The "Official" Onkyo TX-NR3009 Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by joeboy View Post

Does anyone hear a pop out of their speakers when switching listening modes. Also I hear white noise coming out of all my speakers only when an input signal is received. The white noise gets louder on different listening modes. Is this normal? I previoulsy had an 876 and no white noise issues or popping between listening modes. Is this just par for this model or could there be something wrong with my unit. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Not normal.

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post #452 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Hit Set Up on te remote then te first option Monitor Out. You have resolution options right there. Also, under Set Up you can fine tune it under Source. There you can set picture adjustments as well as resolution. smile.gif

Thanks man! I did eventually figure it out. It took me about 7 hours to tear my whole system apart, run wiring for the new heights and wides and put it all back together with this new receiver. I got pretty tired and wasn't thinking straight.

The good news is I have the rest of the 3 day holiday to explore all the bells and whistles of this fine box!

Thanks for the help.
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post #453 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 08:39 AM
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Thanks for your response and I did not think that was normal. Luckily I'm within my 30 day return window so back it goes for a replacement.
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post #454 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ocezam View Post

Thanks man! I did eventually figure it out. It took me about 7 hours to tear my whole system apart, run wiring for the new heights and wides and put it all back together with this new receiver. I got pretty tired and wasn't thinking straight.
The good news is I have the rest of the 3 day holiday to explore all the bells and whistles of this fine box!
Thanks for the help.

Have fun! smile.gif

For my latest Reviews and stuff Search -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
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post #455 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 04:54 PM
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Does anyone really hear a difference between Pure Audio and Direct modes? Just asking for a general consensus. I personally don't hear a difference.

AVR: Onkyo 3009...Onkyo 609 (Old)
Amp: QSC GX5 (powering RTi A7s) & GX3 (powering CSi3)

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Polk Audio CSi3 (Center)...CS1 (Old)
Polk Audio RTi A7 (Fronts)...Monitor 60 (old)
Polk Audio OWM 5 (Surrounds)

Sub: SVS PC12-Plus...BIC America PL-200(Old)
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post #456 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
But I can understand your furstrations with being stuck with a 818.
Especially, when in the back of your mind, you know that you could of had the superior 3009.
But hey, life is full of compromises.
I hope you have fun with your 818, as best you can.
Don't forget to come back and visit us, here in the 3009 owners thread.
We like to keep track of our "little brothers." biggrin.gif
I swore I would not respond to this post because it seems so pointless, but after a few beverages today I have something to get off of my chest. First of all I am not stuck with a lowly anything and that comment alone may explain why you are single and live in an apartment. I chose the 818 because my experience with the 809 in my 22x24 foot man cave was that I could listen to it at reference and even beyond that without any issues, including neighbor complaints. I bet you cannot do that in your apartment with your lofty 3009 and 4 subs. Don't bother trying to BS here as a 313 would probably suit your apartment purposes. I can crank my 818 to reference and beyond anytime I want and never hear from anyone in my hood because the man cave is in the basement. Don't even try to tell me you can do this in an apartment with neighbors.

Let me see if I can explain where I have come from. Had (still have) a Pio Elite VSX-23TXH that was a very good unit and very clean power. Could not do 3D. Tried a Yammie 867 but it clipped and shut down at reference levels and beyond. Got an 809 and it did what I needed but HDMI sub out failed and I need that for my PJ. So now I have the 818 and ditto for the power levels. I have a similar Polk setup as you and 3 Polk subs. Don't know what apartment you live in but everyone here in this house can hear/feel when I listen to my 818 so I doubt it is different in your apartment except neighbors will complain.

To summarize, yet again, I am sure the 3009 is a fine unit and you got a good deal, unfortunately you are in no position to stretch the legs of the unit being in an apartment and even an 818 would be overkill in an apartment because I gaurantee the cops would be at my door every day with my 818 and the levels I listen to it. If you want to be my big brother get a bigger house than I have. Then you can be that. That would be bigger than 2,700 square feet my "big" brother.

