When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:00 AM
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I think assignability is more important when you have more input names and types that may be mixed and matched. Especially when for each TYPE of input there aren't enough to account for all potential video input names.

For example, back in the pre-HDMI days when you had a smattering of digital audio inputs (some optical, some coax) and component video inputs, it was very important to be able to mix and match to create the combinations you needed. Even a few years ago, when you had a receiver with, say, 3 HDMI inputs, 3 component video, 2 optical, 2 coax, you would need to be able to configure custom combinations. If you have six video source names (e.g., SAT/CBL, DVD, BLU-RAY, GAME, HDP, DVR) and 3 or 4 HDMI inputs, you NEED assignability.

But with the stripped down back panel of the current models, you are basically just plugging in HDMI cables, so as long as you can rename the inputs you are basically fine. If you notice, the digital audio inputs (1 optical / 1 coax) and the component video input (1913 only) are still assignable. And when a receiver (taking the 1913 or 1713) only has five potential video input sources, and you have five HDMI inputs.... there is no need for assignment because EVERY external video source has an HDMI input available.

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Old 04-26-2012, 11:08 AM
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the crazy thing is that they still have the "Video Select" feature on the lower models even though it still can't be used to select an HDMI video source. So for the 1513, 1613, and 1713 models you can watch a composite video feed from your cable/sat box combined with audio from another (non HDMI) source... whoopie!

they might as well remove that feature at this point... it was already becoming useless with the move to HDMI, and now with component video inputs being stripped out completely it's basically vestigial.

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Old 04-26-2012, 02:13 PM
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^^^^
vestigial - vocab word of the day!

I have to agree - HDMI really does cause too many issues with mixing and matching audio and video from different sources. But... that is for another thread.

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Old 04-26-2012, 02:29 PM
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^^^

actually, it causes no issues at all... as it's not even possible to "mix and match audio and video from different sources when using hdmi"* at the same time, period...

* as currently implemented in any available avr/pre-pro...

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Old 04-26-2012, 02:54 PM
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Ok then under that logic not having a license means you don't have any issues re: not being able to drive.

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

if the 3313 has XT32 it has a chance to be a real winner if they can maintain that sub-$1000 street price. For all the people who want XT32 but aren't going to go beyond 7ch setups, it could be a really popular option. Especially since it can be assumed it will have full 7.2 pre-outs meaning it could be a killer mid-range preamp.

I wanted XT32 and SubEQ. That is why I went with the 4311. You can have XT32 without SubEQ.

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I wanted XT32 and SubEQ. That is why I went with the 4311. You can have XT32 without SubEQ.

Which XT32 units don't have SubEQ? There is no reference (I don't think) to SubEQ in the Denon AVP and AVR-5308CI XT32 upgrades.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


I wanted XT32 and SubEQ. That is why I went with the 4311. You can have XT32 without SubEQ.

.........
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eaadams View Post

Ok then under that logic not having a license means you don't have any issues re: not being able to drive.

well...

technically, no, since just because you don't have a license doesn't mean you can't drive... there is that little "legal" matter, but physically, you can drive... which, thinking about it, may lead to "issues"...

whereas it's a total no go in the avr... you can't get yourself into trouble even if you want to...

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I don't think that's accurate.

I think he's right: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...vs-multeq-xt32

Maybe any XT32 receiver with .2 or .3 designation does make use of SubEQ.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post


I think he's right: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...vs-multeq-xt32

Maybe any XT32 receiver with .2 or .3 designation does make use of SubEQ.

Sam. I'm on my phone.

I meant to say at this point there havnet been any products releases without both.

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

With better audio fidelity ..... all new Onkyo models that feature Audyssey from the 717 on down, only use the most basic version of 2EQ

wow, they stripped down to 2EQ for the 7xx series now? The 709 had MultEQ XT! That's crazy!

And the 818 supposedly has XT32? So it jumps from 2EQ in the 717 to XT32 in the 818? WTF?

I don't understand this strategy by Onkyo, they are pushing 2EQ further UP the chain while Denon is pushing XT down (and doesn't use 2EQ at all). Seems bizarre because Onkyo's strategy seems to be to stuff their receivers as full of features as humanly possible.

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:40 PM
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^^^

yea, it doesn't seem to make sense, but that's exactly what they are doing, based on pre-release specs... there's also scuttlebutt about "gutted" xt32, although i'm not sure what credence that has at this point...

it kinda points to their market research telling them that the average buyer doesn't give a damn about no audyssey hoosey-whatsits...

