The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3997 Old 08-05-2011, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The 2011 Pioneer Elite 9.1 SC-55 and SC-57 AVR's have hit dealers.

MSRP FOR THE SC-55 is $1700.00 and the SC-57 is $2100.00.

PRODUCT PAGES:

Pioneer SC-55

Pioneer SC-57

NOTE THAT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF VIDEOS ON THE PRODUCT PAGES THAT SHOWCASE THE TECHNOLOGY AND FEATURES

These AVR's use a new digital amp design that Pioneer has coined D3.

Quote:
An amplifier for the power hungry

The SC-57’s Class D3 9-channel amplifier is the most powerful amplifier of any multi-channel A/V receiver in the industry. Keeping the new audio formats of the Blu-ray Disc format in mind, Class D3 takes high-resolution multi-channel audio to a whole new level of immersive performance

Rated at 140 watts x 9 channels is a lot of power but is not the whole story. Where the SC-57 really shows its unprecedented power output capability is when driving multi-channels simultaneously without losing significant per-channel output. Class A/B amplifiers simply cannot match the efficiency of Class D3 as their power output per channel diminishes rapidly when more channels are added to the work-load. This kind of unprecedented power capability allows you to appreciate the full dynamics from any media source in a way never before possible. The ability to drive more channels, simultaneously, means you can fully reproduce all of the dynamics and impact of high definition multi-channel Dolby and DTS soundtracks with up to 9 channels of the highest quality power output available today.

LINKS FOR THE PRODUCT SHEET AND OWNERS MANUALS (note these are direct links to the PDF downloads):

SC-55 Product Sheet

SC-57 Product Sheet

SC-55/57 Owners Manual
_______________________________________________

Both AVR's are compatible with the iPad App iControl AV2, which gives fairly complex control oner the operation and setup of the receivers.

Pioneer iControl AV2 Product Page (which includes link to app at iTunes Store)

In addition, both the SC-55 and SC-57 are compatible with the RF remote system RF-CU100 (which uses an LCD screen which essentially mimics that front panel LCD on the remote.)
________________________________________________

SPECS AND DETAILS:

New and/or notable features are in bold:

Details for the SC-55:


Class D3 AMPLIFICATION

140 W x 9 (1 kHz, THD 0.08% @ 8 ohms FTC)
› Multi Channel Simultaneous Drive Capability Total 720 W (8 ohms, 1Hz,THD, 1%)
› 8 & 6 Ohm Impedance Select

BUILD

› 3D Space Frame Construction
› Aluminum Front Panel
› Advanced Direct Construction
› Trans. Stabilizer

AUDIO FEATURES

› AIR Studios Monitor Certification
THX® Select 2 Plus
› Dolby® TrueHD / Dolby Pro Logic® IIz / Dolby Pro Logic IIx / Dolby Digital EX / Dolby Digital Plus
› DTS-HD® Master Audio / DTS Neo:X - 9.1 Channel Surround / DTS Neural Surround / DTS-ES
› Dual TI “Aureus” 32-Bit Digital Core Engine
› 192 kHz / 32-bit Digital to Analog Converter
› 192 kHz / 24-bit Analog to Digital Converter
› Pioneer Advanced MCACC Room Calibration
• 3D Time Axis Measurement
• Polarity Check
Reverb Before and After Calibration Results (OSD and iPad)
• Standing Wave Control
› Pioneer Sound Enhancements
• 32-Bit High Bit Sampling
• Full Band Phase Control
• Phase Control Plus
• Virtual Depth, Height and Surround Back
• Optimum Surround - Auto Bass, Dialog, and Surround Balancing
• Jitter Reduction
• PQLS Bit-stream
• Auto Sound Retriever (Multi)
• Sound Retriever AIR / Sound Retriever Link
• Front Wide Surround Movie & Music
• Auto Level Control (Multi)
• Advanced Surround (15 Mode DSP)
• Front Stage Surround
• Headphone Surround

VIDEO FEATURES

› Marvell QdeoTM 1080p/24fps Video Scaler
› Advanced Video Adjust
› Stream Smoother / Stream Smoother Link
› Triple HD Noise Reduction
› Video Conversion to HDMI
› HDMI® Features
• 3D Ready (Blu-ray Disc®, Broadcast and Game)
• Audio Return Channel
• Deep Color and x.v.ColorTM

HOME NETWORK FEATURES

AirPlay
› DLNA Certified® (1.5)
› Internet Radio with vTuner
› PANDORA internet radio
› Rhapsody® Music Service1
› Sirius® Internet Radio1
› Windows® 7 Certified
› Home Media Gallery
› FLAC 192 kHz / 24-bit Audio File Playback via Network
› WAV 192 kHz / 24-bit Audio File Playback via Network

