When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 36 - AVS Forum
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post #1051 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post


Not sure. I will take a look tonight.

You are correct. Denon reads PCM from the player.
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post #1052 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

If you're really after better SQ, why not make an investment in a better receiver (to start with), or going the seperates route if you really want to keep with the latest tech?

I'm not suggesting that anyone keep the same receiver year after year. I'm just perplexed by the strategy of people that go from AVR-2805 to 2807 to 2809, then to 2310 then 2311 then 2312, etc.

These avr's are in my opinion are so amazing. The fact that you can hook up to 7 devices with the switching and streaming abilities to pull any media you might have I am still a little in awe of the tech factor that goes into these units. The fact that Maybe there could be Xt 32 added to the 3313 has me wanting to upgrade as this feature will add SQ at a decent price. Bottom line is we are buying features that have never been offered this Cheap.

Why? Why do people buy new cars when the old car will do. Why do people buy iPhones and a year later they want and buy the newer one because we want the newest best toys with all the bells and whistles.

It may be the last purchase for a while or maybe not but really not necessary to ask why. Wait this isn't my wife is it?
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post #1053 of 1844 Old 05-07-2012, 08:49 PM
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Trust me, I like tech too. I have a Denon AVP (3D upgrade) in the main room, a 4311CI in the living room, and a AVR-5800 in the bedroom.


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Originally Posted by spager View Post


Why? Why do people buy new cars when the old car will do.

To use your analogy... It seems like people upgrading mid-range AVRs every year or so are effectively buying a new Chevy Cobalt/Cruze every year for 10 years, when (for the same outlay) you could own a new Mercedes every 5 years, over that same period.
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post #1054 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Trust me, I like tech too. I have a Denon AVP (3D upgrade) in the main room, a 4311CI in the living room, and a AVR-5800 in the bedroom.




To use your analogy... It seems like people upgrading mid-range AVRs every year or so are effectively buying a new Chevy Cobalt/Cruze every year for 10 years, when (for the same outlay) you could own a new Mercedes every 5 years, over that same period.

IMO the 3313 with the advanced XT if it has it, and it looks like a full Hdmi to a zone (first avr in the world to do this) would be considered a high end avr. If you have a high end avr (4311 5800) why not me or anybody else if they choose to do so.

Anyway this going off topic from What's New to Why Buy.
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post #1055 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Trust me, I like tech too. I have a Denon AVP (3D upgrade) in the main room, a 4311CI in the living room, and a AVR-5800 in the bedroom.




To use your analogy... It seems like people upgrading mid-range AVRs every year or so are effectively buying a new Chevy Cobalt/Cruze every year for 10 years, when (for the same outlay) you could own a new Mercedes every 5 years, over that same period.

Sometimes you just have to wait for a feature to come down a few models. When I got the 3311 I wanted XT32 but the 4311 was $1000 more than the price I found on the 3311. XT32 wasn't worth that much money to me and it's not like the 3311 is a low end receiver. So if I take a $50 loss on the 3311 and have to spend 500 more on a receiver now that has XT32 that's ok with me. I would still be getting XT32 for $450 cheaper than I would have last year. I don't get the Cobalt vs Mercedes thing because it's not like people are choosing between a HTIB or a 4311. I don't see anyone asking if they should get the 4311 or 1312.
I'm just not ballin enough to pay over 1000 for a receiver and I refuse to bend on that. I know I can get great sound out of my speakers with a lower model receiver. I'm sure XT32 would be an improvement but I doubt it will be a $1000 improvement in my eyes. If I was going to spend 1500 I would rather upgrade my speakers. If the 3313 or 818 have a street price below 1k then I will get one, assuming the 3313 has XT32. I may have to wait a little longer to get the feature I want but I will also have saved a good amount of money compared to if I would have bought the 4311 last year.
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post #1056 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
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Official xx13 model thread created!

All - now that these models seem to be hitting the streets, please join us in the xx13 "official thread" for any REAL WORLD discussion of these models. Please keep all discussion on rumors and feature speculation (e.g. XT32 on the 3313??!!?!??!??!?!) to THIS THREAD and let the other thread be devoted to questions, setup, use on the models that are actually out an in people's homes .

