Yamaha RX-A800 or yamaha RX-v571 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 12-03-2011, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Im trying to decide which one to get. Best bang for the buck.

This http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A800...pr_product_top for $425

or this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...15315&Tpk=v571 for $314

I plan on buying the energy take 5.1 classics to run on this and I will hook up a ps3 pc and wii

I dont care about network features really
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post #2 of 28 Old 12-03-2011, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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i heard one person say that Just stay away from receivers that give you cheap 1 khz specs, on the front
channels, like the Yamaha 571

i dont understand why that would be bad though
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post #3 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 02:53 AM
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It's bad because the 1hkz rating deceives you into thinking your receiver is much more powerful than it really is.

The A800 is a much better receiver than the 571. The Aventage line use better components and comes with a 3 year warranty. Plus the A800 has dual HDMI outputs, preouts for adding an external amplifier and a larger power supply. Newegg actually put that receiver on sale for $299 about a month or so ago for a one or two day sale.

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post #4 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 06:21 AM
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The A800 is a much better receiver. Discrete amp, better build quality, multi-point YPAO, preouts, etc. The 671 would be a harder comparison as it offers networking.
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post #5 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 08:45 AM
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Newegg had the a800 for 299 a couple months ago. Unfortunately, the older models are now becoming extinct. It may go even cheaper somewhere else, but it will be a quick sellout.

The A700 is priced closer to the v571.
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post #6 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that guys, but keep in mind I have no intention of adding an amp. awhile back i was gonna complete a set of psb image series speakers and do all that but im 21 and in college so i need to be more realistic.

These were the speakers I was planning on getting based on the reviews and whatnot http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic...3031598&sr=8-1

i know I could find better used ones for the same price but im not really trying to complicate things like I did before and I dont want anything too big.

So I guess my question is that is the A800 worth getting for a set of 400 dollar speakers and a sub???

aside from higher build quality from a800 the only other factor of it that appeals to be is the 2 hdmi outs.

I just wanna make sure if im spending more or around the same for a receiver as i am for speakers that its worth it.

if you guys know of any receivers for the same price or lower that are as good or better let me know. or any good sites to get them Or if I should just wait for new models
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post #7 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 02:18 PM
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Its just a better all around receiver.

Quote:
aside from higher build quality from a800 the only other factor of it that appeals to be is the 2 hdmi outs.

The A800 has a discrete amp section and the RX-V571 does not.

Why dont you just get this? I'd rather have it than the Yamaha 571. And the Denon 1911 uses Audyssey MultiEQ which will calibrate/eq your subwoofer. The Yamaha will not. Free shipping too.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

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post #8 of 28 Old 12-04-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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How much better quality would the discrete amp provide?

What about this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115329

keep in mind the speakers i am getting are 100 watts.

I am currently using this http://www.amazon.com/Harman-AVR-140...pr_product_top with a set of infinity speakers. The AVR is my dads and he wants to keep it when I move out so that's why I am in the market for a new one

I would like the RX-v671 but Its more than I want to spend at the moment and seeing as it says its deactivated on newegg it doesn't look like they will be having any sort of sale on it again yet alone having it at all

Im looking for the best bang for my buck essentially. If I get the energy take 5.1 classics which at this point is what im pretty much set on and dont really want to spend anymore on speakers Im hesitant on spending more on a receiver than speakers. The take 5.1s are rated at 90-100 watts. Obviously no PSB, paradigm, B&W, etc type speakers. Im understand the higher quality of the A800, but is that higher quality for this setup worth the extra $110 dollars?
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post #9 of 28 Old 12-09-2011, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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NOOO! Newegg put the A800 on sale today for 300 and I missed it!

I kind of hate these sales because they say sold out even though they definitely are not sold out because the next day they are back up.
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post #10 of 28 Old 12-09-2011, 06:19 PM
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They are sold out of the units set aside at that price. True, they likely have more, but that's supposed to keep you checking their site.
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post #11 of 28 Old 12-09-2011, 07:08 PM
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Get on their email list so you can make a quick purchase next time.

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post #12 of 28 Old 12-09-2011, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

NOOO! Newegg put the A800 on sale today for 300 and I missed it!