CONNECTIVITY

› Made for iPod®, iPhone®, iPad®
• Charges iPhone, iPad, iPod
• Combination USB / Composite Video Cable Supplied
• iPhone, iPad, iPod Stored and Streaming Audio & Video with Album Art
› Memory Audio Playback (MP3/WMA/WAV) › Pioneer Air Jam App
• Connects via Bluetooth® to Share Music and Create Playlists (With iPod touch, iPhone, iPad)
• Free via the App StoreSM (Optional AS-BT200 Bluetooth Adapter Required)
› HDMI Inputs (7 In (6 Back, 1 Front) / 2 Out)
› Front USB Input
› Ethernet Terminal
› Wireless LAN Ready (Optional AS-WL300 Wireless LAN Converter Required)
› Phono Input
› Sirius XM Radio Ready2
› Adapter Port (Optional AS-BT100 or AS-BT200 Bluetooth Adapter Required)
› Component Video Inputs (3 In / 1 Out)
› Digital Inputs (2 Coaxial, 3 Optical)
› Analog A/V Inputs (4 A/V, 1 Audio)
› 11.2 Assignable Pre-Outs for up to 9.1 Channel Playback
› 7 Mode Speaker Assignment
› Large Speaker Terminals (9 Channels Assignable)

CUSTOM

› Pioneer iControlAV2 App
• A/V Receiver and Blu-ray Disc player Control From iPod touch, iPhone, iPad • Free via the App StoreSM
› IP Control with Full 2-Way Feedback

› AVNavigator System Set-Up (CD-ROM Included for PC) › Full Color Graphic User Interface (GUI)
› Zone 2 AV with HD Component Video Output
› Zone 3 AV
› RS-232C
› 12v Trigger (2 Out)
› SR In/Out
› IR(2In/1Out)
› HDMI Standby Through for Low Power Consumption
› Detachable Power Cord
› Auto Power Down
› Illuminated Learning Remote Control

____________________________________________________________ __

Additional features of the SC-57 over the SC-55:

› Gold Pin Plug
› Selected Skeleton Speaker Terminals

› THX® Ultra 2 Plus

MCACC Features:
> Precision Distance

Pioneer Sound Enhancements:
> Front, Center, Surround, B-Speaker Bi-Amp

Connectivity:

> Multi Channel Analog Input (7.1)
> 10 Mode Speaker Assignment


__________________________________________________

REVIEW LINKS
__________________________________________________

Home Theater Magazine Oct 11 Review
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post #2 of 3997 Old 08-05-2011, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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reserved for initial impressions -- this will be updated will all initial impressions, however, I will make new posts so subscribers don't have to keep referring to the one.
_________________________________

PACKAGING, APPEARANCE, ETC...

Same as the 27 and 37... white box, not frills. The 57 weighs about 37 lbs.

I like the brushed look, and the two big knobs. But the AVR sits behind me so it is out of sight.

Like the detachable power cord.

Remote is fairly light weight, backlight button. Usable, nothing special.

NOTE THAT AT THIS POINT I HAVE ONLY GOTTEN THE UNIT UP AND RUNNING. NO MCACC. JUST THE BASIC SETUP AT THIS POINT.

Out of the box, the unit comes setup for 9.1, so I did all of the manual setup, etc.

This series of SC's are still using a common crossover for all speakers. That suits me fine, and I am a big believer in keeping the bass time aligned as possible.

Nothing really new to add to the menu structure and settings. same as the 27 and 37 as I remember them (HDMI CEC is On, THX Loudness is On, etc..)

Still need to turn off HDMI Control to rename inputs.

IPAD CONTROL AND AIRPLAY.

I have been a big complainer for years about Pioneers lack of OSD. The RF remote with the 37 was really cool, and made me almost forget about having that feature... I love seeing volume levels, surround modes, dialog normalization offsets, codec, etc....

The unit is no different out of the box.....

HOWEVER... THE IPAD APP IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WANTING FOR YEARS...

If you have an iPad, download the app and use it in demo mode... but it is much cooler in actual use.

You not only get volume information on the control home page.. but codec, dialog normalization value, surround mode, access to video processing parameters, etc.

There is a status page, which at a glance, shows you input and output information for both audio and video. Really cool.

You can also rename the inputs using a keyboard, and it really is low latency over the wifi network. Volume and surround mode changes are almost instant.

I have seen it lose contact with the AVR if you leave the app for a long time, run other network heavy apps, and come back.. but it is fairly good about re-syncing itself.

You can also look at MCACC and it's settings in 2D, 3D, all at once, per channel... etc.. really numerous options to see what the room correction is doing in detail. (and I will have to amend this section once I actually run it to see what functionality is there post measurements.)

What could be improved with the app (Pioneer, are you listening?)

Changing the surround modes requires you repeatedly tap the mode to scroll through them (i.e. no direct choice...) Analogous to how you do it with the remote, but use the iPad's power for a pop up menu for direct selection.

It would be cool for the status page (which, I should note, show you input and output channels via a glowing set of speakers (i.e DD 2.0 only the L and R pulse.) to allow you to change the output settings (i.e. surround modes or video resolutions...) It would be redundant to the main control page, but a nice feature.

