When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:54 AM
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Any speculation on whether the 4520CI will have Denon's Advanced AL32 processing?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

the specs couldn't get changed at this point anyway... you REALLY think that they throw specs out there and react to what people post on message boards and change them?

Yep, that is what I said. Since nothing can be changed at this point, why bother waiting to put out the info?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post


I'm 99% sure the 3313 doesn't have XT32. I think it would have been mentioned in the German show report.

no, I am native German Speaker, in the Text form the german site nothing is mentioned about the Audyssey features of the 3313. I told this in my post before especially.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

So no replacement for my old AVR4810 or 4311 yet?

I want the DenonLink4, the higher quality DACs and full 11 channel support (I have enough external power amps so I don't need 11 channels of internal power) with XT32, LFC, DTS Neo X and DSX.

I think we already lost one product cycle to Onkyo.

Before you get too hung-up on DenonLink 4, I'd like to give you some real world advice. DenonLink 3 capabilities are great. If you are trying to get DenonLink 3 capabilities by getting DL4 then I'm in 100% agreement.

If however you are trying the get the DL4 anti-jitter capability then, to me, it doesn't seem worthwhile. First the DL4 is difficult to get to work and only works with Blu-Ray discs. It does not send audio but instead sends an ultrastable clock which may or may not produce an audible effect on BD audio. The real difficulty is finding the steps to make it work (even though DL3 capabilities are working great).

There are a number of AVSForum pages that discuss the difficulties of getting DL4 to work (apparentlly HDMI Control may have to be enabled throughout the HDMI chain). I haven't read anyone's comments yet that talked about it being an audio improvement once they got it working.

Again, this is DL4 I'm talking about. I've heard and appreciate the DL3 benefits.

I don't think it has been revealed what DL HD is yet. So all of the above may be a moot point. The connector change might mean that all the previous DVD and BD players are no longer compatible.

Don't know if that insight helps but I thought it might...
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I don't think the licensing of the 3313 was finalized yet, as evident by the blank front panel with no logos. Obviously anything could happen, but I still think they'll hold out XT32 for a 4xxx series model.

You could be right. But if Denon is saving XT32 for the 4520 or other 4xxx series AVRs with MSRPs over $2K it is a mistake IMO. Not to beat a dead horse but Onkyo will have the upper hand as far as XT32 goes. If the 818 will have it I would think the rumored 1010 the replacement for the 1009 will have XT32 as well. The 1009 has an MSRP of $1399 so I would assume the 1010 would be in that ball park price wise. The 1009 has a 7.1 analog input and 9.2 preouts so if the 1010 follows suit with XT32 added that might be the route I will take. I've been a long time Onkyo owner but I wanted to try a Denon for a little change. The 4311 would be in my rack now but the cost is just out of my budget right now.

Bill

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Old 05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The 4311 would be in my rack now but the cost is just out of my budget right now.

Bill

The 4311 can be had for the same price as the expected MSRP of the 3313.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

The 4311 can be had for the same price as the expected MSRP of the 3313.

The 4311s I have seen at the $1299 price point were factory refurbished units. I'll keep my eyes open though. The $799 deal at Vann's would be perfect.

Bill

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Old 05-03-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Better video processing capability (ie. upscales to 4k) ... yes .... better audio processing .... not likely.

Are 4K tv even available yet?
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

You could be right. But if Denon is saving XT32 for the 4520 or other 4xxx series AVRs with MSRPs over $2K it is a mistake IMO. Not to beat a dead horse but Onkyo will have the upper hand as far as XT32 goes. If the 818 will have it I would think the rumored 1010 the replacement for the 1009 will have XT32 as well. The 1009 has an MSRP of $1399 so I would assume the 1010 would be in that ball park price wise. The 1009 has a 7.1 analog input and 9.2 preouts so if the 1010 follows suit with XT32 added that might be the route I will take. I've been a long time Onkyo owner but I wanted to try a Denon for a little change. The 4311 would be in my rack now but the cost is just out of my budget right now.

Bill

I'm in same situation but I'm a Denon owner and would like try Onkyo for a change. I was waiting for the 4311 to get under 1k but I have no idea when that will be. The 818 will hopefully have a similar street price as the 809. Having owned the 3310 and 3311 it would be hard to turn down the 3313 if it has XT32. I was not a fan of the looks of the 3312 so it's good to see they brought back the flip down panel on the 3313 this year. If the 3313 doesn't have XT32 then the decision becomes pretty easy. I don't think it will be difficult to find either receiver under 1k within 1 or 2 months of release, maybe sooner.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The 4311s I have seen at the $1299 price point were factory refurbished units. I'll keep my eyes open though. The $799 deal at Vann's would be perfect.