Now can you please stop this crap and enjoy your unit? Seems you are more disappointed than I am that I cancelled my 3009 order. Trust me if the 818 does not cut it I can move on. So far it is doing fine. BTW, you have an old unit, last year's model. How's that feel? Childish eh? Yeah well seems I am in the sandbox in the playground with you right now and that is not where either of us should be. We should be extolling the value that Onkyo provides to the consumer instead of bickering. Need I remind you I could buy a 5010 if I felt like it? I just do not need that and you ought to make note of that.

Sorry to the rest of the 3009 owners but I felt this needed to be addressed as Onkyo makes a great line of AVRs and there is a reason for that. Not everyone needs the flagship and the 3009 was not the flagship, albeit close.

BTW, the HDMI splitter I got off of Amazon did display the OSD to my projector (got one of those coolcat4843? Thought not) but it failed to pass 3D so I will readvise when I get this sorted out. I am also struggling with getting the Android app to work my 818 but I am sure it is no different for the 3009 since the ICS system seems to be problematic. Wow, that was a lot of wind but I had to get it off my chest.
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post #457 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by freeyayo50 View Post

Does anyone really hear a difference between Pure Audio and Direct modes? Just asking for a general consensus. I personally don't hear a difference.

Pure mode was made for those who think that the extra curcuits running the front display somehow interfere with the SQ of what you're listening to. Very audiophile and very much a load of rubbish IMHO, but YMMV. Personally I don't hear a difference either and it just irritates me that I can't see the display so doubly useless in my experience biggrin.gif


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post #458 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I swore I would not respond to this post because it seems so pointless, but after a few beverages today I have something to get off of my chest. First of all I am not stuck with a lowly anything and that comment alone may explain why you are single and live in an apartment. I chose the 818 because my experience with the 809 in my 22x24 foot man cave was that I could listen to it at reference and even beyond that without any issues, including neighbor complaints. I bet you cannot do that in your apartment with your lofty 3009 and 4 subs. Don't bother trying to BS here as a 313 would probably suit your apartment purposes. I can crank my 818 to reference and beyond anytime I want and never hear from anyone in my hood because the man cave is in the basement. Don't even try to tell me you can do this in an apartment with neighbors.
Let me see if I can explain where I have come from. Had (still have) a Pio Elite VSX-23TXH that was a very good unit and very clean power. Could not do 3D. Tried a Yammie 867 but it clipped and shut down at reference levels and beyond. Got an 809 and it did what I needed but HDMI sub out failed and I need that for my PJ. So now I have the 818 and ditto for the power levels. I have a similar Polk setup as you and 3 Polk subs. Don't know what apartment you live in but everyone here in this house can hear/feel when I listen to my 818 so I doubt it is different in your apartment except neighbors will complain.
To summarize, yet again, I am sure the 3009 is a fine unit and you got a good deal, unfortunately you are in no position to stretch the legs of the unit being in an apartment and even an 818 would be overkill in an apartment because I gaurantee the cops would be at my door every day with my 818 and the levels I listen to it. If you want to be my big brother get a bigger house than I have. Then you can be that. That would be bigger than 2,700 square feet my "big" brother.
Now can you please stop this crap and enjoy your unit? Seems you are more disappointed than I am that I cancelled my 3009 order. Trust me if the 818 does not cut it I can move on. So far it is doing fine. BTW, you have an old unit, last year's model. How's that feel? Childish eh? Yeah well seems I am in the sandbox in the playground with you right now and that is not where either of us should be. We should be extolling the value that Onkyo provides to the consumer instead of bickering. Need I remind you I could buy a 5010 if I felt like it? I just do not need that and you ought to make note of that.
Sorry to the rest of the 3009 owners but I felt this needed to be addressed as Onkyo makes a great line of AVRs and there is a reason for that. Not everyone needs the flagship and the 3009 was not the flagship, albeit close.
BTW, the HDMI splitter I got off of Amazon did display the OSD to my projector (got one of those coolcat4843? Thought not) but it failed to pass 3D so I will readvise when I get this sorted out. I am also struggling with getting the Android app to work my 818 but I am sure it is no different for the 3009 since the ICS system seems to be problematic. Wow, that was a lot of wind but I had to get it off my chest.