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post #1057 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
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Tha's why I'm still wodnering if in fact the 3313 will have XT32. I'm on hold for the 4311 for now trying to decide this since the main difference I can point (at least to me) are XT32 and better amp. section on the 4311 (of course the option to go up 11.2 too buut I dont know how many people will go after this insane amount of speakers). I dont think the diferrence is SQ overral is not quite there (if any at all); but it seems that XT32 will be the main decision factor here.

And even though that I really want the 3313 to have XT32; I think it will hurt 4520 sales cause you can get a separate power amp with 3313 and still below the pontential price of this 4520. but time will tell!!!
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post #1058 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Official xx13 model thread created!

All - now that these models seem to be hitting the streets, please join us in the xx13 "official thread" for any REAL WORLD discussion of these models. Please keep all discussion on rumors and feature speculation (e.g. XT32 on the 3313??!!?!??!??!?!) to THIS THREAD and let the other thread be devoted to questions, setup, use on the models that are actually out an in people's homes .

LINKY: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21995236

Thanks! Can't wait to be an actual contributor when I finally bite the bullet
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post #1059 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 11:21 AM
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Are the new Denon USB ports 3.0 or 2.0?
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post #1060 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by scottshiv View Post

Are the new Denon USB ports 3.0 or 2.0?

C'mon. What could you possibly hook up to a receiver that would max out the bandwidth of 2.0?
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post #1061 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by xpidex View Post

And even though that I really want the 3313 to have XT32; I think it will hurt 4520 sales cause you can get a separate power amp with 3313 and still below the pontential price of this 4520. but time will tell!!!

That's true but the question is what will hurt more; the 3313 taking sells away from the 4520 or the Onkyo 818 taking sells away from the 3313? I am a Denon guy and I have good luck with their receivers but I if the 3313 doesn't have XT32 then I will go with the Onkyo 818. The 4520 is too far out of my price range to even be considered. I'm sure the 4520 would lose some sales but I still think you will have people who want a flagship model going with the 4520 even if the 3313 has XT32.
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post #1062 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

That’s true but the question is what will hurt more; the 3313 taking sells away from the 4520 or the Onkyo 818 taking sells away from the 3313? I am a Denon guy and I have good luck with their receivers but I if the 3313 doesn't have XT32 then I will go with the Onkyo 818. The 4520 is too far out of my price range to even be considered. I’m sure the 4520 would lose some sales but I still think you will have people who want a flagship model going with the 4520 even if the 3313 has XT32.

Its not the same full MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT as on 4311, its just MultiEQ XT32 I believe as the Onkyo TX-NR818 implemented.

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post #1063 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 01:14 PM
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^^^

y'know, i'm wondering about this... if this is true (not doubting you), they'd be the first cem to use it "unbundled" (other than the svs/audyssey standalone sub eq units)...

i wouldn't put it past them though...

if they do unbundle it, there are going to be a lot of disappointed people...

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post #1064 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Its not the same full MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT as on 4311, its just MultiEQ XT32 I believe as the Onkyo TX-NR818 implemented.

That's been discussed some on the 818 thread but I haven't seen any confirmation as of yet. The thing that started it was the back of the 818 didn't show Sub1 and Sub2 as it had on the 3009/5009. Hopefully we can get some confirmation soon because that would be a deal breaker for me.
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post #1065 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

y'know, i'm wondering about this... if this is true (not doubting you), they'd be the first cem to use it "unbundled" (other than the svs/audyssey standalone sub eq units)...

i wouldn't put it past them though...

if they do unbundle it, there are going to be a lot of disappointed people...

True, but it would help protect the price points of the higher end Onkyos and the 4520 by uniquely offering independent EQ of two subs through Sub EQ HT on those units, vs. an 818 or a 3313. The same goes for LFC (low frequency correction). I know that's what I'd do if I were Denon or Onkyo....and Audyssey if they tiered what partner products they'd co-brand/license with....

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post #1066 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:20 PM
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I have been reading for days and days and need someones expert opinion. Am I better off getting a Denon AVR-2112CI or the new AVR-1913? Please tell me why one over the other. My main purpose is 5.1 in the living room and then zone 2 out back by my pool. I want to be able to play different sources inside and outside and also stream pandora out by the pool.

I can get the 2112ci for $416 shipped but of course the new 1913 is $579

Thanks in advance everyone!
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post #1067 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Its not the same full MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT as on 4311, its just MultiEQ XT32 I believe as the Onkyo TX-NR818 implemented.

