Emotiva, BEWARE of emotiva / issue resolved - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > Emotiva, BEWARE of emotiva / issue resolved
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 05:47 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I don't see beta testing as being expensive if a company like Emotiva uses volunteer beta testers. If Emotiva followed Oppo's lead in that they have been using volunteer beta testers for quite some time with much success. Emotiva just has to implement a beta testing program but in the past they have been hesitant to do so.

Bill

I believe your bold statement is a comparison.

Definition of COMPARISON
1
: the act or process of comparing: as

b : an examination of two or more items to establish similarities and dissimilarities

MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 05:49 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Well I hate to say it but you are wrong once again biggrin.gif. The reason why the XMC-1 is delayed is because Emotiva keeps changing the platform and doing total design changes. How can you beta test a component when it isn't yet finalized wink.gif.

Bill

I am sure that you have inside info on this.

Should a product actually be finalized before beta testing gives positive results.

I wonder why a conglomerate like Onkyo continues to have problems if they do beta testing.
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 06:26 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I believe your bold statement is a comparison.

Definition of COMPARISON
1
: the act or process of comparing: as

b : an examination of two or more items to establish similarities and dissimilarities

It was more of a suggestion than a comparison wink.gif. Nice work with the Websters biggrin.gif. How can one compare Oppo's beta testing to Emotiva's if Emotiva doesn't do any beta testing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I am sure that you have inside info on this.

Should a product actually be finalized before beta testing gives positive results.

I wonder why a conglomerate like Onkyo continues to have problems if they do beta testing.

No inside information here. Just reading over at the Lounge and here on AVS. You should give it a try wink.gif. I would think a company would not beta test a product till the design has been finalized. Why bother beta testing a product if there will be major design changes wink.gif. There you go again slamming Onkyo smile.gif. Do you even know if Onkyo does or doesn't do beta testing.

What no snappy comebacks on your thoughts on the "$7000" Oppo knock off biggrin.gif?

Bill
Elmo C's Avatar Elmo C 06:54 PM 04-25-2013
I've owned almost every OPPO ever made, except the last generation. Every one was released with bugs, later most fixed' not all. To act like a $100 dvd player is a prepro is pretty small minded, imo.....Some people just have a chip on their shoulder because Emotiva does not ask/use their opinion on how to run a business. Those people should start their own business, then we'll visit their site and cry about their model lol.....smiley faces.
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 07:09 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

I've owned almost every OPPO ever made, except the last generation. Every one was released with bugs, later most fixed' not all. To act like a $100 dvd player is a prepro is pretty small minded, imo.....Some people just have a chip on their shoulder because Emotiva does not ask/use their opinion on how to run a business. Those people should start their own business, then we'll visit their site and cry about their model lol.....smiley faces.

Hey Moe,

Come on where is your sense of humor, you take this stuff much to seriously biggrin.gif. I find it interesting that you have owned just about every Oppo ever made and say they all had issues. I would think after the first few that had issues you would buy something else wink.gif. I'm not sure if your above post is aimed at me but I never acted like a "$100" DVD player is a prepro. Where do you come up with this stuff? If anyone seems like they have a chip on their shoulder it would be you smile.gif. PM me if you want me to show you how to quote a post or use smiley faces smile.giftongue.gifsmile.gif.

Bill
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 07:46 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

It was more of a suggestion than a comparison wink.gif. Nice work with the Websters biggrin.gif. How can one compare Oppo's beta testing to Emotiva's if Emotiva doesn't do any beta testing?
No inside information here. Just reading over at the Lounge and here on AVS. You should give it a try wink.gif. I would think a company would not beta test a product till the design has been finalized. Why bother beta testing a product if there will be major design changes wink.gif. There you go again slamming Onkyo smile.gif. Do you even know if Onkyo does or doesn't do beta testing.

What no snappy comebacks on your thoughts on the "$7000" Oppo knock off biggrin.gif?

Bill

Following your thoughts I took it as a comparison. Please be more specific next time. I Only threw out the &7000 for fun. I will also be more accurate if you will.

