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post #1081 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozehound21 View Post

Thank you for the info Adz.

CELee- Do you have both HDMI and 5.1 analog outputs from your BDP-95 connected to your AV7005? I'd be curious what differences you hear running it HDMI vs 5.1 analogs. Of course you'd have to defeat the Audyssey and level match to get a good reading on that. I'd also like to know your take on 80.3 vs 7005 sound quality if you put the 80.3 in your system. Best wishes on the adventure!

I have both hdmi and 7.1 analog running from the Oppo to the Marantz. yes there's a difference between the two, very obvious.

The vocal on the sabre dac is with the instruments, so basically all on the stage, this you will notice immediately. I'm not sure, but I think the high's are better on the Oppo, but that could just be wishful thinking on my part.


On the marantaz, the vocal is right in your face. Up front, just as he/she is singing right in front of you. Now, maybe that is affecting the highs, as I might be concentrated on the vocal and losing the background music.

I'm not sure which I prefer, and I'm hoping of i decide to go with the the onkyo, that I can sell my Oppo and downgrade to the 93.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Based on my many experiments with Denon AVRs (currently AVR A!00/4311)and the OppBDP83SE, I predict you'll find that your most significant SQ improvements will be from XT32. If you don't have a second sub, get one and do a modified sub crawl (I call it a sub haul) to get smoothest bass. The pro kit calibration adds more SQ refinement and customizability. Of course room treatments are also recommended but are more complex and intrusive.

But at this level of equipment the DACs are all pretty darn good! I sold the 83SE as the fancy DACs made no difference. The Oppo95 (like the 83SE) costs more than the standard model and is intended for analog purists and for folks, unlike you and I, who don't have HDMI-equipped processors with DSPRC.

The sub crawl was pretty useless, hence the reason I'm throwing in the submersive on the riser and keeping the pb13 on the floor. This should solve my null sport on the riser. I guess you are right that at this level of equipment, it's the same but different presentation from each.
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post #1082 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CElee View Post

Hi Guys,
i'm serious looking at adding the 80.3 to my rack. But I have a question for a few of you who might have had the same equipment I have and what improvements have you heard? I know for one that I will benefit from the XT32, since I will be adding a second sub to my room.

Currently own AV7005, It does everything i want, but i feel the sound is too laid back when playing music. Even movies and bluray music videos, all seem that they are lacking something, i just don't know what.

I also own a Oppo BDP-95. How do you compare the Integra sound vs. the Sabre Dacs in this unit?

Thanks
Tom

I owned a Marantz AV7005 and laid back is exactly how I described it, in some cases just boring. I had a Onkyo 886P at the time to compare and even though the Marantz was better musically for Jazz and light music the Onkyo just killed it in dynamics and bass, especially for movies. I now have the Onkyo 5508 and music is a big improvement over the 886 while maintaining the dynamic movie presentation.

Musically the Marantz excelled at smooth jazz and easy listening music but lacked pop for Rock and more up tempo music. The 5508 doesn't have that same problem but does have a more forward sound, not bright but you could say more detailed.

I have always preferred detail and dynamics over a laid back sound so it just depends on preference. Sounds like you prefer the same so I think the Integra 80.3 would be a wise choice for you.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #1083 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I owned a Marantz AV7005 and laid back is exactly how I described it, in some cases just boring. I had a Onkyo 886P at the time to compare and even though the Marantz was better musically for Jazz and light music the Onkyo just killed it in dynamics and bass, especially for movies. I now have the Onkyo 5508 and music is a big improvement over the 886 while maintaining the dynamic movie presentation.

Musically the Marantz excelled at smooth jazz and easy listening music but lacked pop for Rock and more up tempo music. The 5508 doesn't have that same problem but does have a more forward sound, not bright but you could say more detailed.

I have always preferred detail and dynamics over a laid back sound so it just depends on preference. Sounds like you prefer the same so I think the Integra 80.3 would be a wise choice for you.


Boring is exactly the description I will agree on. Thanks, answers a big concern about the AV7005 that I've had. I've been pulling out my hair on why it doesn't have that forward, here I am sort of sound that I remember way back in the SR6300,7300 days (warm, detailed, musical). Maybe that was so far in the past I couldn't remember.
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post #1084 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I run a 25 foot monoprice cable to my panny 7000 projector and it works fine. I had a 30 footer in there before that and it worked fine also. Think your dealer is full of it.

In this case, I hope so! I'll report back shortly
U have the 80.X?

Adz
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post #1085 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

In this case, I hope so! I'll report back shortly
U have the 80.X?

