The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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post #2461 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, since modern electronics don't "break-in"*, it's not that...

"users", otoh, who have been proven to have horrible auditory memory, as well as being subject to bias, and so on.... well....

* they either "break" or "work"....

That would make one think...all things being equal...that the person would just for some "odd" reason think their newer unit sounded better

Though ...quite frankly...I am not certain I have ever heard a poor sounding $1500 avr compared to other $1500 avrs

Different sounding..yes

Different feature set..yes

But do I think there is anything but a minimal difference in sound quality at the same price point

Not really


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #2462 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 04:07 PM
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I have been in this hobby long enough to know if I can see or hear a difference not if it requires many repeated demo's and strain to think I might hear or see a difference it was money that should have been spent on other gear better speakers,sub or room treatments at least something that you notice immediately.
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post #2463 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post


pardon my ignorance but i have often heard of breakin speaker cable in. If indeed that is a feasible theory, wouldnt it also apply to the electrical wiring in any component? just curious as my specialty is in oil and not electronics

I'm not an electrical engineer but I would agree with Chris - modern electronics that use solid state chips either work or they don't. I would imagine that old tube amplifiers and the like would probably "break in" - chips don't.
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post #2464 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 05:02 PM
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Glad this conversation got started. I had been toying with the idea of upgrading to some higher priced interconnects and wire. Sounds like the blue jean stuff will be just fine. Of course ill have to upgrade my aperions regardless
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post #2465 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Out of curiosity how do you have the mic positioned it will have an effect on it.

The mike is on a tripod on the floor in front of the couch. Directly in front of the center speaker. The mains (PSB Goldi's) are about 4 feet either side of the center channel. Interestingly the front highs check out OK.
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post #2466 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post

Glad this conversation got started. I had been toying with the idea of upgrading to some higher priced interconnects and wire. Sounds like the blue jean stuff will be just fine. Of course ill have to upgrade my aperions regardless

yup... you'll be good to go...

i have 30k worth of equipment in my room... it is all tied together with plain jane speaker wire and monoprice/tartan cables...

trust me... if it made a difference, i'd own it...

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post #2467 of 3997 Old 03-05-2012, 08:47 PM
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Speakers break in. Wires do not. At least not at any audible level... And break-in is not that noticeable for most speakers. I read all that time about needing hundreds or thousands of hours for equipment to break in; by that time the user has adjusted to the sound of the system and has been sufficiently broken in himself...

I read once about a tube needing 2k+ hours to break in, and pointed out the rated lifetime of that particular tube was about 3k hours, sooo....

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post #2468 of 3997 Old 03-06-2012, 11:39 AM
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New owner of an SC-57, got it instead of the SC-55 because I have a large SACD collection and plan to use the Oppo BDP-95 7.1 analog outs with the SC-57 MULTI CH IN (8 analog inputs). That is set up and it works well. However, today I started setting up my Harmony remote and hit a wall - I can get direct select for Blu-ray, DVR, CD, DVD, iPod, Sirius, many other inputs; but not for MULTI CH IN - that I can only select with the left side knob on the SC-57. I can also select it using the iPad control App. The remote that came with the SC-57 has buttons for discrete selection of all these other inputs, but when it comes to analog in, the manual says to select "RECEIVER" (a button), then use the keys with clockwise/counterclockwise arrows to find your way to the right input. Reminds me of an old Sony I had 20 years ago, where you had to cycle through the inputs. Anyone solved this (other than using the BDP-93 and forgetting analog in altogether)?

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post #2469 of 3997 Old 03-06-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rrhardy View Post

New owner of an SC-57, got it instead of the SC-55 because I have a large SACD collection and plan to use the Oppo BDP-95 7.1 analog outs with the SC-57 MULTI CH IN (8 analog inputs). That is set up and it works well. However, today I started setting up my Harmony remote and hit a wall - I can get direct select for Blu-ray, DVR, CD, DVD, iPod, Sirius, many other inputs; but not for MULTI CH IN - that I can only select with the left side knob on the SC-57. I can also select it using the iPad control App. The remote that came with the SC-57 has buttons for discrete selection of all these other inputs, but when it comes to analog in, the manual says to select "RECEIVER" (a button), then use the keys with clockwise/counterclockwise arrows to find your way to the right input. Reminds me of an old Sony I had 20 years ago, where you had to cycle through the inputs. Anyone solved this (other than using the BDP-93 and forgetting analog in altogether)?