I do read the lounge occasionally.

How can you think I slam Onkyo and not think that you slam Emotiva? A little reading on most any forum (as you suggested I do) would prove that I am not slamming, simply presenting the truth. Do you know if Onkyo or Emo does beta testing?

BTW, this started with me kidding and included smileys. Please start taking your own advice as you just suggested.
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 08:10 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Following your thoughts I took it as a comparison. Please be more specific next time. I Only threw out the &7000 for fun. I will also be more accurate if you will.

I do read the lounge occasionally.

How can you think I slam Onkyo and not think that you slam Emotiva? A little reading on most any forum (as you suggested I do) would prove that I am not slamming, simply presenting the truth. Do you know if Onkyo or Emo does beta testing?

BTW, this started with me kidding and included smileys. Please start taking your own advice as you just suggested.

You can follow your thoughts wherever they go. I was specific twice when explaining that it wasn't a comparison. Any more attempts to explain it to you would be a waste of time smile.gif. Please show me where I was "slamming" Emotiva. Sometimes when facts are being discussed some see them as "slamming" a specific company wink.gif.

Bill
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 08:19 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

You can follow your thoughts wherever they go. I was specific twice when explaining that it wasn't a comparison. Any more attempts to explain it to you would be a waste of time smile.gif. Please show me where I was "slamming" Emotiva. Sometimes when facts are being discussed some see them as "slamming" a specific company wink.gif.

Bill

Thanks for validating that I am not slamming Onkyo. Simply giving the facts.
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 08:33 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Thanks for validating that I am not slamming Onkyo. Simply giving the facts.

What facts wink.gif?

Bill
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 09:50 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

What facts wink.gif?

Bill

The fact that they are plagued. Please do not ask more until you can comprehend all the negative comments on this site.

I am sure that it is getting as old as your comments about Emotiva..
bo130's Avatar bo130 11:04 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

I've owned almost every OPPO ever made, except the last generation. Every one was released with bugs, later most fixed' not all

I don't recall Oppo ever releasing a player that had the same outcry (severity) of issues that the Emotiva pre/pros have had. Oppo's players have a well earned reputation as being one of the (if not the) finest blu-ray players on the market, and their reputation and customer service is (arguably) unmatched in the consumer electronics industry. Yes, that includes Emotiva.

I would say that Emotiva's reputation as a maker of amplifiers is strong amongst enthusiasts.

Still, Oppo releases players, and the lions share of their functions work just fine when the customers receive them. They don't wait several months or years to gain overall functionality with their units.
MichaelJHuman's Avatar MichaelJHuman 11:48 PM 04-25-2013
This is an old thread, that someone resurrected. I remember reading about international customers and having problems getting a fix from Emo. Who should either deal with supporting overseas customers, or not ship to them. No idea what their current policy is.

As for quality, there's been various issues. Mine "blew up" when I plugged it in. They were very quick to replace it, even shipping it before they got the dead unit. The current unit works fine.

I have two subwoofers from them, that have been trouble free.

I would prefer someone produce an affordable five channel class D amp for the home theater market. Class AB amps like the XPA-5 are too heavy for comfort, IMO. Maybe one day emo will throw their hat into that market
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac 11:58 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

I don't recall Oppo ever releasing a player that had the same outcry (severity) of issues that the Emotiva pre/pros have had. Oppo's players have a well earned reputation as being one of the (if not the) finest blu-ray players on the market, and their reputation and customer service is (arguably) unmatched in the consumer electronics industry. Yes, that includes Emotiva.

I would say that Emotiva's reputation as a maker of amplifiers is strong amongst enthusiasts.

Still, Oppo releases players, and the lions share of their functions work just fine when the customers receive them. They don't wait several months or years to gain overall functionality with their units.

I agree with your thoughts on Oppo players. When certain members here read the smallest amount of negativity towards Emotiva (even when completely justified) they just have to deflect it towards other brands. It is almost like a family member is being insulted wink.gif. There is no secret that Onkyo has had reliability issues with their AVRs and prepros. From what I have read the Onkyo xx09 and xx10 series are much better. But I'm sure there are still issues that pop up though.