I don't know what splitter you got off amazon (did it say it would pass 3D?), but is there any reason you didn't go with monoprice and the splitters that I linked that specifically said they would pass 3D? Plus monoprice has an excellent customer service department if you run into any troubles.


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post #459 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

I don't know what splitter you got off amazon (did it say it would pass 3D?), but is there any reason you didn't go with monoprice and the splitters that I linked that specifically said they would pass 3D? Plus monoprice has an excellent customer service department if you run into any troubles.
You are right. I did not go with that but I did say it failed. I also noted in a different post how it downsamples the signal to the lowest commom denominator which ended up being PCM and that is the same thing the monoprice does. I have no problem ordering from monoprice but it seems to do the same thing. Are you viewing 3D on your display because the unit I got performed perfectly until I tried to go 3D. Then it failed with error messages.
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post #460 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
But I can understand your furstrations with being stuck with a 818.
Especially, when in the back of your mind, you know that you could of had the superior 3009.
But hey, life is full of compromises.
I hope you have fun with your 818, as best you can.
Don't forget to come back and visit us, here in the 3009 owners thread.
We like to keep track of our "little brothers." biggrin.gif
I swore I would not respond to this post because it seems so pointless, but after a few beverages today I have something to get off of my chest. First of all I am not stuck with a lowly anything and that comment alone may explain why you are single and live in an apartment. I chose the 818 because my experience with the 809 in my 22x24 foot man cave was that I could listen to it at reference and even beyond that without any issues, including neighbor complaints. I bet you cannot do that in your apartment with your lofty 3009 and 4 subs. Don't bother trying to BS here as a 313 would probably suit your apartment purposes. I can crank my 818 to reference and beyond anytime I want and never hear from anyone in my hood because the man cave is in the basement. Don't even try to tell me you can do this in an apartment with neighbors.

Let me see if I can explain where I have come from. Had (still have) a Pio Elite VSX-23TXH that was a very good unit and very clean power. Could not do 3D. Tried a Yammie 867 but it clipped and shut down at reference levels and beyond. Got an 809 and it did what I needed but HDMI sub out failed and I need that for my PJ. So now I have the 818 and ditto for the power levels. I have a similar Polk setup as you and 3 Polk subs. Don't know what apartment you live in but everyone here in this house can hear/feel when I listen to my 818 so I doubt it is different in your apartment except neighbors will complain.

To summarize, yet again, I am sure the 3009 is a fine unit and you got a good deal, unfortunately you are in no position to stretch the legs of the unit being in an apartment and even an 818 would be overkill in an apartment because I gaurantee the cops would be at my door every day with my 818 and the levels I listen to it. If you want to be my big brother get a bigger house than I have. Then you can be that. That would be bigger than 2,700 square feet my "big" brother.

Now can you please stop this crap and enjoy your unit? Seems you are more disappointed than I am that I cancelled my 3009 order. Trust me if the 818 does not cut it I can move on. So far it is doing fine. BTW, you have an old unit, last year's model. How's that feel? Childish eh? Yeah well seems I am in the sandbox in the playground with you right now and that is not where either of us should be. We should be extolling the value that Onkyo provides to the consumer instead of bickering. Need I remind you I could buy a 5010 if I felt like it? I just do not need that and you ought to make note of that.

Sorry to the rest of the 3009 owners but I felt this needed to be addressed as Onkyo makes a great line of AVRs and there is a reason for that. Not everyone needs the flagship and the 3009 was not the flagship, albeit close.

BTW, the HDMI splitter I got off of Amazon did display the OSD to my projector (got one of those coolcat4843? Thought not) but it failed to pass 3D so I will readvise when I get this sorted out. I am also struggling with getting the Android app to work my 818 but I am sure it is no different for the 3009 since the ICS system seems to be problematic. Wow, that was a lot of wind but I had to get it off my chest.