Not sure if this helps but...There's an excel spreadsheet you can download from the SC-57 website with all the discrete IP codes. There you will find a discrete IP code to select MULT CH IN as a parameter for the Input Change Function. I can easily add that code into a button on my iRule remote and do what you are asking, but I'm just not sure what the capabilities are of your Harmony remote.
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post #2470 of 3997 Old 03-06-2012, 08:22 PM
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wow, that was quite a read. a lot of good info.

i demo'd the 55 at my local dealer today and really liked it. i'm upgrading from a Denon 2807. looking for a nine channel networking AVR and i don't think i want to go all the way to Denon's 4xxx series.

one question, does MCACC do sub equalization??......

"Why am I Mr. Pink?"
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post #2471 of 3997 Old 03-06-2012, 08:34 PM
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one question, does MCACC do sub equalization??......

No. Audessey xt32 does. Look at the Denon 4311 if you're interested.
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post #2472 of 3997 Old 03-06-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by joepags View Post


No. Audessey xt32 does. Look at the Denon 4311 if you're interested.

Or buy an Antimode or SMS-1....if you otherwise want the 55.

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

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post #2473 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Clamage View Post

Not sure if this helps but...There's an excel spreadsheet you can download from the SC-57 website with all the discrete IP codes. There you will find a discrete IP code to select MULT CH IN as a parameter for the Input Change Function. I can easily add that code into a button on my iRule remote and do what you are asking, but I'm just not sure what the capabilities are of your Harmony remote.

I'm using an iPad with the Pioneer software, so looks like I should investigate iRule and that Excel spreadsheet! Thanks!

Richard Hardy
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post #2474 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 07:38 AM
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No. Audessey xt32 does. Look at the Denon 4311 if you're interested.

i know, i was kidding. it was only discussed for about 30 pages

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post #2475 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 10:07 AM
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anyone done an A-B comparison of a 4311 and SC55 ? I'm demoing a 55 tomorrow - but have no opportunity to demo a 4311 before buying - the 4311 is about $300 cheaper

also I'm guessing a SC55 is a better bet than an ex-dem SC35 ? (considering the SC35 had the lower spec DACs etc) - just the ex-dem SC35 (which I'm also demoing) is about $550 cheaper

cheers
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post #2476 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

anyone done an A-B comparison of a 4311 and SC55 ? I'm demoing a 55 tomorrow - but have no opportunity to demo a 4311 before buying - the 4311 is about $300 cheaper

also I'm guessing a SC55 is a better bet than an ex-dem SC35 ? (considering the SC35 had the lower spec DACs etc) - just the ex-dem SC35 (which I'm also demoing) is about $550 cheaper

cheers

Mark, there are many former Elite owners who have purchased a 4311 over the past few months and Chris seems to have started the trend. I can say the difference in XT32 and MCAAC is HUGE. Except for a better iPAD app there are many things that the Denon does better. First and foremost they provide updates for their equipment - AirPlay being a recent example. I have had my 4311 for 4 weeks and continue to be impressed. Please note I am a SC-07 owner, have not sold my Elite, don't intend to, but it has been moved out of my main theatre room - for good. I think many would agree that for the $ the 4311 is the best receiver in its class right now. You need to consider joining us.
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post #2477 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

anyone done an A-B comparison of a 4311 and SC55 ? I'm demoing a 55 tomorrow - but have no opportunity to demo a 4311 before buying - the 4311 is about $300 cheaper

also I'm guessing a SC55 is a better bet than an ex-dem SC35 ? (considering the SC35 had the lower spec DACs etc) - just the ex-dem SC35 (which I'm also demoing) is about $550 cheaper

cheers

I can't speak to the 35, but I had a 27 and then upgraded to the 57. The 37 had the same amps and DAC as the 27 AFAIK (and the main difference between the the x5 and x7 series is THX certification and I want to say analog outs with the newer release, so outside of that the basic components impacting sound are the same, aside from those of you that use the Precision Distance added to the 57).

In my experience the 57 has slightly better imagery on HT surround than the 27, and possibly a more refined (accurate and less in your face at higher volume) presentation of music, but it's very subtle. That may be due to the default DAC setting in the 57 being different than the 27, but you can A/B the DAC to see what you like. Adjusting for that, you wouldn't know the difference unless you looked for it. The main differences between the 35/7 and 55/7 series are the HDMI processing with the Marvell Qdeo chip, assignable amps, Airplay related features, and the iControl capability.