I don't thinks there is section of XT32 w/o sub eq. However the implementation of all it's componets in general will be different (DAC's, DSP etc..) that's why your end result will be different (SQ). I'm not saying that one will sound better than the other; just different to some extent to the point that you as the consumer will choose which one is the best.

I never own an Onkyo before but all I know from local dealers/electronic repairs (2 service locations) is that Onkyo tends to run hot and is the most common unit w/ issues (FYI they don't sell units it just repairs) vs. other big ones.

Going back to this thread, in a perfect world we will get XT32 for the 3313 and 4520 would be a pre/pro with really good features and price @2.5-3K mark. I really beleive there is a market for this price range for a pre/pro and in Denon case able to complete with the Integra 80.3
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post #1068 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

He may have been referring to the DAC chip. The 3311 used an AKM 4358 which is an 8 channel chip. If the 3313 also uses one 4358, it could only do 7.2 with the .2 being monaural. The 4311 has two of them.

I don't recall from the 3311, but the 3312 must have 12 DAC channels, since it can drive 7.1 (ok .2) on the main zone, along with PCM 2.0 to zones 2 and 3. That said, it's entirely possible the zone 2/3 DACs are just cheap, dedicated PCM->stereo parts, but from a design perspective that adds complexity (different parts, different layout, etc...) and thus cost. It's far simpler to make the zone 2/3 DACs as an additional peripheral off of the main processor.

The basic rule of thumb here is that it's almost always cheaper to do things in software than it is to do it in hardware.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, as I've not had the opportunity to get a good look at the innards of these units, so my comments carry all the weight of a humming bird's tail feather.
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post #1069 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuttle42 View Post

I have been reading for days and days and need someones expert opinion. Am I better off getting a Denon AVR-2112CI or the new AVR-1913? Please tell me why one over the other. My main purpose is 5.1 in the living room and then zone 2 out back by my pool. I want to be able to play different sources inside and outside and also stream pandora out by the pool.

I can get the 2112ci for $416 shipped but of course the new 1913 is $579

Thanks in advance everyone!

I think in your case will be to determine if having an upscaler in your system is important (1913 will have it). other than that the difference is with the Audessey included (XT for the 2112).

I personally tend to vow first for SQ before video; although is nice having and upscaler if watching DVD or non-HD content.
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post #1070 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuttle42 View Post

I have been reading for days and days and need someones expert opinion. Am I better off getting a Denon AVR-2112CI or the new AVR-1913? Please tell me why one over the other. My main purpose is 5.1 in the living room and then zone 2 out back by my pool. I want to be able to play different sources inside and outside and also stream pandora out by the pool.

I can get the 2112ci for $416 shipped but of course the new 1913 is $579

Thanks in advance everyone!

Depends on whether you want an Airplay source independent to Zone 2, as with the 2112CI that would run you another $99 (AppleTV) + Optical-->Analog converter ($25) bringing your total cost to $540. Also note that once the regular resellers that discount receive the XX13 models those MSRP prices will be discounted as well. So also depends on whether you want it "NOW" or can wait.

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post #1071 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

That's been discussed some on the 818 thread but I haven't seen any confirmation as of yet. The thing that started it was the back of the 818 didn't show Sub1 and Sub2 as it had on the 3009/5009. Hopefully we can get some confirmation soon because that would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm curious about that. Do you know if it is just because it doesn't specifically list "Sub 1" and "Sub 2?" There are two sub outs on the back of the 818 (at least the image I looked at), both are purple and just listed under the "Subwoofer" label.

If that is the sole concern, I think people may be jumping to some wild conclusions. Looking at the other preout's, it doesn't look like left and right are differentiated either for the front, surrounds, height, width channels, and they are obviously going to be individual. Perhaps the manual states whether the top is left/bottom is right or something along those lines.

Of course, even if the 818 is somehow a different XT32 lite, there is no reason to think the 3313, if it has XT32, will follow the same lines. Looking at the model down from the 818 it shows 2EQ, and the XX13 line shows XT pretty far down the line.

At least this should be put to bed shortly when Denon releases info officially.