The earlier post mentioning all the "bugs" on many Oppo players without one mention of what those "bugs" are is a joke. Are Oppo players perfect? No way are they perfect as my 103 froze up twice today requiring me to unplug it. This has happened a few times in the past. Other than that my 103 has been trouble free. But if someone in the Oppo thread mentioned the same issue I'm not going to say "what about the issues with Emotiva components" wink.gif. It really would be refreshing to see the "select few" just say "yes it is true that Emotiva has had some issues with their prepros". But instead it is the old point the finger at other companies reflex action.

Bill
visiter555's Avatar visiter555 07:19 AM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

It's back on Sale


XPA-1L Monoblock Power Amplifier



Yet still not shipping...

Only accept what Emo says if it can be held in your hand and does exactly what it is supposed to do...

Emo's promises aren't worth the "cloud" that is out there...

where is the UMC-1 3D upgrade board?

Where is the UMC-1 firmware update promised circa Nov 2011?

Where is the XMC-1? (hmmm...five years ago it was promised...soon. lol)

Where is the UMC-200 f/w update?

Where is the UMC-500?

and the list could go on for a long time...

Their amps are normally very good, BUT they have failures there as well...the pre/pros? Failures ... with loads of promises to look after and take care of...and for heaven's sake if you are not in the Continental US, you are screwed. It takes a lot to get any parts shipped and the 30 day guarantee is useless and the time zone issues and they don't appear to have any methodology to look after international customers.
EmotivaKeith's Avatar EmotivaKeith 04:08 PM 04-26-2013
Just for the record, I will say it "Yes, we have had a few problems with some of our pre/pros".

The fact is that every complex product has had some sort of problems - regardless of who made it, and regardless of the price. At the moment I have a UMC-200 at home, and an Oppo 93. I use the UMC-200 pretty well every evening, but I only use the Oppo about twice a week (I play mostly audio and Cable TV). Since I've had both, I've had to turn the Oppo off and on again to get it unstuck twice, and I had to reset the UMC-200 once. By today's standards that makes both pretty darned reliable. (I have to reboot my computer at least once a week.)

A pre/pro is a very complicated product, which is why they have more problems than amplifiers. Problems with pre/pros tend to be fixable with firmware; when an amplifier fails it's usually hardware, and it usually requires a hardware fix. CD and Blu-Ray players fall somewhere in the middle.

We sold a lot of UMC-1's. The UMC-1 had some problems, but, believe it or not, the vast majority of people who bought them didn't have any problems at all. The great joy of today's "connected" world is that you get to hear about the problems but not the NON-problems. The UMC-200 works very well, for most people, most of the time. We had several beta units out with friends for quite a while; we found and killed a bunch of bugs... but a few got away... it happens. We also learn from our past mistakes. That's why the first (and hopefully one of very few) firmware update for the UMC-200 is taking so long; we want to make sure it's right the first time. That's also why the C-1 is taking so long; we want to make sure it's thoroughly tested before we offer it for sale.

The XPA-1L is very reliable and it sounds very good.

The "problem" with the XPA-1L was that, due to a firmware glitch, they were dropping from Class A into Class A/B when they shouldn't (the safety sensors were reading wrong, so they thought they were getting too hot and the safety protocols would switch them back into Class A/B). Sadly, none of our beta testers picked up on it because they sound so good in Class A/B nobody noticed when they dropped back into it. Since it only happened on some units, by luck it didn't happen on the ones where we were watching the power meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I agree with your thoughts on Oppo players. When certain members here read the smallest amount of negativity towards Emotiva (even when completely justified) they just have to deflect it towards other brands. It is almost like a family member is being insulted wink.gif. There is no secret that Onkyo has had reliability issues with their AVRs and prepros. From what I have read the Onkyo xx09 and xx10 series are much better. But I'm sure there are still issues that pop up though.

