When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1844 Old 04-12-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I don't think 95% of people who are looking at a $500 receiver will even know what Audyssey is.

Information about Audyssey is usually buried, if it is present at all, when I am perusing websites to compare different brand feature sets and feature sets within a brand. So these companies know it's not something the majority of consumers are familiar with or particularly interested in.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #182 of 1844 Old 04-12-2012, 05:29 PM
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It's not true that consumers are "not interested" in what Audyssey has to offer - of course they are: many have experienced problems with unintelligible dialogue or gaps in bass for example. They are interested in getting better than that.

Key is that they are interested in experiencing the benefit, rather than getting:
- bombarded with technology jargon about x number of filters or octave sizes
- having to go through setup routines that require an english-to-english interpreter for the instructions

It's very early days in room correction. The rate of progress will depend as much on the likes of Audyssey's skill in communicating and connecting with the customer, as it does on the code and the CPU power.

If Audyssey aims to make money licensing its technology to AVR makers like Denon, then it's Audyssey's job to generate the "pull" from consumers by making them aware of the tech and it simple for them to Understand what that tech does for them.
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post #183 of 1844 Old 04-12-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post


That is a good point but Onkyo has had 2EQ on the 5 and 6 series for several years and still seem to be beating Denon in sales for that price range. I don't think 95% of people who are looking at a $500 receiver will even know what Audyssey is. I think they would more impressed by the sheer number of features on something which Onkyo always has an advantage there. When you get up to $1000 price mark, I would think those are the more serious buyers who will know more about Audyssey and make their choice for sound quality which could hurt the 3313 if it doesn't have XT32. This is just a theory and I could be wrong but that's how I see it. I have seen the Onkyo 709 become one of the most recommended receivers around here and that will for sure change with the 717. I'm sure among AVS the Denons will dominate below 1000$ but that makes up a very small percentage of consumers in my guestimation.

I'm a bargain AVR purchaser who knew I wanted Audesey MultiEQ in 2008/09. I picked up my AVR-889 in early 2009 when CircuitCity closed for under $500. Onkyo's best receiver at the time at that PP was the 805 but they were next to impossible to procure when I was looking to buy. IDK about now but at that time they ran hotter than Denon did and the 806 that replaced it had less robust amps. AFAIK the 806 became problematic.

Other than the cryptic manual and the C64 OSD, I've been quite pleased with it. It is a solid performer and I don't really need to "see" the volume and once it's set up the manual goes in the drawer (plus batpig provides a great translation).

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post #184 of 1844 Old 04-12-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Looks like the first vendor has posted regarding the new models ...

http://www.big-georges.com/avr2313ci.aspx

1513 ----> Picks up front HDMI
1613 ----> Picks up networking/Airplay
1713 ----> Drops back to 5.1, Zone 2 preouts
2113CI --> 4K video
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link
4520CI --> ????

All that info showing new Denon's models on Big George's is gone.

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post #185 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 02:40 AM
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^^
I suspected that would happen. When I called, he had no additional information available and likely just got tired of people calling asking for more details (which is what his webpage said to do). Denon is apparently going to make the new line announcement at the end of the month.

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post #186 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 10:53 AM
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Check Denon.ca the have some already post it but just with basic info. I'm new to this world A/V but been waiting to see the replacement for the 4311.

I have a quite interesting selection to look for and getting to complicated in the mix. (from NAD,rotel, denon and integra); mostly the processor.
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post #187 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpidex View Post

Check Denon.ca the have some already post it but just with basic info. I'm new to this world A/V but been waiting to see the replacement for the 4311.

I have a quite interesting selection to look for and getting to complicated in the mix. (from NAD,rotel, denon and integra); mostly the processor.

I'd say it's more than just basic info ... it looks like the full specs.

http://denon.ca/ca/Product/Pages/Pro...9-60aae60e0bdd
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post #188 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guns&motorcycles View Post

I'd say it's more than just basic info ... it looks like the full specs.

http://denon.ca/ca/Product/Pages/Pro...9-60aae60e0bdd

Did anyone else happen to notice that the 1613, 1713 and 1913 don't come with an AM radio tuner?
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post #189 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 12:25 PM
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New AVRs have a new look that I think looks quite nice. I'd like to see what the 3313 will look like and possibly a picture of the rear panel.

