When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

A/B speakers are not Zone 2. The 889 and 2312 are identical with respect to Zone 2 as I said above. Both can do Zone 2 without a separate amp if you are willing to run 5.1 in the main zone.

But if you want to do A/B speakers you can reassign the extra two amps to "front B". You "lose" two speaker posts but they aren't independently amp'd, the A and B speakers posts are just mirrors of each other. There are still 7 amps in both receivers.

That said, I am surprised, considering your recent posts, that you don't just want to stream wirelessly.

I thought that when it was set to B in the 889 that only the second pair of posts that I never used produced audio and the other 7 didn't so this is what I'm confusing with Zone 2. Zone 2 allows the AVR to be the control point for another amp in another zone that only plays stereo, correct?

That would work for me as nothing is wired in that location and wireless isn't all that reliable (suppose for stereo it is). The thing is that the AVR is at the front of the house in the Family Room which is a good 75 feet from the rear patio plus whatever to get it through the attic and whatnot.

I probably won't ever use Zone 2 in this AVR either. I got it mostly because I liked the advanced GUI but I didn't want to pay more for a phono amp and HD radio.

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post #992 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I purchased that $500.00 cable and did my own listening tests Vs an inexpensive CAT 5 cable:

of course I heard no difference (Denon AVP and DBP-4010UDCI) and the blue light lit with the exact same intensity with either cable: I returned the 'audiophile' cable

I made my own DL cable last night. 2 ft. in length, cost $0.31.

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post #993 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I made my own DL cable last night. 2 ft. in length, cost $0.31.

But yours probably doesn't have arrows showing the direction the bits travel most efficiently

Those are worth at least $499.69
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post #994 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

For those put off by the few joking references to $500 cables a few pages back, prior and current DL players come with a std inexpensive CAT5 (DL) cable in the box. Denon has produced an expensive "audiophile" DL cable but of course there is no reason to think that fanciness would make any audible difference whatsoever, as is the case for other digital transmission cables like optical, coax and HDMI.

As to DLHD, I was given no specifics by the Denon rep at AudioKarma, just a tease, "Oh, there's a big new development in DL...."

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post


I purchased that $500.00 cable and did my own listening tests Vs an inexpensive CAT 5 cable:

of course I heard no difference (Denon AVP and DBP-4010UDCI) and the blue light lit with the exact same intensity with either cable: I returned the 'audiophile' cable to Amazon

Hi SOM...
I have been lurking on several threads and have appreciated your posts a lot...thanks to you and others who share their knowledge and experience.
I have a 4311 and a 4310 but no shiny disk spinner with DL...have thought about trying it out. I had decided to wait for the 2013 players and get one this fall (October
is mentioned in a previous post) apparently the DBT-1713UD will NOT have DLHD...but now I'm worried about compatibility with my 4310 and 11...the appearance of the new connection for DLHD on the rear panel of the AVR-3313 concerns me. Wonder if DLHD will be backwards compatible with DL 3/4??
Have found a refurb DBP-4010 online for a very tempting price from an AD....also found (to my surprise) another AD offering NIB DBP-A100 at an attractive price w/5 year warranty...cable included!
In all seriousness do you think Denon will offer a DLHD out to DL 3/4 "adapter" cable?? That input on the back panel of the German 3313 has been called "coax" by some posters here...it looks almost like a 1/4 inch instrument/line in to me, bigger than the digital coax ins to the left in the photo.
So my dilemma...just get an OPPO BD-93 and forget about DL...or grab one of these older DL 3/4 players from an AD while I still can....I know you have suggested tracking down used DL3 players but I have to admit I'm gun shy about buying used equipment online and shipped...guess I'm old school...most all of my gear is from brick and mortar stores. Buying an OPPO and/or a 4010/A100 will pull me out of that comfort zone! Any advice? Is the difference between the 4010 and A100 mostly cosmetic (like the AVR 4311 and AVR A100) ? I know about the warranty... 1 year on refurb 4010 vs paying more to get the A100 with 5 years on close out NIB...I will admit the fact neither one of these players bitstream DSD over HDMI bothers me along with the SACD to PCM decimation at 44.1 kHz / 16 bit...will I like DL3 so much for RB CD, SACD and DVD-A that it won't matter? And what about that 3rd blue light??
BTW I run 2 5.1 systems with Paradigm vs6 mini-monitors and a single Polk 10 inch sub in each room...I hope to get better subs sometime soon...also run a 2.0 zone 2 with 2 old Paradigm floorstanders (Phantoms)...haven't tried the 2 sub thing yet....
One impulse buy I regret...a Marantz UD-5005...somewhat discounted by BB...however I will say it does bitstream DSD over HDMI plus DSD to 88.2 kHz PCM which is nice...RB CD and SD DVD up-conversion are the main negatives...slow and quirky UI as well...
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post #995 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