Bill

I got a brand new 4311CI for $1280 shipped last weeks from Electronics Expo (authorized Denon e-tailer).

Factory refurbs are (were?) $1032 shipped.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

The 4311 can be had for the same price as the expected MSRP of the 3313.

The denons last year were 20% off msrp from the time they released. I don't know of the pricing policy will change this year but I bet the 3313 will be under 1k street. Even the 3310 that has an MSRP of 1499 was easily found under 1k.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Yep, that is what I said. Since nothing can be changed at this point, why bother waiting to put out the info?

1. To continue to sell previous models rather than have people wait for new products.
2. To annoy people like you.

Your choice.

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

1. To continue to sell previous models rather than have people wait for new products.
2. To annoy people like you.

Your choice.

lol does not annoy me, just wonder why they bother waiting.

The lost the ability for 1 as soon as word hit the street that the new one was going to arrive in a few months. At that point, people who would buy the previous model started to wait and see if the new model was worth buying instead.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^ Also note that the European models are always in silver while the USA are black.

Not true. Here in Scandinavia the only current Denon model in 2 colours is 4311. All others come in Model T black. I assume for cost/inventory mgt purposes.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by swizzchard View Post


Are 4K tv even available yet?

Yes, Sony has a projector that will show 4K. That's probably the cheapest option right now that's available. JVC has a projector that will upscale HD to 4K but won't accept native 4K.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

lol does not annoy me, just wonder why they bother waiting.

The lost the ability for 1 as soon as word hit the street that the new one was going to arrive in a few months. At that point, people who would buy the previous model started to wait and see if the new model was worth buying instead.

Sorry, you seem easy to annoy, my mistake.

Wrong. Check the deals and 4311 threads, these things are still flying off the shelves, and that's just from the people in this forum. I'm one of them. Also consider that many people don't hear 'word on the street' or do the level of research that many here do.

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I don't think the licensing of the 3313 was finalized yet, as evident by the blank front panel with no logos. Obviously anything could happen, but I still think they'll hold out XT32 for a 4xxx series model.

I believe the XX12 series moved the logos to the top edge instead of on the front face to provide a cleaner look. The XX13 logos are likely in the same location.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bruneti View Post

I believe the XX12 series moved the logos to the top edge instead of on the front face to provide a cleaner look. The XX13 logos are likely in the same location.

Interesting, I didn't realize that. That seems to be a new trend.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Sorry, you seem easy to annoy, my mistake.

Nah, it is actually quite hard to annoy me. Easy to get me to slap you around, which is fun, but hard to annoy me. You need to kick the back of my seat repeatedly to annoy me.

Quote:


Wrong. Check the deals and 4311 threads, these things are still flying off the shelves, and that's just from the people in this forum. I'm one of them. Also consider that many people don't hear 'word on the street' or do the level of research that many here do.

Because the price point of the 4311 is akin to that of the upcoming 3313. Given the same price, but superiour features, it is easy to see why the 4311 is selling well.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:44 PM
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What would be the purpose for having two HDMI out? Comparing connecitibility of 2312 vs. 2313, you lose one HDMI in from the back, lose AM, lose S video connections, gain 1 HDMI out and pre-amp outs. I don't ever see using pre-amp outs and not sure if I would ever use a second HDMI out - you run one HDMI from reciever to display and you are done. Can someone give an example of why you would need a 2nd HDMI out? To me, I don't think you can have too many HDMI in.

I actually think the 2312 looks better so I am getting close to pulling the trigger on it. Anyone see any upgrades to 2313 other than what was posted by Bat two days ago now that the specs are available from the UK site?

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Old 05-03-2012, 12:57 PM
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[quote=MCF34;21980681]What would be the purpose for having two HDMI out? Comparing connecitibility of 2312 vs. 2313, you lose one HDMI in from the back, lose AM, lose S video connections, gain 1 HDMI out and pre-amp outs. I don't ever see using pre-amp outs and not sure if I would ever use a second HDMI out - you run one HDMI from reciever to display and you are done. Can someone give an example of why you would need a 2nd HDMI out? To me, I don't think you can have too many HDMI in.
QUOTE]

In case you are running 2 displays. I.E projector and tv.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:58 PM
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^^^

this...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

this...

Thanks. That is what I thought and I don't ever percieve running two displays off a single AVR so the 2312 is looking better and better. I would rather have more imputs than outputs. The best I have been quoted is $575 delivered from an authorized dealer NIB. If anyone has beat this from an AD please PM me the details. Thanks!

