Rotel RSP-1572 Up and Running - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:58 PM
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@ Nelsun,

it doesn't fix the audio lock delay but it does fixed some of the issues i was havin with my HDMI inputs. i'm still waiting for Rotel to response to my email 'bout a firmware update maybe fix other issues to my processor. i wanted to get the Primaire processor but can't afford it during that time.

any of you could please tell me if you had to make adjustments to the EQ. if you did, what were your settings?
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:08 AM
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Nelsun,

Has any progress been made on the audio-lock-delay? I registered a couple of years ago and posted in the Rotel RSP-1570 topic. I have the RSP-1570 which most of you know by now, exhibit the same audio-lock-delay issues. I have considered "upgrading" to the 1572 in the hope it would fix this (as well as HDMI 1.4 being a nice addition) but after reading about the same issues being around, I probably won't.

Thanks for those that have done some research to figure out why this is happening. I know, at the time when I got my 1570 and experienced it, I did too - doing lots of reading, testing, talking to support, even getting a few FW upgrades. Nothing solved it and after some time, I just gave up caring. It's still an annoyance, but one that I have learned to live with. Apart from that, I'm really happy with it. Seeing the 1572 out, I had high hopes that this would be finally resolved and a thing of the past, but sadly, it does not seem so.

Joomi:
That link you posted from that HDMI stabilizer - if it doesn't solve the audio delay issues - what does it solve? What issues did you have?

Cheers Phil / conceptics
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:09 AM
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Hi Phil,

Thanks for asking and I'm glad to see another owner whose been trying to sort this out too. I was going to update fellow member Sackrat coincidentally.

I am in conversations now with the Rotel dealer I bought my 1572 from. I recently contacted him to see if there are any updates. He's been in contact with Rotel and still trying to find a solution. The last thing he heard was a firmware update last year that minimized the delay a bit, but he was expressing that as hearsay and not something he's experienced. He sells Rotel and he knows that everyone he's sold to is having this issue and he's trying to sort this out for us.

In the mean time, I upgraded my blu ray player to the new Oppo 105. I have found the audio lock delay is occurring with this machine too via HDMI. There's some delay when I play a CD via the optical connection too. Playing a blu-ray of a TV show or movie has the audio lock delay as well at the start of the program.

One reason I bought the Oppo was to use it to not only play movies (and 3D movies) but to use that fancy DAC and output the analog audio out to the Rotel. So I'm kind of wasting that fancy DAC in the Rotel for music playback to avoid that delay. It does sound great! I have to make a change to the audio connections that my Rotel dealer advised me to do so the Oppo's analog out is going direct to the multichannel audio inputs on the Rotel so it will completely avoid any processing in the Rotel. Right now I'm using the CD input and setting it to bypass.

Hopefully my dealer will get back to me with any news from Rotel to if not fix, at least diminish the audio lock delay.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:44 AM
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Hi Nelsun,

Thanks for the update. I remember when I first encountered the audio-lock-delay that I thought I was the only person who had it or actually noticed it. My player has been mainly a PS3 (connected through HDMI) for Bluray movies and the occasional CD/DVD and/or mediaserver streaming of music. I thought this set-up might not be that common in the market that Rotel sells, so I felt pretty lost and thought it was a problem unique to the PS3. I also tried connecting it through the optical cable, but that had the same problem even more - the problem there being that everytime no sound was audible, it would clip the sound as soon as something was played (like a menu click). At least through HDMI, the problem was limited to music playback when the player switches to the next track or when I skip a track myself. Also, why reduce yourself to optical if the whole point of HDMI is to enjoy high-res multichannel encoded movies (DTS-HD etc)....

To find out more about the problem; my dealer gave me a Rotel DVD player (that I hooked up via HDMI) to try out and to my amazement, it didn't exhibit any of these problems.

I think the last that I found out about the issue (I think when I was in direct contact with the B&W Group who handles the Support overhere) was that is the way the signal is transmitted. From what I understand - the receiver guys think it's a problem of the player, and the guys who make the players, they think as long as receiver guys do it right, it should work regardless. One would think HDMI should have made this whole mess easier for everyone.

