EP4000 vs. Inuke DSP 3000 w/ (2) JTR Captivators and an Omnimic. Which amp is better? - AVS Forum
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a saturday free - my new Dayton Audio Omnimic in hand and the desire to figure out which amp is better or even how they differ.

What's the best way to determine which amp is the one to keep?
1) Behringer EP4000
2) Behringer Inuke DSP 3000

The caps are wired for 2ohm, and the amps are both driving one sub per channel. I'm going to take some frequency response measurements, max spl is out, what other ideas are there?

Outside of just crazy max SPL attempts which the Omnimic won't even grab because i'm well over 120dB clean with either setup.

I have the gear - please help me with the knowledge!

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Old 11-27-2011, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Luke Kamp came over tonight, and we played around with the two amps.

As best we can tell the EP4000 has a bit more headroom, but the DSP on the INuke DSP 3000 likely makes it a winner.

Tomorrow I'll try to add the FR charts of the best we could do with an EP4000 with a MIC2200 combo vs. the best we could do with the Inuke DSP 3000. We spent about the same amount of time on setup.

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Old 12-06-2011, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the answer I discovered so far in my testing.

All charts taken with Dayton Audio OmniMic - No smoothing on any of the OmniMic graphs.

With the EP4000 amp, the black line is the best we could do in my room with a 15 hz tune on the caps with no audyssey, no HPF, and no EQ. The green line is the best we could do with the caps in a 20hz tune with mic2200 with hpf/subsonic filter at 20 and the mic2200 eq being used to knock down the hump at about 70hz. Again - no Audyssey engaged for either graph. The subs were facing forward for these charts.


here are the mic2200 settings when using the 20hz tune.





Since then a friend and I played with the Inuke DSP 3000 and omnimic a bit more. We discovered that facing the subs towards the room's outside walls is better for frequency response in my room. Using the builtin INuke DSP - we got a darn flat graph on my Captivator Pro pair with 20hz tune at his point -- Audyssey was still turned off, and the MIC2200 was out of the loop. This second freqency response graph is taken solely using the Inuke DSP with 6 bands of Parametic EQ applied and the INuke's HPF set at 20hz. I can't quite get rid of the little bump at 20hz, if I put a PEQ band at exactly 20hz much above about -1dB it lowers the FR below flat at 20hz --- and if I take off the HPF at 20hz I get a big bump around 20hz (subs tuning). If I have my choiced I'd rather have a little bump at 20hz rather than a little dip - so I left it where it was without cutting out any more dB at 20hz.

NO smoothing on this graph!



Here are my Parametric EQ, HPF, and amp settings on the INuke.







Overall - Thumbs up! for the Inuke DSP, and the OmniMic! I think the EP4000 may have a bit more power, but it isn't worlds different - I'll likely be looking to sell my EP4000 and Inuke after seeing the greater EQ ability on the Inuke.

Next I'll try the 15hz tune.

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Old 12-06-2011, 07:50 PM
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This is simple.

Drop a EP4000 from 10 feet up on top of an iNuke.

Drop a iNuke from 10 feet up on top of an EP4000.

Which one survives?

Class D is for whimps who can't pick up a real man's amp.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The drop test would be one way of determining a winner yes.

After playing with both I decided to keep the Class D Inuke DSP 3000 amp. If a 6000 watt Peavey IPR amp comes out with DSP and the capability to run 2ohm stable stereo - then I'll probably be switching to the IPR at some point. The Inuke DSP 6000 won't run 2ohm stereo, but the DSP 3000 will, so there's no advantage to me buying the INuke DSP 6000. (my subs are dual voice coil and configured currently to run at 2ohm).

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Old 12-19-2011, 10:31 PM
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All joking aside, great comparison.
It seems the DSP on the iNuke is well-done, to say the least.

I think I missed it, but do you use the DSP in *addition* to Audyssey?
I'm using just XT32 with my EP4000, and see no need for extra DSP.
Did you have some nasty humps Audyssey couldn't tame?
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

All joking aside, great comparison.
It seems the DSP on the iNuke is well-done, to say the least.

I think I missed it, but do you use the DSP in *addition* to Audyssey?
I'm using just XT32 with my EP4000, and see no need for extra DSP.
Did you have some nasty humps Audyssey couldn't tame?

None of the charts on this page are using Audyssey. I don't think Audyssey can get as flat as I was able to get with the omnimic and Inuke DSP. I'll have to measure and see. I can easily reset my Inuke amp profile and kick off an Audyssey session and then measure it. Maybe I can make that happen Friday.

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Old 12-20-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

None of the charts on this page are using Audyssey. I don't think Audyssey can get as flat as I was able to get with the omnimic and Inuke DSP. I'll have to measure and see. I can easily reset my Inuke amp profile and kick off an Audyssey session and then measure it. Maybe I can make that happen Friday.

Of course, you understand that a flat frequency response is only part of what Audyssey does, right? The time domain corrections is does are even more important.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Of course, you understand that a flat frequency response is only part of what Audyssey does, right? The time domain corrections is does are even more important.

sure...I turned audyssey on to get the distance measurements originally, and then turned it off to try to get the EQ as best I can on the subs without it. I'll run it again when I have the chance.