And 1712 for me as I do not care for airplay or any internet streaming..

If you haven't seen it yet, $249 for the 1712 now... Jump on that deal!

http://slickdeals.net/f/4341110-Deno...AwAAAAAGOkI9dg

John
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post #996 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Are you sure it's not AL24 processing (which works on PCM signals but not bitstreamed audio) which is responsible for the difference you are hearing between MPCM tracks and TrueHD/DTSMA?

I have also tried it with and without DL4 and against an Oppo 83, 93 and then 95.

i found virtually no difference with the DBP4010 and the Oppos without the DL4 engaged but there were differences in the video. The 4010 was less grainy in dark scenes compared to my 83.
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post #997 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

If you haven't seen it yet, $249 for the 1712 now... Jump on that deal!

http://slickdeals.net/f/4341110-Deno...AwAAAAAGOkI9dg

John

Audiholics is not on authorized dealer list
http://usa.denon.com/us/wheretobuy/p....aspx?type=All
The warranty may be no good ..
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post #998 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 06:42 PM
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^^
As noted on the Slickdeals webpage, Audioholics is indeed an authorized "on-line" reseller.

http://usa.denon.com/us/wheretobuy/p...eetailers.aspx

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post #999 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

If you haven't seen it yet, $249 for the 1712 now... Jump on that deal!

http://slickdeals.net/f/4341110-Deno...AwAAAAAGOkI9dg

John

It's too late now. But I saw it at the right time. But did not jump. I could have had it for $225. But oh well..
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post #1000 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post

It's too late now. But I saw it at the right time. But did not jump. I could have had it for $225. But oh well..

It'll probably come back at $250 somewhere, so keep an eye out. $225 would have been a great price.

John
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post #1001 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

Hi SOM...
I have been lurking on several threads and have appreciated your posts a lot...thanks to you and others who share their knowledge and experience.
Hi david. I'm glad if I've been of any help. I've learned much on this forum and am pleased to "give something back" when I can.

I have a 4311 and a 4310 but no shiny disk spinner with DL...have thought about trying it out. I had decided to wait for the 2013 players and get one this fall (October is mentioned in a previous post) apparently the DBT-1713UD will NOT have DLHD..but now I'm worried about compatibility with my 4310 and 11...the appearance of the new connection for DLHD on the rear panel of the AVR-3313 concerns me. Wonder if DLHD will be backwards compatible with DL 3/4??
I have no insider info but see additional thoughts below.


Have found a refurb DBP-4010 online for a very tempting price from an AD....also found (to my surprise) another AD offering NIB DBP-A100 at an attractive price w/5 year warranty...cable included!...So my dilemma...just get an OPPO BD-93 and forget about DL...or grab one of these older DL 3/4 players from an AD while I still can....I know you have suggested tracking down used DL3 players but I have to admit I'm gun shy about buying used equipment online and shipped...
I've not been ripped off buying used gear on Audiogon and the risk/buy in for a DL3 player is not high, but I can certainly recommend the A100, and NIB is very nice indeed. Just confirm the AD's return policy. Defective units should be exchanged for free or fully refunded at no cost to you for at least 7 days after delivery. There are practically no more A100s to be had. On the other hand, there will probably be great clearance deals on 4010s later, and by then you will likely know more about the new players and DLHD.

