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#1 ·
The 2011 Pioneer Elite 9.1 SC-55 and SC-57 AVR's have hit dealers.


MSRP FOR THE SC-55 is $1700.00 and the SC-57 is $2100.00.


PRODUCT PAGES:

Pioneer SC-55

Pioneer SC-57


NOTE THAT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF VIDEOS ON THE PRODUCT PAGES THAT SHOWCASE THE TECHNOLOGY AND FEATURES


These AVR's use a new digital amp design that Pioneer has coined D3.

Quote:
An amplifier for the power hungry


The SC-57’s Class D3 9-channel amplifier is the most powerful amplifier of any multi-channel A/V receiver in the industry. Keeping the new audio formats of the Blu-ray Disc format in mind, Class D3 takes high-resolution multi-channel audio to a whole new level of immersive performance


Rated at 140 watts x 9 channels is a lot of power but is not the whole story. Where the SC-57 really shows its unprecedented power output capability is when driving multi-channels simultaneously without losing significant per-channel output. Class A/B amplifiers simply cannot match the efficiency of Class D3 as their power output per channel diminishes rapidly when more channels are added to the work-load. This kind of unprecedented power capability allows you to appreciate the full dynamics from any media source in a way never before possible. The ability to drive more channels, simultaneously, means you can fully reproduce all of the dynamics and impact of high definition multi-channel Dolby and DTS soundtracks with up to 9 channels of the highest quality power output available today.

LINKS FOR THE PRODUCT SHEET AND OWNERS MANUALS (note these are direct links to the PDF downloads):

SC-55 Product Sheet

SC-57 Product Sheet

SC-55/57 Owners Manual

_______________________________________________


Both AVR's are compatible with the iPad App iControl AV2, which gives fairly complex control oner the operation and setup of the receivers.

Pioneer iControl AV2 Product Page (which includes link to app at iTunes Store)


In addition, both the SC-55 and SC-57 are compatible with the RF remote system RF-CU100 (which uses an LCD screen which essentially mimics that front panel LCD on the remote.)

________________________________________________


SPECS AND DETAILS:

New and/or notable features are in bold:


Details for the SC-55:



Class D3 AMPLIFICATION


140 W x 9 (1 kHz, THD 0.08% @ 8 ohms FTC)

› Multi Channel Simultaneous Drive Capability Total 720 W (8 ohms, 1Hz,THD, 1%)

› 8 & 6 Ohm Impedance Select


BUILD


› 3D Space Frame Construction

› Aluminum Front Panel

› Advanced Direct Construction

› Trans. Stabilizer


AUDIO FEATURES


› AIR Studios Monitor Certification

THX® Select 2 Plus

› Dolby® TrueHD / Dolby Pro Logic® IIz / Dolby Pro Logic IIx / Dolby Digital EX / Dolby Digital Plus

› DTS-HD® Master Audio / DTS Neo:X - 9.1 Channel Surround / DTS Neural Surround / DTS-ES

› Dual TI “Aureus” 32-Bit Digital Core Engine

› 192 kHz / 32-bit Digital to Analog Converter

› 192 kHz / 24-bit Analog to Digital Converter

› Pioneer Advanced MCACC Room Calibration

• 3D Time Axis Measurement

• Polarity Check

Reverb Before and After Calibration Results (OSD and iPad)

• Standing Wave Control

› Pioneer Sound Enhancements

• 32-Bit High Bit Sampling

• Full Band Phase Control

• Phase Control Plus

• Virtual Depth, Height and Surround Back

• Optimum Surround - Auto Bass, Dialog, and Surround Balancing

• Jitter Reduction

• PQLS Bit-stream

• Auto Sound Retriever (Multi)

• Sound Retriever AIR / Sound Retriever Link

• Front Wide Surround Movie & Music

• Auto Level Control (Multi)

• Advanced Surround (15 Mode DSP)

• Front Stage Surround

• Headphone Surround


VIDEO FEATURES


› Marvell QdeoTM 1080p/24fps Video Scaler

› Advanced Video Adjust

› Stream Smoother / Stream Smoother Link

› Triple HD Noise Reduction

› Video Conversion to HDMI

› HDMI® Features

• 3D Ready (Blu-ray Disc®, Broadcast and Game)