One other issue that i have is that sometimes, the RSP1570 loses the signal and mistakenly thinks the DTS signal is actually PCM. The result is very bad DTS clipping/noise that can damage your speakers. I've had this happen to me a few times at the beginning but now take extra care when fast forwarding in movies (even mute it sometimes) to make absolutely sure this doesn't happen. I've had the same issue happen with some Dolby Digital AC3 inputs as well, though they are quite rare. Also not sure if that is due the RSP1570 or the player... one way or the other, it's not very comforting. Not sure if you've ever experienced this on the 1572... I hope not.

I'm not sure, but if you search my post history on here, you should find the old topic of the RSP1570. I think there was some good information posted there on the same issue.

But yeah, as I said, I've learned to deal with it and not be bothered by it anymore.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the update. I might give the RSP1572 a go (I will test it first), simply because it might be the last of the 15 series and I like the idea of being a bit future proof with the HDMI 1.4, although I still have no interest in 3D movies at home. What I might be a bit concerned about on the new RSP1572 is the new remote (?) and I was wondering if the Faroudja scalar introduces some lag - and if yes, how much? It's probably a non-issue, but I actually bought a projector with a low picture latency because I use it for gaming where latency is crucial. Given that I have a RMB-1575 and the RSP1570, sticking with the 15 series would be nice as it fits in nicely.

Picture of my setup: home_setup.jpg

Cheers Phil
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:02 PM
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Cool set-up Phil!

I have not experienced anything like you described, except the audio lock delay which I've circumvented for stereo music by going the analog route and using the Oppo's DAC. I also noticed that using the Oppo's HDMI port 1 to send the video signal to the video display, the image quality seems better using the Oppo to drive that. Recent movies really pop! Like Prometheus and Die Hard 5.

I may eventually connect all the analog outputs from the Oppo to the Rotel and try that route for movies. For now, I'm very happy with the audio performance from the Rotel when movie soundtracks are processed through it. I just have to accept the audio lock delay and like you, I just live with it.

I'm still optimistic this will be somewhat remedied by Rotel. But I understand the other members who are less optimistic.

And I'll try to look up your earlier posts about the 1570 issues you are having. Beyond the audio lock issue which is a deal breaker for a lot of people, it is a nice machine. Sounds great and looks great.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:27 AM
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Yeah, I agree. If you ever do receive an update that fixes this, it would be great if you could update us. I might not post regularly here (I did used to read this board occasionally during the beginning of Bluray/HD-DVD), but I do receive emails every time a new post is placed in this topic.

If you want to keep up-to-date with the software updates, you can check this link btw:
http://bwgroupsupport.com/download/software

Here you can see what new FW updates are released and it says it in the press-release information what has been fixed.

I actually just checked the FW updates for my RSP-1570 and indeed, I can't see any of the newer FWs making any progress on the audio-lock-delay. But after just reading my posts from 2009 in the other RSP1570 topic, I now actually recall that the audio-lock-delay was much worse in the beginning (delays of 5 seconds! compared to the ~2 seconds now). From what I understand, the 1572 is still at 2 seconds delay, right?

Anyway, I also tried to retract the research I did 3-4 years ago when I first encountered the problem. At the time, I also read that the component that causes this issue, is a part (or chip) that comes from a Chinese plant (which Rotel Classe and some others use) and that the only alternative is one that is produced in Japan (I think Denon, Sony and some others use this one and does not exhibit this problem). Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read this and I can't find the link anymore. I also don't know how accurate this information is/was.

What I did find however is this topic from another board where the issue is also discussed at length. It might be for the RSP-1570 (and not 1572) but I would think it is just as relevant given the issue is still the same:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?37834-RSP-1570-Sick-of-HDMI-Handshake-issues

Hopefully this doesn't set back your hopes on getting a fix. I'm really extremely happy with my amplifier and processor otherwise. Anyway, good luck (for all of us) on hopefully an update that will fix this.

Cheers Phil
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:13 AM
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I hate to be a pessimist on this topic but believe you deserve accurate info.
The delay cannot be corrected IMO. It's a design (limitation by many) of the chipset used.
Rotel are aware of this. This is the 3rd generation model that they used this chipset.