The earlier post mentioning all the "bugs" on many Oppo players without one mention of what those "bugs" are is a joke. Are Oppo players perfect? No way are they perfect as my 103 froze up twice today requiring me to unplug it. This has happened a few times in the past. Other than that my 103 has been trouble free. But if someone in the Oppo thread mentioned the same issue I'm not going to say "what about the issues with Emotiva components" wink.gif. It really would be refreshing to see the "select few" just say "yes it is true that Emotiva has had some issues with their prepros". But instead it is the old point the finger at other companies reflex action.

Bill

bo130's Avatar bo130 04:15 PM 04-26-2013
Keith thank you very much for posting what it is that you said above.
EmotivaKeith's Avatar EmotivaKeith 04:24 PM 04-26-2013
I have to take exception with the tone of this post.

Emotiva offers the same warranty as most other companies (well, ours is a LOT longer, but, other than that......).

We NEVER refuse to service ANY product that is returned to us for service under warranty. Because shipping inside the US is cheaper, we can offer to pay shipping to US customers when they buy a product, and return shipping to US customers of warranty repairs. Since overseas shipping is more expensive, we ask our overseas customers to pay their own shipping. (I guess we could make the shipping free and raise our prices.)

Likewise, our overseas customers get the same 30 day return privilege as anybody else; it's not our fault that the shipping to return the product is expensive for them (we don't get that money). We usually offer to send parts and let our international customers get the service done locally because it is cheaper for them. The situation is no different than if I were to order something from overseas. In most cases, I would be expected to ship it back to the manufacturer if I wanted warranty service.

Anybody who isn't happy with that arrangement, and wants the right to do a local return, should buy their products locally. Lots of people do. Apparently, there are a lot of people all around the world who don't figure they can get the same quality gear as we sell at competitive prices locally.

The UMC-1 3D board was something we tried to do and failed - it happens.

The UMC-1 has had several firmware updates; in general, we never PROMISED any specific update, and have issued updates when it was worthwhile.

The XMC-1 is on the way, and really will be available soon. Wait if you like, buy the UMC-200 or something from one of our competitors if you can't wait. Don't hold your breath, that would be silly.

The UMC-200 firmware update is being revised, and will be out soon; but not before it works right.

The UMC-500 is still on the way...

Ciao
Emotiva

Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

Yet still not shipping...

Only accept what Emo says if it can be held in your hand and does exactly what it is supposed to do...

Emo's promises aren't worth the "cloud" that is out there...

where is the UMC-1 3D upgrade board?

Where is the UMC-1 firmware update promised circa Nov 2011?

Where is the XMC-1? (hmmm...five years ago it was promised...soon. lol)

Where is the UMC-200 f/w update?

Where is the UMC-500?

and the list could go on for a long time...

Their amps are normally very good, BUT they have failures there as well...the pre/pros? Failures ... with loads of promises to look after and take care of...and for heaven's sake if you are not in the Continental US, you are screwed. It takes a lot to get any parts shipped and the 30 day guarantee is useless and the time zone issues and they don't appear to have any methodology to look after international customers.

Friendly Fire's Avatar Friendly Fire 05:18 PM 04-26-2013
Keith,

Thanks -- I've read enough here and elsewhere to have a reasonable feel for your company.

Haven't told the wife yet, but the next sale I'm pulling the trigger.

Can't hardly wait.
cavchameleon's Avatar cavchameleon 06:17 PM 04-26-2013
I'd like to chime in with my experience with Emotiva. I have a couple of their amps (XPA-3 and XPA-2). The XPA-3 had an issue about 3 years after I purchase it. It started shutting down (going into protection mode). I made a call to Emotiva and we ruled out my connections. So, I sent it off to them. I got it back in 7 day (that is really quick for being fixed and returned - including shipping time). The issue was that a part was out of spec. I have to hand it to them for their customer service. It was curteous, quick, and the problem resolved. Since then, it's been rock solid. My XPA-2 has never had issues. All my communication with my issue was with Fran Flynn, who was extremely professional and friendly. I'm sure the rest of their crew is the same.