I kind of hate these sales because they say sold out even though they definitely are not sold out because the next day they are back up.

They've had it on sale for that price a few times this month so far.

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post #13 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I am on the list. I get the emails that's how I saw it but it still sold out within hours.

There is some company on ebay who sells a lot of new yamaha avrs for cheaper. Like I can get the 671 for 380 or the a710 for 400
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post #14 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 04:12 PM
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I hate to say this, in the middle of this Yamaha lovefest, but have you considered Onkyo receivers?

My listening to various systems people have has convinced me that the sound quality of Onkyo receivers is much better than Yamaha. I can listen to all kinds of music for a couple of hours and an Onkyo still sounds nice, and a Yamaha usually makes me want to walk away after 30 minutes; not nice. I start to get a headache. I think it's called "listener fatigue".

Anyway, the Onkyo TX-NR609 is $377 on Amazon at the moment, which is a very good deal (MSRP is $599), and I sure would buy that instead of the ones you are talking about. There are also lower-priced Onkyos that would be better; that is only one example.

Good luck in any case.

**********************************************************

I plan on buying the energy take 5.1 classics to run on this and I will hook up a ps3 pc and wii

I dont care about network features really[/quote]
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post #15 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 04:27 PM
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It's the law, sport; the FTC says that all amplifiers have to be tested at 1KHz with an 8 ohm resistor load for 30 minutes at half of the rated power and the distortion published and that the heat sinks must stay below a certain temperature. It is a valid test of the heat sinks.

This distortion spec is a joke, because any amp that isn't actually broken will give you around .01% distortion, which is absolutely meaningless. The same amp will give anywhere from 1% to 8% distortion when amplifying actual MUSIC and with a SPEAKER connected.

Another thing that is a complete lie is that the manufacturer just adds up the individual power ratings of the 7 channels and claims that it has 700 watts of power or what ever. The fact is that the power supply of a 100 watt per channel receiver typically has a power supply that will put out 400-500 watts maximum. If you ever tried to drive all 7 channels to 100w at the same time, fuses will blow or diodes will pop. If you read carefully, the specs always refer to a test with one or maybe 2 channels driven; not more.

An amplifier just loves a resistor for a load, but a speaker system has large amounts of nasty old capacitance and inductance, which can drive the amplifier crazy, and make it distort like hell. How much distortion happens depends mainly on how good the output transistors are, how much current capacity the amplifier power supply has, and how much capacitance and inductance a particular speaker has.

Since these things are expensive to improve, and the engineer who designs these things is on a shoestring budget, your typical HT receiver has a LOT of distortion in its output. I designed amplifiers for a living for 30 years, and I have put hundreds of amplifier circuits through distortion tests on an analyzer, so I KNOW! (how much you actually NOTICE the distortion depends on a lot of variables like what you are listening to, speaker accuracy, and room acoustics; but the distortion is definitely there to hear)

Any moron who says that all amplifiers have low distortion should stop and ask himself why recording studio engineers and other audio professionals spend several thousand dollars each for Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research and similar amps for their monitors. THEY HAVE LESS DISTORTION AND SOUND BETTER...DUHHHH. AND THEY COST THAT MUCH BECAUSE LOW DISTORTION DOES NOT COME CHEAP. Professionals can HEAR the difference and buy what SOUNDS GOOD; low distortion products.

Anyone that all amplifiers have essentially the same amount of distortion has never designed one or properly tested one. People like this probably think that granny's Toyota Celica could win a NASCAR race because all cars are just the same.

There are people on these forums that actually claim that no amplifier has any distortion that is meaningful. My 30 years of designing amplifiers tells me that every amplifier has significant distortion, and that tests on a distortion analyzer prove it every day, and that every attempt to engineer less distortion into an amplifier involves choosing more expensive components. Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research, and other low-distortion amplifiers cost thousands of dollars per channel to buy, and there is a damn good reason why.
************************************************************ ****************

[quote=sealteamz6;21297424]i heard one person say that Just stay away from receivers that give you cheap 1 khz specs, on the front
channels, like the Yamaha 571
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post #16 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 05:07 PM
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????????????????????????????????????

"The A800 has a discrete amp section and the RX-V571 does not."-quote
*******************************************************
No it does not!

