Suggestions for NON-ONKYO Receiver (USD 1500-2000) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Dear Forum members

I would like to ask you help in selecting a new Home Theater Receiver. I will try to post as much information about my setup bellow so you can better evaluate the available option.

First I would like to point out that I have just been burned by Onkyo. In April 2011 I purchased a Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver and after just 3 months of use it had all the failures that have been already discussed here in the forum.

However Onkyo has refused to repair it under warranty and the repair cost is actually more than I paid for the receiver.

That said I am sorely disappointed with the company and I will not buy from them again.

Now for the specifics of my HT Setup:

A - The Room:


1) My living room is a perfect rectangle measuring 11m (33,6 feet) deep x 5,3 m (16,9 feet) width

2) The TV is set at the 5,3m wide wall.

3) main listening position is at 6m (18 feet) from the TV.


B - Speakers: 7.1 Setup is as follow

1) L/R are Polk Audio Monitor 70 Speakers
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...ent/monitor70/

2) Center Chanel is Polk Audio CS2
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/recent/cs2/

3) Surround and Surround Back are Polk Audio RC-80i http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio...ex.php?s=rc80i

4) Subwoofer is the Polk Audio PSW125
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...x.php?s=psw125

C - The Equipment

1) TV - 60" LG Plasma (non 3d)
2) Projector - Panasonic AE5000 (to be installed in the near future)
3) Blue Ray - LGBX580
4) XBox 360
5) Mac Mini as HTPC
6) Cable Box with HDMI Out
7) Harmony 1100 remote

D - The use

70% TV / Movies
20% Gaming
10% Music

E - Other important considerations

1) Preferably 9.2 channels so I can add a second zone to my kitchen without having to buy an extra amp
2) Latest audio and video codecs
3) Good auto setup (preferably the audissey XT32 version)
4) Two HMDI Outs
5) Stand by HDMI pass through
6) Air play capable

F - Budget

USD 1500-2000


Thank you in advance for any input.

André Chaves
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post #2 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 10:54 AM
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The Denon 4311 would be worth looking into. There were a few release issues fixed some time back via firmware - since then, the unit has been very stable.
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post #3 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 11:32 AM
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Yamaha RX-A3010 $1.998
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post #4 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 02:16 PM
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Hmmm...let me guess...you bought your Onkyo from an unauthorized retailer?
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post #5 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually no. I bought from an authorized dealer.

However I live in Brazil and bought in the US while traveling. Onkyo said that buying in a country and using in another voids the warranty.

While they warranty clearly states that it's valid only in the US it seems to me that it's a lame attitude considering that the problem is a well know defect and the model was one of their most expensive units.
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post #6 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The yamaha seems pretty good on paper. But is the sound quality good? Is the YPAO system as good as Audissey?
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post #7 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The Denon 4311 is the model I was looking into. Do you know if they plan to launch an 4312 anytime soon?
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post #8 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:40 PM
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This seem to be the case, when buying it outside the EU.
Within the EU they are forced by law to recognize the warranty if bought in another member state for at least 2 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

Actually no. I bought from an authorized dealer.

However I live in Brazil and bought in the US while traveling. Onkyo said that buying in a country and using in another voids the warranty.

While they warranty clearly states that it's valid only in the US it seems to me that it's a lame attitude considering that the problem is a well know defect and the model was one of their most expensive units.

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post #9 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:41 PM
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It's not available yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

The yamaha seems pretty good on paper. But is the sound quality good? Is the YPAO system as good as Audissey?

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post #10 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

The Denon 4311 is the model I was looking into. Do you know if they plan to launch an 4312 anytime soon?

There will be a new Denon above the existing 3312 after summer next year. The 4311 is being merged into the higher priced model and released next year - don't recall the exact time-frame.
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post #11 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 05:07 PM
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I would go with a Yamaha or Denon that has preouts and an Emotiva amp
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post #13 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

I would go with a Yamaha or Denon that has preouts and an Emotiva amp

I am not familiar with emotiva. Are they good?
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post #14 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

I am not familiar with emotiva. Are they good?

Yes the Emotiva amps are good. Check them out on their website. However do not fall for the hype on their pre-pro. If you want Audyssey then the 4311 is the way to go. If not then the Yamaha A2000/3000 are bargains now and are excellent AVR's. And yes they sound very good. On par with anything else out there and their reliability is second to none. Have no idea what one would cost you where you are though. Sorry for the Onkyo failure but thats the way they are at this time. Hopefully the 09 series will help get them back on track.
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post #15 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

Actually no. I bought from an authorized dealer.

However I live in Brazil and bought in the US while traveling. Onkyo said that buying in a country and using in another voids the warranty.

While they warranty clearly states that it's valid only in the US it seems to me that it's a lame attitude considering that the problem is a well know defect and the model was one of their most expensive units.

