When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 12:45 PM
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Does anyone know of an A/B comparison of Denon's "HDMI Overlay (advanced)" vs "HDMI Overlay"?

That and the 1080 upscaling seem like the main points vs any sort of "extra networking feature"

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post #452 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 PM
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What does airplay do that I cannot do for free with my HTPC and either Plex or Remote Potato?

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post #453 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaadams View Post

Does anyone know of an A/B comparison of Denon's "HDMI Overlay (advanced)" vs "HDMI Overlay"?

Sure ... just open the 1913 and 1713 manuals and compare them side by side.

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post #454 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaadams View Post

Does anyone know of an A/B comparison of Denon's "HDMI Overlay (advanced)" vs "HDMI Overlay"?

I also posted some screenshots (from the Amazon product pages) in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21942405

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post #455 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

What does airplay do that I cannot do for free with my HTPC and either Plex or Remote Potato?

the point of Airplay is that it's WIRELESS. If you have an HTPC hooked up directly to your receiver, then obviously you aren't gaining anything.

but with Airplay, you could stream from your iPhone or iPad directly to the receiver without having to plug it in with a USB cable. Or if you have a computer with iTunes elsewhere in the house but on the network, you could use your iPhone/iPad via the "remote" app to control streaming to the receiver.

a lot more people have iPhones or iPads than have HTPC's hooked up to their A/V system. For the "masses" being able to sit on your couch and fire up music from your iPhone is an appealing option.

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post #456 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


the point of Airplay is that it's WIRELESS. If you have an HTPC hooked up directly to your receiver, then obviously you aren't gaining anything.

but with Airplay, you could stream from your iPhone or iPad directly to the receiver without having to plug it in with a USB cable. Or if you have a computer with iTunes elsewhere in the house but on the network, you could use your iPhone/iPad via the "remote" app to control streaming to the receiver.

a lot more people have iPhones or iPads than have HTPC's hooked up to their A/V system. For the "masses" being able to sit on your couch and fire up music from your iPhone is an appealing option.

I didn't know that iPhones have the capacity to store 20~30 gig mkv's nor that a wireless connection from one could reliably stream a high bit rate file without drop outs. Guess I see the point but why would you get a great system centered around a Denon AVR to stream crap?

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post #457 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:31 PM
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^^^

you are missing the point...

it is for music...

I listen to 95% of my music via AirPlay in one flavor or another... it is quite a valuable tool in an apple centric household...

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post #458 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:31 PM
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it's not meant for video streaming, AirPlay implementation is wireless only.

again, the point is to have convenient, easily controlled wireless streaming that is integrated across all of your Apple/iTunes devices. Not everyone has the same usage needs as you; for your needs, you have your HTPC setup.

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post #459 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:40 PM
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Even if it is audio when I'm at home I play back flac from my PC through the Denon ASD-3N or the HTPC. On the go, 192 mp3's fit most of my collection on the 16Gb on my android.. which brings the point of why isn't android supported too? Not everybody drinks the cool-aid.

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post #460 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:42 PM
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I am sure they are paying big bucks for Apple Royalties to work with Airplay.

It should be a separate box if people want it. Then they could sell it in Apple stores to those people.

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post #461 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:43 PM
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Probably paid more than the cost of having a phono input on each unit.

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post #462 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Even if it is audio when I'm at home I play back flac from my PC through the Denon ASD-3N or the HTPC. On the go, 192 mp3's fit most of my collection on the 16Gb on my android.. which brings the point of why isn't android supported too? Not everybody drinks the cool-aid.

I think everyone gets that you don't like airplay or Apple. I don't see what the point is of arguing about it. It's useful for some. It's not for you. If you don't want to use it you don't have to.
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post #463 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

it's not meant for video streaming, AirPlay implementation is wireless only.

again, the point is to have convenient, easily controlled wireless streaming that is integrated across all of your Apple/iTunes devices. Not everyone has the same usage needs as you; for your needs, you have your HTPC setup.

Also it doesn't replace a htpc in that way. But i can tell you that many people don't mind having the option to beam audio, video, photo's and their 'screen' of a iPhone,iPad to a airplay video node (like a appletv). For example we have one hooked up in our conference room and anyone at the meeting can send their iPhone, iPad or even laptop screen wireless to the tv for either the sound (say Skype), presentations or pictures or or or... So no it doesn't replace a htpc but it does make for a nice extra option to have in 'routing' stuff around the house esp. if the house is not yours. I visit a friend and just 'beam' some new music of my iPhone to his system all without any setup.

Daniel.

PS: doubt the cost of audio airplay (AirTunes) is that high, not sure if they pay more than say the dts, dolby, hdmi or all the other licenses they have to pay.

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post #464 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I think everyone gets that you don't like airplay or Apple. I don't see what the point is of arguing about it. It's useful for some. It's not for you. If you don't want to use it you don't have to.

Yes it is. It isn't that I don't like apple it is that Denon is taking away stuff from other people until you hit the $1k or higher price point that used to be available at the $800 price point to implement the apple stuff. It is a switch that hits me right in the wallet when I need to upgrade.