If I'm not mistaken, other manufactures like Cary Audio use the same Cirrus Logic board
which defaults to analog over digital. Thus, they experience the same delay on some of their models too.

I owned a Rotel 1069 and 1570 which both exhibited the same delay. It's not a firmware fix that's required.
It's a new design direction.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:18 AM
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They do seem to be taking care of one HUGE mistake. Latest 2 Amp announcements are NOT class D. That'll be a big help.

Rode that dead horse all the way down. rolleyes.gif

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Old 06-29-2013, 08:23 AM
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That is a smart call. I owned the Rotel RMB-1077 which had the more expensive B&O ICE modules. That was the best model from 2005.
Then they got progressive worse.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptics View Post

Nelsun,

Has any progress been made on the audio-lock-delay? I registered a couple of years ago and posted in the Rotel RSP-1570 topic. I have the RSP-1570 which most of you know by now, exhibit the same audio-lock-delay issues. I have considered "upgrading" to the 1572 in the hope it would fix this (as well as HDMI 1.4 being a nice addition) but after reading about the same issues being around, I probably won't.

Thanks for those that have done some research to figure out why this is happening. I know, at the time when I got my 1570 and experienced it, I did too - doing lots of reading, testing, talking to support, even getting a few FW upgrades. Nothing solved it and after some time, I just gave up caring. It's still an annoyance, but one that I have learned to live with. Apart from that, I'm really happy with it. Seeing the 1572 out, I had high hopes that this would be finally resolved and a thing of the past, but sadly, it does not seem so.

Joomi:
That link you posted from that HDMI stabilizer - if it doesn't solve the audio delay issues - what does it solve? What issues did you have?

Cheers Phil / conceptics
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:05 AM
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@ Phil- one of the sources connected: a cox cable box creates a hissing without it and also corrects the output formats. you don't have to install it unless your cable box is from cox or other cable companies or don't connect a cable box to the processor.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradise_newf View Post

I hate to be a pessimist on this topic but believe you deserve accurate info.
The delay cannot be corrected IMO. It's a design (limitation by many) of the chipset used.
Rotel are aware of this. This is the 3rd generation model that they used this chipset.

If I'm not mistaken, other manufactures like Cary Audio use the same Cirrus Logic board
which defaults to analog over digital. Thus, they experience the same delay on some of their models too.

I owned a Rotel 1069 and 1570 which both exhibited the same delay. It's not a firmware fix that's required.
It's a new design direction.

As I understand it, the RSP-1572 defaults to analog then switches to digital hence the delay which you say cannot be corrected.

What I do not understand however, is not all CDs I play exhibit this problem. Some play fine some do not. Also, this may be the reason some RSP-1572 users do not experience the problem.

The question for me is why/what is it that only certain CD pressings cause the issue and why the Rotel processor software cannot correct for all CDs.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:32 PM
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I have an update in regards to my search for a fix to the audio lock delay on the 1572.

I was always optimistic there might be a fix or at least a serious improvement, so in deference to Paradise_newf, I am still optimistic. I know Rotel knows about this problem and they obviously have their reasons for doing things the way they are.

I bought the new Oppo 105 a few weeks ago and had been playing it stock right out of the box to the Rotel. The audio lock was just as bad there with audio via the HDMI and coaxial Toslink connections. last night I finally had a chance to do some experimenting with the system now that the Oppo has had some time to play.

What I did was reset the inputs by setting up from the Oppo to the Rotel via optical Toslink to the CD input and set it to default to PCM 2 ch and left the HDMI to V1. Then of course I used the Analog outs from the Oppo's Sabre DAC and used the Multi in, LF and RF inputs at the suggestion of the Rotel dealer. This will totally bypass any processing by the Rotel and you get the pure audio out from the Sabres. (Before I used the bypass setting when connected to the CD input via the RCA jacks. )

Then here's the twist. I had the Oppo audio outs left at the factory default settings. After doing a little reading, I used bitstream out from the Oppo for the toslink connection to the Rotel so it will process through its DAC via the CD setting on the Rotel. And the HDMI audio out was also set to bitstream. This way I let the Rotel process the audio from blu rays.