No HT receiver has a "discrete amp section". That would imply that the amplifier section has its own power transformer and power supply, completely separate from the rest of the receiver's circuits.

High-end stereo amplifiers often have this, but I have never seen it in an HT receiver (and if one exists, I'm sure it it costs at least $1500).
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post #17 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 05:30 PM
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post #18 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

^^^^

http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/aud...product_lineup

one example

OK; I went there; it says "discrete amp configuration" twice, but in 3 pages of explaining the features it never says one word to explain what the __ they mean by that! I have no idea what that actually MEANS, and neither does anyone else. In the absence of any details, I will have to assume it is pure advertising boilerplate bull!
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post #19 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 06:39 PM
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[quote=commsysman;21366324]It's the law, sport; the FTC says that all amplifiers have to be tested at 1KHz with an 8 ohm resistor load for 30 minutes at half of the rated power and the distortion published and that the heat sinks must stay below a certain temperature. It is a valid test of the heat sinks.

This distortion spec is a joke, because any amp that isn't actually broken will give you around .01% distortion, which is absolutely meaningless. The same amp will give anywhere from 1% to 8% distortion when amplifying actual MUSIC and with a SPEAKER connected.

Another thing that is a complete lie is that the manufacturer just adds up the individual power ratings of the 7 channels and claims that it has 700 watts of power or what ever. The fact is that the power supply of a 100 watt per channel receiver typically has a power supply that will put out 400-500 watts maximum. If you ever tried to drive all 7 channels to 100w at the same time, fuses will blow or diodes will pop. If you read carefully, the specs always refer to a test with one or maybe 2 channels driven; not more.

An amplifier just loves a resistor for a load, but a speaker system has large amounts of nasty old capacitance and inductance, which can drive the amplifier crazy, and make it distort like hell. How much distortion happens depends mainly on how good the output transistors are, how much current capacity the amplifier power supply has, and how much capacitance and inductance a particular speaker has.

Since these things are expensive to improve, and the engineer who designs these things is on a shoestring budget, your typical HT receiver has a LOT of distortion in its output. I designed amplifiers for a living for 30 years, and I have put hundreds of amplifier circuits through distortion tests on an analyzer, so I KNOW! (how much you actually NOTICE the distortion depends on a lot of variables like what you are listening to, speaker accuracy, and room acoustics; but the distortion is definitely there to hear)

Any moron who says that all amplifiers have low distortion should stop and ask himself why recording studio engineers and other audio professionals spend several thousand dollars each for Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research and similar amps for their monitors. THEY HAVE LESS DISTORTION AND SOUND BETTER...DUHHHH. AND THEY COST THAT MUCH BECAUSE LOW DISTORTION DOES NOT COME CHEAP. Professionals can HEAR the difference and buy what SOUNDS GOOD; low distortion products.

Anyone that all amplifiers have essentially the same amount of distortion has never designed one or properly tested one. People like this probably think that granny's Toyota Celica could win a NASCAR race because all cars are just the same.

There are people on these forums that actually claim that no amplifier has any distortion that is meaningful. My 30 years of designing amplifiers tells me that every amplifier has significant distortion, and that tests on a distortion analyzer prove it every day, and that every attempt to engineer less distortion into an amplifier involves choosing more expensive components. Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research, and other low-distortion amplifiers cost thousands of dollars per channel to buy, and there is a damn good reason why.
************************************************************ ****************

Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

i heard one person say that Just stay away from receivers that give you cheap 1 khz specs, on the front
channels, like the Yamaha 571

sport?
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post #20 of 28 Old 12-18-2011, 09:49 PM
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Relax, most of these guys being rude online are total wusses in real life; they just need to get rid of that steam while they are getting bullied around in the real world.
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post #21 of 28 Old 12-19-2011, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

It's the law, sport; the FTC says that all amplifiers have to be tested at 1KHz with an 8 ohm resistor load for 30 minutes at half of the rated power and the distortion published and that the heat sinks must stay below a certain temperature. It is a valid test of the heat sinks.

This distortion spec is a joke, because any amp that isn't actually broken will give you around .01% distortion, which is absolutely meaningless. The same amp will give anywhere from 1% to 8% distortion when amplifying actual MUSIC and with a SPEAKER connected.