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:43 PM
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Costs more money to license the better versions of Audyssey, and we know the low-end receiver market has tight margins to begin with.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

it kinda points to their market research telling them that the average buyer doesn't give a damn about no audyssey hoosey-whatsits...

I would imagine for most "entry level" users the fact that 2EQ uses only 3 positions vs. 6 or 8 for higher versions is seen as a BENEFIT because of the simplicity. 1-2-3 done, you are ready to go and your system is calibrated.

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Old 04-26-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Which XT32 units don't have SubEQ? There is no reference (I don't think) to SubEQ in the Denon AVP and AVR-5308CI XT32 upgrades.

Just saying having one does not assure that you have the other. Read this: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...vs-multeq-xt32

Added
I see this has already been posted.

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Old 04-26-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think assignability is more important when you have more input names and types that may be mixed and matched. Especially when for each TYPE of input there aren't enough to account for all potential video input names.

For example, back in the pre-HDMI days when you had a smattering of digital audio inputs (some optical, some coax) and component video inputs, it was very important to be able to mix and match to create the combinations you needed. Even a few years ago, when you had a receiver with, say, 3 HDMI inputs, 3 component video, 2 optical, 2 coax, you would need to be able to configure custom combinations. If you have six video source names (e.g., SAT/CBL, DVD, BLU-RAY, GAME, HDP, DVR) and 3 or 4 HDMI inputs, you NEED assignability.

But with the stripped down back panel of the current models, you are basically just plugging in HDMI cables, so as long as you can rename the inputs you are basically fine. If you notice, the digital audio inputs (1 optical / 1 coax) and the component video input (1913 only) are still assignable. And when a receiver (taking the 1913 or 1713) only has five potential video input sources, and you have five HDMI inputs.... there is no need for assignment because EVERY external video source has an HDMI input available.


Thanks much to you and JakeRobb for your explanations. As it turns out I don't really care as long as I have all the inputs I need and name them after my ex-girlfriends

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Old 04-26-2012, 04:54 PM
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Ok I just bought a 2112CI from EE. Figured it has more than a 1713 and couldn't get a 1713 for the same price.

Throwing out my old: Onkyo 797 vintage 2002 (had a dolby digital EX #fail)
Throwing out my old: Pioneer 521K vintage 2011 (broke, was fixed, broke again, 80 mile rt drive to service = $20 gas , now my 1st Denon)

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Old 04-26-2012, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eaadams View Post

Ok I just bought a 2112CI from EE. Figured it has more than a 1713 and couldn't get a 1713 for the same price.

Throwing out my old: Onkyo 797 vintage 2002 (had a dolby digital EX #fail)
Throwing out my old: Pioneer 521K vintage 2011 (broke, was fixed, broke again, 80 mile rt drive to service = $20 gas , now my 1st Denon)

Congrats-I recently switched to Denon after owning various Pioneers and Onkyos over the years as well. My only regret is not making the change sooner .

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Old 04-26-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

assuming what we have seen from the specs is correct*, yes...

* which can sometimes lead us down the garden path, as the website has been known to list incorrect specs even months after models are released...

I've already started a dialog with Denon for the current corrections necessary to have the 1513 through 1913 accurately reflect the correct specs.

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Old 04-26-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Schlepper View Post

I know I'm looking ahead here but is there any chance there will be phono inputs in the 2113 or 2313? I'd like to stay under $1,000 when I finally upgrade.

Not likely as there's no reason for them to add back what has previously been removed on earlier year models. Your best bet is simply adding an external phono preamp which you can get for $50 or less which you can then connect to the analog inputs of any Denon model.

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Old 04-26-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

So if HDMI 3 is assigned to DVD, but you want to use it for AppleTV, you simply plug the AppleTV into HDMI 3 and then rename HDMI 3 to Apple TV. HDMI 3 will ALWAYS be in the same location in the menu system (cannot reassign it), but you CAN rename it to whatever you want and it will display that new name on the front panel.

Correct?

Correct. However, you'll need to press the DVD button on the remote if using the Denon remote.


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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

As an aside, I want more info on the higher level models! I need at least 9 amps in the AVR.

Then you're looking at either the 4311CI (avail now) or the 4520CI (avail in Sep).

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Old 04-26-2012, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. However, you'll need to press the DVD button on the remote if using the Denon remote.




Then you're looking at either the 4311CI (avail now) or the 4520CI (avail in Sep).