Am I a Fanboy - no, not for any products. I just belive in getting a good product for the price and Emotiva (plus many other companies, have products from over 30 different ones) fit my bill.

I do wish Emotiva would come out with a high power Class D amp in the future for subs, that would be awesome (especially for my back wink.gif).
jevans64's Avatar jevans64 01:05 AM 04-27-2013
I think products not working as advertised or having an unusually high number of defects plagues the entire electronics industry. This is mostly due to Chinese manufacturing and the amount of commitment it takes to babysit a design through the production process. The Chinese have been known to substitute components in a tested design without notifying the client. Even if the stuff was made in the USA, half of the components used to build probably came from China. I have a Commodore 64 from the early 1980's that still works fine but a modern PC ( made in China ) won't last 3 years without something failing. Same with televisions. I'm not knocking Emotiva because their stuff is made in China. 99% of ALL electronics is either made in China or the Far East. That is OUR fault for wanting cheap stuff.

Smaller companies have more problems simply because they don't have the resources to put into testing. When problems are found it usually takes a lot of time to correct them because the logistics of communicating with manufacturing in China. Problems are going to slip through the testing phase and into final production if only 20 or 30 people are doing the testing. Even corporations like MicroSoft, which have 100,000 beta testers, have a lot of problems with products. The more complicated a product is the more problems there will be and the longer they will take to fix.

Disc players, like the Oppo, are going to have problems every time the studios come out with new copy protection.

I doubt we will see Class D amps from Emotiva. Doesn't that have to be licensed from Bang & Olufsen? They have got a lot on their plate anyway with Sherbourn and Bob Carver plus their advanced pre-pros. I'd like to be able to buy a DC-1 and UMC-500 first.
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 11:54 AM 04-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I doubt we will see Class D amps from Emotiva. Doesn't that have to be licensed from Bang & Olufsen?
No. B&O doesn't "own" Class D topology.
They make the ICE Power branded amp modules, which they bought from the designer.
There are tons of Class D amplifiers on the market.

BTW, I am an early adopter of the XPA-1L amplifier.
To be totally accurate there has been 2 issues with the amp:
1. The Class A to A/B firmware switch over that Keith mentioned above.
2. A grounding issue that required a part(s) replacement.

My replacement amps were shipped on April 25th.
Yeah, it's been hard to be patient because this amp has so much promise for me.

Emotiva has handled this as all companies should which is to say excellent.
Take that for what it's worth.

There is more than one ID brand that has a very loyal following and its share of "fanboys" who take umbrage at criticism.
FWR, I've seen some pretty nasty anti-Emo threads on other forums that show just how ignorant\close-minded certain "audiofacistas" are.
But this is the internet. Grow a thick hide. smile.gif
For me it's also easy to spot posters who have some sort of hard-on against a particular brand.
If you've been screwed, I can see why but as far as I've been able to tell Emotiva doesn't screw their customers.
It should seem obvious, there are so many vendors to buy from if you don't like Emotiva, buy something else.
wse's Avatar wse 12:29 PM 04-27-2013
So how does the XLA-1 sound any reviews yet, would they work well with Magnepan!
Milt99's Avatar Milt99 01:53 PM 04-27-2013
They just shipped on Thursday.
Next week at the earliest, check the Emotiva forum.
zackie2's Avatar zackie2 02:33 PM 05-07-2013
I have bought several gear rom them great products and great service
unbridled_id's Avatar unbridled_id 02:39 PM 05-09-2013
"The XMC-1 is on the way, and really will be available soon"....... Perhaps it's best to just forget about the thing until it is released..

I wonder if they have had their outing in the Chicago burbs... I am tempted to drop by and see things.
visiter555's Avatar visiter555 07:05 AM 05-21-2013
Keith,

1. Emotiva never cancelled the 3D board, they just hoped people would get tired of asking.

2. Emotiva stated in November of 2011 on the Emo forums that there would be another f/w update shortly to fix the remaining problems. See # 1 above.

