When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 5 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-03-2012, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sorry, Feri ... no can do.

Denon is always tight lipped around this time of year and I'm still trying to break into the "new gang" at Denon what with Jeff T. gone. Note, however, I just picked those models off of the parts distributor's website, no other inside information available on the 1723 or it's validity.

No trouble at all jd! Recently my father at 80 received his renewed plastic card driver's license extended to 2050. He said: "They trust me!"

We trust Denon!

Take care!
mogorf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-05-2012, 09:01 AM
Member
 
onlyclave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Denver, CO.
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Likely next week sometime which is about when the XX12 line was announced last year.

As it turns out though, one of the authorized parts distributors is already reporting parts for the new models ...

1513
1613
1713
1723
1913
2313CI
3313CI

So the 1513 replaces the 1312 and no 2112CI replacement it appears.

There definitely is a 2113CI.
onlyclave is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 02:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Where is the news of the new Denon Flagship?
Spizz is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 02:58 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 50,371
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3710 Post(s)
Liked: 2181
^^
Not scheduled to be announced until later this summer.

------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; http://shop.avscience.com/ Call only for sales info --> 585-645-1006 

Daily - 8am to 8pm EST
AVScience sells Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Def Tech, Oppo, and more
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 03:13 AM
Senior Member
 
rakosnicek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Come to think of it, why are there five AVRs in the 1x13 line?

To attack different price levels at the low end where people are very sensitive to a $50 or $100 difference in price.
rakosnicek is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Osamede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.
Osamede is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 11:27 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,411
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.

Not just that - trying to maintain different AVRs at price points that are close to one another is self-defeating when EDLP (Brick and Mortar store's Everyday Low Pricing) isn't MRSP, the AVRs can be marginally discounted by promotions or short-term sales, or most importantly the customer can buy them online from vendors (even authorized ones) that will negotiate price.

Audio Gear: Sherwood R-972 (Trinnov Altitude - on order), NAD M27 amp
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini
Misc.: Oppo 103, Apple TV, JRiver ID NUC
PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds; HSU ULS-15 subs (2)
sdrucker is online now  
Old 04-06-2012, 03:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 10,135
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Not just that - trying to maintain different AVRs at price points that are close to one another is self-defeating when EDLP (Brick and Mortar store's Everyday Low Pricing) isn't MRSP, the AVRs can be marginally discounted by promotions or short-term sales, or most importantly the customer can buy them online from vendors (even authorized ones) that will negotiate price.

Not really..
When the Denon features and power output specs are disclosed...
One will see there is not alot of differences between models. Denon's strategy is to sell certain retailers one model and another model to another retail segment, that way all of the retailers don't carry the same model while driving the pricing down & down..
1 model can go to the Best Buys/Magnolia and another to the Internet resellers..

Over the last 18 months, Denon's biz is off by 56% and in order to regain credibility with their distribution channels they need to protect the retailer's profit margin.. If the dealers just compete on price by carrying the same model, they will drop the brand if unable to make a reasonable profit margin..

Just my $0.02...
M Code is online now  
Old 04-06-2012, 05:16 PM
 
cybrsage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 153
That sounds like a reasonable reason for so many models.
cybrsage is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 28,653
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Denon, Marantz and Boston Acoustics New Product Showcase scheduled for May 29.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Kal Rubinson is online now  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
7channelfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Houston
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Denon, Marantz and Boston Acoustics New Product Showcase scheduled for May 29.

I'll put that on my calendar.
7channelfreak is online now  
Old 04-06-2012, 07:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
landshark1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 58
landshark1 is offline  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
M Code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Joshua Tree, CA
Posts: 10,135
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Is Denon & Marantz receiver usually release about the same time or one later than the other?

Going forward...
The basic AVR platforms of Denon & Marantz will be shared, there will be different ID for each brand but the electrical platform will be common....
Both Denon & Marantz have lost significant $ during the last 3 years, and have now consolidated their development efforts...

Just my $0.02..
M Code is online now  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
Osamede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Not really..
When the Denon features and power output specs are disclosed...
One will see there is not alot of differences between models. Denon's strategy is to sell certain retailers one model and another model to another retail segment, that way all of the retailers don't carry the same model while driving the pricing down & down..
1 model can go to the Best Buys/Magnolia and another to the Internet resellers..

Over the last 18 months, Denon's biz is off by 56% and in order to regain credibility with their distribution channels they need to protect the retailer's profit margin.. If the dealers just compete on price by carrying the same model, they will drop the brand if unable to make a reasonable profit margin..

Just my $0.02...

Its not 1972 - it's 2012. There is free flow of information and customers can not only price compare on their phone, they can even do a search and in one minute determine what models are bing disguised as what. That game is old and done. If you are unable to clarify for the customer what value your product provides, then you've got no margin and neither will your dealer. In fact its not you depending ont he dealer - the dealer is depening on you to create a product that has actual differentiable value delivered, which is what drives margin, not kids games with changing model numbers.
Osamede is offline  
Old 04-07-2012, 03:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 28,653
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

I'll put that on my calendar.

Just watch the internet. There will be blogs (but not from me).

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Kal Rubinson is online now  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JohnAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Looking at Denon's competition, the recent announced Onkyo TX-NR818 model for $1199 updates Audyssey to MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT room correction which makes the previous AVR-4311 model going for $2099 list, discounted as low as $1299 a tough sell to follow.

Expect the AVR-3313 to have XT32/SubEQ HT, as well as being slightly more powerful amp. Might even be a 9.2 model rather then a 7.2 is my guess? Assume upcoming 3313 will say it certified for 4 ohm operation also, even though current 3312 easily drives 4 ohm speakers.

So will the 4313 offer even more watts or be a 9.3 unit?