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post #465 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:51 PM
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^^^

being in the minority sucks... especially when it is a very small minority...

they would get eaten alive by the other cems on the apple bullet point if they ignored the plurality...

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post #466 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Probably paid more than the cost of having a phono input on each unit.

Again it was wireless and also not analog, having a phono input doesn't solve the same problem and totally misses the point if you want than compare it to dnla that would be the android way and is also supported but in the end simple doesn't work as smooth every time i try it.


Oops. didn't get your point. I guess you want a phono instead of airplay. Well in this price range is a external phono amp not better anyway ?

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post #467 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:54 PM
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too bad there isn't a generic format that would work on Android devices. I would be all over that AVR.

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post #468 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Yes it is. It isn't that I don't like apple it is that Denon is taking away stuff from other people until you hit the $1k or higher price point that used to be available at the $800 price point to implement the apple stuff. It is a switch that hits me right in the wallet when I need to upgrade.

Huh? A 3rd party phono preamp generally costs < $50 and solves the issue of no dedicated PHONO input.

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post #469 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaadams View Post

too bad there isn't a generic format that would work on Android devices. I would be all over that AVR.

Why not use airplay from a android device ?

http://pocketnow.com/android/doublet...irplay-support

Ive not tested it myself but will install it tomorrow on one of my android tablets to see if it works.

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post #470 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

You can get a compressed image that is exactly the same as the original image. Compressing a signal does not automatically mean loss in picture quality.

As far as not being done right...
The mpeg standard uses compression. If you didn't use compression, you would not be doing it right.


I don't agree here. You cant take an original image and compress it without some degradation to the original image. That's impossible to do... You can get it close, but to have an exact duplicate with compression is impossible. where this trick comes into play is the size/resolution of the compressed image. We're not talking about compressing images in a pdf file here.

When it comes to video, it's the same thing. Compression does introduce image quality loss. At what level is the the quality loss acceptable, is what sets the standard. Look at the difference in mpeg over the last 8 years. It all comes down to how it's compressed, by which format and it's output resolution.

We're almost half way through 2012 and there is still no 1080p content direct out of your receiver from your cable/sat tv provider. Compression is here forever when it comes to broadcasting, but they are still working on acceptable quality loss without being entirely noticeable via their compression implementation. It will be several more years before we will see 1080p feeds from our broadcast providers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

although the 1713 still retains MultEQ XT from the 1712 model, it otherwise looks pretty stripped down. Last year it was like a "baby CI" model, basically a 1912/2112 clone with some extras like two component video in and one out, remote in/out jacks, etc. At least it still retains XT and it also gains networking which is probably more in demand than the stuff that disappeared.

None of that this year, no component video switching, only 2 analog audio RCA inputs (down from 5 in the 1712).... it basically looks like a 1613 with XT, an extra HDMI input and Zone 2 pre-outs.

Compare the rear layouts:


1712 back panel:




1713 back panel:



I can't believe they riipped HDTV components out. I don't know,I think Denon is going to regret this decision. Makes me sick to my stomach this is being done and no one is calling them out on the floor. The removal of am station listening from owners is completely asinine. It probably cost them more to remove the am then it was to keep it.
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post #471 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:07 PM
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Huh? A 3rd party phono preamp generally costs < $50 and solves the issue of no dedicated PHONO input.

Agreed. But there's still some of us with a lot of vinyl that is not transfered to or even available in digital format. I might be better served to get a USB turntable and rip it to flac on my PC. That way I can convert to mp3 and take it with me too.. I need to stop complaining about it, just deal with it and look for the positive ..

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post #472 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:12 PM
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you can say that again

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post #473 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:18 PM
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The 1912 is now gone from Denon.com, hope the 1913 post comes soon.

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post #474 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:25 PM
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^^
Gotta keep up there grasshopper ... all models from 1513 to 1913 are already up ---> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21944910

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post #475 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:33 PM
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Just made my camelcamelcamel.com and camelbuy.com price tracker for the 3312ci. With the replacements coming about in 6 weeks or so (?) I'm hoping to hit one when they're on sale.


EDIT:

Any comments on getting a refurb other than the warrany? Experience?

I've got refurbed speakers and Harmony remotes before with good luck but never a complex device such as and AVR.

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post #476 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 02:39 PM
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No, I'm saying it is gone from the normal Denon navigation of the website. (without AVS Forum magic)

So, anyway, I think I am now seriously considering the AVR-2112CI seems like it is best of both this years 1913 and 1713.

Now just have to figure out what is different....

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post #477 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 04:14 PM
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Another feature gained is GUI display over 3D video on 1613 and higher models.

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post #478 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Another feature gained is GUI display over 3D video on 1613 and higher models.

Are you saying hdmi overlay (volume,etc displayed on screen) starts at the 1613 now?
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post #479 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 04:54 PM
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old news last year (xx12) it was available on ALL models

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post #480 of 1844 Old 04-24-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
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old news last year (xx12) it was available on ALL models

Wow. I could have sworn full overlay (not just GUI for set up) was reserved for CI models. Guess I didn't pay attention last year! Time to upgrade my 789!
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