• Audio Return Channel

• Deep Color and x.v.ColorTM


HOME NETWORK FEATURES


AirPlay

› DLNA Certified® (1.5)

› Internet Radio with vTuner

› PANDORA internet radio

› Rhapsody® Music Service1

› Sirius® Internet Radio1

› Windows® 7 Certified

› Home Media Gallery

› FLAC 192 kHz / 24-bit Audio File Playback via Network

› WAV 192 kHz / 24-bit Audio File Playback via Network


CONNECTIVITY


› Made for iPod®, iPhone®, iPad®

• Charges iPhone, iPad, iPod

• Combination USB / Composite Video Cable Supplied

• iPhone, iPad, iPod Stored and Streaming Audio & Video with Album Art

› Memory Audio Playback (MP3/WMA/WAV) › Pioneer Air Jam App

• Connects via Bluetooth® to Share Music and Create Playlists (With iPod touch, iPhone, iPad)

• Free via the App StoreSM (Optional AS-BT200 Bluetooth Adapter Required)

› HDMI Inputs (7 In (6 Back, 1 Front) / 2 Out)

› Front USB Input

› Ethernet Terminal

› Wireless LAN Ready (Optional AS-WL300 Wireless LAN Converter Required)

› Phono Input

› Sirius XM Radio Ready2

› Adapter Port (Optional AS-BT100 or AS-BT200 Bluetooth Adapter Required)

› Component Video Inputs (3 In / 1 Out)

› Digital Inputs (2 Coaxial, 3 Optical)

› Analog A/V Inputs (4 A/V, 1 Audio)

› 11.2 Assignable Pre-Outs for up to 9.1 Channel Playback

› 7 Mode Speaker Assignment

› Large Speaker Terminals (9 Channels Assignable)


CUSTOM

› Pioneer iControlAV2 App

• A/V Receiver and Blu-ray Disc player Control From iPod touch, iPhone, iPad • Free via the App StoreSM

› IP Control with Full 2-Way Feedback


› AVNavigator System Set-Up (CD-ROM Included for PC) › Full Color Graphic User Interface (GUI)

› Zone 2 AV with HD Component Video Output

› Zone 3 AV

› RS-232C

› 12v Trigger (2 Out)

› SR In/Out

› IR(2In/1Out)

› HDMI Standby Through for Low Power Consumption

› Detachable Power Cord

› Auto Power Down

› Illuminated Learning Remote Control


____________________________________________________________ __

Additional features of the SC-57 over the SC-55:

› Gold Pin Plug

› Selected Skeleton Speaker Terminals


› THX® Ultra 2 Plus


MCACC Features:

> Precision Distance


Pioneer Sound Enhancements:

> Front, Center, Surround, B-Speaker Bi-Amp


Connectivity:


> Multi Channel Analog Input (7.1)

> 10 Mode Speaker Assignment



__________________________________________________


REVIEW LINKS

__________________________________________________

Home Theater Magazine Oct 11 Review
 
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#1,680 ·
"I don't know what it takes to have the mods make a thread a sticky. Maybe someone like FilmMixer does. But a thread for pissed off Pioneer customers sure deserves one."


What would be the point? So you and others can continue to rant about your complaints? That's a whole lot of wasted energy on something that you yourself said Pioneer doesn't listen to.
 
#1,681 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker /forum/post/21387849


Thank you, FilmMixer. You articulated in a very methodical way my feelings about the SC-55/7 and this thread. Personally I can't stand fanboy threads (whether it's Amazon or even worse, Yelp): groupthink of any stripe is nauseating. And I certainly wouldn't want to silence Chris, Steve or anyone else that feels that Pioneer has let down high-end customers with its business model. I would very much like to read their thoughts, in the spirit of the knowledge and style they have, in a thread about Pioneer and customer value, or the flaws in it's business approach vs. Denon. It's just that this discussion could be associated with any new SC model over the past three years, not specifically these AVRs.