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

Thanks. That is what I thought and I don't ever percieve running two displays off a single AVR so the 2312 is looking better and better. I would rather have more imputs than outputs. The best I have been quoted is $575 delivered from an authorized dealer NIB. If anyone has beat this from an AD please PM me the details. Thanks!

That seems pretty good for new. You can get an openbox from Amazon for $20 cheaper but I think I would pay the extra $20 to get a new one. You could also get a refurb $75 less from A4L.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

Thanks. That is what I thought and I don't ever percieve running two displays off a single AVR so the 2312 is looking better and better. I would rather have more imputs than outputs. The best I have been quoted is $575 delivered from an authorized dealer NIB. If anyone has beat this from an AD please PM me the details. Thanks!

That's a good quote right now. About $15 less than I just paid.

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:35 PM
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Just wondering why you guys are discussing the XX12's in the XX13 thread?

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

What would be the purpose for having two HDMI out? Comparing connecitibility of 2312 vs. 2313, you lose one HDMI in from the back, lose AM, lose S video connections, gain 1 HDMI out and pre-amp outs. I don't ever see using pre-amp outs and not sure if I would ever use a second HDMI out - you run one HDMI from reciever to display and you are done. Can someone give an example of why you would need a 2nd HDMI out? To me, I don't think you can have too many HDMI in.

I actually think the 2312 looks better so I am getting close to pulling the trigger on it. Anyone see any upgrades to 2313 other than what was posted by Bat two days ago now that the specs are available from the UK site?

Sure - that's easy. If you own a projector many times you don't want to take the time to start it up for a look at a menu item or something similar. So an LCD or plasma is also connect for those nuisance needs. And, projector bulbs are expensive...
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I would say that the US version of the 3313 will have preouts, most likely 7.2. I would also assume you could assign the 3313's amps to specific channels. So adding a 2 or 3 channel amp would enable the 3313 to be used in a 9.1 configuration.

I would NOT assume that at all. That's not how the 3311 or 3312 worked, they were 7ch models, period, even with external amps.

And note the back panel layout of the 3313 from the photo in the article features only 7.2 pre-outs, just like the 3311/3312. This implies that the receiver will only do 7ch processing, I do NOT think it's reasonable to assume it can be expanded to 9ch with an external amp:


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Old 05-03-2012, 04:01 PM
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Can't an HDMI switch be used for less that $50 for two HDMI outs? Of course there's the Zone 2/3 stuff in the 33XX too.

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

so far, what i'm reading on this and the pio thread (which granted isn't much), it appears as if the "hdmi out" to the zone is exactly that, hdmi out only (not processed)... not "process hdmi and send it to a zone"... so it "appears" as if it's acting as a matrix switch for that... that would be exactly what many of us "need", but not what many have asked for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

So are you saying that you think it will not be able to assign a hdmi to a specific zone or something else? I don't quite understand the term process and not processed and what limitation that would have.

Here's the distinction:

- the "what many have asked for" that Chris refers to is a "true" HDMI zone 2 implementation, whereby the receiver would have two separate HDMI decoders built in. Therefore, you could, for example, be watching a Blu-ray via HDMI in main zone, and simultaneously in the background be decoding music via HDMI from your Apple TV and piping it to the patio speakers in zone 2 outside. That's what he means by "process", the ability to decode the 2nd HDMI feed, and then process/downmix to stereo output for multizone.

This is the part that is probably NEVER going to happen.

- the distinction with how it's probably going to be implemented (the "matrix" switch function that Chris refers to) is that the receiver will be able to PASS the 2nd HDMI signal off to another zone for processing. There would not be a 2nd HDMI decoder built in, so you couldn't take that 2nd HDMI feed and pipe it directly to an amplifier for sound. Rather, the "Zone 2 HDMI" will need an external HDMI decoder (e.g., another HDMI receiver or display) to process/decode the HDMI signal.

So, what you are likely going to be able to do with that "Zone 2 HDMI" is, for example, be watching a Blu-ray via HDMI in the living room, while simultaneously passively passing through the HDMI feed from your cable box to the TV in the bedroom so wife can watch TV. Or you could have that 2nd HDMI feed another HDMI receiver in the other room for a second setup.

So it would be HDMI matrix distribution, but not a "true" zone 2 in the sense that the receiver can't do the processing/decoding on the 2nd hdmi feed. In that zone 2 there will need to be some other device that will receive the HDMI signal and decode it before it become sound/video.

So, basically you can think of it as the receiver simultaneously having the ability to do HDMI decoding and also "standby passthrough" of a 2nd HDMI feed to go somewhere else in the house. The benefit being that you can feed two rooms with HDMI content without having to have two Blu-ray players, two cable boxes, etc.

that's my take at least....

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