I don't think cool cat was being condescending in anyway or childish. He prolly was disappointed. I am a little myself. There is a big difference in sound quality between the two. Being able to play reference and not bother the neighbors pales in comparison to being able to hear more details at -25 db below reference and have plenty of juice leftover. Lol. I think cool cat has an overkill sports car and you got the Camry inatead of a Lexus. No harm in that. Its been said the last 10% of performance gained in things like this are a third of the cost or more. For the extra few bucks you would've got that performance. That performance has had me spending money on 192/24 FLACs and ripping all my CDs to FLAC so I can hear trombone, tromboning or the details of the few vibrations of a cymbal or high hat all sounding like they have their own dedicated channel. To each his own. If you're happy with you're 818, then enjoy. Joerod is not as emphatic as us, but I am sure his opinion would say of your wallet can handle the emptiness bump it up to a 3 or 5 9/10 model. You also have the advantage of not having spent that extra few bucks and can put it towards a nice amp. The overzealousness was not a bad thing. It is all good.

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post #461 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 09:48 PM
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You are right. I did not go with that but I did say it failed. I also noted in a different post how it downsamples the signal to the lowest commom denominator which ended up being PCM and that is the same thing the monoprice does. I have no problem ordering from monoprice but it seems to do the same thing. Are you viewing 3D on your display because the unit I got performed perfectly until I tried to go 3D. Then it failed with error messages.

I am not for bunch of different reasons, but suffice it to say I don't think it's worth it/the technology isn't where it needs to be to make it worthwhile feature. However if you're rockin' 3D and like it, power to ya smile.gif

I didn't see anything in the monoprice description that says it down samples it would also be easier to give more advice if you said which splitter you ended up getting. Also, you could simply contact monoprice and ask them if the splitter will work for you instead of (what sounds like) guessing and assuming it's the same. I only say this because you said "it seems to be the same". This way you could know for sure.

I'll also leave you with this, 818.....3009 whatever. As long as its doing what you want it to do and not giving you any problems then I say you've got an excellent receiver. Plus it sounds like you've got a pretty nice setup anyways with the projector and all. Anywho, I'm much more interested in speakers than these fancy electronics biggrin.gif


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post #462 of 941 Old 09-02-2012, 10:08 PM
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Anywho, I'm much more interested in speakers than these fancy electronics biggrin.gif
I am rapidly finding out the truth in this statement. Thanks for the reply.
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post #463 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 07:39 AM
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Can someone explain to me what the THX Ultra2/Select2 Subwoofer setting does?

You have the option of selecting "Yes" or "No."
The owners manual only says that if your subs are THX -certified,
then the "Yes" position should be selected.

I've played around with this setting selecting, "Yes" then "No."
I noticed that when I selected "Yes" my subs seemed "restrained."
When I selected "No" my subwoofers seemed to be more "robust."

What say you guys?

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post #464 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 12:29 PM
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Can someone explain what happens when you put your bluray player in auto mode and at the same time you put your 3009 source select to "through" which engages the vida processor as witnessed on the S&M disc.? I ask this because I have been experimenting with different settings on my BR player and receiver. I have an Oppo 93. If I select "source direct" on the Oppo and set the Onkyo source select to "through" the Vida is doing the processing of course. I think it looks slightly better than engaging the Marvell Kyoto in the Oppo and setting the Onkyo to"direct" which bypasses the Vida processor. When I engage both, I think the picture looks best on my Umr calibrated Kuro. I'm just not sure what's happening when I do this. Anyone want to take a stab at this?

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post #465 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 12:52 PM
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Can someone explain what happens when you put your bluray player in auto mode and at the same time you put your 3009 source select to "through" which engages the vida processor as witnessed on the S&M disc.? I ask this because I have been experimenting with different settings on my BR player and receiver. I have an Oppo 93. If I select "source direct" on the Oppo and set the Onkyo source select to "through" the Vida is doing the processing of course. I think it looks slightly better than engaging the Marvell Kyoto in the Oppo and setting the Onkyo to"direct" which bypasses the Vida processor. When I engage both, I think the picture looks best on my Umr calibrated Kuro. I'm just not sure what's happening when I do this. Anyone want to take a stab at this?

