When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talawahdotnet View Post

I agree with you that the naming/sequence is pretty confusing but I guess it allows people who don't need 7.1 to benefit from better room EQ without paying a 7 channel tax. I also noticed that they have removed all the component inputs as well.

I would be willing to work with 5.1 channels and and all digital inputs becuase that actually matches my current setup pretty well. By the time I am ready to move to a place that can support 7.1 I'll be ready to buy another receiver. Plus all my inputs are digital

+1 on not having to pay the 7 channel tax for better room correction.
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post #242 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


Although certainly a nice feature, the channel input information is available from the INFORMATION menu and the channel output information is implied via the surround mode displayed on the front panel.

but why this Feature will be not implement on the Display like the earlier generations? I don't wanna use the informationmenu because I think such Informations have to be on a AVR Display, this is his task. So I must do some steps before I get the information.
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post #243 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 07:48 AM
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^^
Most likely as a cost cutting solution. As the feature remains on the 2312CI and higher models, likely to still remain on the 2313CI and higher as well.

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post #244 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talawahdotnet View Post

Here are the links to the high res images, my link ban has been lifted You may wanna download em before they get pulled too.



AVR-1513



AVR-1613



AVR-1713



AVR-1913

Anybody know if there will be a new 2313 and any of the features? Still debating on a 2312.

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post #245 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 07:53 AM
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^^
If you review this thread, you'll note the below is what is known so far with more information available by the end of the month ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21903949

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post #246 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questioneer View Post

what I still miss in the pictures of the Displays is the speaker configuration symbols. I think this is very important for the user Information. A missing would be a lack for me. Very good are the larger digits. For the higher models 2313, 3313 and 4520 I hope for 2 digit-lines and the two Symbolareas for incoming and outgoing channelconfigurations.

this is nothing new, Denon dropping the channel input/output lights on the lower level models YEARS ago. For example, go google and compare photos of the 1910 and 2310ci. I would be willing to bet they will still exist on the higher models (23xx and up).

little features like that are unlikely to drive sales among the more "budget conscious" consumers looking at the big volume lower end models. just like SACD support, pre-outs for amps, Zone 2 pre-outs, etc. they can push these features up the chain towards higher-priced models where the enthusiasts who want them are willing to pay to get them.

plus, these and other cuts (like fewer analog input, stripping out S-video, getting rid of component video, getting a slightly cheaper-to-produce front panel display) may save them a few dollars per unit in production cost, again without hurting sales because the features that drive sales in that segment are network streaming, iPhone control, lots of HDMI inputs, etc.

furthermore, they are also driving you more towards using the TV and not the front panel as your information source. most people nowadays have a big flat screen HDTV with their receiver tucked into an A/V stand down below. why use the 3 inch screen on the receiver for info instead of your 50" LCD? that's why all models now have on-screen GUI with an Information menu to see these details.

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post #247 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 09:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If you review this thread, you'll note the below is what is known so far with more information available by the end of the month ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21903949

iPod dock connectivity is gone.
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post #248 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Information2012 View Post

iPod dock connectivity is gone.

What the comparison chart says under Connectivity:
​iPod Dock Control Port (Using optional ASD-11R DOCK) is no longer present.

However the USB Audio Port on the 1613, 1713, 1913 show iPod Direct/Flash/HDD.

Oppo Beta Group
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post #249 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

furthermore, they are also driving you more towards using the TV and not the front panel as your information source. most people nowadays have a big flat screen HDTV with their receiver tucked into an A/V stand down below. why use the 3 inch screen on the receiver for info instead of your 50" LCD? that's why all models now have on-screen GUI with an Information menu to see these details.

Well main reason is that to overlay the receiver GUI means messing with the image. If one has TV or projector that is good, all ideas of image processing/scaling within the receiver are completely unnecessary. So actually those things should be in low end receivers and NOT in the high end ones. But the opposite is true. Wrong way around there. This is one reason why we should have a decent display - they'd be better off ditching the image processing expense and putting in the type of LCD you find on the Squeezebox touch for example.

Also the TV does not help you when listening to music, which presumably is the use case for all the "Airplay" and DLNA that the receiver makers spend money marketing. If you need to turn on TV to listen to music something is wrong.
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post #250 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Well main reason is that to overlay the receiver GUI means messing with the image. If one has TV or projector that is good, all ideas of image processing/scaling within the receiver are completely unnecessary. So actually those things should be in low end receivers and NOT in the high end ones. But the opposite is true. Wrong way around there. This is one reason why we should have a decent display - they'd be better off ditching the image processing expense and putting in the type of LCD you find on the Squeezebox touch for example.

