When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
So what's the answer on XT32 in the 3313CI?

Yea! Would like to use a 3313 in the family room. Denon has some odd labeling ...thought the 4311's successor was going to be 4313 not a 4520 lol

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post #272 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

There's not a lot to upgrade. The one thing I think will be there is support for Neo:X up to 11.2.

I've read in a couple of places there may not be a 4311 upgrade in calendar year 2012. The upgrade is targeted for 2013. This was a few months back, so things may have changed. It would be a good idea to have it available for thanksgiving 2012 so they can get some christmas sales.

If they wait until 2013, that leaves the 4311 as the 2012 equivalent of the 4810 (i.e. the 'flagship emeritis') with the 3313 being 'better' for the users that want the latest of everything, meaning the dubiously useful 4K upscaling, the new Audyssey LFC, and Neo: X. Unless you have a thing for assignable amps, a 9.2 or 11.2 system, and a little more wattage per channel (assuming that the 3313 has the same 125 watts as the 3312 vs. 140 on the 4311), that makes the 3313 a better buy than a 4311 at anything close to MSRP if it has XT32 and the other Audyssey goodies (DEQ DSX, DVol). At least for the typical consumer - we still don't know if the 3313, assuming it has XT32, would be Pro capable, of course.

If I were still in the market for the best value on a Denon AVR this summer,and were the typical mid range buyer (i.e. not a hard-core audiophile that would spend more just to get a Pro-capable flagship), I might think twice about whether I'd still buy the 4311 or get a 3313, particularly if I only had a 5.1/2 system.

The question then becomes what does a 4520 buy vs. a 3313, at almost double the price, if you don't have FH/FW or multiple zones.

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post #273 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 12:25 PM
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^^^

under that scenario, and assuming xt32 pro capability, i'd buy the 3313 over the 4520... i have no need for 9.1/11.1 (or even 7.1, ftm)...

give me the dsp, and i'll be happy...

- chris

 

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post #274 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

under that scenario, and assuming xt32 pro capability, i'd buy the 3313 over the 4520... i have no need for 9.1/11.1 (or even 7.1, ftm)...

give me the dsp, and i'll be happy...

+1 on that. It's really no different than the cycle that led to the 'flagship' for Denon moving from the 58xx to the 48xx (and now either the 4311 or 4520, depending on taste and when you buy).

But unless you create artifical barriers to upgrading AVRs ala Pioneer - and I get a kick out of the wailing of at least one SC user due to the new iControl and the GUI not apparently trickling to the 2011 units - once you've got a certain level of capability in your AVRs, it becomes pointless to come up with an incremental version of last years' flagship. It's better to drop its price (assuming you're still above cost) or to offer a bundle (hint: built-in Pro) or paid upgrades than to have units with premature obsolesence. You just have to guess right about the hardware/software tradeoff.

It's actually a good reason why mfrs should sell direct to consumer from their websites and drop both mass market brick & mortar sales AND online through electronics resellers for all but the most commoditized products altogether, as it reduces the 'showroom' effect and forces users to do a) their own shopping for features and b) their own tradeoffs between manufacturers. Of course, in my world, Oppo would be the Microsoft of CE, so what do I know:-)?

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post #275 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:17 PM
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^^^

we are sharing a brain today... i pretty much agree wholeheartedly with all of that...

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post #276 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

we are sharing a brain today... i pretty much agree wholeheartedly with all of that...

One of those days.....now we just have to work on the Cubs' bullpen and swinging on the first pitch

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post #277 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:38 PM
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^^^

lol... hey you took our gm... maybe he can figure that out for you...

- chris

 

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post #278 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

The question then becomes what does a 4520 buy vs. a 3313, at almost double the price, if you don't have FH/FW or multiple zones.

In the Denon scheme, 4520CI (assuming that it is accurate) is such an odd model number that something seems afoot. Could it be a pre/pro instead of an AVR? Could it be an AVR with modular input/output boards and/or highly software upgradeable DSP that will remain in the lineup for several years, hence the xx20CI nomenclature? Any other ideas?

AJ
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post #279 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

In the Denon scheme, 4520CI (assuming that it is accurate) is such an odd model number that something seems afoot. Could it be a pre/pro instead of an AVR? Could it be an AVR with modular input/output boards and/or highly software upgradeable DSP that will remain in the lineup for several years, hence the xx20CI nomenclature? Any other ideas?