3. The latest (Jan 2012?) email to XMC-1 wait list people said that further information would be mailed out regarding delivery of the XMC-1 shortly to arrange delivery & payment. See #1 above.

4. UMC-200 f/w...well, there are enough comments on this on the internet including your statement that no list of fixes were ever promised which several people posted a response to (Dan's commitment to deliver said list in a post). By the way, the list of bugs in the new f/w is growing...so maybe the "works right" didn't get done?

5. The new UMC-500 may be "on the way", but until it show up...see #1.

Reading your posts over the last months does indicate that you get extremely aggressive & defensive when anyone questions you or comments (with information) that your statements may not be 100% accurate. It is never a good thing to try and make a company look better by stating that "the XYZ company is far worse than us". That just doesn't cut it these days.

Emotiva make good amps...but that is NOT what I am discussing here, it is strictly the Pre/Pros and the issues surrounding the communication and problems related to them.

In regard to your statement on shipping and out of country clients, you really need to read the comments of your non-US clients. There is a lot of frustration out there. You "usually" offer to ship parts, but what about the others that you don't? When you have sales you have to phone to get pricing and purchase because if someone e-mails they are second class in response time and it takes a series of e-mails to order something (first ask price, then get response, then order hoping there is still stock).

Take a deep breath and relax, this is just a hobby.

Have a good day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmotivaKeith View Post

I have to take exception with the tone of this post.

Emotiva offers the same warranty as most other companies (well, ours is a LOT longer, but, other than that......).

We NEVER refuse to service ANY product that is returned to us for service under warranty. Because shipping inside the US is cheaper, we can offer to pay shipping to US customers when they buy a product, and return shipping to US customers of warranty repairs. Since overseas shipping is more expensive, we ask our overseas customers to pay their own shipping. (I guess we could make the shipping free and raise our prices.)

Likewise, our overseas customers get the same 30 day return privilege as anybody else; it's not our fault that the shipping to return the product is expensive for them (we don't get that money). We usually offer to send parts and let our international customers get the service done locally because it is cheaper for them. The situation is no different than if I were to order something from overseas. In most cases, I would be expected to ship it back to the manufacturer if I wanted warranty service.

Anybody who isn't happy with that arrangement, and wants the right to do a local return, should buy their products locally. Lots of people do. Apparently, there are a lot of people all around the world who don't figure they can get the same quality gear as we sell at competitive prices locally.

The UMC-1 3D board was something we tried to do and failed - it happens.

The UMC-1 has had several firmware updates; in general, we never PROMISED any specific update, and have issued updates when it was worthwhile.

The XMC-1 is on the way, and really will be available soon. Wait if you like, buy the UMC-200 or something from one of our competitors if you can't wait. Don't hold your breath, that would be silly.

The UMC-200 firmware update is being revised, and will be out soon; but not before it works right.

The UMC-500 is still on the way.Ciao
Emotiva

David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 09:33 PM 05-28-2013
Hee hee, I'm still waiting for Emotiva's response on my request for a review unit; I guess my 20,000+ readers worldwide means nothing to Emotiva biggrin.gif
wse's Avatar wse 09:48 PM 05-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Hee hee, I'm still waiting for Emotiva's response on my request for a review unit; I guess my 20,000+ readers worldwide means nothing to Emotiva biggrin.gif

That's too bad how about the XPL-1 class A amp?
David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 09:59 PM 05-28-2013
Because of the shipping weight, my readers (mostly outside North America, 30% in Canada) are more interested in the UMC-200 pre-pro. It is surprising when Panasonic trust me with their pre-production ZT60 to be previewed and Sony with their 65" 4K TV and their $25k VPL-1000 projector yet I can't get a $600 unit approved to be reviewed. The only other companies who turned down my requests are Bose, LG and Soundmatters... And you know the lack of quality coming from their products. Makes one wonder, y'know. wink.gif
runnin''s Avatar runnin' 12:26 AM 05-29-2013
Emotiva tends to stay with the cheer leading reviews at audioholics, those guys have reviewed 8 or 9 Emotiva products in the last year or so.
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