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Old 01-22-2012, 10:47 AM
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I'm curious about the result you had at your Blind listening GTG where the iNuke lost it with the CHT or vice versa.
I was driving an LMS 5400 in a 6.1 sealed with a Crown XTi4000 and experienced what I thought was driver bottoming. The final analysis, after discussions with Crown and Thilo and Kyle (TC Sounds) was that the Crown amp was oscillating and making what I thought was the bottoming sound. The LMS will not bottom with the watts available from the Crown at 20Hz where the noise occurred. Watts @ 20Hz with the Crown estimated to be only 800.
Is it possible the iNuke experienced the same thing ie: an "oscillation" whether it be electrical, mechanical, or a combination of the two?
On another isssue, when is the iNuke 6000/7500 estimated to arrive if ever?
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

I'm curious about the result you had at your Blind listening GTG where the iNuke lost it with the CHT or vice versa.
I was driving an LMS 5400 in a 6.1 sealed with a Crown XTi4000 and experienced what I thought was driver bottoming. The final analysis, after discussions with Crown and Thilo and Kyle (TC Sounds) was that the Crown amp was oscillating and making what I thought was the bottoming sound. The LMS will not bottom with the watts available from the Crown at 20Hz where the noise occurred. Watts @ 20Hz with the Crown estimated to be only 800.
Is it possible the iNuke experienced the same thing ie: an "oscillation" whether it be electrical, mechanical, or a combination of the two?
On another isssue, when is the iNuke 6000/7500 estimated to arrive if ever?


Did that oscillation occurr before the clip lights showed?

The Inuke was most definately clipping on the movie portion of the audition (according to our prior testing on Friday Night, and our retesting on Sunday. However, on Sunday's in depth retest we can clearly say we heard 'bad noise' coming from the driver on the 100hz to 20hz sine sweep without the amp clipping lights ever lighting up. With that wave sound we were 2-3 signal lights (no clip light ever) we retested several times. I was prepared to attribute it to room noise or something knocked loose in the drywall panels, but we retested on Sunday with the HSU pair a couple hours later with identical settings and did not hear the noise at 20hz, nor have I heard it since in retesting with my Cap pro pair. All with identical setups. None of the music section clipped on the inuke amp for the CHT pair. We retested the songs including bass i love you and nothing in the retest made the Inuke amp clip lights come on. So if the inuke could actually give out before the clip lights ever lights up on a slow sine wave then that would tarnish the results. If not, then the drivers were at their limits (with the +4 dB boost at 20hz applied). During the movie section of our blind audition the clip lights were coming on hard during a couple scenes - so in those tests I would say the amp was out of gas too. I can tell you with my cap pro pair (2ohm vs. CHT's 8 omh load) I've never heard the inuke made a bad noise even in clipping, though I have seen the amp power cycle on a half dozen + occassions when it's asked too much of. The JTR driver is rated for 7200 watts peak however and there are two of them, and so the inuke in full clip probably doesn't pass enough power to make them make a bad noise. I am curious though if you experienced the oscillation on the crown amp before clip lights.

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Old 02-04-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Did that oscillation occurr before the clip lights showed?

The Inuke was most definately clipping on the movie portion of the audition (according to our prior testing on Friday Night, and our retesting on Sunday. However, on Sunday's in depth retest we can clearly say we heard 'bad noise' coming from the driver on the 100hz to 20hz sine sweep without the amp clipping lights ever lighting up. With that wave sound we were 2-3 signal lights (no clip light ever) we retested several times. I was prepared to attribute it to room noise or something knocked loose in the drywall panels, but we retested on Sunday with the HSU pair a couple hours later with identical settings and did not hear the noise at 20hz, nor have I heard it since in retesting with my Cap pro pair. All with identical setups. None of the music section clipped on the inuke amp for the CHT pair. We retested the songs including bass i love you and nothing in the retest made the Inuke amp clip lights come on. So if the inuke could actually give out before the clip lights ever lights up on a slow sine wave then that would tarnish the results. If not, then the drivers were at their limits (with the +4 dB boost at 20hz applied). During the movie section of our blind audition the clip lights were coming on hard during a couple scenes - so in those tests I would say the amp was out of gas too. I can tell you with my cap pro pair (2ohm vs. CHT's 8 omh load) I've never heard the inuke made a bad noise even in clipping, though I have seen the amp power cycle on a half dozen + occassions when it's asked too much of. The JTR driver is rated for 7200 watts peak however and there are two of them, and so the inuke in full clip probably doesn't pass enough power to make them make a bad noise. I am curious though if you experienced the oscillation on the crown amp before clip lights.

`
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The clip lights did not come on. BUT, I may have had the "protection" levels set without knowing it. The XTi has a protection circuit that might have caused the oscillation. I'm still not sure. I've never tried to recreate the scenario and never have. I've taken the "protection" out of my normal playing pattern and run the sub full blast if needed. It's rarely needed. I'm always turning down the AVR and mains long before I run out of SUB.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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There's a 15% off coupon today at guitar center. If anyone is interested in an Inuke DSP amp -

$400 - 15% = $340

coupon code game46

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