AJ

Maybe just a good way to distinguish a model that will stay around for a while (and also Made in Japan). The models with xx10, xx11, xx12, xx13 are the more mass-market models that get refreshed every year. Maybe they just want to break out of that numbering scheme for something that won't be updated as often.
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post #280 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

In the Denon scheme, 4520CI (assuming that it is accurate) is such an odd model number that something seems afoot. Could it be a pre/pro instead of an AVR? Could it be an AVR with modular input/output boards and/or highly software upgradeable DSP that will remain in the lineup for several years, hence the xx20CI nomenclature? Any other ideas?

AJ

I don't know, but if it's the latter, it might be the one thing that would be a reason to upgrade from a 4311 in the immediate future......that would be VERY smart on Denon's part if they support it, and it doesn't introduce new bugs to what's otherwise a stable platform....but I'd wait a good few months once the 'bleeding edge' adaptors have bought it first.

@Sam S: I know that the 4311 (and I want to say the 3312?) was made in Japan, but we still don't know about the 3313 and a still hypothetical 4520. And as for unusual numbering, Pioneer's doing the same thing: SC-61 & 63 to replace the 55 and 57 (after four generations of 05/07/09).

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #281 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

In the Denon scheme, 4520CI (assuming that it is accurate) is such an odd model number that something seems afoot. Could it be a pre/pro instead of an AVR? Could it be an AVR with modular input/output boards and/or highly software upgradeable DSP that will remain in the lineup for several years, hence the xx20CI nomenclature? Any other ideas?

AJ

hmmmm... now that's an intriguing possibility...

although i hope not... i don't want to get "gotta have it" disease...

- chris

 

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post #282 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 04:27 PM
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I think Sam S has it right -- it's a way to differentiate the "flagship" products that won't be on an annual refresh cycle like the "consumer level" products.

The 45xx prefix seem to be an obvious nod to the fact that it will be "in between" the 4311 and 4810 in terms of price and tier (the same way they scrapped the 28xx and 38xx level model tiers when they replaced both the 2809ci and 3808ci with the 3310ci as an "in between" model). I would think the xx20 suffix part is exactly what Sam is speculating -- just differentiating it from the mass market products.

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post #283 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think Sam S has it right -- it's a way to differentiate the "flagship" products that won't be on an annual refresh cycle like the "consumer level" products.

The 45xx prefix seem to be an obvious nod to the fact that it will be "in between" the 4311 and 4810 in terms of price and tier (the same way they scrapped the 28xx and 38xx level model tiers when they replaced both the 2809ci and 3808ci with the 3310ci as an "in between" model). I would think the xx20 suffix part is exactly what Sam is speculating -- just differentiating it from the mass market products.

You're probably right, but I like the idea of a higher degree of upradability than the mass models to differentiate it as well. Samsung's doing it on their Smart TVs; why not Denon? What that means remains to be seen, of course....

@ Chris: While we're not all Joerod or Filmmixer (whose product lifecycle can be measured in quarters of the year), how can you call yourself an audio dork if you're NOT already thinking of a 2014 or 2015 upgrade? You have a reputation to uphold....

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Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #284 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 04:57 PM
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^^^

lol... just because i don't WANT to doesn't mean i'm not thinking about it...

i'm still hoping the a100 will break my yearly upgrade schedule... i think it will... i have enough new toys to keep me occupied for at least a few months...

although keep in mind that i'm very good at dragging people along with me when i do change...

- chris

 

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post #285 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

lol... just because i don't WANT to doesn't mean i'm not thinking about it...

i'm still hoping the a100 will break my yearly upgrade schedule... i think it will... i have enough new toys to keep me occupied for at least a few months...

although keep in mind that i'm very good at dragging people along with me when i do change...

I'll believe it when I see it! I just have a felling I'm going to get a pm in October talking about how awesome your new 4520 is.
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post #286 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 06:39 AM
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I have an AVR 3300 and am looking to upgrade. I would like the 3313 to have XT32, but you guys are talking about pro. My understanding is pro is for more of a HT room. With multiple seating rows so you can get more points of calibration. The average user has a basement or living room with a couch. That is what standard XT32 is for. Plus all the extra cost for pro.
Do you think you'll be able to firmware update straight through the network instead of flash drive?
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post #287 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I'll believe it when I see it! I just have a felling I'm going to get a pm in October talking about how awesome your new 4520 is.

lol... not gonna do it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblev View Post

I have an AVR 3300 and am looking to upgrade. I would like the 3313 to have XT32, but you guys are talking about pro. My understanding is pro is for more of a HT room. With multiple seating rows so you can get more points of calibration. The average user has a basement or living room with a couch. That is what standard XT32 is for. Plus all the extra cost for pro.
Do you think you'll be able to firmware update straight through the network instead of flash drive?

a) not entirely true, i have 1 "row" of seating (a reclining sofa)... and i think what people are asking for is for it to be "pro capable", not "pro included" on the 3xxx...

b) i don't see why not, you've been able to update firmware from the network on network enabled models for awhile now...