Well, that assumes that your receiver is where you can look at it. In my case, my receiver is off in a closet, completely out of sight. Putting a beautiful display on it is pointless, I would much rather have a good GUI overlay on the video. Furthermore, since the data coming through HDMI is uncompressed, you don't get the same problems as you do with, say, TV stations adding their bugs to a broadcast (where the video needs to be decompressed, modified, and re-compressed with the subsequent loss in quality). With the AVR's overlay, the areas not under the menu can just be passed through unmolested.
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post #251 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 11:28 AM
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Osamede: +1 thats what I mean! I like the Way of information my 2311 does, and I hope it will still be in future models. Why we can't have both? a informative display and GUI?
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post #252 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 12:09 PM
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Hey guys,

I got myself a 2311 last year that has been working flawlessly. It was my first Denon, and not my last (former Pio fanboy ).

Upgraditis has struck me again and I'm keeping my eyes peel for the new xx13 line or last year's xx12 line if discounts are worth it.

My main reason for suffering from upgraditis is Audyssey. From your experience, is Multi EQXT worth the upgrade from Multi EQ?

Part of me want ppl to say no has like I've said, my current 2311 is trouble free. Part of me wants ppl to say yes because...well, you know, buying new gear and all....

Also, does the 1xxx line use the same amplification as the 2xxx line? or for next year at least. If so, I would be a candidate for the 17xx as I already have enough stuff that's "connected"

cheers
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post #253 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Well main reason is that to overlay the receiver GUI means messing with the image.

How is it any different than a Blu Ray player overlaying status info on it's image before it leaves the player?

By that logic, all BR players are "messing with the image."

It's an argument I see a lot, but I've yet to see compelling proof that there is any degradation done by modern AVR's GUI implementation..
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post #254 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Hey guys,

I got myself a 2311 last year that has been working flawlessly. It was my first Denon, and not my last (former Pio fanboy ).

Upgraditis has struck me again and I'm keeping my eyes peel for the new xx13 line or last year's xx12 line if discounts are worth it.

My main reason for suffering from upgraditis is Audyssey. From your experience, is Multi EQXT worth the upgrade from Multi EQ?

Part of me want ppl to say no has like I've said, my current 2311 is trouble free. Part of me wants ppl to say yes because...well, you know, buying new gear and all....

Also, does the 1xxx line use the same amplification as the 2xxx line? or for next year at least. If so, I would be a candidate for the 17xx as I already have enough stuff that's "connected"

cheers

I went from 3310 to 3311 and the difference between multiEQ and multiEQ XT was only noticed for dialog for me. I would say there was a slight increase in clarity and it also made dialog appear to come from the screen a little bit more. The difference were slight but noticeable in my system. It depends on your speakers as well so you may find a bigger difference than I did or you may not notice any difference at all. I had to upgrade because I had a 3d tv and the 3310 wouldn't pass the signal through so the XT was just a bonus but I don't think I would upgrade just for XT. Also once I got XT I started wanting XT32 so now I'm looking to upgrade again.
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post #255 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If you review this thread, you'll note the below is what is known so far with more information available by the end of the month ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21903949

Thanks. So the 2313 add Audyssey DSX. Is that a significant gain over 2312? What improvement in sound should be expected with only a 5.1 system?

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post #256 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

How is it any different than a Blu Ray player overlaying status info on it's image before it leaves the player?

By that logic, all BR players are "messing with the image."

It's an argument I see a lot, but I've yet to see compelling proof that there is any degradation done by modern AVR's GUI implementation..

You may want to review the many tests of these things, some which show that these receivers are not all doing perfect passthrough of HDMI to HDMI. If they are going to process the signal, they need to be doing it right. Not always the case.
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post #257 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

You may want to review the many tests of these things, some which show that these receivers are not all doing perfect passthrough of HDMI to HDMI. If they are going to process the signal, they need to be doing it right. Not always the case.

I agree with these statements 100%

That, however, is not the exactly the same as what your original post implied.

Quote:


Well main reason is that to overlay the receiver GUI means messing with the image.

That comment implied the inclusion of OSD GUI in an AVR was "messing" with the image in a negative way.. that's what I don't agree with.

It of course can be detrimental to the overall picture quality if not properly implemented, but the inclusion of such a feature doesn't imply it alway will.
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post #258 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 02:49 PM
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Thanks. So the 2313 add Audyssey DSX. Is that a significant gain over 2312? What improvement in sound should be expected with only a 5.1 system?

The post shows what is known "so far." DSX would add the capability of either Front Wide or Height speakers in a 7.1 setup.

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post #259 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The post shows what is known "so far." DSX would add the capability of either Front Wide or Height speakers in a 7.1 setup.

So DSX would do nothing for a 5.1 setup. Correct?

