When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
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Oh shucks forgot the 33 is probably over 1k lol thought for a sec it would cost under a grand since my 3311 did haha my bad

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #332 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 03:21 PM
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^^^

lol... i'm the last person to discourage people from getting new stuff...

but given at the 4311 is selling for 13 beans new, it'd be hard to get even 10 beans for a used one at this point... so it'd likely be a wash cost wise, at best...

plus we know the 4311 "works"... something that can't be overlooked...

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post #333 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the "no" on that bet was pretty safe... but add in a fully functional hdmi matrix switch... welllllll...



unless the 3313 has something else worthwhile that the 4311 doean't have, wouldn't that be a bit pointless? i mean, i like to swap gear as much as the next guy, but...

^^
Maybe he's lusting after that 4K video processing, or there's a warranty issue to the refurbished AVRs vs. what you get from a new purchased from an authorized seller. We also don't know what the 3313 is going to offer as well. Maybe the 3313's got the matrixed HDMI too......

Q: would the matrixed HDMI be enough for you to go 'downscale' from the A100 on your end.....

If that isn't strange enough for you, I'm listening to an Internet radio station, and I as I type they're playing a version of Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall".......in Hebrew. Go figure....

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post #334 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 03:49 PM
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^^^

yea, all true...

i don't know... it certainly would be enough to make me take a look... it would simplify life a bit for me... but it's hard to see spending the (assumed) significant price premium just for that...

i really need to thin the herd, period... at one point, i had just gotten down to the oppo, atv and fios box... the the mini got added back in... then the ps3 and xa2... neither of which i ever actually use (other than using the ps3 for sunday ticket during last football season)... removing a few switches/splitters would help too...

lol... dylan in hebrew.. now that's certainly unique...

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post #335 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 05:55 PM
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The funny thing is, I bet some of you will be saying what a benchmark the 4311 was in its day... Ten years from now..
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post #336 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Just bought a 4311

Congrats-yet another 4311 owner in the L.A. Home Theater Group . Now we gotta work on Ivan and Sanjay .

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post #337 of 1844 Old 04-18-2012, 08:33 PM
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Interesting thread. Haven't seen anything mentioned that would cause me to even scratch my head about moving from 4311. Although I realize most of these features are likely unobtainium, the sorts of things that would cause me to be interested in a 4520 are:

- improved room diagnostic & display capability. Something like REW integrated with the AVR. Obviously not going to happen. What the 4311/XT32 shows us now is pitiful.

- user configurable digital filters that could be used in conjunction with above capability to configure s/w x-overs ahead of all internal PA channels for multi-amping. Not something many potential buyers would be interested in but would be coveted by some & provide ultimate flexibility.

- Put a 4 port router in it & a S/L of memory with media player s/w. One way to help ensure the AVR becomes the convergence platform instead of the TV, STB or BR player.
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post #338 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

...
- Put a 4 port router in it & a S/L of memory with media player s/w. One way to help ensure the AVR becomes the convergence platform instead of the TV, STB or BR player.

I'm with you on that.

I suppose it is only a matter of time before AVRs include video decoding for media sourced from USB/DLNA.
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post #339 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 03:48 AM
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Hate to keep banging on it but that will require major rethink of GUI. Let's put it this way even Google could not convince people to browse with an interface less than perfect, which is what killed Google TV.

Video decoding will require stepping up to the level of Plex. TVs can already play video files and they network too with decent interfaces.

So it's come strong or go home
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post #340 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Hate to keep banging on it but that will require major rethink of GUI. Let's put it this way even Google could not convince people to browse with an interface less than perfect, which is what killed Google TV.

With respect to the UI, I don't doubt this in the slightest.

As for Google TV - they'd have to pay me to watch it if they wanted to collect more information about me to aid their advertising. Or in other words, I wouldn't use Google TV even if the UI was perfect.

Quote:


Video decoding will require stepping up to the level of Plex. TVs can already play video files and they network too with decent interfaces.

So it's come strong or go home

But what about projectors?
And 4K?

If you're connecting a projector to your AVR, chances are the projector isn't going to be networked. So where do you source the material for that? STB? BR? Or AVR?