Well the "through" function on the Onkyo won't touch PQ, but will adjust resolution depending on what your resolution settings are. The "direct" setting won't adjust PQ nor will it touch resolution. Based on this it doesn't sound like the Vida is doing a whole lot of anything in either setting.

If I had to take a shot in the dark the "source direct" setting on the oppo most likely bypasses the Marvell Kyoto. I'd have to look at the manual to be sure though. Pretty much it sounds like you like the PQ exactly as it was mastered on the disc without anything else touching it.


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post #466 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 01:17 PM
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Source direct does indeed bypass the Marvell in the Oppo. When I put in the S&M test disc with the clip of the car and the fans in the stadium,engaging "through" eliminates the moire as the car zips past the stands. With the receiver in direct, the moire appears. Same with the Oppo. If the receiver is set to "direct" and the Oppo in source direct, moire appears. Put the Oppo in auto and the moire is gone. So my assumption was that engaging "through" on the Onkyo is the equal of engaging auto on the Oppo . Both seem to engage their respective processors.So what happens if both are engaged.?

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So nobody knows what the THX Ultra2/Select2 Subwoofer setting does?

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post #468 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hifi59 View Post

Source direct does indeed bypass the Marvell in the Oppo. When I put in the S&M test disc with the clip of the car and the fans in the stadium,engaging "through" eliminates the moire as the car zips past the stands. With the receiver in direct, the moire appears. Same with the Oppo. If the receiver is set to "direct" and the Oppo in source direct, moire appears. Put the Oppo in auto and the moire is gone. So my assumption was that engaging "through" on the Onkyo is the equal of engaging auto on the Oppo . Both seem to engage their respective processors.So what happens if both are engaged.?

It says right in the Onkyo manual that "through" doesn't do anything to the PQ except adjust resolution. Ergo, the vida is not doing anything except adjusting the resolution to match whatever resolution settings you have activated.

Why not just try it?


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post #469 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 02:34 PM
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So nobody knows what the THX Ultra2/Select2 Subwoofer setting does?

I'm not entirely sure, but it probably adjusts the low frequency and LFE signals being sent to the sub. Just some extra processing that you really don't need. My guess would be that it adjusts the low frequency/LFE so that it (supposedly) meets THX standards for Ultra or Select (whichever your receiver is certified for).


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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

It says right in the Onkyo manual that "through" doesn't do anything to the PQ except adjust resolution. Ergo, the vida is not doing anything except adjusting the resolution to match whatever resolution settings you have activated.
Why not just try it?

The manual does say that,but if that were true,then why would the S& M test disk clearly show that something is taking place other than resolution when through is engaged . I am sending the receiver a 1080p bluray signal from the Oppo, thus no resolution change is taking place but yet the moire pattern disappears from the test disc when through is engaged.

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post #471 of 941 Old 09-03-2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hifi59 View Post

The manual does say that,but if that were true,then why would the S& M test disk clearly show that something is taking place other than resolution when through is engaged . I am sending the receiver a 1080p bluray signal from the Oppo, thus no resolution change is taking place but yet the moire pattern disappears from the test disc when through is engaged.

I think you misunderstand what that the test disc is for (or maybe I do), but from my reading of various spears and munsil threads (including the one right here on AVS) and owning it myself the disc is to test various pieces in the video chain. Its not to identify, necessarily, if and when video processing is taking place, it's to examine which pieces of the video chain are best suited to handle the video signal. This means that if you are passing everything through and not engaging any video processing at the blu-ray player or the receiver, you end up testing your display to see how it processes the video signal. This would explain why if you pass everything through both machines it looks good, since you have a kuro.


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post #472 of 941 Old 09-04-2012, 02:28 AM
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I'm not entirely sure, but it probably adjusts the low frequency and LFE signals being sent to the sub. Just some extra processing that you really don't need. My guess would be that it adjusts the low frequency/LFE so that it (supposedly) meets THX standards for Ultra or Select (whichever your receiver is certified for).

Thanks fuzz for the reply.