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post #260 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I went from 3310 to 3311 and the difference between multiEQ and multiEQ XT was only noticed for dialog for me. I would say there was a slight increase in clarity and it also made dialog appear to come from the screen a little bit more. The difference were slight but noticeable in my system. It depends on your speakers as well so you may find a bigger difference than I did or you may not notice any difference at all. I had to upgrade because I had a 3d tv and the 3310 wouldn't pass the signal through so the XT was just a bonus but I don't think I would upgrade just for XT. Also once I got XT I started wanting XT32 so now I'm looking to upgrade again.

thanks mjpearce023. Your take based on your experience, keep what I have but if I upgrade (unless price is to good to pass), go straight with a unit with XT32 and call it a day.

cheers
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post #261 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

So DSX would do nothing for a 5.1 setup. Correct?

Correct, although it would likely improve your surround audio experience with the Front Wide speakers set between the FL/FR and SL/SR speakers.

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post #262 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct, although it would likely improve your surround audio experience with the Front Wide speakers set between the FL/FR and SL/SR speakers.

And that would make it 7.1 (no more 5.1)...
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post #263 of 1844 Old 04-15-2012, 05:20 PM
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And that would make it 7.1 (no more 5.1)...

True that.

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Is it known what the successor to the 4311 brings to the table? I'm in the market to upgrade my Denon AVR-3808CI to get 3D HDMI switching/2 HDMI outputs/HD Radio, have my eye on the 4311, am thinking the successor will cost a lot more than the 4311 based on discounting going on with the 4311 but also want to understand what the successor may be bringing to the table over the 4311.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If you review this thread, you'll note the below is what is known so far with more information available by the end of the month ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21903949

Rhapsody and Napster is gone. SiriusXM and Spotify have been added. Also 4k video scaling in the CI models.
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post #266 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:38 AM
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^^
Thanks.


--------------------------

Current information learned so far from various sources ...

1513 (MSRP $ ) ----> 5.1, 75W, 4/1 HDMI, AM/FM, GUI, No ARC, No Audyssey, analog audio inputs (2) (April)

1613 (MSRP $399) ----> 5.1, 75W, 5/1 HDMI, FM only, MultEQ (April)
1713 (MSRP $ ) ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
1913 (MSRP $579) ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Advanced GUI, Powered Zone 2, analog audio inputs (4), Component video IN (1), Analog-->HDMI, 1080p scaling (April)

2113CI (MSRP $ ) --> 7.1, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, (May)
2313CI (MSRP $ ) --> 7.2, 6/2 HDMI, MultEQ XT, DSX (June)
3313CI (MSRP $ ) --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link HD (June)

4520CI --> ???? (Sep)

* All models include 1 front HDMI
* All models from 1613 and higher have networking/Airplay/SiriusXM
* All models from 1613 and higher drop AM and have FM only
* All models from 1913 and higher feature Spotify
* Rhapsody and Napster have been removed
* iPod docking station jack removed
* Airplay now works independently in Zone 2
* All CI models have 4K video upscaling
* 1713 drops Component IN/OUT from 1712

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post #267 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Is it known what the successor to the 4311 brings to the table? I'm in the market to upgrade my Denon AVR-3808CI to get 3D HDMI switching/2 HDMI outputs/HD Radio, have my eye on the 4311, am thinking the successor will cost a lot more than the 4311 based on discounting going on with the 4311 but also want to understand what the successor may be bringing to the table over the 4311.

Not yet. D&M is supposed to make an announcement on the 4520CI later this summer.

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post #268 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Is it known what the successor to the 4311 brings to the table? I'm in the market to upgrade my Denon AVR-3808CI to get 3D HDMI switching/2 HDMI outputs/HD Radio, have my eye on the 4311, am thinking the successor will cost a lot more than the 4311 based on discounting going on with the 4311 but also want to understand what the successor may be bringing to the table over the 4311.

There's not a lot to upgrade. The one thing I think will be there is support for Neo:X up to 11.2.

I've read in a couple of places there may not be a 4311 upgrade in calendar year 2012. The upgrade is targeted for 2013. This was a few months back, so things may have changed. It would be a good idea to have it available for thanksgiving 2012 so they can get some christmas sales.
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post #269 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 10:02 AM
 
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^^
Thanks.


--------------------------

Current information learned so far from various sources ...

1513 ----> 5.1, 75W, 4/1 HDMI, No ARC, No Audyssey (April)

1613 ----> 5.1, 75W, 5/1 HDMI, MultEQ (April)
1713 ----> 5.1, 80W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ XT, Zone 2 preouts (May)
1913 ----> 7.1, 90W, 6/1 HDMI, MultEQ, Analog-->HDMI, 1080p scaling (April)

2113CI --> 4K video (May)
2313CI --> 4K video, Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX (June)
3313CI --> 4K video, Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link (June)

4520CI --> ???? (Sep)

* All models have 1 front HDMI
** All models from 1613 and above have networking/Airplay/SiriusXM/Spotify
*** Rhapsody and Napster have been removed

The 1613 and 1713 do not have Spotify. That starts at the 1913.

1913 has 1080p scaling.
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post #270 of 1844 Old 04-17-2012, 10:11 AM
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^^
So what's the answer on XT32 in the 3313CI?

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