Allow you to disable the silly Emphasis modes/page (Bass, Dialog and Finger EQ....) These tweaks can be left on, so an overall disable would be nice.

On to Airplay..

It just works (sorry, couldn't resist Steve Jobs..)

I also run the Remote app on my iPad... I simply started up Remote, connected to my iTunes library, tapped on the speaker selection box, and voila... Computer, Apple TV and SC-57.

Click on SC-57, started a song, and the AVR switched over to the Home Media Gallery and started playing.

Cool.

A couple of notes.... unlike the newer Apple TV Gen 2, it appears to be streaming at 44.1 (the Apple TV sample rate converts everything to 48kHz...)

However, I still cannot play my DTS CD library like I could with my Gen 1 Apple TV.

I also found, by accident, a cool feature. The volume control in the Remote app controls the volume of the SC-57.

HOWEVER.... be careful.. because I can also control the iPad and AppleTV, the volume was at the top... it doesn't automatically re-sync with the 57, so if you click on it and it is full blast because that is where you had it for your iTunes on the computer, you will slam the SC up to max... Also note that iTunes on your network also allows volume control for it's slider when Airplay is in use.... JUST A NOTE OF CAUTION....

Those are the initial impressions from a non performance point of view..

Later in the week I will try and post subjective listening comments..

But at this point, I am having fun (and the amps sound good out of the box.. I have a feeling the fear of the change will be un-founded.)

EDIT: Left the unit on overnight. It was fairly cool to the touch this morning.. warm, but nowhere near as hot as other units I've had in my system.
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post #3 of 3997 Old 08-05-2011, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved for post regarding differences between this lineup and the SC-35/37

-- It appears, unlike the older SC models, that the main firmware of the AVR can be updated either via USB or the net. This would be a first for the SC lineup (older units only let you update the Home Media Gallery FW.)

-- The two way RF remote package (CU-RF100) that used to be included with the SC-37 is optional at this point on both the 55 and 57.
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post #4 of 3997 Old 08-05-2011, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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FIRMWARE UPDATES:

_____________________

08/30/2011:

"Scheduled Update for your Pioneer device.

On July 12th, Rhapsody implemented a change to the service that will require an update to your Pioneer AV Receiver.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. In order to continue using Rhapsody, you will need to update the firmware on your Pioneer device.

Updated 8/30/2011"

"CHANGE HISTORY:

Ver 1-202-086-703-069
- Firmware Update for Rhapsody Subscribers"

_____________________
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post #5 of 3997 Old 08-05-2011, 08:06 PM
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Looking to purchasing one of these and will move the SC-07 to my living room setup. Anyone going for the SC57, I'm looking for the best deal so please do share.

Click the link to see pics of my home theater

http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/q...oom/?start=all
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post #6 of 3997 Old 08-06-2011, 08:12 PM
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Thanks for starting this thread, looking forward to some great info. I had an Onkyo 5008.....I say had, because mine failed, and I sent it back to Amazon. I could of sent it in for repair, but decided to just return it. So now I'm really considering Pioneer to replace it.
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post #7 of 3997 Old 08-06-2011, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronicTonic View Post

Thanks for starting this thread, looking forward to some great info. I had an Onkyo 5008.....I say had, because mine failed, and I sent it back to Amazon. I could of sent it in for repair, but decided to just return it. So now I'm really considering Pioneer to replace it.

Hello,
I would get an SC-37 as it is THX Ultra2 Plus compared to THX Select, had stellar Bench Test Results, the HDMI Spec did not change and if budget is a concern, the 37 can even be found Refurbished.

While the 55/57's may prove to be fantastic. However, as they no longer use the B&O ICE Power Modules, it is a bit of a wild card whereas the 37 is a known quantity. I also personally prefer the Industrial Design of the 37, but that of course is subjective.
Cheers
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post #8 of 3997 Old 08-06-2011, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectronicTonic View Post

Thanks for starting this thread, looking forward to some great info. I had an Onkyo 5008.....I say had, because mine failed, and I sent it back to Amazon. I could of sent it in for repair, but decided to just return it. So now I'm really considering Pioneer to replace it.

I've owned the 5008 (as well as the SC 09, 27 and 37...). I really enjoyed the Onkyo (except for the incessant clicking.).

After doing research, and watching the videos on the new D3 amps, I don't think Pioneer has taken a step backward with this line up...

I should have first impressions up by Monday night.
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post #9 of 3997 Old 08-07-2011, 01:50 PM
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I currently own the Onkyo 3008 (currently in the shop getting fixed under warranty), but will sell it and replace with Pioneer. Incessant clicking, indeed--too glitchy and clunky at this price point. I'm very interested in some initial feedback on the SC-55. I agree that it fails in the looks department, but aesthetics is way down on my list of priorities (behind performance, reliability, ergonomics, and features).
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post #10 of 3997 Old 08-07-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgetzoff View Post

I currently own the Onkyo 3008 (currently in the shop getting fixed under warranty), but will sell it and replace with Pioneer. Incessant clicking, indeed--too glitchy and clunky at this price point. I'm very interested in some initial feedback on the SC-55. I agree that it fails in the looks department, but aesthetics is way down on my list of priorities (behind performance, reliability, ergonomics, and features).

i just got the SC-55 yesterday

so far everything seems to work - airplay, networking, internet radio

but there is a heck of a lot of features to try out

it is certainly quite an upgrade from my VSX-1014 in features

sounds great to me on my magnepan 1.7's
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Anyone know if either one of them will allow you to run the back rear speakers along with the front heighth speakers at the same time.