Actually, IMHO the real questions are how - and why - a prospective owner should build a learning curve to appreciate what a Pioneer/MCACC AVR offers or doesn't offer vs. a Denon/Audyssey XT32 AVR, and why the all in one solution is preferable to a non-Audyssey AVR and separately purchased, standalone bass EQ as an upgrade path. Relative cost by itself isn't enough.


Stuart

Like Steve, FlimMixer, ccotenj, etc, you make some good points.


Perp.....we were a pretty avid and fervent group when Pio seemed to be hitting on all cylinders. However, that has seemingly changed with them.


IMHO, there are two (maybe 3) really good upper end AVR manufacturers....Denon (for all the reasons Steve and Chris have already pointed out), Pioneer Elite (for what they've done in the past, and we hope they do in the future) and maybe Yamaha (although they seemed to have vacated the high end with the last high end RX-Z series). Onkyo/Integra can't even play since they are so functionally woeful.


I'll leave you with this. I have never known any company that didn't benefit by listening to their customers. Pioneer would do well to remember this.
 
#1,682 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurolicious /forum/post/0


"I don't know what it takes to have the mods make a thread a sticky. Maybe someone like FilmMixer does. But a thread for pissed off Pioneer customers sure deserves one."


What would be the point? So you and others can continue to rant about your complaints?

The POINT would be two fold


It would cleanup up the product threads - you want to rant? Go to the pioneer screwed me thread


It would be one place where a buyer could be referenced to view past history and make an informed decision on buying


And I don't think there is any doubt that someone from pioneer reads avsforum - whether they do anything about it is another matter


Personally I don't understand why all companies don't actively engage in the user forums or at the very least host a forum that they can control
 
#1,683 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd /forum/post/21389182


Personally I don't understand why all companies don't actively engage in the user forums or at the very least host a forum that they can control

At the very least, they should not host a forum they can control.

Like others have stated, Pioneer reps need to step up to the plate and contribute on an open forum like AVS, for various reasons.
 
#1,684 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd /forum/post/21389182


The POINT would be two fold


It would cleanup up the product threads - you want to rant? Go to the pioneer screwed me thread


It would be one place where a buyer could be referenced to view past history and make an informed decision on buying


And I don't think there is any doubt that someone from pioneer reads avsforum - whether they do anything about it is another matter


Personally I don't understand why all companies don't actively engage in the user forums or at the very least host a forum that they can control

One reason, speaking professionally from my day job in the marketing research business: marketers believe that people don't answer naturally if they know someone from the company is reading what they say, where they say it. Put another way, it's more effective in learning about your customers to have, say, a beta tester for Oppo Blu-Rays on AVS forum interact with other users than have an Oppo rep ask questions. That's because the more that a rep from the suits interacts, the more people ***** about the product becuase he/she is there.


Either that or they don't care:).


For what it's worth, there actually _is_ a software product that companies can use to mine comments from forums or other social networks, and use them to track customer satisfaction and complaints. What they make of it is a different problem.


And if there is an 'official' ***** thread, I'm joining it. I have a few of my own about Pioneer for reasons outside of AVRs. That's why as much as I love the SC-57, I'm not a fanboy.
 
#1,685 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular /forum/post/0


At the very least, they should not host a forum they can control.

Like others have stated, Pioneer reps need to step up to the plate and contribute on an open forum like AVS, for various reasons.

I think there can be issues at times with companies using open forums - not the least of which is the abuse they often are subjected too


Some forums don't want companies to post since they are essentially advertising for free and most forums are trying to make a buck or at least break even, notice the ads on this site


I agree it is preferred


The sites I have seen that are managed by the companies are very good with good open communication


Here is a great example of how to do it right

http://forums.symphonypro.net/


Imagine how different the vibe would be if pio had simply communicated openly and honestly with their customers on the sc-09?


I understand the concern, a company would throttle any complaint but when that happens it is completely obvious as no product will be perfect and you can smell the heavy hand of deleting posts a mile away


If for no other reason then there are places like this to spread the word
 
#1,686 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd /forum/post/21389289


I think there can be issues at times with companies using open forums - not the least of which is the abuse they often are subjected too

That's an excellent point. Also, the people on AVS probably represent less than 1% of the buying public. Pioneer is a worldwide organization. I highly doubt they would care about a handful of people complaining on forums.
 