Another thing that is a complete lie is that the manufacturer just adds up the individual power ratings of the 7 channels and claims that it has 700 watts of power or what ever. The fact is that the power supply of a 100 watt per channel receiver typically has a power supply that will put out 400-500 watts maximum. If you ever tried to drive all 7 channels to 100w at the same time, fuses will blow or diodes will pop. If you read carefully, the specs always refer to a test with one or maybe 2 channels driven; not more.

An amplifier just loves a resistor for a load, but a speaker system has large amounts of nasty old capacitance and inductance, which can drive the amplifier crazy, and make it distort like hell. How much distortion happens depends mainly on how good the output transistors are, how much current capacity the amplifier power supply has, and how much capacitance and inductance a particular speaker has.

Since these things are expensive to improve, and the engineer who designs these things is on a shoestring budget, your typical HT receiver has a LOT of distortion in its output. I designed amplifiers for a living for 30 years, and I have put hundreds of amplifier circuits through distortion tests on an analyzer, so I KNOW! (how much you actually NOTICE the distortion depends on a lot of variables like what you are listening to, speaker accuracy, and room acoustics; but the distortion is definitely there to hear)

Any moron who says that all amplifiers have low distortion should stop and ask himself why recording studio engineers and other audio professionals spend several thousand dollars each for Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research and similar amps for their monitors. THEY HAVE LESS DISTORTION AND SOUND BETTER...DUHHHH. AND THEY COST THAT MUCH BECAUSE LOW DISTORTION DOES NOT COME CHEAP. Professionals can HEAR the difference and buy what SOUNDS GOOD; low distortion products.

Anyone that all amplifiers have essentially the same amount of distortion has never designed one or properly tested one. People like this probably think that granny's Toyota Celica could win a NASCAR race because all cars are just the same.

There are people on these forums that actually claim that no amplifier has any distortion that is meaningful. My 30 years of designing amplifiers tells me that every amplifier has significant distortion, and that tests on a distortion analyzer prove it every day, and that every attempt to engineer less distortion into an amplifier involves choosing more expensive components. Bryston, Boulder, Audio Research, and other low-distortion amplifiers cost thousands of dollars per channel to buy, and there is a damn good reason why.

I have to warn you....
There's a group of people on this forum that will state that all amps and receivers sound the same and if you try to convince them otherwise, they'll plug their ears and say 'la la la' really loud and claim that either a) You're biased b) You have dogmatic beliefs that are wrong c) You think you have golden ears when no one in the entire world does d) It's been scientifically proven that you're wrong by some guy who claims that unless you can pick the better amp 24 out of 24 times, you can't hear a difference e) the amps and/or receivers are clipping or outside of their designed range f) You didn't do a double blind test g) All of the above. It's usually g.
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post #22 of 28 Old 12-27-2011, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I hate to say this, in the middle of this Yamaha lovefest, but have you considered Onkyo receivers?

My listening to various systems people have has convinced me that the sound quality of Onkyo receivers is much better than Yamaha. I can listen to all kinds of music for a couple of hours and an Onkyo still sounds nice, and a Yamaha usually makes me want to walk away after 30 minutes; not nice. I start to get a headache. I think it's called "listener fatigue".

Anyway, the Onkyo TX-NR609 is $377 on Amazon at the moment, which is a very good deal (MSRP is $599), and I sure would buy that instead of the ones you are talking about. There are also lower-priced Onkyos that would be better; that is only one example.

Good luck in any case.

**********************************************************

I plan on buying the energy take 5.1 classics to run on this and I will hook up a ps3 pc and wii

I dont care about network features really

[/quote]

The reason I havent gone for the Onkyo's is because they are extremely ugly. I feel considering the thousands of other amps out there there should be plenty for the same price that look better. I know looks really dont matter and sound is the most important but again considering the amount out there i cant see how there arent other just as good solutions.

and since when do Yamahas sound bad? I have heard nothing but good things from cnet and amazon and other reviewers. no one has said they sound like crap.
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post #23 of 28 Old 12-27-2011, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

OK; I went there; it says "discrete amp configuration" twice, but in 3 pages of explaining the features it never says one word to explain what the __ they mean by that! I have no idea what that actually MEANS, and neither does anyone else. In the absence of any details, I will have to assume it is pure advertising boilerplate bull!