All I know is my subs perform much better when I select the "no" option.
Played the opening of Flight of the Phoenix on blu-ray and was floored by all the extremely
deep and very powerful bass content in the plane crash landing sequence.

It's like I'am discovering all the great bass content in my blu-rays for the very first time.
They never sounded or felt this great with my Yamaha receivers.

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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Thanks fuzz for the reply.
All I know is my subs perform much better when I select the "no" option.
Played the opening of Flight of the Phoenix on blu-ray and was floored by all the extremely
deep and very powerful bass content in the plane crash landing sequence.
It's like I'am discovering all the great bass content in my blu-rays for the very first time.
They never sounded or felt this great with my Yamaha receivers.

That's not surprising many people have said the THX setting (or audyssey for that matter depending on who you're talking to) say that they stifle the subs. I leave the THX off as well and then just raise the sub level after running audyssey. Hopefully I'll be able to get rid of audyssey this Christmas with a new toy I have my eye on biggrin.gif


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post #474 of 941 Old 09-04-2012, 09:37 AM
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Hopefully I'll be able to get rid of audyssey this Christmas with a new toy I have my eye on biggrin.gif

Agreed. This is the way IMHO http://www.datasatdigital.com/cinema/products/ap20.php
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post #475 of 941 Old 09-04-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by naamanf View Post

Agreed. This is the way IMHO http://www.datasatdigital.com/cinema/products/ap20.php

Interesting, looks pretty like a pretty awesome device. Also looks expensive, which is why I'm probably going to go with mini-dsp biggrin.gif


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post #476 of 941 Old 09-04-2012, 11:08 AM
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Interesting, looks pretty like a pretty awesome device. Also looks expensive, which is why I'm probably going to go with mini-dsp biggrin.gif

It is and it is. I have a miniDSP in a box that I've been playing with for a while and it is cool for what it is.
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It is and it is. I have a miniDSP in a box that I've been playing with for a while and it is cool for what it is.

mini-dsp + REW should make a darn good room correction pair, plus I want to try mini-dsp out anyways to see if it will be right for something else I have planned.


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post #478 of 941 Old 09-05-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

That's not surprising many people have said the THX setting (or audyssey for that matter depending on who you're talking to) say that they stifle the subs. I leave the THX off as well and then just raise the sub level after running audyssey. Hopefully I'll be able to get rid of audyssey this Christmas with a new toy I have my eye on biggrin.gif

Actually, I like what Audyssey does.
In fact, I'll never buy another receiver without it.
Coming from a Yamaha receiver with YPAO, Onkyo with Audyssey has been a godsend.

I've been tinkering with the settings.
Here are the settings, IMHO, that produce the best results with both music and flicks:

Audyssey Flat/Music Curve... "ON"
THX Cinema Mode... "ON"
THX Re-EQ... "ON"

THX Ultra2/Select2 Subwoofer... "NO"
THX BGC... "OFF"
THX Loudness Plus... "OFF"
Dolby Volume... "OFF"
Equalizer... "OFF"
Dynamic EQ... "OFF"
Dynamic Volume... "OFF"

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post #479 of 941 Old 09-05-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

I'm not entirely sure, but it probably adjusts the low frequency and LFE signals being sent to the sub. Just some extra processing that you really don't need. My guess would be that it adjusts the low frequency/LFE so that it (supposedly) meets THX standards for Ultra or Select (whichever your receiver is certified for).

The Onkyo 3009 receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Sub EQ HT and my four subwoofers =

"HOME THEATER NIRVANA!!!" smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

*Because you can never have to much bass, when it comes to action/sci-fi movies on blu-ray,
with lossless audio.

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post #480 of 941 Old 09-05-2012, 05:03 PM
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Good for you, however I don't think anything that doesn't allow the user to see the FR graph before and after the processing occurs, not to mention not being able to tweak any of the settings or have a manual/quasi-manual mode is very useful.

If only more receivers came with trinnov, then I wouldn't need to bother with mini-dsp or possibly that data sat doo dad that has my interest piqued.


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