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post #1981 of 4290 Old 04-03-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Hi Keith and njfoses, I can confirm your findings regarding the warmer colour temperature. So, it seems it is also affecting the DHC 80.3.
We should get Kris Deering in on this, as he was the main reviewer at HT magazine for the DHC 80.3.....he of all people should have a contact person at Onkyo/Integra.

Paul

Agreed Paul. Do you know how to contact Kris Deering? Does he post here? If so, what's his screen name? It would be interesting to get to the bottom of this.


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post #1982 of 4290 Old 04-03-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I second all that - especially think a thread for it is a good idea. njfoses - you up for it?

Today is more of an anomaly as i generally do not have a ton of time to spend on avs every day. Kbarnes, you are more than welcome to start a new thread and take the lead if you like. I will contribute when i can.
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post #1983 of 4290 Old 04-03-2012, 11:04 PM
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Gents, for playing SACD or DVD Audio, do you connect the analog outs of the player to the 80.3?
If so, is there a way to bypass the Audyssey and have the raw signal playback through the Integra?
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post #1984 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

I have reported the issue to a member here that i believe has a working relationship with Onkyo. See what happens.

The member i messaged responded that he will look into the issue with Onkyo so at least the ball is starting to roll.
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post #1985 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Gents, for playing SACD or DVD Audio, do you connect the analog outs of the player to the 80.3?
If so, is there a way to bypass the Audyssey and have the raw signal playback through the Integra?

This has recently been discussed at some length. Have a look back a few pages. Most 80.3 owners here prefer to use HDMI and to have the benefits of Audyssey XT32, which they feel far outweighs any benefits which may be derived from using different DACs. If you connect analogue to analogue, you will bypass Audyssey.

EDIT: As Fitzcaraldo rightly points out below, you can, of course, turn Audyssey off no matter how you connect!


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post #1986 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

The member i messaged responded that he will look into the issue with Onkyo so at least the ball is starting to roll.

Good news. Thanks. (Ordered my CalMAN software and Colorimeter today).


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post #1987 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Gents, for playing SACD or DVD Audio, do you connect the analog outs of the player to the 80.3?
If so, is there a way to bypass the Audyssey and have the raw signal playback through the Integra?

Just to clarify Kbarnes response, Mch analog into the prepro is always without Audyssey or any DSP processing. HDMI is the only way to do Mch with Audyssey. But, via HDMI, you can turn off Audyssey separately, or bypass all DSP processing including bass management and distance correction using Direct sound mode. Distance correction and bass management can be applied by the player, if it supports that, prior to analog conversion. But, player versions of these features are normally rudimentary.

On stereo analog inputs - unbalanced or XLR - you may elect to have the prepro convert the input to digital and apply Audyssey, etc. by using the Stereo sound mode. Or, you can bypass that, again using the Direct sound mode. I expect that the a-d conversion causes some sonic degradation, negating many benefits of a superior DAC in the player, though some Oppo 95 owners seem to dispute this. That is not what I hear, though.

For me, it is no contest. I use straight HDMI for everything because that is how it sounds best to me, particularly with XT/32. I am not, but if you are a fanatic about HDMI jitter, you can also use digital coax or Ethernet into the prepro for stereo.
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post #1988 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 07:14 AM
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post #1989 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Just to clarify Kbarnes response,

Thanks Fitz... I have edited my earlier response, which on re-reading, was less than clear.

This question comes up repeatedly. It is a 'sort of' Audyssey issue because usually the poster wants to go via a route that will end up, one way or the other, with Audyssey bypassed. I wonder if it is a suitable question for the Audyssey FAQ so that it could be nailed once and for all and future posters simply referred to the relevant FAQ question? If people feel it is, then I would need help in drafting both the question and the answer - I am firmly committed to HDMI and Audyssey as the best route, and I don't (currently) even use my HT and 5509 for music (in any serious way - Internet Radio excepted, for background music).


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post #1990 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Agreed Paul. Do you know how to contact Kris Deering? Does he post here? If so, what's his screen name? It would be interesting to get to the bottom of this.

Kris Deering has posted here many times.....his AVS name is [Kris Deering]. I'll send him a PM and see how he responds.

Paul
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post #1991 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Kris Deering has posted here many times.....his AVS name is [Kris Deering]. I'll send him a PM and see how he responds.

Paul

Excellent. It's a weird little issue, and not a huge problem, but it would be good to get to the bottom of it.


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post #1992 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 10:24 AM
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I sent Integra/Onkyo a detail description of njfoses discovery as well as Kirs Deering's report. I was able to get fairly high in management. I'll wait and see what happens. Any issue with a processor at this price point should be resolved.
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post #1993 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 11:00 AM
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^^ Agreed, considering the price of this unit.......Although, I personally do not use the "through" option in the [Picture Adjust] menu settings, I am sure there are many who do, and I would like to have peace of mind knowing that the 80.3 is working as it should be.
Regardless, I hope Integra/Onkyo get this resolved.