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post #1072 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 07:26 PM
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^^^^^

Yes the picture of the back is the only real source of that rumor that I've seen. If you look at the 3008/5008 and 3009/5009 they do list sub 1 and sub 2. I still don't see that as proof the 818 won't have subeq ht. I think the Denon 3313 will either have xt or xt32 with subeq ht. I don't see Denon using a lite version either.
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post #1073 of 1844 Old 05-08-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

I don't recall from the 3311, but the 3312 must have 12 DAC channels, since it can drive 7.1 (ok .2) on the main zone, along with PCM 2.0 to zones 2 and 3. That said, it's entirely possible the zone 2/3 DACs are just cheap, dedicated PCM->stereo parts, but from a design perspective that adds complexity (different parts, different layout, etc...) and thus cost. It's far simpler to make the zone 2/3 DACs as an additional peripheral off of the main processor.

The basic rule of thumb here is that it's almost always cheaper to do things in software than it is to do it in hardware.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, as I've not had the opportunity to get a good look at the innards of these units, so my comments carry all the weight of a humming bird's tail feather.

You are correct and the same applies to the 3311...I was thinking in terms of main zone capability since I've never even thought about Multi. Also, I checked the 13 AVRs that have been released and they use the same DAC chip as the 4311 in the same differential configuration. As you noted, it is cost effective to enter into high volume supplier relationships, which Denon has done with AKM for DACs, and to standardize throughout a product line as opposed to designing, manufacturing and supporting multiple configurations at the chip level & code level...especially in commodity items like DAC chips.
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post #1074 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

You are correct and the same applies to the 3311...I was thinking in terms of main zone capability since I've never even thought about Multi. Also, I checked the 13 AVRs that have been released and they use the same DAC chip as the 4311 in the same differential configuration. As you noted, it is cost effective to enter into high volume supplier relationships, which Denon has done with AKM for DACs, and to standardize throughout a product line as opposed to designing, manufacturing and supporting multiple configurations at the chip level & code level...especially in commodity items like DAC chips.

Using a superior digital to analog converter (DAC) is even further evidence that Denon is going all out for sound quality and features in the 13 series. I suspect this will be a banner year for Denon.
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post #1075 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 05:45 AM
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Thank you Xpidex and Jdsmoothie - and yes I definitely want source independent zone 2. JDsmoothie do you have any type of estimate for when the regular resellers will be getting the xx13 for the price to drop? I can wait a little bit but I really want this soon as the weather is nice and the pool is ready Thanks again!!!
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post #1076 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 06:13 AM
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^^
As some authorized resellers already have the 1913 and below in stock (J&R, HiDef Lifestyle), it's likely just a matter of another week or two for the rest to get their initial inventory. Just keeping call them.

Note also that it's only the "Airplay" source on the XX12 models that cannot be source independent to Zone 2.

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post #1077 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 06:35 AM
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^^
As some authorized resellers already have the 1913 and below in stock (J&R, HiDef Lifestyle), it's likely just a matter of another week or two for the rest to get their initial inventory. Just keeping call them.

Note also that it's only the "Airplay" source on the XX12 models that cannot be source independent to Zone 2.

I just want to make sure I am understanding you right - so with xx12 models I will still able to airplay to zone 2 but I just won't be able to use another source in the living room at the same time right? The 1913 has the powered zone 2 capability...I guess this is what allows independent zone 2??? Thanks and I apologize for my ignorance. You guys really know your stuff!
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post #1078 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 06:48 AM
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^^
Zone 2 is Zone 2. Doesn't matter whether you use the powered Amp Assign speaker posts or the Zone 2 preouts, the Airplay limitation on XX12 models still applies. The limitation does NOT apply to the XX13 models simply because it was resolved .... again, nothing to do with whether using the speaker posts or the Zone 2 preouts.

My point was that the limitation ONLY applies to Airplay, while the other onboard sources (internet radio, AM/FM, Pandora, etc.) can play independently to Zone 2 with another source in the main zone.

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post #1079 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 07:05 AM
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Any idea on a firmware update for the xx11/xx12 models that will resolve the independent Airplay to zone 2/3. Is this even possible?

Denon AVR-X4000, Panasonic TCP-55VT50, OPPO BDP-103, DirecTV HR44-700, Apple TV
Polk Audio RTi-A9, RTi-A7, RTi-A3, CSi-A6 & DSW PRO 660
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post #1080 of 1844 Old 05-09-2012, 07:10 AM
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^^^

no, that is not happening...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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