I ran a 50 footer Monoprice HDMI without issue before I moved my set-up

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post #1086 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 05:37 PM
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Glad to know you Canadians got the long cables running without issues. That was also a concern.
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post #1087 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 05:56 PM
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CElee, appreciate your thoughts. I was totally surprised by what I hard comparing the 83NE to the UD9004 using analog outs for both. Everyone I had over here heard the difference in clarity and "alivesness" between those two players in stereo SACD. Including many who's primary exposure to music was MP3. Until they were invited over

Does anyone know what sample rate and bit depth the 80.3 uses to convert analog in to digital? I didn't see anything published. Everyone is so keen on the Audyssey that I wonder if digitizing input from a turntable would be worth it for the room correction. If I had one here I'd use a function generator to apply increasingly high frequency to an analog in to determine the point at which the output of the unit began to fall off. If it does at least 24/96 I would expect good results. But if incoming analog signals are limited to something like a 44.1 sample rate I would expect that to be pretty detrimental to a high quality turntable setup. I'm leaning toward picking one these units up although I'm curious what the new Aragon Soundstage II will have to offer.
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post #1088 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 06:02 PM
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Why redigitize? Why not just use the HDMI?

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #1089 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 06:25 PM
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Hi Kal,

First, thanks for your professional work. If the question of redigitizing was directed at my post it is because I'm referring to using the analog inputs for a turntable with an outboard phono preamp. I wonder how good the 80.3 phono input is. Does anyone use it?
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post #1090 of 4277 Old 02-12-2012, 06:42 PM
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Is anyone controlling their 80.3 over ip by some controller (bitwise, creston Control4 etc) not iphone/ipad

Integra sent me over the XL file containing protocols for transmission of commands but I can not seem to get it to work. I think the problem if with the header. If someone is familiar with this RS-232 and Ip control stuff can you pm me with a little help. I can enter it multiple ways (ascii /hex/ ascii with hex end)


Thanks in advance,

Peter
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post #1091 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosano View Post

...I have 2 LFE subs in my set up....1 in the front and one in the back of the room.In opposite corners. This is handled by a Signature 15 sub and Fathom 113 for front and back LFE. 2 Paradigms Seismic 12s for L/R bass. These are located in the middle of the side walls.

I agree with GPBURNS that XT32 should yield great bass. One thing folks overlook is that in addition to 2 separate sub outs, XT32 focuses considerable EQ power on the freqs above the xover and below the Schroeder FReq in the sat channels.

The thing is, though it pings SW1 and SW2 separately for level and distance, it EQs all subs together take into account that is how they fire and thus they interact with each other and the room. So I'd post this question on the Audyssey thread for suggestions as there's several posters there in the "more than 2 subs" category with Audyssey experience.

My first thought is that I'd need to do some "sub haul" measurements with REW or OmniMic to find the spots for smoothest bass without any EQ engaged. Just for kicks I'd probably try mismatched subs (one Seismic with one of your other subs) collocated midwall on 2 opposite sidewalls if practical.

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post #1092 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 10:21 AM
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I'm running 4-Subs. so it will be interesting how this works out.

4-Mirage BPS-400 Subs.

I'm looking forward to seeing what takes place when they do the set-up and run the Audyssey XT32.

Of course none of this is going to take place right now because the Integra DHC-80.3 is still back ordered.

Terry
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post #1093 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 11:19 AM
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I was just about to order the INtegra until i read the other thread that the PR-SC5509 will be available hopefully in Q2? I'd rather wait as I'm not a fan of that Integra face.
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post #1094 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 02:14 PM
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What you seen in the other thread, was only a unsupported rumor. There has been no official announcement by Onkyo that it will become available here at all, let alone by Q2. I would not hold my breath on the 5509 becoming available in the US.
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post #1095 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 03:37 PM
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Does the 80.3 run extremely hot like the 80.1 I currently use? I use mine in a closet with fans and ventilation. Despite this the 80.1 gets very, very hot.
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post #1096 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozehound21 View Post

Hi Kal,

First, thanks for your professional work. If the question of redigitizing was directed at my post it is because I'm referring to using the analog inputs for a turntable with an outboard phono preamp. I wonder how good the 80.3 phono input is. Does anyone use it?

I use the phono input from a Studer/Revox turntable with a Grado cartridge and to my ears it sounds good, but when run throught audyssey xt32, it sounds better as my room acoustics is very poor.
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post #1097 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

In this case, I hope so! I'll report back shortly
U have the 80.X?

