When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

And saying "if you want to buy it then buy it" is not going to make me suddenly stop saying I want it.

Good plan. Don't buy what you want just sit here and complain until Denon decides to add 9 channels to all their AVRs. I'm sure if you just call Denon they would throw you 4 more channels in the 1713 and let you get it for $200. Or just keep complaining because everybody loves reading that.
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post #812 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Works for me as well. Others would cringe at such an idea, ESP the $70 avr. Lol

lol... oh yea, for sure... i ran my outside rocks for quite awhile off of a avr i got at a yardsale for 10 bucks... the only reason i'm not doing that anymore is that i gave it to a buddy of mine who had an emergency avr need... previous to that they ran on an ancient onkyo (that still lives in another friend of mine's house)...

heck, for most of the applications, a nice little t-amp from parts express would be just fine...

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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Read again. That's a $20 avr. Even crappy old Apple gear can sell for $70.


lol... be nice...

i would imagine there's other streaming devices that would work as well (if not better) than the setup i use (atv in main rack, ax's scattered about the house)... for me, this works out well... but i'm a total apple dork when it comes to "home use", other people likely have other suggestions...

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post #813 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:29 AM
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So I have a price quote of $575 delivered from an authorized dealer for the 2312. I have a pretty standard 5.1 system in a 'challenging' room. Can an expert guide me or at least lean me towards going with the 2312 or waiting to see if the 2313 adds anything useful/cool. From previous posts this is to upgrade a HK AVR-635. Does anyone know of anything on the 2313 that would be considered a must have now or in the future?

I believe the 2313 adds DSX (I don't even know what that is) but also removes a number of connections from the rear including one HDMI, correct?

Does the 2313 allow for firmware updates via USB now (I believe 2312 has to be over internet)? Is firmware updates via USB worth the extra cost of a 2313 vs. 2312?

Anything else I need to know to make my decision? Thanks!!!

Lastly, I understand supply of 2312CI are starting to run low so I don't want to miss out on a 2312 if that is the way to go.

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post #814 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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based on what we know:

- the back panel loses the s-video along with one analog audio input (the "dock" input along with the associated control port, basically replaced by USB or streaming audio so no big deal) and one HDMI input, but it gains a second HDMI output. So the connectivity is virtually unchanged. You still have 4 digital audio inputs, 2 component video, 5 analog audio, 3 composite video.

- internal components / processing appear to be unchanged. The power supply is still rated at 600w and the specs are the same so one would assume that amps/internals and overall SQ are identical.

- the new feature gains are 4k video scaling, Audyssey DSX, DSD over HDMI (for SACD use), and some minor changes to the network services menu (adds vTuner, no more Rhapsody, etc).

- the open question is whether the US version will have full 7.2 pre-outs like the EU photos we've seen....

- we haven't seen any actual mention in the manuals of firmware updates via USB, so not sure if this was actually implemented. But with a networked model it's largely a moot point, the benefit was primarily for the non-networked models where you would have to take them into a shop to update for a bug fix.

Basically, if you aren't planning on going beyond 5.1 by adding "wide" speakers (DSX) and aren't into SACD, I would just grab the 2312ci on closeout pricing. I don't think any of the other changes are that compelling, nothing earth shattering was added.

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post #815 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:47 AM
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Bat, any new info available in regards to the 4311 successor and if it too will be losing a lot of analog connections and stuff?
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post #816 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:50 AM
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nope. I don't know anything beyond what you've seen on this thread.

I would not be worried about analog connectivity loss, that seems to be restricted to the lower models (below 23xx level). Note in the post just above yours that the 2312 vs. 2313 is still basically the same in terms of analog connectivity. The only analog audio loss is that dock input which is likely unused now that most people stream their music or use the USB input for an iPod.

Analog/legacy connectivity has stayed pretty strong for 23xx and 33xx level models. On the 4520 I wouldn't be shocked to see s-video phased out completely but otherwise I would expect a pretty complete analog input setup just like the current 4311 has. For $2500msrp they don't need to skimp

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post #817 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:53 AM
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What is vTuner, BTW?

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post #818 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:55 AM
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I have no idea... But I bet google does!

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post #819 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:57 AM
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^^^

dadgummit if you weren't right... amazing thing, that google...

what is vtuner?

- chris

 

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post #820 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 10:58 AM
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Couple more questions..

What is that big button to the right of "Preset Channels" and what is Preset Channels?

Where did the control knob on the lower right go over the last few years? Is everything done by remote now?

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post #821 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:01 AM
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HAHA!

Internet Radio. Guess they don't use RadioDenon anymore? It still works for my ASD 3N and even on my PC..

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post #822 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:02 AM
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Oh Wait.. IIR they're one and the same..

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post #823 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

So with the obvious industry shift towards only HDMI will Zone 2/3 be a thing
of the past?

Or will they keep a few legacy inputs to do the job?