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post #288 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 08:27 AM
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yeah, I see what your saying, but you do still have to purchase the equipment for the pro calibration; and isn't there a license you have to purchase to?
Thanks for clarifying the firmware update for me.
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post #289 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 08:48 AM
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^^^

yes... but there is no "requirement" to do so... being "capable" does not imply "required"...

- chris

 

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Gotta have it disease...I'm fighting it. I have a Denon AVR 4800 that is now a decade+ old. I've held off on new technology, but I'm ready to move to digital.

Need HDMI switching and I'll probably set up a 7.2 in my theater (5.2 right now).

I feel very twisted reading through this thread. The 3312 really sounds like more than I need, but then there's new tech envy.

Actually, I've thought about the 4310 or the 3311...but, I want a relatively long term solution for my room.

then there's the inevitable price drops and specials!!! Ahhh...this is a tough decision.
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post #291 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 09:34 AM
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lol... not gonna do it...

Read my lips: no new AVRs.

Now, remember how well that worked out for George H. W.

AJ
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Has there been any info saying which level starts with 9.2 - all internal amps?
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post #293 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 09:36 AM
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^^^

LOL!

i'm glad you are back aj...

- chris

 

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post #294 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblev View Post

I have an AVR 3300 and am looking to upgrade. I would like the 3313 to have XT32, but you guys are talking about pro. My understanding is pro is for more of a HT room. With multiple seating rows so you can get more points of calibration. The average user has a basement or living room with a couch. That is what standard XT32 is for. Plus all the extra cost for pro.
Do you think you'll be able to firmware update straight through the network instead of flash drive?

The denon 3300 is 10x better sounding than the new denons if you can get past all the hype, 5.1 is all you really need. A 4311 is a like the 3300 spread out paper thin.. There even a white paper on the 3300, its a denon classic.
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post #295 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:13 AM
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The denon 3300 is 10x better sounding than the new denons if you can get past all the hype, 5.1 is all you really need. A 4311 is a like the 3300 spread out paper thin.. There even a white paper on the 3300, its a denon classic.

What a line, but you gave me a good laugh. A old receiver without HDMI is real useful these days, not!

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post #296 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:22 AM
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The denon 3300 is 10x better sounding than the new denons if you can get past all the hype, 5.1 is all you really need. A 4311 is a like the 3300 spread out paper thin.. There even a white paper on the 3300, its a denon classic.

Wait wait wait, so the 3300 that was 33 lbs has more power than the 4311 which is 38lbs? So you really think that in 12 years they have figured out how to make amps weigh more while putting out less power? Do you think about this stuff before you post?
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post #297 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:24 AM
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What a line, but you gave me a good laugh. A old receiver without HDMI is real useful these days, not!

Just run the bluray and cable tv directly to the panel, whats the big deal.
Use coax or tos for audio.. Your to hung up in all the hype, bin there done that.... Yea I'm living the dream...
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post #298 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:30 AM
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Wait wait wait, so the 3300 that was 33 lbs has more power than the 4311 which is 38lbs? So you really think that in 12 years they have figured out how to make amps weigh more while putting out less power? Do you think about this stuff before you post?

Well its only 5 amps not 9, less weigh doesn't mean anything in its self. I'm not saying the 4311 is bad, its just not better sounding than the 3300..
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post #299 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:39 AM
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Just run the bluray and cable tv directly to the panel, whats the big deal.
Use coax or tos for audio.. Your to hung up in all the hype, bin there done that.... Yea I'm living the dream...

I'm sure your looking for a debate, won't get any, because this is the 2013 Denon rumor thread, not the pre-hdmi Denon AVR discussion thread.

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post #300 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Well its only 5 amps not 9, less weigh doesn't mean anything in its self. I'm not saying the 4311 is bad, its just not better sounding than the 3300..

How does that matter if you are only using 5 speakers? Have you ever noticed a receiver puts out more power to 2 channels than it does to 5? Same thing with 5 channels as opposed to 9. Also the power supply is what weighs the most in a receiver so I'm willing to bet the 4311 has a power supply that is as good or better than the 3300. So again your argument makes no sense.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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