I have the previous model & it doesn't allow you to run the back rear speakers with the front heighth speakers at the same time. You have to choose one or the other.

I'd also be interested in anyone that had the previous model with the ice amps to compare this one with the Class D amps to hear if there is any difference in sound for the good or bad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marine92104 View Post

Anyone know if either one of them will allow you to run the back rear speakers along with the front heighth speakers at the same time.

I have the previous model & it doesn't allow you to run the back rear speakers with the front heighth speakers at the same time. You have to choose one or the other.

I'd also be interested in anyone that had the previous model with the ice amps to compare this one with the Class D amps to hear if there is any difference in sound for the good or bad.

These are both 9.2 channel amps, so they will be able to do your standard 7.1 (w/SB channel) plus EITHER front wides OR front heights in addition to another subwoofer (.2).

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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FilmMixer,
I saw in another thread that you have a MRX 700 did you sale it for new Pioneer Elite. Can't wait for your review on the new Elite's. One question for you. I'm using a Pioneer vsx 1120 and was thinking about upgrading to SC37, Yamaha A3000 or get an amp. I'm using NHT with a 86db sensitivity.

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post #14 of 3997 Old 08-07-2011, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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So as not to get lost in the other posts, I will copy this into my initial impressions post and make new ones as the days progress.

PACKAGING, APPEARANCE, ETC...

Same as the 27 and 37... white box, not frills. The 57 weighs about 37 lbs.

I like the brushed look, and the two big knobs. But the AVR sits behind me so it is out of sight.

Like the detachable power cord.

Remote is fairly light weight, backlight button. Usable, nothing special.

NOTE THAT AT THIS POINT I HAVE ONLY GOTTEN THE UNIT UP AND RUNNING. NO MCACC. JUST THE BASIC SETUP AT THIS POINT.

Out of the box, the unit comes setup for 9.1, so I did all of the manual setup, etc.

This series of SC's are still using a common crossover for all speakers. That suits me fine, and I am a big believer in keeping the bass time aligned as possible.

Nothing really new to add to the menu structure and settings. same as the 27 and 37 as I remember them (HDMI CEC is On, THX Loudness is On, etc..)

Still need to turn off HDMI Control to rename inputs.

IPAD CONTROL AND AIRPLAY.

I have been a big complainer for years about Pioneers lack of OSD. The RF remote with the 37 was really cool, and made me almost forget about having that feature... I love seeing volume levels, surround modes, dialog normalization offsets, codec, etc....

The unit is no different out of the box.....

HOWEVER... THE IPAD APP IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WANTING FOR YEARS...

If you have an iPad, download the app and use it in demo mode... but it is much cooler in actual use.

You not only get volume information on the control home page.. but codec, dialog normalization value, surround mode, access to video processing parameters, etc.

There is a status page, which at a glance, shows you input and output information for both audio and video. Really cool.

You can also rename the inputs using a keyboard, and it really is low latency over the wifi network. Volume and surround mode changes are almost instant.

I have seen it lose contact with the AVR if you leave the app for a long time, run other network heavy apps, and come back.. but it is fairly good about re-syncing itself.

You can also look at MCACC and it's settings in 2D, 3D, all at once, per channel... etc.. really numerous options to see what the room correction is doing in detail. (and I will have to amend this section once I actually run it to see what functionality is there post measurements.)

What could be improved with the app (Pioneer, are you listening?)

Changing the surround modes requires you repeatedly tap the mode to scroll through them (i.e. no direct choice...) Analogous to how you do it with the remote, but use the iPad's power for a pop up menu for direct selection.

It would be cool for the status page (which, I should note, show you input and output channels via a glowing set of speakers (i.e DD 2.0 only the L and R pulse.) to allow you to change the output settings (i.e. surround modes or video resolutions...) It would be redundant to the main control page, but a nice feature.

Allow you to disable the silly Emphasis modes/page (Bass, Dialog and Finger EQ....) These tweaks can be left on, so an overall disable would be nice.

On to Airplay..

It just works (sorry, couldn't resist Steve Jobs..)

I also run the Remote app on my iPad... I simply started up Remote, connected to my iTunes library, tapped on the speaker selection box, and voila... Computer, Apple TV and SC-57.

Click on SC-57, started a song, and the AVR switched over to the Home Media Gallery and started playing.

Cool.

A couple of notes.... unlike the newer Apple TV Gen 2, it appears to be streaming at 44.1 (the Apple TV sample rate converts everything to 48kHz...)