I have sent Kris Deering a PM. I hope he responds soon.

Paul
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post #1994 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 11:05 AM
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I got Paul's PM on this and have been following this thread for the last few weeks. I am aware of the issue and actually got a 80.3 in yesterday so I will look at it (and another issue that someone else has reported to me) and see what I find. I will also make sure I forward the data to one of the Integra engineers I've worked with in the past so that they are aware of it. Great find guys!

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity


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post #1995 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 02:17 PM
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Couple of question for DHC 80.3 owners: (the manual is not clear on this)

Are the 12 volt inputs assignable by source input? Is it possible to have one 12 volt trigger (A) activate when I am in 2 channel music and another 12 volt trigger (B) activate during blu-ray playback?

I have powered mains and center channel (which have 12 volt triggers) and I don't want the center channel to come on when it is not needed.

If the receiver cannot do this, I can solve this problem with a small Xantech device that will activate a 12 volt trigger based on whether a signal is present.

Question #2: when you put the speaker in bi-amp mode, can you equalize the high and low end signal separately within Audyssey? Or, are the bi-amp signals equivalent essentially with no individual control?

Question #3: If the main speakers and front wide speakers are very different, will overall sound be better with a 7.2 setup instead of 9.2? After setting my main speakers which are massive Avantgarde Duo Omega Horns, I don't want to ruin the soundstage which is AMAZING as is... I currently have 11.2 speakers installed but I wasn't expecting to put horns as my center and mains when I installed the planar in-wall planar line source speakers. I am deciding whether to wait for the next denon with pre-outs for 11.2 or to go ahead and go for an 7.2 (biamp) or 9.2 setup with the ONkyo DHC 80.3. My main fear is that front-wides and front highs will ruin the sound of an already holographic soundstage.

Blazar!
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post #1996 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Excellent. It's a weird little issue, and not a huge problem, but it would be good to get to the bottom of it.

Keith, ... I will have to check mine now I guess and see if there is a difference in the way I have it set.
(Warmer image)

I'm wondering how I can set it up "Now" where that condition does not exist and I won't have Hand-Shake issues between components

In my case if you reply or someone else I Need/Request Pics of the screens and "Step by Step" instructions.

Mine looks just fine to me but then again I have not been looking for any sort of difference since I set it to "Through" versus "Direct".

I cannot use "Direct".

Terry

My "New" Home Theatre Pics 3/22/2012.

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post #1997 of 4290 Old 04-04-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Tango View Post

I sent Integra/Onkyo a detail description of njfoses discovery as well as Kirs Deering's report. I was able to get fairly high in management. I'll wait and see what happens. Any issue with a processor at this price point should be resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I got Paul's PM on this and have been following this thread for the last few weeks. I am aware of the issue and actually got a 80.3 in yesterday so I will look at it (and another issue that someone else has reported to me) and see what I find. I will also make sure I forward the data to one of the Integra engineers I've worked with in the past so that they are aware of it. Great find guys!

Thanks for reporting the issue i appreciate it!
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post #1998 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good news. Thanks. (Ordered my CalMAN software and Colorimeter today).

Holy crap...was it this one?? If not, I'd be interested to know what you bought?
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post #1999 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 12:22 PM
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Is there anybody here that does NOT use Audsyssey for movies?

Is there a night and day difference? Does it sound compressed when you have the Audyssey on?
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post #2000 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I got Paul's PM on this and have been following this thread for the last few weeks. I am aware of the issue and actually got a 80.3 in yesterday so I will look at it (and another issue that someone else has reported to me) and see what I find. I will also make sure I forward the data to one of the Integra engineers I've worked with in the past so that they are aware of it. Great find guys!

Thanks Kris!


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post #2001 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

Keith, ... I will have to check mine now I guess and see if there is a difference in the way I have it set.
(Warmer image)

I'm wondering how I can set it up "Now" where that condition does not exist and I won't have Hand-Shake issues between components

In my case if you reply or someone else I Need/Request Pics of the screens and "Step by Step" instructions.

Mine looks just fine to me but then again I have not been looking for any sort of difference since I set it to "Through" versus "Direct".

I cannot use "Direct".



Terry

Hi Terry.

Yes you can test it without using Direct mode. Make sure you have Source set in the Input Outut Assign menu. I think you do already.

Then go to Source Settings menu and go to Picture Adjust. On the Resolution setting, move through the settings until you get to 'Custom'. In that section make sure all the settings are at default but set Res to THROUGH. Back out of the menus.

Now put on a disc and find a screen with a fair bit of white content on it. Pause the disc at that screen.