Or we move more to a network model instead of having 1 unit that switches to multiple zones. Not to bring in apple again but think about 3 lowend receiver 'nodes' with airplay like functions to send/receive from other nodes and devices and you route things around. Now how the content providers will react to this and if companies like apple even give them a say in it is a different question .

Daniel.

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post #824 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Couple more questions..

What is that big button to the right of "Preset Channels" and what is Preset Channels?

Where did the control knob on the lower right go over the last few years? Is everything done by remote now?

not sure where you are looking, can you be more specific? I assume though that the "preset channels" allows you to access memorized channels on FM radio or something.

the control knob disappeared a few years ago. On the xx11 models you still had a d-pad and menu/enter buttons on the front panel to access the setup menus, but they dropped that last year on the xx12 models. So yes, you do need the remote to access GUI and setup menus on the current models.

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post #825 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:24 AM
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Pioneer sure stepped up with their new AVRs

Neo:X
Second HDMI zone
The industry's first 192kHz/32-bit asynchronous USB DAC for music-file playback from a USB-connected PC or Mac
The $2,000 and $2,500 models add a third HDMI output


It would be sweet if the Denon 4520 has similar offerings
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post #826 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not sure where you are looking, can you be more specific? I assume though that the "preset channels" allows you to access memorized channels on FM radio or something.

the control knob disappeared a few years ago. On the xx11 models you still had a d-pad and menu/enter buttons on the front panel to access the setup menus, but they dropped that last year on the xx12 models. So yes, you do need the remote to access GUI and setup menus on the current models.

So what happens when your remote breaks? SOL, I guess? I should say that a control knob is much cleaner than a d-pad, aesthetically anyhow.

It looks like a hand or maybe a chair. it is on the lower mid-right of the front panel.

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post #827 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

Pioneer sure stepped up with their new AVRs

Neo:X
Second HDMI zone
The industry's first 192kHz/32-bit asynchronous USB DAC for music-file playback from a USB-connected PC or Mac
The $2,000 and $2,500 models add a third HDMI output


It would be sweet if the Denon 4520 has similar offerings

Well I believe the 3313 is going to have 3 hdmi outs so I'm sure the 4520 would as well. I'm surprised to see 5 SC models now. I guess they had to do something since the 1122 sucks so bad. Unless the new SC series has a better version of MCACC that can eq a sub or two then I'm going to have to pass.
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post #828 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

So what happens when your remote breaks? SOL, I guess?

It looks like a hand or maybe a chair. it is on the lower mid-right of the front panel.

I highly doubt someone would just give up because their remote broke. There are universal remotes for $5 that could handle that. I'm just so shocked at some of the minuscule stuff people worry about.
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post #829 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

Good plan. Don’t buy what you want just sit here and complain until Denon decides to add 9 channels to all their AVRs. I'm sure if you just call Denon they would throw you 4 more channels in the 1713 and let you get it for $200. Or just keep complaining because everybody loves reading that.

Wait, I can buy the 4520 now? Sweet! Please post a link to where I can buy it, since you have a secret source. You ARE saying I should buy what I want and not just wait, so you obviuosly have a source for me to buy the AVR I want.

Thanks in advance for the link! How awesome of you!
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post #830 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

Pioneer sure stepped up with their new AVRs

Neo:X
Second HDMI zone
The industry's first 192kHz/32-bit asynchronous USB DAC for music-file playback from a USB-connected PC or Mac
The $2,000 and $2,500 models add a third HDMI output


It would be sweet if the Denon 4520 has similar offerings

Holy crap, they threw down the gauntlet there! $1600 for an AVR with NeoX 11 channel! 9.2 surround with the ability to go to 11.2 with using external amps and NeoX can use them all. Also is a Class D amp.

Is Audyssey expensive to impliment and license? That would explain the huge price difference between the AVRs.
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post #831 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have no idea... But I bet google does!

Batpig, based on the rate at which you and jdsmoothie shoot out answers, this may save you both some time:

What is vtuner?

It also kinda pisses off some people, always a good time.


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post #832 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I highly doubt someone would just give up because their remote broke. There are universal remotes for $5 that could handle that. I'm just so shocked at some of the minuscule stuff people worry about.

Touche'.

I guess the improved GUI this is better but with my aging AVR-889 combined with the prunned controls offered by logitech, I use that knob more than the remote. If I get a new AVR I suppose I'll need to add batpigs Denon Remote to my account with logitech.

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post #833 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have no idea... But I bet google does!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

dadgummit if you weren't right... amazing thing, that google...

what is vtuner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Batpig, based on the rate at which you and jdsmoothie shoot out answers, this may save you both some time:

What is vtuner?

It also kinda pisses off some people, always a good time.


It didn't piss me off one bit..

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post #834 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

based on what we know:

- the back panel loses the s-video along with one analog audio input (the "dock" input along with the associated control port, basically replaced by USB or streaming audio so no big deal) and one HDMI input, but it gains a second HDMI output. So the connectivity is virtually unchanged. You still have 4 digital audio inputs, 2 component video, 5 analog audio, 3 composite video.