Bill

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post #190 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim97219 View Post

Did anyone else happen to notice that the 1613, 1713 and 1913 don't come with an AM radio tuner?

I did catch this, thought it was really strange to eliminate it, also strange that the 1513 does have it.

Rhapsody & Napster are gone, saw this coming.

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post #191 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 01:19 PM
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I hope that Denon introduces a more affordable Pro/ Does anyone heard anything about an option for that???? I know you can use 4311 as pre/ and have it on my sight. But I'm really waiting to see the replacement.

the only one available is like 7K and way off budget. I think one @2-3K mark to compete in that segment will be nice to have.
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post #192 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 01:33 PM
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^^
AFAIK, not expected from Denon but Marantz may be releasing one this year. The 4311CI/4810CI replacement isn't scheduled to be announced until later this summer with a Sep release date.

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post #193 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 02:30 PM
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Current information learned so far from various websites ...

1513 ----> 5.1, 75W, 4/1 HDMI, No ARC, No Audyssey (April)

1613 ----> 5.1, 75W, 5/1 HDMI, MultEQ (April)
1713 ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
1913 ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Analog-->HDMI, 1080p scaling, Spotify (April)

2113CI --> 4K video (May)
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX (June)
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link (June)

4520CI --> ???? (Sep)

* All models have 1 front HDMI
** All models from 1613 and above have networking/Airplay

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post #194 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
AFAIK, not expected from Denon but Marantz may be releasing one this year. The 4311CI/4810CI replacement isn't scheduled to be announced until later this summer with a Sep release date.


I heard from a dealer here that Marantz will keep the same AV7005 for another yr.
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post #195 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

New AVRs have a new look that I think looks quite nice. I'd like to see what the 3313 will look like and possibly a picture of the rear panel.

Bill

Hopefully the 3313 will have the flip down panel again because I didn't care for the looks of the 3312.
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post #196 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Denon CA website info added:

1513 ----> 5.1, 75W, 4/1 HDMI, No ARC, No Audyssey (April)

1613 ----> 5.1, 75W, 5/1 HDMI, MultEQ (April)
1713 ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
1913 ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Analog-->HDMI, 1080p scaling, Spotify (April)

2113CI --> 4K video (May)
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX (June)
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link (June)

4520CI --> ???? (Sep)

* All models have 1 front HDMI
** All models from 1613 and above have networking/Airplay

Where on the Denon CA site does it show information for the 3313? I see information for the 1513 through the 1913 but nothing further.

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post #197 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Where on the Denon CA site does it show information for the 3313? I see information for the 1513 through the 1913 but nothing further.

Bill

It wasn't from denon.ca. It was from big-georges.com, but the listings (and limited product descriptions) have since been removed.
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post #198 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


1713 ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
1913 ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Analog-->HDMI, 1080p scaling, Spotify (April)

2113CI --> 4K video (May)

The 1713 is losing 2 channels (compared to the 1712)? The 1913 doesn't get MultiEQ XT? That means, for my 7.1 system, I'll have to go with the 2113 or maybe a discounted 2112 depending on what else the 2113 adds (I won't need 4k for a while). Hmmm.

John
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post #199 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgary View Post

It wasn't from denon.ca. It was from big-georges.com, but the listings (and limited product descriptions) have since been removed.

jdsmoothie's post states the information in his post was "Denon CA website info added" with no mention of big-georges.

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post #200 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 07:16 PM
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Hey guys, I have an AVR3300, andrun it with Vandersteen 2Ce sigs. It's the only receiver I've owned so I've been looking for several months now and almost bought the Integra 50.3. I just held off because I did find out about the 818 having XT32. I'd rather have Integra than Onkyo, but I started out looking at all models. I feel I'm stuck a bit with Denon because it's the only thing I know. The sound is nice and smooth through my speakers, but looking into the 3312 I thought it was lacking a bit.
Things I was concerned with was no XT32, which guys have pointed out that the 818 will be a stripped down wersion. Firmware updates, I forget you either have to thumb drive or take it in to a dealer?! GUI is not great, I thought after you set everything up your done and I was OK with that, but when I demo'd the 50.3 there is a lot you can do after and their GUI was pretty nice. Not a lot of submenus. Something else I thought they changed amplifiers this year, any comment on that? Why?
So for now I've backed off from buying and I'll wait and see what happens this year.
I admit I did thee ole look so much you can't think straight. But I won't be changing out gear like others do. Some guys seem to change gear like underwear, not me! (I mean gear).
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post #201 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 07:20 PM
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Oh yeah, I forgot one other thing, an earlier post said when are they going to decode video. that is what I want, I have lots on hard drives.
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post #202 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 07:37 PM
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Anyone notice the weight drop. 1912 to 1913 loses about 1.5 lbs.