Huh, that sucks. Have you tried to repair the unit yourself (assuming it's the IDE cable issue you're suffering from)? It's not that complicated and it's a lot better than chucking the receiver.
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post #16 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Huh, that sucks. Have you tried to repair the unit yourself (assuming it's the IDE cable issue you're suffering from)? It's not that complicated and it's a lot better than chucking the receiver.

I took it to the Onkyo Service center in Brazil an they told they would have to replace the HDMI Board and the Microprocessor Board. Total Cost USD 1800. I intend to take it somewhere else for a second evaluation, but I don't have my hopes up.
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post #17 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Yes the Emotiva amps are good. Check them out on their website. However do not fall for the hype on their pre-pro. If you want Audyssey then the 4311 is the way to go. If not then the Yamaha A2000/3000 are bargains now and are excellent AVR's. And yes they sound very good. On par with anything else out there and their reliability is second to none. Have no idea what one would cost you where you are though. Sorry for the Onkyo failure but thats the way they are at this time. Hopefully the 09 series will help get them back on track.

In regards of the Setup with emotiva amps what are you suggesting? Use them for all the 7 channels? Just for the 2 to be used in the kitchen?
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post #18 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Huh, that sucks. Have you tried to repair the unit yourself (assuming it's the IDE cable issue you're suffering from)? It's not that complicated and it's a lot better than chucking the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

I took it to the Onkyo Service center in Brazil an they told they would have to replace the HDMI Board and the Microprocessor Board. Total Cost USD 1800. I intend to take it somewhere else for a second evaluation, but I don't have my hopes up.

Forgot to mention, but the simptons and the time frame are exactly the same listed in the XX08 failure thread, plus HMDI out not working.
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post #19 of 57 Old 10-02-2011, 08:01 PM
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I think what was suggested concerning the Emotiva amp was to get a lesser model AVR with pre-outs and add the amp. You could get something like the Yamaha 867 and an Emotiva XPA3 and connect it where the amp powers the front three and let the 867 do the surrounds. If I were you I think I would go for the Denon 4311 you mentioned in an earlier post. It seems you want Audyssey, and it has the best version available on a non Onkyo unit. If not the 4311 then it would be one of the Yamaha's (A2000/3000). I'm using the A3000 and it works flawlessly. The new version of YPAO works very good. You could save some money and get the Marantz 6005/7005 which both have good versions of Audyssey. The new Denon replacing the 4311 is IIRC going to be the 4313 and will be an expensive piece of gear. I think it's supposed to replace the 48xx series, so the price will possibly in the mid to upper $2k range. Sometime next year I believe I read on a thread here somewhere. Good luck and hope you can find something that you will be satisfied with.
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post #20 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

I think what was suggested concerning the Emotiva amp was to get a lesser model AVR with pre-outs and add the amp. You could get something like the Yamaha 867 and an Emotiva XPA3 and connect it where the amp powers the front three and let the 867 do the surrounds. If I were you I think I would go for the Denon 4311 you mentioned in an earlier post. It seems you want Audyssey, and it has the best version available on a non Onkyo unit. If not the 4311 then it would be one of the Yamaha's (A2000/3000). I'm using the A3000 and it works flawlessly. The new version of YPAO works very good. You could save some money and get the Marantz 6005/7005 which both have good versions of Audyssey. The new Denon replacing the 4311 is IIRC going to be the 4313 and will be an expensive piece of gear. I think it's supposed to replace the 48xx series, so the price will possibly in the mid to upper $2k range. Sometime next year I believe I read on a thread here somewhere. Good luck and hope you can find something that you will be satisfied with.

I am quite interested in the Yamada 3010/2010 models. Specially because they have component video out for the Zone 2, whereas the Denon 4311 only has composite.

What about the Pioneers SC-55 and 57? Are they good receiver? How does the MCACC stand against YPAO and audissey?
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post #21 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

I am quite interested in the Yamada 3010/2010 models. Specially because they have component video out for the Zone 2, whereas the Denon 4311 only has composite.

What about the Pioneers SC-55 and 57? Are they good receiver? How does the MCACC stand against YPAO and audissey?

The Pioneers Eq programs do NOT calibrate the sub(s) unless that has changed with the two models you have listed. I feel like your best choice at this time woulds be the Yamaha's and then the Denon 4311. However please realize that I'm a Yamaha fanboy. Have never had a Yamaha AVr fail on me yet. They are just made to operate like they are supposed to. They also last a very long time. I think you would like the new version of YPAO that is in the A2000/3000 or A2010/3010.
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post #22 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 07:03 AM
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did you register it? If you didn't perhaps you could send it back to the states to someone you trust and have them turn it in for warranty repair?

shipping it both ways wouldn't be cheap but it sounds like it'd be cheaper than fixing it?