Is the difference between the 4010 and A100 mostly cosmetic (like the AVR 4311 and AVR A100) ?
Yes, probably it is much like the AVR A100/4311 minor differences. I like the longer warranty (it does have moving parts!), that the unit was tested to specs before leaving the factory and the likely higher resale value.

I know about the warranty... 1 year on refurb 4010 vs paying more to get the A100 with 5 years on close out NIB...I will admit the fact neither one of these players bitstream DSD over HDMI bothers me along with the SACD to PCM decimation at 44.1 kHz / 16 bit...will I like DL3 so much for RB CD, SACD and DVD-A that it won't matter?
Yes you will and yes none of those limitations that apply to non-DL output will matter one bit (no pun intended).
And what about that 3rd blue light??
Fear not, if you get a DBPA100/4010, we'll get it to work. I loved my Oppos but you'd have to pry DL out of my....

We do know that prior DL advances have been backwards compatible and it doesn't really make sense for Denon to annoy us current DL guys without an awfully good reason. And I will be quite surprised if DLHD further improves shiny disc music SQ over the SQ of DL3. But

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #1002 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 07:59 PM
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Thanks SoM for your reply. I appreciate your advice and willingness to help. It will be interesting to see how the 2013 line plays out in the coming months...
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post #1003 of 1844 Old 05-04-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

It'll probably come back at $250 somewhere, so keep an eye out. $225 would have been a great price.

John

I agree and that's why I am kicking myself..
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post #1004 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post


The zone 2 HDMI on this really interests me. I was looking at getting a 3312, but now I think I'll hold off... I wonder what the limitations will be on this. As has already been mentioned, I doubt it will be able to pull the audio off of the hdmi going to zone two. Hopefully we'll still be able to pass 2 channel PCM from optical/coax to zone 2.
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post #1005 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Get a 4311CI for $1299. That is the replacement for the 3808 and does what you need.

Strange as it may seem, a new 4311CI is still $2099 on Amazon?

Electronics Expo no longer list it as part of their inventory - have they sold out?
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post #1006 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 04:18 PM
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^^
Why strange? That's MSRP. Also EE doesn't generally list an item on their website if it is out of stock.

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post #1007 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post

Strange as it may seem, a new 4311CI is still $2099 on Amazon?

Electronics Expo no longer list it as part of their inventory - have they sold out?

I spoke with EE last week and they said the 4311 will be back in stock next week.

Bill

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post #1008 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 05:48 PM
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The new XX13 Denon remotes are unique for each model from 1513 - 1913 (ie. no longer include features only on higher models), with the 1913 and higher using the same remote. While all remotes gain a new INFO button, all but the 1513 remote lose the "CH Level" and "Quick Select" buttons. To change channel levels on the fly will require going into the Manual setup menu on the 1613 and higher models.

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post #1009 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 09:30 PM
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nice catch JD, looking at the manual it looks like the INFO button will call up the info/status display on the TV screen (which on prior models would only appear when you first selected an input or changed a surround mode). That's actually a very nice addition, especially as the front panel display continues to get stripped down and the user is more reliant on the GUI on the TV screen to interface with the unit. Also helpful since the "Information" menu is now buried another level down in the "General" section of the GUI.

It would be cool if they brought back the speaker icons (input/output) were part of the INFO display but doesn't appear to be so.

Surprised to see the demise of the CH LEVEL button, that's one that has stuck around for a long long time

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post #1010 of 1844 Old 05-05-2012, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

Hopefully we'll still be able to pass 2 channel PCM from optical/coax to zone 2.

I think it's safe to assume that this feature will be retained for traditional zone 2 applications (i.e. using the stereo pre-outs) as it's been a part of 28xx or higher Denon models for many years.