1712 to 1713 drops 4 lbs by going 7.1 to 5.1.

Pioneer is much lighter this year too. Especially the 1121.

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post #203 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 07:52 PM
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I think the 3312 is about 2lbs. less than my 3300. Some guys told me to just buy a Cambridge BR player because it has better DACs in them and I have better amps in mine. I guess an Oppo might be the same. Problem with that is I don't get all the new gee whiz stuff. HDMI, good sound processing, etc..
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post #204 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 07:53 PM
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Dealers tell me the weight is in the power supply.
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post #205 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

Hopefully the 3313 will have the flip down panel again because I didn't care for the looks of the 3312.

I have the same opinion, but we still might not see the return of the flip down panel. I thought the 3312 was not as nice a look as the earlier 3311, or 3310. However what the 1913 image shows is that Denon wasn't satisfied with its previous line look.

This image has me hoping for some interesting remote control capabilities.

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post #206 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

I wish someone would inscribe the above on a baseball bat and beat it into marketing morons until they get a clue.

E.g. Apple has three iPhone models and they sold 37 million units for $25 billion in just the last quarter.

Yes it's a comparison between apples and denons. But the point is still valid. You need to have easily understood products at a few key price points.

You are taking selective examples. Apple has a computer line that does try to hit many price points. The MacBook Airs are at $999, $1199, $1299, $1599; the MacBook Pros are at $1199, $1499, $1799, $2199 and $2499; the iMacs are at $1199, $1499, $1699 and $1999. And those are just the base configurations. If you customize it, there are plenty more price points.

I don't disagree that the product line should be understandable. But having a wide range of products that hit many price points is still Marketing 101 and it's even more important in a poor economy where people are highly price sensitive. In fact, the web has made consumers far more price sensitive - people searching on the web will buy from a different vendor to save less than a $1. That's why you have such odd prices on many sites and why they change all the time.

There's one more factor and that is that the reputation of the top of the line drives sales at the mid and bottom of the line. So manufacturers have to have a wide variety of products. Nikon and Canon actually don't sell that many of their top-of-the-line DSLRs that sell for $6000 to $8000. But the reputation of those cameras drive sales of the rest of the line.

Personally, I do prefer simplified product lines. But companies with fewer products get less space on the shelf or on the web page and they wind up selling far less. That may be stupid, but it's reality. The only place that works is with esoteric products where price is generally no object. I happened to be at the NY Audio Show today. There were plenty of companies who were there selling just one speaker model or some single amp model at some ridiculous price: $20K or more. But you can only do that when you're selling essentially a Rolls-Royce.

In the end, you might get your wish anyway because most electronics companies, especially audio companies, are not doing very well these days and many have announced a cutback in the number of models they produce.
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post #207 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

Anyone notice the weight drop. 1912 to 1913 loses about 1.5 lbs.

1712 to 1713 drops 4 lbs by going 7.1 to 5.1.

Pioneer is much lighter this year too. Especially the 1121.

Yeah, I noticed the lighter weights too. Trying to decide between 1712, 1713, 2112 and 2113. Looks like the 1713 speaker connections may only be clips, not banana plug??? That would be a disappointment.
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post #208 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeechTom View Post

Yeah, I noticed the lighter weights too. Trying to decide between 1712, 1713, 2112 and 2113. Looks like the 1713 speaker connections may only be clips, not banana plug??? That would be a disappointment.


Clearly banana plug jacks on AVR-1713

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post #209 of 1844 Old 04-13-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post


Clearly banana plug jacks on AVR-1713

That's good, they just failed to include that under connectivity when I was comparing on the Denon.ca website. All the others said yes, the 1713 was curiously blank. Thanks.
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post #210 of 1844 Old 04-14-2012, 02:31 AM
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they are starting to remove reundant options this is why things are lighter on new recievers!!
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