As to smurray's comment: even though I'm moving from Elite to the 4311 myself because I like the idea of what XT32+Pro can do, if you care enough about bass EQ to buy a standalone unit to augment the SC, I think it's a philsophical matter of whether you like what MCACC or XT32 gives you, with the right attention to detail for the different issues involved (MCACC can tweak, you need Pro to do the same degree of curve tweaking on XT32, for one thing). You certainly won't go wrong with a 55 or 7 otherwise if you understand that the approaches are different to begin with.

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #2478 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I can't speak to the 35, but I had a 27 and then upgraded to the 57. The 37 had the same amps and DAC as the 27 AFAIK (and the main difference between the the x5 and x7 series is THX certification and I want to say analog outs with the newer release, so outside of that the basic components impacting sound are the same, aside from those of you that use the Precision Distance added to the 57).

In my experience the 57 has slightly better imagery on HT surround than the 27, and possibly a more refined (accurate and less in your face at higher volume) presentation of music, but it's very subtle. That may be due to the default DAC setting in the 57 being different than the 27, but you can A/B the DAC to see what you like. Adjusting for that, you wouldn't know the difference unless you looked for it. The main differences between the 35/7 and 55/7 series are the HDMI processing with the Marvell Qdeo chip, assignable amps, Airplay related features, and the iControl capability.

As to smurray's comment: even though I'm moving from Elite to the 4311 myself because I like the idea of what XT32+Pro can do, if you care enough about bass EQ to buy a standalone unit to augment the SC, I think it's a philsophical matter of whether you like what MCACC or XT32 gives you, with the right attention to detail for the different issues involved (MCACC can tweak, you need Pro to do the same degree of curve tweaking on XT32, for one thing). You certainly won't go wrong with a 55 or 7 otherwise if you understand that the approaches are different to begin with.


thanks for the replies I love the possibilities of XT32 - but I'm a long time Pioneer fan - so also tempted with a SC55 The Pioneer attracts me with its decent DACs (I don't care about 32 bit but its nice the Pioneer uses dedicated 2 channel DACs), nice D3 power amp stage.

the Denon obviously attracts me with XT32, I'm just slightly off-put why they went from nice 2 channel BB 1791 DACs in the 4310 and went to using 2 8 channel DACs. Also I've only seen one review which shows 5 channels driven, and none 7 channels driven.

tough decision.

its nice to see the SC55 is so similar (excluding the remote and precision distance) than the SC57
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post #2479 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

anyone done an A-B comparison of a 4311 and SC55 ? I'm demoing a 55 tomorrow - but have no opportunity to demo a 4311 before buying - the 4311 is about $300 cheaper

also I'm guessing a SC55 is a better bet than an ex-dem SC35 ? (considering the SC35 had the lower spec DACs etc) - just the ex-dem SC35 (which I'm also demoing) is about $550 cheaper

cheers

you found a 4311 $300 cheaper than an SC-55? wow, i'm finding the opposite, and a bigger gap.

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post #2480 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 11:55 AM
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^^^

here you go...

click me

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #2481 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

thanks for the replies I love the possibilities of XT32 - but I'm a long time Pioneer fan - so also tempted with a SC55 The Pioneer attracts me with its decent DACs (I don't care about 32 bit but its nice the Pioneer uses dedicated 2 channel DACs), nice D3 power amp stage.

the Denon obviously attracts me with XT32, I'm just slightly off-put why they went from nice 2 channel BB 1791 DACs in the 4310 and went to using 2 8 channel DACs. Also I've only seen one review which shows 5 channels driven, and none 7 channels driven.

tough decision.

its nice to see the SC55 is so similar (excluding the remote and precision distance) than the SC57

If SQ is your issue, they're the same. I went with the 57 at the time because Magnolia didn't have the 55 yet (not to mention I bought the unit that they were putting on display when I walked in, and got a $200 discount due to their extra 10 minutes of labor)

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #2482 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

here you go...

click me

You're evil

I at least presented the case objectively.....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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post #2483 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 01:32 PM
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^^^

this is news?

hey, i just posted a link... it's up to the user whether or not they click on it...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #2484 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 01:38 PM
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^^^

here you go...

click me

thanks. now i'm torn again. damn!