#1,687 ·
Well for me, what turned me off from pioneer is the change to their elite line. The got rid of the ICEamps, the new design of the AVR looks cheap, is cheap. The fold down section of the new SC's don't have a recessed form or buttons like past SC's, its all one flat surface. And they're using brush metal instead of gloss. The whole thing just seems dumbed down to me.


These reasons are why i got the SC-37 before they were gone. I would love if they went back to the past formula and just added new things like a sub EQ, universal Xovers, and kept on improving their ICEamps with B&O. Everybody would be happy. They didn't need this large change.
 
#1,688 ·
The change from ICEPower to IR amplifier modules hardly seems worth debating as both are reputable designs. I have been told that B&O is harder to work with and charges more for licensing but that is gossip from friendly fellow EEs, not the official word. I am somewhat indifferent to looks as it sits nearly out of sight in my console; in a dark room all I usually see is my universal remote anyway.


I love the adjustability of MCACC and fact the the power amps (ICE or IR) put out a lot of power under most all conditions. The rest of the performance and feature set, with the exception of OSD (not a big deal for me but I know it is to others), seems comparable to other top-of-the-line AVRs. The biggest drawback was and is the lack of sub-EQ. I was very surprised that was not addressed in the 55/57 and would have me getting a Denon at this time. Like many, I keep hoping they'll add that to the next model...
 
#1,689 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano /forum/post/21389580


Well for me, what turned me off from pioneer is the change to their elite line. The got rid of the ICEamps, the new design of the AVR looks cheap, is cheap. The fold down section of the new SC's don't have a recessed form or buttons like past SC's, its all one flat surface. And they're using brush metal instead of gloss. The whole thing just seems dumbed down to me.


These reasons are why i got the SC-37 before they were gone. I would love if they went back to the past formula and just added new things like a sub EQ, universal Xovers, and kept on improving their ICEamps with B&O. Everybody would be happy. They didn't need this large change.

I actually thought the build quality and look of the 57 I owned was better than any of the other SC's I had outside of the 09.


I can also tell you that, IMO, the D3 amps are an improvement over the ICE amps... how much is placebo I don't know, but I was mightily impressed.


Just my .02...


BTW.. I think you meant not having universal crossovers.
 
#1,690 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurolicious /forum/post/21389513


That's an excellent point. Also, the people on AVS probably represent less than 1% of the buying public. Pioneer is a worldwide organization. I highly doubt they would care about a handful of people complaining on forums.

My $0.02, which is admittedly cynical:

If you want to be a company that makes money, maximizing a customer's lifetime satisfaction once they're a buyer isn't the only thing in the equation. There's a tradeoff between having a loyal base of customers that are happy with your product, but don't buy new products frequently, vs. a much larger group of customers that are either impulse buyers, and shop on price, or simply want to buy the newest model in the line because it's, well, new, and they're ready to replace what they have. That last buyer is a different animal from a high-end buyer with upgradeitis.


For every ss9001 that wants firmware upgrades at the Denon level, there's many more people that want to go from a lower end to a higher end Pioneer, or folks that are simply in the market to go from some AIO monstrosity or $600 Sony unit to "the best that they can afford". Put that way, the SCs are a good buy if a sales person at the local B&M is a Pioneer fanboy, and the store sells the higher end Pioneer unit. It's the same mentality that keeps DefTech selling Supercube subs, even though anybody that knows anything about subs knows that ID direct subs are superior to all but their highest end unit.


Also, what's a better selling point to the average consumer: the receiver now has Airplay and cool new amps, or it now has bass EQ? And since it's human nature to want the latest and greatest, a "new" SC-57 may sound better to the layperson than the Denon that came out last year, but has one arguably superior feature over Pioneer. And to top it off, somebody probably has research that an ss9001 or Chris would be more likely to migrate to separates, or is overall less brand loyal, than the mass of buyers.
 
#1,691 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer /forum/post/21389686


I actually thought the build quality and look of the 57 I owned was better than any of the other SC's I had outside of the 09.