However, I still cannot play my DTS CD library like I could with my Gen 1 Apple TV.

I also found, by accident, a cool feature. The volume control in the Remote app controls the volume of the SC-57.

HOWEVER.... be careful.. because I can also control the iPad and AppleTV, the volume was at the top... it doesn't automatically re-sync with the 57, so if you click on it and it is full blast because that is where you had it for your iTunes on the computer, you will slam the SC up to max... Also note that iTunes on your network also allows volume control for it's slider when Airplay is in use.... JUST A NOTE OF CAUTION....

Those are the initial impressions from a non performance point of view..

Later in the week I will try and post subjective listening comments..

But at this point, I am having fun (and the amps sound good out of the box.. I have a feeling the fear of the change will be un-founded.)

EDIT: Left the unit on overnight. It was fairly cool to the touch this morning.. warm, but nowhere near as hot as other units I've had in my system.
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post #15 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 08:48 AM
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I'm a little disappointed (mind you I haven't heard or seen these new receivers - just going by the literature).

I was hoping that Pioneer would break some new ground: perhaps a bit-mapped display on the receiver and more attention to stereo audio for music. They promote the fact that it "works" with iPad, iTunes and iPhone via AirPlay, but the DLNA still only works with a PC. I realize that not a lot of people have these, but I have a standalone CD-R unit and it's not accomodated very well in this receiver. And no coax digital out? Why doesn't it have WiFi built-in like my $160 Blu-ray player does?

IMO, a "top of the line" product should have virtually no power loss when all channels are driven (not that there isn't enough remaining power). If the amps are discrete, then we're only talking about having a more robust power supply.

I think, especially now that prices are dropping, that I'm going to go with last year's model: the SC37, which also has the (supposed) benefit of having ICE amps.

For me personally, these receivers (and those from most other manufacturers) have both more and less than what I need. The fact is that the majority of the U.S. population lives in cities and the majority of people who live in cities live in apartments. I've yet to see a high-end receiver that truly gives stereo music audio as much attention as 5.1 and higher movie audio. I don't need zones and I only need one legacy video input. I also think this business of pre-labeling inputs (CD, DVR, BD, etc.) is absurd, especially on receivers that have pushbutton input selection or prelabeled remotes. I'd love to see Tom Holman design a modern A/V receiver with the same approach that he designed his Apt-Holman preamp. Simple, but powerful. Personally, I think one reason why the receiver market is so bad is because the manufacturers are not making products that make sense for modern living. Either they're crappy low-end products or they're for homes with five media rooms. Who wants to feed the same signals throughout the home anyway? People want to watch/listen to different things.
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post #16 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I'm a little disappointed (mind you I haven't heard or seen these new receivers - just going by the literature).

I was hoping that Pioneer would break some new ground: perhaps a bit-mapped display on the receiver and more attention to stereo audio for music. They promote the fact that it "works" with iPad, iTunes and iPhone via AirPlay, but the DLNA still only works with a PC. I realize that not a lot of people have these, but I have a standalone CD-R unit and it's not accomodated very well in this receiver. And no coax digital out? Why doesn't it have WiFi built-in like my $160 Blu-ray player does?

This isn't a "new ground" product for Pioneer... if it was, it would be named something other than the SC55/57... it is a progression of their multichannel AVR's...

What else do you want DNLA to work with? Your phone? Just curious...

I am also one that thinks there are so many better solutions for streaming audio that AVR's should concentrate on what they are built to do... while I am infatuated with the integration of Airplay on these AVR's, there are so many dedicated boxes/solutions (which do it better with dedicated hardware for graphics, and more RAM) for cheap, I always think the inclusion of such features a bonus, but nothing more than an "entry level" solution for these type of products...

Since almost no one uses an AVR these days without a networked device attached to it (either computer, Apple TV, Roku, any current Blu Ray player, etc...) I don't begrudge the lack of better networking support.

I don't know why anyone who is serious about audio want WiFi next to your audio circuitry? Once again, they offer solutions for this, and they aren't reasonably expensive.

Outside of a coax digital output (and it does have an optical out) why doesn't this receiver work well with a CD-R? What has changed from the SC37 for your needs (which also does not have a coax digital output?)

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IMO, a "top of the line" product should have virtually no power loss when all channels are driven (not that there isn't enough remaining power). If the amps are discrete, then we're only talking about having a more robust power supply.
I think, especially now that prices are dropping, that I'm going to go with last year's model: the SC37, which also has the (supposed) benefit of having ICE amps.

I've owned the SC09, SC27, SC37 and now the SC57... while all top of the line products, the only flagship in the lot was the SC09... I think the economic state of the world and consumer electronics don't really allow for that kind of market at this point in time (I only think Denon still offers "flagship" products with the 5308 and AVP, and both will soon be feature competitive with their competition..)

I haven't done enough listening yet, but one thing was clear after my brief session last night.. the new amps are no slouch, and I noticed a smoothness that I think was missing from all of the ICE amp products I have used (also including a Wyred 4 Sound amp...)