Its probably a given these new Denon xx13 will incorporate AirPlay support, rather then marketed as Airplay ready.

Expect them to advertise video processing up to 4K as this is the next trend to scale 1080P content to 4k.

Oppo Beta Group
JohnAV is offline  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Member
 
nemir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So if they're having a big launch on May 29th, will that mean products will be available in retail outlets closest to June 1st, July 1st or december 1st?
nemir is offline  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:08 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
mystic_sniper28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..
mystic_sniper28 is offline  
Old 04-08-2012, 05:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Toys7505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Milford, Ma
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..

Denon has a factory upgrade for this unit for 1k that gives you all the latest features including 3D passthrough..........

Denon AVR-3311CI, Denon DVP-602CI, B&K EX4420, B&K TX4430, Belkin PF60
Sony BDP-S5000ES, Silverstone HTPC (6 Tuner DVR & 10 TB Media)
PSB Stratus Minis, PSB Stratus C6, PSB Alpha S surround, James Subwoofer EMB-1200
Sharp LC-70LE755U, Harmony 880 Remote
Toys7505 is online now  
Old 04-09-2012, 01:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Phantom Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tualatin Oregon
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.

I wish someone would inscribe the above on a baseball bat and beat it into marketing morons until they get a clue.

E.g. Apple has three iPhone models and they sold 37 million units for $25 billion in just the last quarter.

Yes it's a comparison between apples and denons. But the point is still valid. You need to have easily understood products at a few key price points. Definitely not something where the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how they differ.

P.S.: to make it worse, why exactly do I need to go to a third party web site to find something like batpig's outstanding FAQ about the differences? Why doesn't Denon themselves make it clearer? Definitely reactive old school marketing.
Phantom Gremlin is offline  
Old 04-09-2012, 03:06 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 50,371
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3710 Post(s)
Liked: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..

Denon has previously reported that the 5308 and AVP are being discontinued while the 4XXX series will become the new flagship model.

------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; http://shop.avscience.com/ Call only for sales info --> 585-645-1006 

Daily - 8am to 8pm EST
AVScience sells Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Def Tech, Oppo, and more
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Old 04-09-2012, 05:51 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
mystic_sniper28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
where I was comign from with avpa1 was this, it is still a 9.x processor, not 11.x


yes I know about the last upgade, for video, though I still haven't seen the 11.x upgrade have you??


the 4xxx series will eventually retired..
mystic_sniper28 is offline  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:12 AM
Senior Member
 
rakosnicek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I have only two questions about future Denon AVRs ...

... which model(s) will support DSD over HDMI?

... when will they decode video?
rakosnicek is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:00 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 50,371
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3710 Post(s)
Liked: 2181
Looks like the first vendor has posted regarding the new models ...

http://www.big-georges.com/avr2313ci.aspx

1513 ----> Picks up front HDMI
1613 ----> Picks up networking/Airplay
1713 ----> Drops back to 5.1, Zone 2 preouts
2113CI --> 4K video
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link
4520CI --> ????

------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; http://shop.avscience.com/ Call only for sales info --> 585-645-1006 

Daily - 8am to 8pm EST
AVScience sells Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Def Tech, Oppo, and more
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WiWavelength's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

The Big George's page for the 3313CI references "Denon Link HD." Do we presume that this is referring to Denon Link 4th Edition? Or could it be yet another iteration of Denon Link (though, what more could it add)?

AJ
WiWavelength is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:29 AM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 50,371
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3710 Post(s)
Liked: 2181
^^
Likely just Denon Link 4th as that added the HD codec capability.

------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; http://shop.avscience.com/ Call only for sales info --> 585-645-1006 

Daily - 8am to 8pm EST
AVScience sells Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Def Tech, Oppo, and more
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

that's intriguing... if it also gets xt32, the 4xxx replacement becomes a very hard sell....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

The Big George's page for the 3313CI references "Denon Link HD." Do we presume that this is referring to Denon Link 4th Edition? Or could it be yet another iteration of Denon Link (though, what more could it add)?

AJ

hmmm... maybe it transfers at faster than the speed of light, putting the jitter issue to bed once and for all...

howaya aj? long time no post...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,434
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Looks like the first vendor has posted regarding the new models ...

http://www.big-georges.com/avr2313ci.aspx

1513 ----> Picks up front HDMI
1613 ----> Picks up networking/Airplay
1713 ----> Drops back to 5.1, Zone 2 preouts
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

Not much of a difference/upgrade from my 2312 and 3312.
tvuong is online now  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WiWavelength's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Likely just Denon Link 4th as that added the HD codec capability.

If Denon were to update Denon Link again, especially as a trickle down feature to lesser models, the one alteration that comes to mind would be to drop the separate RJ-45 connection and instead to carry both audio and clock over HDMI (a la Pioneer's PQLS and Sony's HATS). However, that would break backward compatibility with all existing Denon Link sources.

AJ
WiWavelength is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WiWavelength's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

howaya aj? long time no post...

Chris, I am well, thanks.

Last fall, I had a family member disappear for 36 hours -- on my birthday, no less. While all was right in the end, the experience kept me away from the forums for a few weeks. And, after that, I just could not get back into the thick of things.

But, in the past week or so, I have been getting up to speed again, have started following the forums once more. And I am glad that I have, as I caught wind of an interesting deal. Today or tomorrow, I expect delivery of a Sherwood Newcastle R-972, a closeout from Accessories4less. I absolutely DO NOT need another AVR or pre/pro; however, for $600, I could hardly pass up the opportunity to sample Trinnov. And that is how I know that my AV enthusiasm has returned -- I jump at the chance to buy a three model year old, quasi glitchy, new but closeout AVR for its rare digital room correction system and think $600 quite the bargain.

AJ
WiWavelength is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off