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post #2485 of 3997 Old 03-07-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

thanks for the replies I love the possibilities of XT32 - but I'm a long time Pioneer fan - so also tempted with a SC55 The Pioneer attracts me with its decent DACs (I don't care about 32 bit but its nice the Pioneer uses dedicated 2 channel DACs), nice D3 power amp stage.

the Denon obviously attracts me with XT32, I'm just slightly off-put why they went from nice 2 channel BB 1791 DACs in the 4310 and went to using 2 8 channel DACs. Also I've only seen one review which shows 5 channels driven, and none 7 channels driven.

tough decision.

its nice to see the SC55 is so similar (excluding the remote and precision distance) than the SC57

Zeven channel driven test of the Denon 4311 is 62 watts. (See www.audiovision.de and then the test-archive section). it will be enough but nothing to writed home about. Don't get caught up in the avsforum XT32 (4311) hype. Some reviewers favour MCACC as do i. The 4311 isn't, imo, build like a 'flagship' tank. Don't disregard 32 bit dac's. No content for it is what people say, but the sound in the Pioneer is upsampeled, just like a 12 bit deepcolor videochip resamples color information that results in smoother color rendering, for example. Personally i find the Denon sounds like someone has put a towel over the speaker and the Pioneer as if someone has removed it. I did demo'd the two. The D3 amps sound highly dynamic and smooth. Have wisdom with your purchase.
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post #2486 of 3997 Old 03-08-2012, 09:32 AM
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Zeven channel driven test of the Denon 4311 is 62 watts. (See www.audiovision.de and then the test-archive section). it will be enough but nothing to writed home about. Don't get caught up in the avsforum XT32 (4311) hype. Some reviewers favour MCACC as do i. The 4311 isn't, imo, build like a 'flagship' tank. Don't disregard 32 bit dac's. No content for it is what people say, but the sound in the Pioneer is upsampeled, just like a 12 bit deepcolor videochip resamples color information that results in smoother color rendering, for example. Personally i find the Denon sounds like someone has put a towel over the speaker and the Pioneer as if someone has removed it. I did demo'd the two. The D3 amps sound highly dynamic and smooth. Have wisdom with your purchase.

thanks Joost

well I had a 2 1/2 hour demo switching between a SC55 and a SC35 today ...

I tried the SC35 first - thought it sounded rather good - if a bit smooth and warm (but powerful). Switched over to the SC55 and immediately it seemed to drive the large speakers (2 channel demo only this was so that I could switch between the 2 amps quickly) better, more bass, but what was more immediately apparent was how much more open the SC55 was - like a cover had been removed.

that said - at times the sound didn't sound quite coherent - hard to describe really.

switched back to the SC35 - and the difference wasn't quite as accute as before, it sounded good,powerful, but still reasonably "warm" - definately less bright than the SC55.

switched back to the SC55 again - and still sounded more open - perhaps less powerful - but definately more hifi than the SC35

overall I preferred the SC55 - it reminded me more of the sound I got from my previous 59TXi and Arcam AVR350.

that said the SC35 is $500 cheaper as on clearance

I think I still prefer the SC55 - but its definately a different sound

one thing -I'd definately disagree with any review that stated the new D3 amps sound "dark" - definately sounded brighter than the ICE amps of the SC35 to me.

note all EQ was off, all sound processing like Standing wave, Hi-bit etc - all off, and was driving full range speakers without a sub

tough decision now - even harder since i'm getting a demo of an Anthem tomorrow

then theres the 4311 to consider (which I'll struggle to get a demo of)

oh and the clerance SC27 I found

aaaaargh!!
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All class D amps require an output (low-pass) filter, and that is a very problematic thing to put at the output of a power amp. IIRC, that was one of the issues the Pioneer guy said they had with the ICE amps. If the newer amps use a different output filter it coiuld change the sound when driving a speaker. That would be speaker-dependent, however, though as a genreal rule if the filter is better that should translate to better control of whatever is on the output terminals. Won't matter to a load resistor, though.

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post #2488 of 3997 Old 03-08-2012, 05:59 PM
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This may sound like a stupid question, but I just bought the SC-57 and it is my first higher end A/V receiver and I've never bi-amped before. Can I still bi-amp even if I'm using an external amp? Thanks.
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post #2489 of 3997 Old 03-08-2012, 06:10 PM
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I am not sure the peramp outputs allow bi-amping, but you can only do passive bi-amping with an AVR so I would not waste my time. With an external amp, you would want an active crossover and the extra amp channels, and of course must be able to bypass your speaker's crossovers and be able to choose frequencies and such as good or better than the manufacturer.

Bi-amping would be at the bottom of my priority list...

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post #2490 of 3997 Old 03-09-2012, 11:19 PM
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Thanks don.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Pioneer Elite Sc 57 Sc57 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver , Pioneer Elite Sc 55 Sc55 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver

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