I can also tell you that, IMO, the D3 amps are an improvement over the ICE amps... how much is placebo I don't know, but I was mightily impressed.


Just my .02...


BTW.. I think you meant not having universal crossovers.

Well, for me it's a little different. I'd had a Denon 5803 for years, and had started realizing that the higher end units from Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha etc. had room correction, HDMI switching support, and supported higher resolution audio (i.e. BluRay) much better than the flagship I'd bought in 2002. That led me to going with an SC-27 on Black Friday in 2009. At the time it was a better deal featurewise than the Denon alternatives from my POV, plus we'd had a Pioneer Elite 9G set and I liked the idea of compatible units. In the age of ignorance, I didn't know zilch about bass EQ in those days. That came later.


All was OK until I started reading AVS Forum more seriously. I bought the SC-57 because I although I liked the Class D sound, I wanted future HDMI support for 3D, we'd become serious members of the cult of Apple (so Airplay sounded like a great add-on), and the AVR got great initial reviews here (plus I'd just sprung for the AS-EQ1). Plus I twisted the arm of my Mangolia rep to get a deal on an unused SC-57 that they'd just put on display the week they started carring the AVR. So basically it's your fault, FilmMixer:).
 
#1,693 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer /forum/post/21389686


I actually thought the build quality and look of the 57 I owned was better than any of the other SC's I had outside of the 09.


I can also tell you that, IMO, the D3 amps are an improvement over the ICE amps... how much is placebo I don't know, but I was mightily impressed.


Just my .02...


BTW.. I think you meant not having universal crossovers.

Yes i ment individual Xovers. My mistake.


The build of the 55/57 is not in the same class of the old SC's IMO. They had a certain high quality look to them. Just like the kuro, you knew it would be special when you turned it on. I loved the remote too. Now they've resided to some cheap material and buttons instead of the better quality like before. The four specific buttons (audio, video, home, return) and the directional key are not even metal anymore. Its just those little attention to details that i loved.


Im sure the D3's sound just as good as the ICE, but pioneer had a good thing going with them. It really made them stand out from everyone else. I haven't had the chance to fully hear the new amps. Im thinking of buying a 57 from bestbuy and doing a comparison with my SC-37. I love the smoothness and warmth from my 37. Yes i know, audiophile words.


On another note. Did you see my post awhile back about the SC's boosting tracks by 4db? You said you were going to check on that. I posted a update in this thread hoping you would see it.


I know you said THX AVR's compensate but alot of DTSMA tracks are left at -31 and my 37 still applies a 4db boost.
 
#1,694 ·
I see you folks did quite well continuing the debate without me
That's cool.

All the points made since my last post are excellent.


For the record & FWIW, my background is engineering but I have been in technical sales for close to 25 yrs and marketing support now. I think I have a clue what good salesmanship is about & how Pioneer upper management has responded to the legitimate concerns of Susano owners is not it.


In the business I'm in, customer loyalty & confidence in a rep's technical, communication and acct management abilities is critical. If you lose that, you lose an account, period. Building long term relationships with customers is the only way to success. While Pioneer's customers are dealers, ultimately it's the end user who makes or breaks the company and it is they who decide.


Pioneer's present marketing path is a form of churning. Lose 1 "hi-end" customer, replace with 3-6 lower end customers. Sell 6+ $600 receivers instead of 1 flagship. They can probably afford to do this for a long time since there are a lot more people buying low cost gear. The problem is a lot of companies that sell more & more on "volume" end up with increasingly lower profit margins since there are so many more bottom feeder competitors. Add to that the loss of brand loyalty and it can end up as a race to the bottom.


But Pioneer seems to be succeeding at what they're doing.


The only point I can make is if they had no plans to provide the service & long term support expected of such companies like Anthem, Denon, etc. they should never had entered that market. The SC-09 thread is full of owners very happy with the product but no owner that's posted for several years is happy with Pioneer and the lack of support for their purchase.
 
#1,695 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rward /forum/post/21391012


Can the SC-55 or 57 pass through audio or video through hdmi while the receiver is turned off? What's needs to be done for this to happen?