However (and this may or not have been what you meant) it is HIGHLY unlikely that any non-HDMI source will be converted for the HDMI zone 2 output. That zone 2 HDMI output is almost certainly just a simple "matrix" switch meaning it will passively send through a secondary HDMI input but I will eat my words if you can convert other inputs to that HDMI output for zone 2.

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post #1011 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

However (and this may or not have been what you meant) it is HIGHLY unlikely that any non-HDMI source will be converted for the HDMI zone 2 output. That zone 2 HDMI output is almost certainly just a simple "matrix" switch meaning it will passively send through a secondary HDMI input but I will eat my words if you can convert other inputs to that HDMI output for zone 2.

Thankfully, that's not what I'm looking for. In my condo, I've got a 5.1 setup in my living room with HDMI run to the main TV. The AVR (and all associated gear) is hidden in a central closet, with zone 2 speakers in my bedroom, along with a smaller TV. All of this draws back to a central closet and is actually quite neatly done now. The HDMI for the two TVs is connected to the main zone via a Monoprice splitter.

However, currently, to get the video source to the bedroom TV, I have my harmony setup to bring up both the main zone and zone 2, set the video source, then mute the speakers in the main zone. Kinda clunky, but works reasonably well.

This brings up another important question... Will component->HDMI conversion work on zone 2? It's not that important, but I'm still using an old Panasonic DVD player that outputs 480p via component.
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post #1012 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 11:03 AM
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First update via network already released for the 1713. Updating now so not sure what has changed.

I can confirm that Harmony's 1712 codes work for the most part with the 1713. A few codes have to be learned like Info, Option, Page Up, Page Down, and a couple others.
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post #1013 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 03:38 PM
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Hi All,

I'm trying to decide between purchasing a 1713 and 2112CI, I figure with over the phone prices, the 1713 is still gonna be $50 - $100 cheaper than the discounted 2112.

I have a 5.1 setup and all hdmi inputs so I don't care about those features on the 2112; by the time I'm ready to move to 7.1 I will want a newer receiver. The things I do care about: MultiEQ XT, Zone-2 preouts, updates via network, and Airplay are present in both models.

I have a natural inclination to lean towards the 1713, not just because it is cheaper and within my ($400 budget) but also because it is newer and thus may potentially receive more updates and work better with Denon's forthcoming android app. I also hear there was a Zone 2 airplay issue with the XX12 models that was solved in XX13...is that true?

I don't plan on buying the Audyssey pro installer kit, are there any other features that come with the CI model that might tip the scales? Any home automation endeavors I undertake would more likely be via the network protocol than RS-232.

Any other reason for going with the "older" 2112?
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^^
Sounds like the 1713 would serve you well. Yes, the Airplay limitation on the XX12 models (hijacking the main zone when playing in Zone 2) has reportedly been resolved in the XX13 models. As far as updates, go, no reason it believe it would receive "more" updates than the 2112CI ... ideally you would want less actually which would imply they got it right the first time. Keep in mind that "updates" resolve fixes, while "upgrades" add new features. The only known feature to be added via a firmware "upgrade" is Spotify which will be added to the 1913 and "CI" models only.

Also note that only the 2312CI/2313CI and 3312CI/3313CI are Audyssey Pro ready, so the kit ($700) cannot be even be used on the 2112CI/2113CI or lower models.

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post #1015 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
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^^
Sounds like the 1713 would serve you well. Yes, the Airplay limitation on the XX12 models (hijacking the main zone when playing in Zone 2) has reportedly been resolved in the XX13 models. As far as updates, go, no reason it believe it would receive "more" updates than the 2112CI ... ideally you would want less actually which would imply they got it right the first time. Keep in mind that "updates" resolve fixes, while "upgrades" add new features. The only known feature to be added via a firmware "upgrade" is Spotify which will be added to the 1913 and "CI" models only.

Also note that only the 2312CI/2313CI and 3312CI/3313CI are Audyssey Pro ready, so the kit ($700) cannot be even be used on the 2112CI/2113CI or lower models.