I've always had good luck with my onkyos, but scenarios like this don't really boost my enthusiam about their newer products and customer service.

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post #23 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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did you register it? If you didn't perhaps you could send it back to the states to someone you trust and have them turn it in for warranty repair?

shipping it both ways wouldn't be cheap but it sounds like it'd be cheaper than fixing it?

I've always had good luck with my onkyos, but scenarios like this don't really boost my enthusiam about their newer products and customer service.

I did not register, but when I contacted them about the problem they voided the warranty. So even if I send it back to the US I would still have to pay for the repairs.

I used to be a big Onkyo fan. It was my third Onkyo receiver. I always tought they had a good quality product that offered a lot for the money invested. So When I decided to upgrade to a "higher end" receiver they were my natural choice.

What really annoyed me was the attitude of tech support regarding the problem. I guess they should be taking better care of the customers of their top of line products, specially considering it was a well known problem.

It felt like they used the fact that I bought it in the US and used it in Brazil as as excuse to avoid the cost of repairing the unit.
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post #24 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

The Pioneers Eq programs do NOT calibrate the sub(s) unless that has changed with the two models you have listed. I feel like your best choice at this time woulds be the Yamaha's and then the Denon 4311. However please realize that I'm a Yamaha fanboy. Have never had a Yamaha AVr fail on me yet. They are just made to operate like they are supposed to. They also last a very long time. I think you would like the new version of YPAO that is in the A2000/3000 or A2010/3010.

Does the YPAO calibrate the sub? I have friends who have used Yamahas and love them.

What do you think about their ability to fill a reasonably large room with sound? Are they powerful enough?

I understand the role speakers play on that and mine speakers my not be the best of the bunch, but I believe they offered great value and where a definite improvement over the last ones.
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post #25 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

The Pioneers Eq programs do NOT calibrate the sub(s) unless that has changed with the two models you have listed. I feel like your best choice at this time woulds be the Yamaha's and then the Denon 4311. However please realize that I'm a Yamaha fanboy. Have never had a Yamaha AVr fail on me yet. They are just made to operate like they are supposed to. They also last a very long time. I think you would like the new version of YPAO that is in the A2000/3000 or A2010/3010.

forgot to ask. Do you think it would be possible to by amp the front speakers and still have 7.1 sound from the yamaha 3010?
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post #26 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 09:17 AM
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forgot to ask. Do you think it would be possible to by amp the front speakers and still have 7.1 sound from the yamaha 3010?

yes, i would think so since the 3010 is a 9.2 AVR. Doesn't really matter though since passive bi-amping doesn't accomplish anything.
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post #27 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

Does the YPAO calibrate the sub? I have friends who have used Yamahas and love them.

What do you think about their ability to fill a reasonably large room with sound? Are they powerful enough?

I understand the role speakers play on that and mine speakers my not be the best of the bunch, but I believe they offered great value and where a definite improvement over the last ones.

YPAO on the A2000/3000 and the A2010/3010 does calibrate your sub. The lower models from the X000 line doesn't. Don't know what the A1010 does. And yes the Yamaha's can fill a fairly large room. You need to define large though. The Yamaha's are very hard to beat for sound,design and reliability IMO. More expensive than Onkyo(but much better IMO) and in most cases less costly than the Denon's and Marantz of comparable models.
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post #28 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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YPAO on the A2000/3000 and the A2010/3010 does calibrate your sub. The lower models from the X000 line doesn't. Don't know what the A1010 does. And yes the Yamaha's can fill a fairly large room. You need to define large though.


My living room is 11x5 meters/35x15 feet. However the Main listening position is 6 meters/20 feet from the display and the front Speakers
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post #29 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrechaves View Post

My living room is 11x5 meters/35x15 feet. However the Main listening position is 6 meters/20 feet from the display and the front Speakers

There is really no receiver that will be able to get the polks that loud at 20 feet away. 90 DB speakers just won’t pull that off no matter how much power you get to them. You really need high efficiency speakers. Something in the 100 to 105 DB range to fill up a room that big. I would start a thread in the speakers forum and get some recommendations if you really want to get great sound quality in a room that big. You would also need some really good subs to fill that room up with bass.
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post #30 of 57 Old 10-03-2011, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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There is really no receiver that will be able to get the polks that loud at 20 feet away. 90 DB speakers just won’t pull that off no matter how much power you get to them. You really need high efficiency speakers. Something in the 100 to 105 DB range to fill up a room that big. I would start a thread in the speakers forum and get some recommendations if you really want to get great sound quality in a room that big. You would also need some really good subs to fill that room up with bass.

I never bought about that! Not even if i bi-amp the Monitors? I know their maximum rated power is 275w RMS? Or did I understand the whole bi amping thing wrong?
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