hangs up and has to be rebooted (about once a month.) It has that problem on the stock firmware as well. I've put dd-wrt on the following Linksys routers with good success (obviously not including my Netgear WNDR3300): wrt610n V2, E3000, e2000, & wrt320n.
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post #837 of 3997 Old 10-10-2011, 04:44 PM
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Thanks again. One item down

Next issue....
I have a samsung 63 plasma. When I turn on hdmi control (so I can hear audio, from the Hulu or netflix) I get no picture or sound. I plug the hdmi cable into another port and it works fine. Seems only on the tv input, I have this issues. Once I turn hdmi control off, Plug in hdmi cable back to tv, picture and sound is back. Turn hdmi control on, and I loose picture and sound again... Anyone seen anything like this
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post #838 of 3997 Old 10-11-2011, 08:38 AM
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Given all the stuff they DID load on this unit, a lot of which is probably not going to see much use in the average HT, it seems a tad chintzy not to have made it wireless capable, especially when you can buy an entire DVD player that DOES have that feature for about the price of the Pioneer adaptor.

I've had mixed success with add on adaptors and finally ran a hard wired connection to my router upstairs so I could plug in anything that needed an update without futzing with it when it had lost the access info after not being connected for 6 months.
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post #839 of 3997 Old 10-11-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Even though it's not that much cheaper ($99), anyone know whether an Apple Express would work? It has an Ethernet output, so I don't know how the receiver would know the difference.

I'm using an Airport Express with a NETGEAR FS105 ProSafe 5-Port 10/100 Desktop Switch ($25 at Amazon) to connect an SC-57, DirecTV DVR, and two other devices. Set up was not exactly intuitive, but a Google search for my setup gave me the info I needed to get things running. Nary a hiccup since then. Very much recommended (esp if, like me, you already have an AE running nearby).
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post #840 of 3997 Old 10-11-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wspohn View Post

Given all the stuff they DID load on this unit, a lot of which is probably not going to see much use in the average HT, it seems a tad chintzy not to have made it wireless capable, especially when you can buy an entire DVD player that DOES have that feature for about the price of the Pioneer adaptor.

I've had mixed success with add on adaptors and finally ran a hard wired connection to my router upstairs so I could plug in anything that needed an update without futzing with it when it had lost the access info after not being connected for 6 months.

FWIW, a wired connection IS the way to go. However, if that just isn't going to happen, then a bridge is probably better.

Why?

Take my situation for example: I can "see" (with a sensitive enough antenna) 20+ wireless networks from my living room - and I don't even live in very dense housing. ALL of them are in the 2.4GHz range. I am running the only 5GHz network that I've been able to detect (it's not an exclusivity thing, but rather a bandwidth thing) in my living room. In a nutshell, with any older networking (wifi) equipment, I wouldn't be able to take advantage of the 5GHz spectrum. However, with a bridge, I just had to replace my main router and get a bridge. Buying a new receiver (and gaming console, and HTPC, and... etc) just to take advantage of the 5GHz spectrum wouldn't have been an option.

I have wifi on 3 of the 4 components connected to my bridge (PS3, Wii, Mac Mini) but don't use their built-in wifi because I get so much better throughput with my bridge.

In two years, I may be upgrading again if the technology is available and there is a need.

(Side note: Years ago, I would stream between my ReplayTV's over a wifi connection. However, my neighbors were using a channel for their wifi network that wasn't one of the "friendly" ones. (eg 1, 6, 11) So, it would affect me as it would trample over the channel I was trying to use. Since they weren't bright enough to change their default passwords, I kindly changed their network to one of those channels to solve the problem. Rather than do something like that these days, it's easier just to use the 5GHz network and avoid the masses altogether.)
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