According to the manual, yes. HDMI Control has to be turned on and Standby Through turned on. Then audio/video signals will be passed to the TV when the receiver is off.
 
#1,697 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 /forum/post/21391280


I see you folks did quite well continuing the debate without me
That's cool.

All the points made since my last post are excellent.


For the record & FWIW, my background is engineering but I have been in technical sales for close to 25 yrs and marketing support now. I think I have a clue what good salesmanship is about & how Pioneer upper management has responded to the legitimate concerns of Susano owners is not it.


In the business I'm in, customer loyalty & confidence in a rep's technical, communication and acct management abilities is critical. If you lose that, you lose an account, period. Building long term relationships with customers is the only way to success. While Pioneer's customers are dealers, ultimately it's the end user who makes or breaks the company and it is they who decide.


Pioneer's present marketing path is a form of churning. Lose 1 "hi-end" customer, replace with 3-6 lower end customers. Sell 6+ $600 receivers instead of 1 flagship. They can probably afford to do this for a long time since there are a lot more people buying low cost gear. The problem is a lot of companies that sell more & more on "volume" end up with increasingly lower profit margins since there are so many more bottom feeder competitors. Add to that the loss of brand loyalty and it can end up as a race to the bottom.


But Pioneer seems to be succeeding at what they're doing.


The only point I can make is if they had no plans to provide the service & long term support expected of such companies like Anthem, Denon, etc. they should never had entered that market. The SC-09 thread is full of owners very happy with the product but no owner that's posted for several years is happy with Pioneer and the lack of support for their purchase.

Agreed. I'm another former Susano owner who switched to Denon. I use/used both only as a pre/pro and IMO, the 4311 sounds noticeably better. As much as I loved the SC-09, it had become dated with no upgrade path in sight.


Let's face it, Pioneer didn't have the resources to update the Susano the way Denon has with their AVP. Denon probably had to swallow really hard to commit to the upgrade.
They did step up though, if only not to poison their brand.


What was unforgivable was the complete lack of communication from Pioneer. Anything would have been better than getting stonewalled. Hell, we didn't even know if they would survive at all. During the Kuro "death watch" days their financials were horrifying. To this day, it appears that much of what they do is about cutting costs in order to survive.


Chris
 
#1,698 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaxdad /forum/post/21391481


Hi All

Picked up my SC 55 yesterday. Hope to hook it up tomorrow. I was looking over the manual. It says the default speaker setting is 9.1. What should I set it to for just a plain old 7.1 system?

Thanks for any info,


Howard

You can use any of the options except the 5 ch bi-amp ones. Which one depends on if your 7.1 setup is rear channels, side wides or heights. I'll assume you have rears & not bi-amping the fronts -


you can leave it at A) 9.2 (the receiver will detect which speakers are not connected), B) 7.2 & B spkrs, D) 7.2 & a zone 2.


Look at the drawings in the manual to see which layout best matches your setup.


Choices can be confusing



Have fun with the new toy, looks like you'll have a nice Christmas
 
#1,699 ·
You all have me rethinking my decision. One of the advantages of the ice amps is how cool they run. My receiver does not have much ventilation at all. How hot does the Denon

4311 run vs the SC 55? Got a good deal from BB on my SC 55 so the Denon would cost a few hundred more if I could find one at the recent deal prices. Also,I have an anti mode EQ.

Thanks for any input.


Howard
 
#1,700 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 /forum/post/0



According to the manual, yes. HDMI Control has to be turned on and Standby Through turned on. Then audio/video signals will be passed to the TV when the receiver is off.

Yes it works see page 53 of the manual


make sure you are using HDMI1 for your display


and i am not sure if it is really needed but note it says to unplug the power cord, make all the hdmi connections and then plug the cord back in
 
#1,701 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 /forum/post/0


But Pioneer seems to be succeeding at what they're doing.