Yes the 80.3. The 25 footer was the 24 gauge and the 30 footer is my current cable and 22 gauge pro high speed version. I have over 20 monoprice hdmi's in my house and I've naver had a problem with 1 before. Actually, I've never had an issue with anything I've ever bought from monoprice.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #1098 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 04:31 PM
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Mlknez, thank you for sharing your experience. I suspect that the 80.3 digitizes incoming analogs at 24/96 but while the sample frequency is easy to test, testing the bit depth is another matter. The bottom line test is that it sounds good. What's making the decision to buy the 80.3 difficult is the firmware not supporting the Audyssey Pro yet and the few reviews I've seen around various places bashing the unit for harsh treble and sibilance. The Denon/Marantz products seem to be at the other extreme with people describing them as laid back and dead in some cases.

I'd like to hear a subjective description of sound quality from anyone and especially Kal who's spent a lot of time with both the 7005 and the 80.3. Is the 7005 that laid back? Is the 80.3 too harsh? I certainly found the SACD section of a Marantz UD9004 to be lacking. The 80.3 is a special order item so it's not like you can listen to it for a few weeks and return it if unsatisfied.
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post #1099 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 06:00 PM
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I don't want to speak for Kal but I have seen him mention that he uses a Integra 80.2 in one of his systems.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #1100 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 06:06 PM
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^ +1, I'm also interested in more details about the sound quality. I've owned Audio Research, Counterpoint, Lex, and Sunfire preamps so in the back of my mind I'm afraid of getting a "japanese receiver" type of sound from the 80.3. Tell me I'm way off base! Thanks.
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post #1101 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tme_2_Ride View Post

^ +1, I'm also interested in more details about the sound quality. I've owned Audio Research, Counterpoint, Lex, and Sunfire preamps so in the back of my mind I'm afraid of getting a "japanese receiver" type of sound from the 80.3. Tell me I'm way off base! Thanks.

I have owned the Proceed AVP2, Meridian G68, Halcro SSP-200, EAD TM 8800Pro, ADA pre-pro pro's prior to the latest HDMI models and a bunch more. I am not going to say the Onkyo 5508 (same as Integra 80.2) is as good musically as the Proceed AVP2 or as good over all than the Halcro SSP-200 but it's a lot closer than the sensible price would leave you to believe.

Your way off base

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post #1102 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 06:19 PM
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Thanks MJ, it does sound like it's closer than i would have thought.....I wasn't trying to name drop with that list but just stuff i've owned over the years and the kind of sound i'm used to. But, the unfortunate truth is I watch more movies/sports now! Back in the day, i didn't even own a TV, all i had was audio gear.
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post #1103 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tme_2_Ride View Post

Thanks MJ, it does sound like it's closer than i would have thought.....I wasn't trying to name drop with that list but just stuff i've owned over the years and the kind of sound i'm used to. But, the unfortunate truth is I watch more movies/sports now! Back in the day, i didn't even own a TV, all i had was audio gear.

I wasn't trying to name drop either, just wanted to give you an idea of what I owned in the past. I have to admit though, I still miss that Halcro, too bad they were so unreliable.

We are in the same boat, I don't have the time like I used to for music, mainly movies and sports as well. Doesn't mean I haven't listened to music with the Onkyo 5508 though and it's actually pretty good. I did something I hadn't done in years after selling my Halcro. I went to demo some music on the 5508 and wound up listening to the entire disc, I actually listened to more music that night than I had in a long time.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #1104 of 4277 Old 02-13-2012, 10:34 PM
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Thank you for your candor MJ. I hope the new processor matches or exceeds the performance of my Soundstage so that I can just connect it directly to the amps and get the SS out of the system. But I'm thinking in terms of either building an XLR switch or just sending the output of the new proc through the 5.1 inputs of the SS and leaving it in the system for analog only material. Analog preamp technology is nothing new. The electronic components required to make it happen are cheap enough that I'd hope a piece like the 80.3 would have them. But it is certainly cheaper to throw a high quality op amp in as the final stage output. And of course the hobby is the relentless pursuit of improvement. I'm also considering a 4311 as it also has the XT32 and HDCD and HD radio built in. I've heard some very nice sounding Marantz equipment. But I've also hear some that wasn't so great.
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post #1105 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozehound21 View Post

Mlknez, thank you for sharing your experience. I suspect that the 80.3 digitizes incoming analogs at 24/96 but while the sample frequency is easy to test, testing the bit depth is another matter. The bottom line test is that it sounds good. What's making the decision to buy the 80.3 difficult is the firmware not supporting the Audyssey Pro yet and the few reviews I've seen around various places bashing the unit for harsh treble and sibilance. The Denon/Marantz products seem to be at the other extreme with people describing them as laid back and dead in some cases.

I'd like to hear a subjective description of sound quality from anyone and especially Kal who's spent a lot of time with both the 7005 and the 80.3. Is the 7005 that laid back? Is the 80.3 too harsh? I certainly found the SACD section of a Marantz UD9004 to be lacking. The 80.3 is a special order item so it's not like you can listen to it for a few weeks and return it if unsatisfied.