I simply need a bit more time...

So you can speculate on the "superiority" of the ICE amp (which is, after all, just a branding for a Class D amps used by Pioneer up to this point..)

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For me personally, these receivers (and those from most other manufacturers) have both more and less than what I need. The fact is that the majority of the U.S. population lives in cities and the majority of people who live in cities live in apartments. I've yet to see a high-end receiver that truly gives stereo music audio as much attention as 5.1 and higher movie audio. I don't need zones and I only need one legacy video input.

I don't know what you think is missing for 2 channel music... the line up still includes a pure direct mode... if you are looking for truly balanced stereo inputs, you aren't going to find that in any product close to this price range.

However, it is an Audio Video Receiver... which means it is designed for video sources, which at this point are 5.1 and 7.1.

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I also think this business of pre-labeling inputs (CD, DVR, BD, etc.) is absurd, especially on receivers that have pushbutton input selection or prelabeled remotes. I'd love to see Tom Holman design a modern A/V receiver with the same approach that he designed his Apt-Holman preamp. Simple, but powerful.

I don't think you understand how the inputs and labeling work on these receivers... they are all assignable, and actually among the most flexible I have seen in these products (I've also had a Denon 4311, Yamaha Z11/Z7 and A3000, Onkyo 5008 and Anthem MRX700..) While they are labeled (which can be helpful for non-sophisticated users) they aren't "hard wired."

In addition to the "pre" defined Video 1, BD, DVD, TV/SAT and CD inputs, you have direct access to the HDMI 1-7 inputs... and you can assign HDMI 1 tot DVD, for example... and both the iPad app and Setup menu lets you disable the inputs from showing up... very flexible, IMO.

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Personally, I think one reason why the receiver market is so bad is because the manufacturers are not making products that make sense for modern living. Either they're crappy low-end products or they're for homes with five media rooms. Who wants to feed the same signals throughout the home anyway? People want to watch/listen to different things.

I think the receiver market is doing just fine... if there is anything "bad" about it I only think you have to look no further than the headlines about the world's economy.

Regarding zones... once again, you are mistaken about their implementation on these AVR's...

You can feed different stereo signals to all three zones (and the 57 allows you to amplify zone 2.)

Maybe this isn't the right product for you.. but I don't see why the SC37 would be either....

Just my .02.
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post #17 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 11:46 AM
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Hello,
Speaking of DLNA 1.5 for Phones, I actually have been playing with it as my HTC EVO 3D has it and it shows up on my Onkyo TX-NR3008 as a Server just like my PC's. As every Song I have on my 3D I have on my PC's I do not use it that much, but I must say it is pretty nifty to be able to directly stream Music Files from by Cell Phone to my HT wireless.

And Coaxial and Optical Outputs have become increasingly rare as it allows too pristine of a feed to CD Burners and the lot. In the era of HDMI, the convenience is the Trojan Horse for far stricter encryption.
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ICEpower made a name for itself against many hurdles in the industry and, just as B&O continues to refine their modules, there have been many variations from the technology from other manufacturers which may be the next step.

Basically, I believe in the march of technology providing better solutions, eventually, as class D amps mature. In the digital realm there has been so much work going on in DACs, jitter, processing/filters, that these all take time to integrate well. So I agree that concentrate on making the receiver the best it can be soundwise and provide the capability to accept all the add-on technology.

Yes, these receivers are all built to a price point, class D provides a way to keep and improve sound quality while providing a product that has increasing amounts of add-on technology. The fact is technology is forcing a shakeout in the audio industry. Whether you are a fan of pioneer or not, I think we should hope they succeed. A Denon/Onkyo world only starts to look very constricted.
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Originally Posted by moparfan View Post
ICEpower made a name for itself against many hurdles in the industry and, just as B&O continues to refine their modules, there have been many variations from the technology from other manufacturers which may be the next step.

Basically, I believe in the march of technology providing better solutions, eventually, as class D amps mature. In the digital realm there has been so much work going on in DACs, jitter, processing/filters, that these all take time to integrate well. So I agree that concentrate on making the receiver the best it can be soundwise and provide the capability to accept all the add-on technology.

Yes, these receivers are all built to a price point, class D provides a way to keep and improve sound quality while providing a product that has increasing amounts of add-on technology. The fact is technology is forcing a shakeout in the audio industry. Whether you are a fan of pioneer or not, I think we should hope they succeed. A Denon/Onkyo world only starts to look very constricted.
Hey Everyone,

We are putting together a paper on the new Class D3 amplifiers. Also, a major publication will be publishing an article about the current state of Class D amplifiers in the next couple of months.

I can tell you that while the ICE amps sound great, they needed alot of additional circuitry (Feedback loops, EMI filters, etc) to get the sound where we wanted it to be. These new amps use a totally new design (much more linear) and offer great improvements in THD (SC-37 in 2 Channel Mode 100 Watts .02%) (SC-57 in 2 Channel Mode 100 Watts .003%) and efficiency.