The big surprise is that the audio lock delay is severely reduced when playing audio now that I'm using bitstream out. So when I played the tittle track of Band on the Run, the first 4 or 5 guitar notes used to be cut off. Now only part of the first note is cut off! That's a huge improvement for me. My guess is that with the bitstream setting, the Rotel is able to lock onto the audio format a lot faster then before. ( it can see all the flags it needs to see to understand what format to lock onto) If I had known about bitstream, I might have tried that on the Sony blu-ray player I was using before the Oppo.

For a blu ray TV show like Star Trek The Next Generation, the first few seconds of the episode audio were always cut off. Now its just barely cut off. Not perfect, but a massive improvement.

I spoke to the Rotel dealer a fews ago and he's been working with the Rotel rep. The next step is for me to take the Rotel to the dealer and they will update the firmware. The unit is still using the factory installed firmware, so it's several generations behind. My thinking is that the new firmware might resolve that last bit of delay to the point that it's gone. And this might do it for sure with the optical connection. As far as the HDMI connection, it was improved as well, so I'm optimistic that the delay will be gone from there too.

With this set-up, i was able to use the remote's CD and multi button to switch between the Optical in and the analog bypass multi-input. The audio performance from the Oppo's Sabre DAC's was a surprising difference. Did it sound better then the Rotel's DAC? At first listen, I thought it was better! Vocals were more upfront. Certain musical instruments were also more upfront. I feel like I'm hearing what Kal heard when he reviewed the 1572! It also sounded louder when I listened from the analog bypass connection. But I think what I'm hearing is simply more upfront processing of certain elements the Rotel's DAC is leaving more muted. Bass is stronger, highs are crystal clear and sharper! And the midrange is also more present. Of course this difference is audible, but not earth shattering. But you know what I mean.

When I listened to the Goldfinger soundtrack that was remastered from 1993, the James Bond theme guitar seemed livelier. Shirley Bassey was more upfront during the title track. The John Barry percussion portions of the soundtrack were really lush.

I think I could be pretty happy with the Rotel DAC's sound too. Both are really good! of course you pay for that Sabre DAC, so I'm going to be listening more and comparing more from Jazz, to more film scores and some rock and acoustic and symphonic suites. I'll put it through more paces now that the system is not doing the audio lock delay as badly. And I'll let you know what I find after the firmware is up to date.

It's looking promising.

I forgot to add, I had tried playing music files ripped from my CD collection with Apple Lossless. I connected my Macbook Pro to the Rotel via the synchronous USB port in back. I played several tracks and those sounded great too, but this was before I did the multi inputs on the Rotel from the Oppo. So that will be tested too.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:55 AM
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I know Rotel knows about this problem and they obviously have their reasons for doing things the way they are.

Their reasoning is simple - economies of scale. i.e Its cheaper to maintain the same design.
Rotel doesn't have the $ Yamaha and Pioneer have to constantly update their chipset to the latest and greatest.
Thus, you get a facelift, a few minor tweaks and a 1980's interface in my opinion from model to model.

Their service is top notch with 2nd to none product support. Support for stuff they can actually correct however.

Parasound took a smarter approach in my opinion, and designed the P7 processor so that the processing is done external to the unit.
They didn't pretend to be able to pull it off. Actually the president published an explanation on their web site explaining why they cancelled doing home theatre processing.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:59 PM
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I know you've said the reasons before for the reasons why Rotel is not on top of the HDMI problem.

Rotel may be smaller then companies like Yamaha and such. It's hard to believe a company like this cannot afford more R&D dollars to develop the HDMI solutions. But I suppose they may be like Criterion, a small specialty company that specializes and their dollars are carefully spent on products they know are within their customer base and interest.

I think I read a post that you may have written that Rotel's main customer base and for similar products from Classe are not really into using HDMI and care mainly about pure audio. The HDMI and movie soundtrack capability is a delightful bonus. But the real customer base just cares about audio and 2 channel stereo via analog while the disc drive does all the DAC work.