- internal components / processing appear to be unchanged. The power supply is still rated at 600w and the specs are the same so one would assume that amps/internals and overall SQ are identical.

- the new feature gains are 4k video scaling, Audyssey DSX, DSD over HDMI (for SACD use), and some minor changes to the network services menu (adds vTuner, no more Rhapsody, etc).

- the open question is whether the US version will have full 7.2 pre-outs like the EU photos we've seen....

- we haven't seen any actual mention in the manuals of firmware updates via USB, so not sure if this was actually implemented. But with a networked model it's largely a moot point, the benefit was primarily for the non-networked models where you would have to take them into a shop to update for a bug fix.

Basically, if you aren't planning on going beyond 5.1 by adding "wide" speakers (DSX) and aren't into SACD, I would just grab the 2312ci on closeout pricing. I don't think any of the other changes are that compelling, nothing earth shattering was added.

Bat,

Thanks for the very clear response!!! Can you please (in simple terms) explain what each of the following provides as it sounds like the following three items are the only additions to teh 2313 worth mentioning -
4k video scaling
Audyssey DSX (I believe this is specific to 7.1 system but not sure)
DSD over HDMI (for SACD use)

If I ever planned on going 7.1 and 4K video scaling equates to really nothing and I am not into SACD, is the Audyssey DSX enough of a future proof feature that I should go with 2313?
Thanks!

Jutter is gone..zipadeedoodah zipadeeday!!!
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post #835 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Wait, I can buy the 4520 now? Sweet! Please post a link to where I can buy it, since you have a secret source. You ARE saying I should buy what I want and not just wait, so you obviuosly have a source for me to buy the AVR I want.

Thanks in advance for the link! How awesome of you!

Well then why are you crying about the lower end models not having 9 channels if you are getting the 4520? You cry because the low end models don't have 9 channels and then you cry because the 4520 is not out yet. Nobody wants to hear all that crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Touche'.

I guess the improved GUI this is better but with my aging AVR-889 combined with the prunned controls offered by logitech, I use that knob more than the remote. If I get a new AVR I suppose I'll need to add batpigs Denon Remote to my account with logitech.

I use a harmony with my 3311 and it works perfect. I don't know what I would do without my harmony now. I never even put the batteries in the remote that came with the 3311.
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post #836 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 02:22 PM
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Not for nothing but does anyone else think that this back and forth about this one and that one crying about this and that a little immature? I thought this was a thread about the new Denon AVRs coming out. At least thats what the thread title says.

Bill

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post #837 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Batpig, based on the rate at which you and jdsmoothie shoot out answers, this may save you both some time:

What is vtuner?

It also kinda pisses off some people, always a good time.


I love lmgtfy... I was just posting that from my iPhone so it was too much trouble in this instance

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post #838 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

Bat,

Thanks for the very clear response!!! Can you please (in simple terms) explain what each of the following provides as it sounds like the following three items are the only additions to teh 2313 worth mentioning -
4k video scaling
Audyssey DSX (I believe this is specific to 7.1 system but not sure)
DSD over HDMI (for SACD use)

If I ever planned on going 7.1 and 4K video scaling equates to really nothing and I am not into SACD, is the Audyssey DSX enough of a future proof feature that I should go with 2313?
Thanks!

- 4k video scaling: this IMHO is a pretty useless feature unless you are a super early adopter with deep pockets. Even then, the utility is limited. We are still a few years away from 4k resolution displays, and even further away from 4k source content. Even if you upgrade to a 4k display, it will have its own video processing so 1080p (and lower) sources can be scaled to native resolution (just like any 1080p display today). By the time this is mainstream and you actually care about it, you will probably have another AVR anyway.

- DSD over HDMI: this allows you to 'bitstream' the native SACD signal from a compatible player over HDMI. This is basically an audiophile-only feature if you are (1) the type of rare music nut that is still collecting SACD and (2) you are enough of a "purist" that you don't want the player doing the processing for you. So this totally depends on your personal level of SACD obsession.

- Audyssey DSX: this allows you to expand beyond 5.1 channels by adding "wide" and/or "height" speakers. In the case of the 2313 you can only do one or the other. It is ONLY useful in this specific situation. The 2312ci of course can already expand to "traditional" 7.1 (back surrounds) and you can also do "height" speakers with Dolby PLIIz, so the only significant advantage is if you really want to add "wide" speakers.

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post #839 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Not for nothing but does anyone else think that this back and forth about this one and that one crying about this and that a little immature? I thought this was a thread about the new Denon AVRs coming out. At least thats what the thread title says.

Bill

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post #840 of 1844 Old 05-02-2012, 03:27 PM
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in reference to the potential for the upcoming 4520 hdmi matrixing discussion we had earlier...

on the surface, it appears as if pioneer has at least put something similar into their new totl model...

remains to be seen if it's anything but a straight repeat... we shall see...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21976903

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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