I was hoping the 3313 would have 9 amps. So the 3313 will have 7 amps?
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Briant73 View Post

I am thinking it's time to upgrade to a new receiver and replace my AVR-3803, I looked at the 3312 but it seems the 4311 is the successor to the 38xx line so a few questions come to mind -

I hear you, I just downgraded from my AVR-3803. However I don't know now that the AVR-4311 was the true newer replacement like I originally thought. The AVR-4311 seems to have some improved amplifier designs that the AVR-3803 did not. The AVR-3803 is definitely superior to the newer 3312CI but somewhere inbetween there and the AVR-4311CI.

Since I'm just as much into audio (if not more) than A/V, the newer Denons do not meet my equipment needs with their limited analog inputs and outputs along with limited digital inputs. The Yamaha's and 2011 year Onkyo models are the best connection wise.

I also seen how the industry with their HDMI formats, are not making backward compatibility. Namely with the new 1.4a "3D" HDMI. So you either hook the HDMI directly to your TV and use inferior DD 5.1/DTS 5.1 bitstream feeds or do not use "3D" video at all. The only real solution is to buy a completely new receiver that is compatible to 1.4a HDMI audio and video formats. As is, I no longer will be buying expensive receivers since they go obsolete faster than PCs with all the changing HDMI formats. With receivers for $500, I can afford to upgrade every 3 - 4 years for the newer format. With $1000+ receivers, it's just throwing money away since they are obsolete and the used market is slim (since they are obsolete).

I bought a Yamaha RX-A710 that has an unconventional way of using the connections. Instead of grouping or assigning all connections to a specific input, Yamaha assigns more inputs to each individual connection. Meaning the number of connections are the same as the competitors or slightly more, but the number of usable actual switchable inputs is MORE. With my RX-A710, I can use all of my equipment and have several more free inputs but even with the newer Denon AVR-2312CI and AVR-3312CI, there wasn't enough inputs (or outputs) to accomidate my equipment without external switchers.

I really love my AVR-3803 and don't plan on getting rid of it. I'll save it for a secondary home theater and primary audio room.

I did buy a new receiver now as most new 2012 coming out from Onkyo and Pioneer are deleting all their none HDMI inputs and are completely useless and would not work for my equipment opposed to their previous 2011 models.

The lowest model that would work for most of my needs is the AVR-2312CI but it would require an audio monitor record loop switch box just as would the AVR-3312CI. I don't need that with Yamaha since they offer dedicated A/V outputs for a DVD Recorder and a dedicated Audio output for a CD, MD, or DAT recorder.

Good luck on your decision.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Digitally challe View Post

I was hoping the 3313 would have 9 amps. So the 3313 will have 7 amps?

I'm assuming the 3313 will have preouts so you could add an external 2CH amp that will give you 9 amp channels.

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Old 04-27-2012, 05:16 AM
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Seems unlikely the 3313 will have 9 built in amps. That's still expensive, and of course the 3313 will be at a very hot price point.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Seems unlikely the 3313 will have 9 built in amps. That's still expensive, and of course the 3313 will be at a very hot price point.

It will be hotter with 9 amps .

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Old 04-27-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post


I also seen how the industry with their HDMI formats, are not making backward compatibility. Namely with the new 1.4a "3D" HDMI. So you either hook the HDMI directly to your TV and use inferior DD 5.1/DTS 5.1 bitstream feeds or do not use "3D" video at all. The only real solution is to buy a completely new receiver that is compatible to 1.4a HDMI audio and video formats. As is, I no longer will be buying expensive receivers since they go obsolete faster than PCs with all the changing HDMI formats. With receivers for $500, I can afford to upgrade every 3 - 4 years for the newer format. With $1000+ receivers, it's just throwing money away since they are obsolete and the used market is slim (since they are obsolete).

a) hdmi IS 100% backwards compatible (thank goodness, it would be an unmitigated disaster if it wasn't)... what you are asking for is for old versions to be forwards compatible. as the hardware is different, good luck with that...

b) standard dd/dts from a bdp isn't as "inferior" as many would like to make it out to be...

c) you'd be surprised what you can sell...

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Old 04-27-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

c) you'd be surprised what you can sell...

Any suggestions on a good place to sell nice equipment?

I upgraded to a Denon 2112ci about two months ago...then went and got dual subs. Now I am wanting to upgrade to the 4311 for the dual sub capability...and don't know the best way to get my nearly new 2112 to someone else to enjoy for a good price.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Digitally challe View Post

I was hoping the 3313 would have 9 amps. So the 3313 will have 7 amps?

That is my hope as well. However, looking at how gimped the competetors are, I am not very hopeful.
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