At any rate, I'm really encouraged that my experimenting with the settings and the addition of the use of bitstream from the Oppo seems to have severely cut down the problem. And I'm really hoping the new firmware to eliminate it totally via Toslink and be eliminated enough via HDMI so the truncation is no longer audible. I'm almost there.

I'm curious how others are doing with this problem and if they have found solutions with resolving the HDMI audio lock delay.
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:02 PM
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Any new reviews on this product? Thinking about replacing my RSP 1066. I'm using it as just a preamp, analog input from my Oppo 103 the the "Multi Input" jacks, then pre outs to my amps and sub. HDMI goes from the Oppo to my Sony 55ES.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:38 AM
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Any updates on this?

Thinking of upgrading my Pre/pro to a few year old model...

Suggestions??
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Old 12-20-2014, 04:31 AM
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Unhappy

So it seems my Rotel RSP-1570 is vulnerable to the DTS Bomb issue after i got hit in 2 movies sofar under DTS-HD with loud pops from the rear speakers.

Cant say i am pleased. For the record, the two movies so far seem to be:

Edge of Tomorrow EU (German DTS-HD track)
The Equalizer US (English DTS-HD track, at 00:31:36)

Since reading up on the issue, i've read that Tron: Legacy is also a movie that exhibits the Bomb issue. I can sadly confirm that this film also holds scenes that produce loud electric pops from my rear speakers. While the pop sounds/artefacts arent that loud like some other amplifiers seem to produce, they are substantial and IMHO could damage my speakers.

I am on Firmware 1.2.1 (dates to September 2009) and the latest that is available for my Rotel is 1.2.8 (dec 2010), i'm hopeful this can be solved... (Although the firmware release pdf doesnt state that this issue exists and has been fixed which render me a bit doubtful all the same).

Great.



Anyway, two questions for Rotel 15 series owners:

- have you experienced DTS Bomb issues on your system while bit streaming DTS-HD? If yes, what amp and firmware version do you have?

- has anyone ever upgraded their RSP1570/1572 on their own from home? Any advice? It's weekend here and i can't go to B&W Group for an update until next Tuesday - if i'm lucky - and i'm kind of trading off going through the huge task of disconnecting all cables and a 1 hour drive for something that may not actually work and solve the issue.


Damn, lock on issues, i've learned to live with - but this seriously puts a huge dent into 5 years of happy ownership. I love my speakers and i'm quite hostile towards my Rotel now thatb it could damage them.

Sorry if this post ruins some Rotel owners day. I hope you are unaffected. :S
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Old Today, 07:07 AM
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Just a quick update;

After spending some time with a RSP-1572 that I was given by my dealer to test - I have encountered that it suffers from the same sound artefacts in affected movies with DTS-HD MA streams. I have reason to believe that this is in fact the DTS-HD MA bitstream bomb bug as refered to in the other topic I linked above.

So... if you are an owner of a RSP-1570/RSP1572 or other Rotel (maybe even Classé?) surround receivers, be aware that there are movies with potential sound issues where popping / clipping / audible crackling could cause potential damage to either your speakers or amplifier when hit hard enough at loud enough volumes.

I have tested this now on 3 movies:

- Edge of Tomorrow / EU Release - German DTS-HD MA track @ 00:34:32 (example AAC recording at 29 seconds)
- The Equalizer / US Release - English DTS-HD MA track @ 00:31:37 (example AAC recording at 18 seconds)
- Tron: Legacy / EU Release (possibly US as well) - English DTS-HD MA track @ ~01:18:40 / elevator scene

I have reason to believe that since this is probably the same issue as reported in the other topic, that other movies are affected as well, such as The Fly, Master and Commander, Chronos and possibly many more etc. I have not tested these movies yet and am trying to track them down as we speak to make sure. If anyone has a Rotel receiver / surround processor, if you have these movies - be aware if you are bitstreaming DTS-HD MA to your system and perhaps post your feedback if you have those movies and/or have made similar encounters. The more information there is, the better.

I have contacted B&W/Rotel support.

Last edited by conceptics; Today at 07:16 AM.
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