Do you have a link to the reviews that refer to harshness and sibilance? It's not what I am finding with my 5509 by any means.
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post #1106 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tme_2_Ride View Post

^ +1, I'm also interested in more details about the sound quality. I've owned Audio Research, Counterpoint, Lex, and Sunfire preamps so in the back of my mind I'm afraid of getting a "japanese receiver" type of sound from the 80.3. Tell me I'm way off base! Thanks.

My 5509 is what I would describe as neutral. I am an experienced listener with decades of experience in using very high end stereo equipment in the past. Lesser Onkyos can sound bright and forward, but not what I would call harsh and certainly not sibilant which I couldn't tolerate at all. But the flagship Onkyos have a neutral but dynamic presentation IMO.
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post #1107 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozehound21 View Post

... What's making the decision to buy the 80.3 difficult is the firmware not supporting the Audyssey Pro yet and the few reviews I've seen around various places bashing the unit for harsh treble and sibilance. The Denon/Marantz products seem to be at the other extreme with people describing them as laid back and dead in some cases.
I'd like to hear a subjective description of sound quality from anyone and especially Kal who's spent a lot of time with both the 7005 and the 80.3. Is the 7005 that laid back? Is the 80.3 too harsh?...

Yes, Kal is a great source of info. If the 80.3 is a special order item that you've never heard, I can understand your having some trepidation. The descriptor "harsh" suggests to me distortion, which I seriously doubt a functioning 80.3 would produce to an audible degree. Or perhaps simply too much treble? I'd be surprised if the 80.3 produced anything other than neutral and accurate sound once properly calibrated. Such a report is more likely due to the poster having messed up Audyssey/Autosetup or being too used to the way the system/room sounded before XT32.

I'm not aware of one credible report that would cause me to think there's really problematic coloration, or other significant SQ difference for that matter, between any of several very nice processors (i.e., 80.2/3 5008/9 and 4311/A100) frequently being comparison shopped. To the contrary, reports from sources I trust lead me to expect that they all have excellent, neutral SQ and sound far more alike than different. One such source who knows what to listen for and has actually had the chance to compare some of these models is FilmMixer. If I understand his posts, he indicates that the ones he's had, including the 5009 and 4311, sounded quite similar and quite good. See this post, for ex.

I can assure you my A100 is indeed lively (dynamic, realistic) and in no way dull. The exc SQ from XT32 is further enhanced with Audyssey Pro which adds yet tighter/punchier bass and yet more detail, precise imaging, realism and envelopement to the surround bubble. What makes that particular model such a value purchase is that for around $2K, you can have the AVR from an authorized e-reseller, the Pro kit and a license and of course it comes with 9 quite decent amps (it's 11.2 capable with 2 ext amp channels). BTW, the Pro kit also allows you to tweak the curves to your preference.

edit: I now see Keith's post above and he is one of my "trusted sources".

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post #1108 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 05:29 AM
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I have a close cousin to this processor, the 5508, and it certainly is not sibilant or harsh. It is the most neutral component I've owned.
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post #1109 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tme_2_Ride View Post

^ +1, I'm also interested in more details about the sound quality. I've owned Audio Research, Counterpoint, Lex, and Sunfire preamps so in the back of my mind I'm afraid of getting a "japanese receiver" type of sound from the 80.3. Tell me I'm way off base! Thanks.

Ok, you are way off base. That did not happen when a 9.8 replaced a Levinson 380S line stage in my system. And, it got even better on the 80.2 with XT/32. I have said it before, but I would not do an even up swap for an Anthem D2V, if I had to live with it and not resell it. My frame of reference is the many live classical concerts I attend and the many Anthem systems I have heard.
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post #1110 of 4277 Old 02-14-2012, 10:27 AM
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Thanks to all who replied. This forum is great! All of us spend a good bit of cash on our hobby. A discussion area like this is a major part of making informed buying decisions. Two of the poor reviews I saw were at http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580PRS5...er-reviews-tab

Those of you who emphatically disagreed with those reviewers- thanks for speaking up. I note that those two at Crutchfield didn't identify the other equipment in their systems as people here have. The comments I see on this board frequently include context such as other equipment in use and comparison with competing gear. It's greatly appreciated.

All my questions about these processors stem from not wanting to compromise. Some people think my system is crazy with two seven foot tall equipment racks and a smallish room completely dominated by B&W towers at the corners and a matching center. Had to put the sub amps on the other side of the main/tv wall as there was no more space and we couldn't tolerate any more heat in the summer. I'm particular about what goes in the system and appreciate the input from so many who have obviously invested substantial time and treasure in their systems.
Boozehound21 is offline  
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