Cool, thanks for the info. Very useful.
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post #1016 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 08:48 PM
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I came across this website showing info on the 2113CI but I question its accuracy. It's indicating that it has an AM and FM radio and that Rhapsody is included in the mix. Those aren't on the lower models (save the one that has AM).

Denon 7.1 Channel Audio-Video Home Theater Receiver AVR-2113CI
90Watts into 7 channels
6 x HDMI v1.4a
Analog to HDMI Conversion
iPod Direct USB
Dolby Pro Logic IIz
MultEQ XT
AirPlay-Rhapsody-Flickr
With its vast array of inputs and Network functions, the Denon AVR-2113CI 7.1-Channel Integrated Network A/V Receiver puts you in command. As the entry-level model of the IN-Command Series, this receiver sets a new standard in 3D, Blu-ray, game console, and other entertainment device integration. The AVR-2113CI features seven Discrete 90-watt Channels of equal power and multiple high-resolution Audio formats for superior Surround Sound audio performance. It also supports HDMI v1.4a, so you can get the most out of 3D content. Enhanced by Digital network audio/photo Streaming capabilities, including support for AirPlay, mp3/WMA/WAV and FLAC HD audio, and Windows 7 compatibility, the AVR-2112CI is a solid foundation for your networked home entertainment system.

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
Channels What is this? 7.1
Video Inputs 6
Networking Ethernet Wired
HDMI 6
Component Video Input 1
Audio Inputs 8
Type of Receiver Home Theater Surround
Watts per channel 90
Radio Frequencies AM and FM
Dolby Pro Logic Surround Yes
USB Included
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post #1017 of 1844 Old 05-06-2012, 11:48 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7WBdGSeG-ws
Denon AVR-3313 First Look Munich High-End 2012

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1...3/avr-3313.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQUuqAXtdI
German Youtube video of the AVR-3313

The 3313 is 7.1, 7/3 HDMI, LAN, 4K, Airplay, XT32, PreOut. 1299 Euro
The 2313 is 7.1, 6/2 HDMI, LAN, 4K, PreOut, Airplay, MultiEQ XT, 899 Euro
The 2113 is 7.1, 6/1 HDMI, LAN, 4K, Airplay, MultiEQ XT, 599 Euro

http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/Product/Pa...ductId=AVR2113




http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/Product/Pa...ductId=AVR2313


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post #1018 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 02:58 AM
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Do any of the XX12 or XX13 AVR's allow me to play audio and/or video from a hard drive attached to the AVR (to the USB port, for example)?

As for the DLNA client on these AVR's: Will it play 1080P60 .m2ts files (produced by Panasonic HD videocameras)?

Thanks.
Aloke
PS:2113 is looking real good. How does that compare to 2312?
Can't wait till these XX13 get added to the FAQ at the top of the forums ...
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post #1019 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 03:40 AM
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^^
Yes, as long as the HDD is either FAT16 (2GB) or FAT32 (2TB) formatted and all songs on a single partition. The type of DLNA files listed in the Owner manuals are WMA, MP3, WAV, MPEG-4, FLAC, and JPEG but no .m2ts.

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post #1020 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7WBdGSeG-ws
Denon AVR-3313 First Look Munich High-End 2012

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1...3/avr-3313.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQUuqAXtdI
German Youtube video of the AVR-3313

The 3313 is 7.1, 7/3 HDMI, LAN, 4K, Airplay, XT32, PreOut. 1299 Euro
The 2313 is 7.1, 6/2 HDMI, LAN, 4K, PreOut, Airplay, MultiEQ XT, 899 Euro
The 2113 is 7.1, 6/1 HDMI, LAN, 4K, Airplay, MultiEQ XT, 599 Euro

Important to note that the AVLand webpage, which lists the actual feature set (rather than a reprint used on the youtube video), indicates the 3313 has MultEQ XT.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - Authorized dealer for AV Gear 
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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