Also, the new SFETs (Mosfets) are surface mounted instead of component mounted which virtually eliminates ringing.

We were able eliminate the Feedback Loops and the EMI filters on the outputs with these new amps as well (Based on the new SFETS and board layout)

I know alot of people don't need 9 Channels in their living room, however I now run a 5.1 system in my living room, Stereo 2 Channel in Zone 2 (Office) and stereo to my rock speakers in my wifes garden as zone 3. All with the SC-57. And I can control all three zones with the Android App.

Sorry if I sound like a marketing guy, just put a lot of time and effort into these new products. Pretty happy with them......


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post #20 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 06:35 PM
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Thank you, Chris, for all of this information regarding the new receivers. I, for one, am very glad about the additional channels and the more linear design. As much as I'm excited for them and their entirely reasonable price, I wonder how you guys were able to reach such a low price without cutting corners. I'm not saying you did, but does having reduced amounts of circuitry components really cut the price as much as it seems to have? Could you disclose where most price reductions came from, or are the reductions just from advances in class D amp technology? Sorry for all of the questions.

P.S. You do sound like a marketing guy, but the type of marketing guy from whom I actually want to buy a product.

Edit: When do you guys reckon Pioneer will have their highest non-flagship models officially 4-ohm certified?

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We were able eliminate the Feedback Loops and the EMI filters on the outputs with these new amps as well (Based on the new SFETS and board layout)

I know alot of people don't need 9 Channels in their living room, however I now run a 5.1 system in my living room, Stereo 2 Channel in Zone 2 (Office) and stereo to my rock speakers in my wifes garden as zone 3. All with the SC-57. And I can control all three zones with the Android App.
Personally i think the SC-55 sounds great - i am not disappointed in the sound at all

same deal here, only 5.1 but with zone 2 in the garage - zone 3 might end up outside - but no rock speakers

control with IPOD or android is great and that was the right direction to go and eliminate the special RF remote

DLNA works fine with my DLNA server built into my router streaming FLAC files. Not sure why anyone thinks they need a PC for a DLNA server. There are apps running on hand held devices that can act as DLNA servers.

Airplay- very nice feature

WiFi? keep that off my receiver please - and no need for blue tooth

More stereo modes? Really, these receivers have so many modes in them it is hard to imagine needing something more.

My only complaint is that it would have been nice to have two fully functioning USB ports, one in back and support NTFS and FLAC through the USB port.
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it reads like he saying, there's less circuitry needed with the new d amps which translates into less components from what I read.
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White papers and other explanations of the technical aspects of the features in the receiver would be much appreciated. In the past, I have gone to the Japanese site for explanations of features - which is partially helpful because google translate isn't perfect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hey Everyone,

We are putting together a paper on the new Class D3 amplifiers. Also, a major publication will be publishing an article about the current state of Class D amplifiers in the next couple of months.

I can tell you that while the ICE amps sound great, they needed alot of additional circuitry (Feedback loops, EMI filters, etc) to get the sound where we wanted it to be. These new amps use a totally new design (much more linear) and offer great improvements in THD (SC-37 in 2 Channel Mode 100 Watts .02%) (SC-57 in 2 Channel Mode 100 Watts .003%) and efficiency.

Also, the new SFETs (Mosfets) are surface mounted instead of component mounted which virtually eliminates ringing.

We were able eliminate the Feedback Loops and the EMI filters on the outputs with these new amps as well (Based on the new SFETS and board layout)

I know alot of people don't need 9 Channels in their living room, however I now run a 5.1 system in my living room, Stereo 2 Channel in Zone 2 (Office) and stereo to my rock speakers in my wifes garden as zone 3. All with the SC-57. And I can control all three zones with the Android App.

Sorry if I sound like a marketing guy, just put a lot of time and effort into these new products. Pretty happy with them......


Chris Walker
Director of Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics
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post #24 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 08:31 PM
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Personally i think the SC-55 sounds great - i am not disappointed in the sound at all

same deal here, only 5.1 but with zone 2 in the garage - zone 3 might end up outside - but no rock speakers

control with IPOD or android is great and that was the right direction to go and eliminate the special RF remote

DLNA works fine with my DLNA server built into my router streaming FLAC files. Not sure why anyone thinks they need a PC for a DLNA server. There are apps running on hand held devices that can act as DLNA servers.

Airplay- very nice feature

WiFi? keep that off my receiver please - and no need for blue tooth

More stereo modes? Really, these receivers have so many modes in them it is hard to imagine needing something more.

My only complaint is that it would have been nice to have two fully functioning USB ports, one in back and support NTFS and FLAC through the USB port.

I understand your complaint. Supporting NTFS is very difficult since our receivers run a unique operating system (Not linux or windows).

Believe it or not I am now working on next years models. Please feel free to make any requests...

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post #25 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Believe it or not I am now working on next years models. Please feel free to make any requests...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

On screen display for volume, dialog norm, codec, listening modes, etc.....