What's the solution that a 4K capable AVR at or under $1000 is a part of that delivers 4K video? It would seem to me that this type of configuration also currently calls for a (4K) projector.
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post #341 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 05:17 AM
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Quote:


- Put a 4 port router in it & a S/L of memory with media player s/w. One way to help ensure the AVR becomes the convergence platform instead of the TV, STB or BR player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post

I'm with you on that.

I suppose it is only a matter of time before AVRs include video decoding for media sourced from USB/DLNA.

I think you would want a 4 port switch. Not a router.

I'm not opposed to using a single device to handle networking, dlna, media storage, etc... , but in order for this to work, you would need to include the capability to play blu-ray movies and embed a web browser. The receiver would probably be a foot tall.

I personally would prefer to let my computer handle storage. Use an external switch to handle networking and let my blu-ray player handle dlna. I don't want to pay for features that I would have without the receiver.
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post #342 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post

But what about Projectors
And 4K?

If you're connecting a projector to your AVR, chances are the projector isn't going to be networked. So where do you source the material for that? STB? BR? Or AVR?

What's the solution that a 4K capable AVR at or under $1000 is a part of that delivers 4K video? It would seem to me that this type of configuration also currently calls for a (4K) projector.

Personally I think 4k will bomb - the content isn't there and you're not going to want to waste your money up scaling SD 480i to 4K. . So your content source is likely streamed off fiber net or and upscaled by Blu Ray player . The latter (eg LG and Samsung) are aggressively ahead on streaming capability, local digital file playing and storefront with apps. plus the offer networked TVs that do the same. I think LG is licensing media player off of Plex.

Personally I rather have a receiver that functions as an A-to-Z control center but if the receivers are gonna just dump the video playing half baked like they've done with the music DLNA then really, no thanks.

I suspect wel'l instead see the receiver folks paying Apple for "Airplay video" licensing whenever Apple is good and ready - and that would not happen until after Apple has launched its TV, which is itself probably deep into 2013.
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post #343 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurosion View Post

Here I am trying to be helpful on my first swing and I'm not allowed to provide the URL.

If you set up a product comparison on denon.ca, paste the following to get specs for the 1713 and 1913 (and the 1912). Seems to work fine at the moment.

CatId=3d9614d1-8000-4106-ab91-8192242cab83&SubId=40b5820d-83c2-4e93-9909-60aae60e0bdd&pids=14b41fc3-fbd1-492e-b84f-e9bbffd85e60|9d317664-dc14-4d71-a8f1-8ca0e4745468|c6cd1564-2cf5-4e98-8ead-bc63c5c7fede

Thanks for the tip on the comparisons.
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post #344 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 12:15 PM
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Just FYI - do exercise caution using those online specs. They tend to have more than a few errors.

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post #345 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 12:24 PM
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Thanks batpig; I'll be careful.

I'm sitting squarely in the camp of waiting to see what the new lineup offers and at what price points. I'm a NewB and a non-audiophile but I was about to pull the trigger on my FIRST AVR. I have the 2112ci in my sights from EE but since the lower end models are all going to have networking, I'll wait and see.
The 2 things I want are networking and XT. I will only have a 5.1 setup (nothing purchased yet) so I don't need all the extra channels of the upper end models. I'm half deaf (not literally) so I just want the XT to make sure dialogue is as clear as possible so I don't have to crank the db on directtv programming.
EE has the 2112 at a great price but if one of the newer models having XT and networking beats that price, I'll go with that one.

the question is, can I wait for the new release?
I've got momma sold on the 2112ci so I may not be able to wait until May (11 days) - Impatient one I am...

1713 ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
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post #346 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 12:42 PM
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Personally I think 4k will bomb

It won't bomb. New Intel Ivy Bridge chipsets are designed to handle it. Expect to see it in computer monitors and video cards in 2013. Probably in TVs by 2015.

While there isn't content now, there will be. When HDTV first came out, there wasn't any HDTV content.
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post #347 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 12:48 PM
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Its will be nice when we have more info on the new Denon xx13 line, rather then discuss the merits of whether 4K is viable, or not in a AVR.