Then go into the Home menu on the remote and click down to Video. There you will see that you can now switch modes from Through to Direct, Custom etc. What you need to do is first select Through and note the colour of the white part of the image. Then scroll along to Custom (where you also set Through, so it should stay the same) and you will see the white area of the image go whiter. IOW, the colour balance will go from warmer to cooler.

Custom is passing it correctly (as is Direct) and Through is giving a warm bias.

If you see the difference and you want to stay with the 'purer' white colour balance, simply select Custom in Picture Adjust for that source for future use. Make sure you have all the other bits of the custom setting set appropriately (probably all defaults).

Let me know how you get on. I'd guess this is something Onkyo can fix with a FW update once they acknowledge the issue.

EDIT: you may prefer the warmer balance of course. That's why screens etc have colour balance settings. But if your display has been calibrated, and I am guessing it has, then you will want it to be spot on I'd think. I mentioned before that I preferred the warmer tone, but I was using Hugo as a test disc and that has a lovely golden cast over much of the photography in the film and the Through setting enhanced it. I have since made sure I am using Direct for all relevant sources.


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post #2002 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Is there anybody here that does NOT use Audsyssey for movies?

Is there a night and day difference? Does it sound compressed when you have the Audyssey on?

The difference is remarkable. Audyssey MultEQ does nothing that could make the sound sound compressed.


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post #2003 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Holy crap...was it this one?? If not, I'd be interested to know what you bought?

LOL. No, it was the rather more affordable (aka cheaper):

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...i1display.html

I thought I'd start at the bottom....


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post #2004 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The difference is remarkable. Audyssey MultEQ does nothing that could make the sound sound compressed.

This I don't agree with. High Sensitivity speakers can sometimes be a problem with audyssey. My JTR stuff sounds much more dynamic without audyssey on. The pro calibration seems to have brought back some of the lost dynamics but it most surely is lost.
The difference is not remarkable in all situations. I've done 16 pro calibrations so far and not all of them sounded much if any better than what the user had done on his own.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #2005 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

This I don't agree with. High Sensitivity speakers can sometimes be a problem with audyssey. My JTR stuff sounds much more dynamic without audyssey on. The pro calibration seems to have brought back some of the lost dynamics but it most surely is lost.
The difference is not remarkable in all situations. I've done 16 pro calibrations so far and not all of them sounded much if any better than what the user had done on his own.

What is it about the way that MultEQ works that makes you believe it introduces compression?


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post #2006 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What is it about the way that MultEQ works that makes you believe it introduces compression?

It was the "the difference is remarkable" that I don't jive with mostly. Just from my own experiences, I would say if someone has the room properly setup up and treated, there is no huge difference in sound as long as they have any understanding how to do basic EQ. I would say that going from bone stock and changing nothing, to audyssey would probably make a huge difference, I'd doubt that is going to be the case for most of us on here anyways.

My JTR stuff just looses it's edge with audyssey, not to say that out weights the benefits that it gives but it looses it's in your face attitude that I love so much. It's just my preference. I did a guys system about 2 weeks ago, full sim audio setup and Danely speakers. We did the audyssey pro setup and he hated it lol. He still paid me but I was with him, audyssey took the life right out of his system. Though I must say, it was by far the best HT I've ever been in. Amazing!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #2007 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Is there anybody here that does NOT use Audsyssey for movies?

Is there a night and day difference? Does it sound compressed when you have the Audyssey on?

Contrary to another opinion here, to me Audyssey makes a night/day difference. The sound is actually more compressed and non- dynamic with it off, owing to the effects of room-induced peaks/nulls, which it largely cures. That, and the time domain EQ, which Audyssey is built upon. I use it for EVERYTHING, and my listening is slanted about 90/10 toward music, primarily Mch classical. I consider it one of the greatest breakthroughs in recent audio history, and I would never be without it. The application of Audyssey is essentially transparent, except for the sonic benefits it provides in the frequency and time domains.

I have done 4 rooms with it, mostly for concert-going audiophiles like me. In each case, the improvement with EQ vs. without was huge and a not-even-close no brainer on switching it in and out.

There are, of course, those who have a sonic preference wired into their heads for some distinctive sound. I admit I do, as do my audiophile friends, and it is for sound that maximally approaches the sound of the live concert experience. No system I have ever heard, we all agree on this, at any price does that as well as a properly EQ'ed system. Others may have a different preference, as is their prerogative, and Audyssey may not provide that, whatever it is.

Some mention room treatments as an alternative. I am certainly not against that if it is expertly done with comprehensive measurements. But, that is really hard to do properly and accurately, especially for a lay person without adequate instrumentation and know-how. Room acoustics is very, very tricky. Not much, if any, off the shelf treatments really address room modal issues below 100Hz or so, as this requires huge, space-consuming sound absorbing structures. It is not an undertaking with any guarantees of success, and I have heard a fair number of DIY treated rooms that were really sub par and were not worth the effort. I also suspect that many even properly treated rooms could be further improved by Audyssey.