The only point I can make is if they had no plans to provide the service & long term support expected of such companies like Anthem, Denon, etc. they should never had entered that market. The SC-09 thread is full of owners very happy with the product but no owner that's posted for several years is happy with Pioneer and the lack of support for their purchase.

i think the point is that Pioneer was not succeeding at what they were doing with the high end video/audio gear and something had to change or they would cease being in business


i imagine the plan was the SC-09 would not be the last of the flagship products but little things like the global economy, rising yen, demographics, customer tastes may have changed that


i don't think pioneer traded low end for high end, i think there just wasn't enough at the really high end to justify staying in that market - and they always had low end stuff


a little communication would have gone a long way and would still help today - just peruse the BD player threads


i do find it encouraging that there is some positive news in the SC-09 thread with a new dsp firmware that appears to fix some audio problems


for the SC-5x it does appear the amp is every bit as good or better than the ICE amps - it is getting very good reviews and the only bench test review i have seen shows much better distortion figures in the core power band area vice the ICE


going to a PIO internal design is also ecouraging it will give them more control of the product and a better path forward



the D3 amp does run cooler than a class a/b amp although the receiver still gets warm


i like the brushed aluminum finish and the knobs and buttons seem of very high quality to me. I doubt anyone uses those little buttons inside the door


the remote is just a remote - but to me the future is really some type of handheld display device - smart phone/tabiet - so icontrolav is the way forward -


if you want there are other remote options that you can spend your money on so i would rather have a cheap remote anyway


airplay is a very nice feature and so is the flac 192 Khz 24 bit streaming


the point is well taken, which is sexier, bass management or airplay but i don't see that as an either or thing and at this price point, more flexibility in bass management woudl be appreciated by the buyer


i do blame the reviewers for not pointing this out and educating the public - in fact the audio reviews for A/V equipment is atrocious in my opinion as they don't even begin to check out all the features


however, pio did put some money into the amps and you can have all the bass management in the world and it won't make a bad amp with distortion good


so lets not loose sight of some of the good


at this price point with the SC-55 in particular i am still happy with my purchase - although with the fire sale on the denon 4311, i would have to really look closer if i was buying again


i am really disappointed in the blu ray players as i bought the sc-55 with a partial eye to matching up with the new players


to me most consumers do NOT buy an AVR every year or even every three months, it might be more like a car purchase, every 3-5 years or more


and like cars, we often develop brand loyalty if we have a good experience


so it remains to be seen whether pio can keep me as a customer (a typical customer) for my next purchase


i don't expect a lifetime of support for my SC-55 but i do expect that when icontrolav3 comes out next year that I (unlike the SC-3x users with icontrolav2) will be able to use it


and that since now, users can update their firmware, that software improvements will roll out at some periodic rate
 
#1,702 ·
Just (literally) moved from near-top-of-the-line 2005 (VSX 72) to an SC-57 today. I ran the first MCAAC calibrations, because it took a good long while to just get the physical wiring right. My sub is suddenly MUCH more powerful. Almost overpowering. Something I need to get used to, or is there a switch I've missed?
 
#1,704 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker /forum/post/21389773


My $0.02, which is admittedly cynical:

If you want to be a company that makes money, maximizing a customer's lifetime satisfaction once they're a buyer isn't the only thing in the equation. There's a tradeoff between having a loyal base of customers that are happy with your product, but don't buy new products frequently, vs. a much larger group of customers that are either impulse buyers, and shop on price, or simply want to buy the newest model in the line because it's, well, new, and they're ready to replace what they have. That last buyer is a different animal from a high-end buyer with upgradeitis.

Marketing in the digital age is all about customer loyalty, primarily because of the higher transparency. Especially with durable goods.


Its a hopeless game if you want to build a business on the idea of you doing marketing yourself to acquire new customers. The game today is about building a loyal following and satisfying them so much that they do the job of acquiring new customers for you. In other words customer satisfaction is the new marketing.


Understanding that its very obvious why the AVR business is struggling. They are stuck in the old school. They dont listen to customers, they chop quality and they hope to market their way into sales. This business will get eaten up by the likes of Apple. And not because it had to be that way, but because the incumbents are hopelessly out of touch.


Having owned a Pioneer AVR recently, I just think they are out of touch with what it takes to build a long term business in consumer durables at all ends. Their "high end" products lack the detail and customer repsonsiveness required at that level, while their low end products should be simpler and easisr to get the best out of.Lacking at both ends.
 
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