That's been my only real complaint of the SC lineup... I have owned the 09, 27, 37 and now the 57.

Sub EQ integration into MCACC.

Btw.. Loving the 57 so far.

I have a request for the iControl app, since you offered.

A cursor and enter button would be nice, along with home menu access.

More information on the status page like dialog norm setting and input channel count (I see the speakers light up, but something like Dolby Digital 3/2/.1, dialog norm + 4. would be great.)

And a drop down menu for surround mode selection via the control/home page, instead of clicking until you find what you are looking for.
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post #26 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Thank you, Chris, for all of this information regarding the new receivers. I, for one, am very glad about the additional channels and the more linear design. As much as I'm excited for them and their entirely reasonable price, I wonder how you guys were able to reach such a low price without cutting corners. I'm not saying you did, but does having reduced amounts of circuitry components really cut the price as much as it seems to have? Could you disclose where most price reductions came from, or are the reductions just from advances in class D amp technology? Sorry for all of the questions.

P.S. You do sound like a marketing guy, but the type of marketing guy from whom I actually want to buy a product.

Edit: When do you guys reckon Pioneer will have their highest non-flagship models officially 4-ohm certified?

By completely designing these new Class D3 amps in-house we were able to produce more power, better sound quality (My opinion) and better efficiency all while enjoying a cost benefit . The ICE based amps were expensive. Also, switching to a brushed aluminum finish helped the price as well, while giving a fresh look to the Elite Line (Matches the new BD players and new Elite TVs from Sharp). We also removed the RF remote since the Android/iPhone remote offer much better functionality.

One additional thing you will notice is how cool the receiver runs.

We did some internal testing where we took an SC-37, SC-57, and competitors $2100 receiver and set the volume to -10db and played an entire BD movie (hooked up to 8 ohm loads) and measured the amount of watt hours consumed. We had a 25% reduction from the SC-37 to the SC-57 and a 46% reduction compared to the 3rd party. The new amps are extremely efficient

I have been using the 57 for the past couple of months and have come to love it. I love being able to push a high res flac file from my phone to the receiver.

I will see if I can post some pics of the two different amplifier modules later on.

Thanks,

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post #27 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

On screen display for volume, dialog norm, codec, listening modes, etc.....

That's been my only real complaint of the SC lineup... I have owned the 09, 27, 37 and now the 57.

Sub EQ integration into MCACC.

Btw.. Loving the 57 so far.

I have a request for the iControl app, since you offered.

A cursor and enter button would be nice, along with home menu access.

More information on the status page like dialog norm setting and input channel count (I see the speakers light up, but something like Dolby Digital 3/2/.1, dialog norm + 4. would be great.)

And a drop down menu for surround mode selection via the control/home page, instead of clicking until you find what you are looking for.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I will add the ones that I did not already have on my list.

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Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I will add the ones that I did not already have on my list.

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How about independenf crossover points for mains, center, and the surrounds? That way we can use the recommended crossovers that mfrs suggest without having to compromise SQ.

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post #29 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 09:29 PM
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How about independenf crossover points for mains, center, and the surrounds? That way we can use the recommended crossovers that mfrs suggest without having to compromise SQ.

We have already requested this feature as well. I will place an emphasis on this feature. Of course I cannot guarantee anything. Many factors in place.

Thanks,

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post #30 of 3997 Old 08-08-2011, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


By completely designing these new Class D3 amps in-house we were able to produce more power, better sound quality (My opinion) and better efficiency all while enjoying a cost benefit . The ICE based amps were expensive. Also, switching to a brushed aluminum finish helped the price as well, while giving a fresh look to the Elite Line (Matches the new BD players and new Elite TVs from Sharp). We also removed the RF remote since the Android/iPhone remote offer much better functionality.

I'm really glad to hear all of this. After being concerned about the departure from the iceamps, I'd say most of our fears are somewhat lessened. I really like the new look (unfortunately it won't match my relatively old 151 and bdp-05 once I hook it up), and, although the rf remote was fantastic, I understand the deviation very well.

Quote:


One additional thing you will notice is how cool the receiver runs.

We did some internal testing where we took an SC-37, SC-57, and competitors $2100 receiver and set the volume to -10db and played an entire BD movie (hooked up to 8 ohm loads) and measured the amount of watt hours consumed. We had a 25% reduction from the SC-37 to the SC-57 and a 46% reduction compared to the 3rd party. The new amps are extremely efficient

That's interesting; I always though the 35 ran pretty cool.

Quote:


I have been using the 57 for the past couple of months and have come to love it. I love being able to push a high res flac file from my phone to the receiver.

That's completely unfair to us.

What do you say about running 4 ohm speakers on the 57; I know at least dating back to the vsx-94txh and continuing today, with the exception of the sc-09, Pioneer has not officially supported running 4 ohm speakers. That said, myself and many others have run 4 ohm loads without a hitch. Is there any chance of the next model being "officially" capable of running 4ohm speakers. That, along with a usable OSD for volume, etc., are my only features I'd like for the future.

Thanks

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