A discrete amp is an amp built with discrete components like individual transistors as opposed to using chips like LM3886/LM4780/OPA541/etc. Many receivers do use those sorts of power op amps and such. They are perfectly fine to use if they provide enough power for the application, but if you feel the need to provide a million watts per channel, you probably won't find a chipamp that does it. Discrete amps are just different, not necessarily better or worse, so it's just a marketing distinction.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #24 of 28 Old 12-29-2011, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

A discrete amp is an amp built with discrete components like individual transistors as opposed to using chips like LM3886/LM4780/OPA541/etc. Many receivers do use those sorts of power op amps and such. They are perfectly fine to use if they provide enough power for the application, but if you feel the need to provide a million watts per channel, you probably won't find a chipamp that does it. Discrete amps are just different, not necessarily better or worse, so it's just a marketing distinction.

yeah, if they are not TRUE discrete amplifiers then the only real difference may be a bit better quality components.

As to the guy above talking about distortion. I appreciate the info but Im a 21 year old college student. gotta keep that in mind. Not AC/DC I dont have the money to spend on a 5000 dollar AVR and individual amplifiers and whatnot. And I really dont hear much distortion at all when it comes to a nice budget reciever. Ive been in studios and demoed very expensive speakers and yes they are amazing and sound amazing. But there is more to life than spending every penny I have on audio equipment. Even if I got the energy take 5.1 classics and a v571 I would still have a better system than the majority of people out there so good enough for me. I do appreciate the information though. thank you
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post #25 of 28 Old 12-30-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I hate to say this, in the middle of this Yamaha lovefest, but have you considered Onkyo receivers?

My listening to various systems people have has convinced me that the sound quality of Onkyo receivers is much better than Yamaha. I can listen to all kinds of music for a couple of hours and an Onkyo still sounds nice, and a Yamaha usually makes me want to walk away after 30 minutes; not nice. I start to get a headache. I think it's called "listener fatigue".

Anyway, the Onkyo TX-NR609 is $377 on Amazon at the moment, which is a very good deal (MSRP is $599), and I sure would buy that instead of the ones you are talking about. There are also lower-priced Onkyos that would be better; that is only one example.

Good luck in any case.

**********************************************************

I plan on buying the energy take 5.1 classics to run on this and I will hook up a ps3 pc and wii

I dont care about network features really

[/quote]

Do we have the case of the ********s or something? Time for some better speakers, bud. I've owned both and neither sounds better or worse than the other. Onykos just have a history of breaking down, which is why I would never own another. Must be those distorted amps you design and use on the Yamaha that makes them sound bad....
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post #26 of 28 Old 01-03-2012, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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If anyone has any knowledge or experience in the matter which reciever would be better. The yamaha v671 or the yamaha a710? I can get the v671 for $388 or the a710 for $450.

Naturally I would assume the a710 is better but how much better? Worth spending the extra 60 bucks? worth 450 if the take 5.1 classics im looking at getting are only $400?
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post #27 of 28 Old 01-17-2012, 06:10 AM
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OP..

FWIW, i was/am running a similar budget set up. currently on the yamaha a800 with vintage Infinity speakers rs425 (wow are these really vintage now?). despite what my more hifi experienced friend (yea but he's a headphone guy, he'll never get it lol) i LOVE the sound of this set up with a yst sw215 for sub. i have to admit, however, that the only reason i have this a800 is cause i waste at least a few hours every week strolling around the local best buy... and then one day this receiver was on discount for $270 i simply couldn't resist.

but from my experience thus far and having a very seasoned musician's ear, a difference of 100-200 dollars between receivers/amps in this price range is going to be negligible especially if your listening room isn't treated and you don't have high-end speakers to take advantage of a difference even if there is one. at this stage, i think an HDMI out to a receiver like this and a healthy collection of 96/24 to train your ears will prepare for the "oh **** i just spent HOW much!?" which will occur sooner than you think
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post #28 of 28 Old 01-17-2012, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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well i bought a yamaha a710 off ebay for $444. So hopefully if I take care of this AVR which I will it will last me well into the future
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