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post #348 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 03:57 PM
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yeah, these "speculation" threads tend to walk that fine line between useful, relevant info and... um... other stuff

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post #349 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

It won't bomb. New Intel Ivy Bridge chipsets are designed to handle it. Expect to see it in computer monitors and video cards in 2013. Probably in TVs by 2015.

While there isn't content now, there will be. When HDTV first came out, there wasn't any HDTV content.

The only problem is there is no 4K broadcast standard, whereas we eventually got ATSC in the USA after all that COFDM vs 8VSB fuss. (I assume, as before, some broadcaster like Japan's NHK will pioneer some regional standard that may or may not ever get traction in the uS.) If there is no broadcast standard, 4K is just a movie-delivery format and will not get out of a niche. Without broadcast TV to produce volume to drive 4K equipment sales, I don't see prices coming down as quickly as with HDTVs. A lot of people would not buy a 4K screen just to watch movies--they'd want to see some benefit for TV watching. Just don't see that with 19 megabit MPEG2 streams delivered by OTA TV or typical cable systems.
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post #350 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 05:46 PM
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Just saw a few 4K demos this week at NAB--neat stuff.

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post #351 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 07:07 PM
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Everybody who is actually getting completely uncompressed 1080 signals from their internet TV, cable or satellite dish provider please raise your hands.

In this light 4K can only be viewed as a gimmick. 1080p isnt even being done right today. But we desperately need 4k in a receiver?
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post #352 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

just saw a few 4k demos this week at nab--neat stuff.


No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #353 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

In this light 4K can only be viewed as a gimmick. 1080p isnt even being done right today. But we desperately need 4k in a receiver?

Sony has 4k upscaling Blu-ray players and native 4k projectors... a 4k receiver would come in handy. Not to mention the smaller pixel size resolves a lot of issues such as pixel grid and convergence. DVDs aren't the only thing that looks better upscaled.
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post #354 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 08:07 PM
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If anyone wants to discuss the 4K angle in depth, there exists a 40+ page thread devoted to the topic which is in dire need of some new blood (to drain from your body & suck you dry).

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #355 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 08:35 PM
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Sorry to break up the 4K discussion, but I guess this is related... I'm anxious to see the full specs and pics of the 2113ci (can't believe it's no changes except for 4K support). The previous "leaks" (Big Georges and the Denon Canada site) provided a glimpse of the lower range 1313-1913. Any rumors/speculation as to when we'll see something official on the CI range? I'm oh-so-close to pulling the trigger on a 2112ci, but keep hoping the xx13 details will get released before I have to make up my mind. Someone suggested maybe before the end of April? Or is going to be end of May?
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post #356 of 1844 Old 04-19-2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Back on topic...

I heard a rumor from a reasonably reliable source that the 4520 would include a fully matrixed HDMI implementation. 7 or 8 in and 2 out.

I can almost hear the rustling coming from Ccotenj's wallet as I'm posting


Fully matrixed HDMI and my wallet is wide open.
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post #357 of 1844 Old 04-20-2012, 08:23 AM
 
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When is Denon going public with the full info on these products?
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post #358 of 1844 Old 04-20-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Everybody who is actually getting completely uncompressed 1080 signals from their internet TV, cable or satellite dish provider please raise your hands.

In this light 4K can only be viewed as a gimmick. 1080p isnt even being done right today. But we desperately need 4k in a receiver?

You can get a compressed image that is exactly the same as the original image. Compressing a signal does not automatically mean loss in picture quality.

As far as not being done right...
The mpeg standard uses compression. If you didn't use compression, you would not be doing it right.
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post #359 of 1844 Old 04-20-2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

When is Denon going public with the full info on these products?

As noted earlier in this thread, reports are that the public announcement will likely be middle to late May, although the lower level products are supposed to be released by the end of April with the CI series being released in May/June.

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post #360 of 1844 Old 04-20-2012, 09:35 AM
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Thanks JD. That's what had me confused...announcement in mid-to-late May, but reports that 1313-1913 models might be available in April. Guess I'll have to sit tight for a few more weeks or just bite the bullet and be done with it.
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