Is Audyssey perfect? Nothing is, of course. But, I cannot think of a better way to make a huge positive difference in your sound for music and movies, if greater faithfulness to the sound encoded on the disk is your bag. That is, if you want to hear better what the mixing/mastering engineers themselves heard.
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post #2008 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 06:57 PM
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Room treatments are pretty easy, heck you can give your room layout to one of the acoustic treatment company's and they'll tell you exactly where to put everything and what you'll need for your setup. Thats what I did. They put a kit together for me and I hung them all myself. It took me 3 hours to hang all my panels and traps.

Just for reference fitz, are you using high sensitivity speakers? cause my problem with audyssey is mostly with high sensitivity speakers in certain rooms. I still have it on in my system, as I think the benefits outweigh the negatives, even if I do feel it takes some of the edge off my stuff.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #2009 of 4290 Old 04-05-2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Terry.

Yes you can test it without using Direct mode. Make sure you have Source set in the Input Output Assign menu. I think you do already.

Then go to Source Settings menu and go to Picture Adjust. On the Resolution setting, move through the settings until you get to 'Custom'. In that section make sure all the settings are at default but set Res to THROUGH. Back out of the menus.

Now put on a disc and find a screen with a fair bit of white content on it. Pause the disc at that screen.

Then go into the Home menu on the remote and click down to Video. There you will see that you can now switch modes from Through to Direct, Custom etc. What you need to do is first select Through and note the colour of the white part of the image. Then scroll along to Custom (where you also set Through, so it should stay the same) and you will see the white area of the image go whiter. IOW, the colour balance will go from warmer to cooler.

Custom is passing it correctly (as is Direct) and Through is giving a warm bias.

If you see the difference and you want to stay with the 'purer' white colour balance, simply select Custom in Picture Adjust for that source for future use. Make sure you have all the other bits of the custom setting set appropriately (probably all defaults).

Let me know how you get on. I'd guess this is something Onkyo can fix with a FW update once they acknowledge the issue.

EDIT: you may prefer the warmer balance of course. That's why screens etc have colour balance settings. But if your display has been calibrated, and I am guessing it has, then you will want it to be spot on I'd think. I mentioned before that I preferred the warmer tone, but I was using Hugo as a test disc and that has a lovely golden cast over much of the photography in the film and the Through setting enhanced it. I have since made sure I am using Direct for all relevant sources.

Keith,

I'll check that out.

I should mention though that I have watched a lot of different movies from different sources and my image in regards to "White" looks excellent.

And believe me since I read the Post on the "Warmer" white images I have really been paying very close attention to the "White".

If I leave my settings right where they are I have no complaints on the "White" part of the Picture.

Terry

My "New" Home Theatre Pics 3/22/2012.

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post #2010 of 4290 Old 04-06-2012, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Room treatments are pretty easy, heck you can give your room layout to one of the acoustic treatment company's and they'll tell you exactly where to put everything and what you'll need for your setup. Thats what I did. They put a kit together for me and I hung them all myself. It took me 3 hours to hang all my panels and traps.

Just for reference fitz, are you using high sensitivity speakers? cause my problem with audyssey is mostly with high sensitivity speakers in certain rooms. I still have it on in my system, as I think the benefits outweigh the negatives, even if I do feel it takes some of the edge off my stuff.

I know it is easy to purchase a kit of room treatments, and it is quite possible that it will yield some improvement. However, having researched off the shelf treatments extensively, I repeat that essentially none of them address room modal behavior below 100Hz, which is where the modes are at their worst. For that, you need either really big, home made bass traps or custom designed and built Helmholtz resonators. And, as I said, how do you know what the final result really is without measurements? Measurement in room acoustics is critical, and doing that properly requires some expertise well beyond a Ratshack meter or even a fancy PC-based measurement system.

We have a frequent poster here, pepar, who has built his own super chunk corner bass traps. Yet he still swears by Audyssey.

I do have some experience with high sensitivity speakers, namely Wilson's. Offhand, I do not see why that should make a difference, and it did not with the system I EQ'ed. If by high sensitivity, you mean horns or other systems that may be somewhat peaky in response, then, yes, Audyssey will correct that. My speakers are all Martin Logan electrostatic hybrids of average sensitivity.

In all the systems I have done, Audyssey absolutely cured bass muddiness, boominess, hangover, etc. and made the bass quite superlative. It also corrected higher frequency issues, taming peaks and more usually lifted response dips from over damping, etc. The resulting sound was much more coherent, natural and lifelike to all listeners, against their considerable concert going experience.

So, I and everyone who has heard any of these systems, including my own, is a firm believer. As little as 60 seconds of comparative listening was all it took. It was that obvious.
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