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post #1 of 35 Old 12-14-2011, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone running one of these? There isn't much information on here regarding this unit which is surprising since it seems to be a high value amp. Lots of power (2500x2 @ 2 ohm - subwoofer use) for a reasonable cost (600ish). I would think as popular as the MA5050 seems to be this would be right there with it.
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post #2 of 35 Old 12-17-2011, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Any help with fan mods to this model?
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post #3 of 35 Old 12-17-2011, 03:55 PM
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Fans may never even come on. My XLS 10000 fans never come on near as I can hear. I am using it for something different than you though.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #4 of 35 Old 12-19-2011, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Fans may never even come on. My XLS 10000 fans never come on near as I can hear. I am using it for something different than you though.

Good to hear. Wow, I didn't know there was a 10000 model though? Must be crazy.

Maybe you meant 1000?
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post #5 of 35 Old 12-19-2011, 09:10 AM
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1000 yep

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #6 of 35 Old 12-23-2011, 12:21 PM
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totally different amp technology. The XLS 1000 appears to be a class D type?, where the XLS 5000 is probably A/B? -- based on weight.

The fan levels aren't comparable. All the old school XLS videos on youtube would seem to indicate the older XLS 5000 fans aren't silent, but the question does remain on how loud they actually are?

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post #7 of 35 Old 12-23-2011, 12:26 PM
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Ah, I thought we were talking about the drive core line.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #8 of 35 Old 12-23-2011, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

totally different amp technology. The XLS 1000 appears to be a class D type?, where the XLS 5000 is probably A/B? -- based on weight.

The fan levels aren't comparable. All the old school XLS videos on youtube would seem to indicate the older XLS 5000 fans aren't silent, but the question does remain on how loud they actually are?

I'm sure it will be like most other pro amps, I'm planning on modding or replacing the fan with mine.
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post #9 of 35 Old 01-06-2012, 06:40 AM
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Anyone opened theirs yet?

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post #10 of 35 Old 01-06-2012, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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S_Rangebrew opened his last week. Fan is completely variable it seems. It is dead silent with no signal, but does ramp up with some signal input to it. He stated it measured ~5db less than the EP4000 when ramped up, but because of it's larger size the pitch of the fan was lower and less annoying. I think I'll be OK with it.

He also tested it out with his mains as his subs aren't ready yet. Apparently has a very low noise floor and sounds very comparable to the EP4000 in terms of quality.

Here is a pic of the guts - this thing is a beast:



I will be testing mine with the caps in 13 days precisely.
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post #11 of 35 Old 01-06-2012, 09:52 AM
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One transformer per channel, interesting. It's spec seems to exceed wall power by a fair amount.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #12 of 35 Old 01-06-2012, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

One transformer per channel, interesting. It's spec seems to exceed wall power by a fair amount.

To give you an indication, the amp dictates the use of a 20A dedicated line and has a NEMA 20 plug on it. The amp also has DUAL 20A breakers (one for each channel I presume) so I wouldn't be surprised if this thing pulled 40-50A for a few seconds at a time out of the wall when called to do so.
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post #13 of 35 Old 01-07-2012, 01:35 AM
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I'm still debating picking one of these up... I see good things and bad things -
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=xls...b79ae,ed88f8de

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post #14 of 35 Old 01-07-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

To give you an indication, the amp dictates the use of a 20A dedicated line and has a NEMA 20 plug on it. The amp also has DUAL 20A breakers (one for each channel I presume) so I wouldn't be surprised if this thing pulled 40-50A for a few seconds at a time out of the wall when called to do so.


Ah, it needs a 20 A circuit. I wondered if that was the case. Thanks for confirming.

At least it's not like that Macropower 10k Crown amp. IIRC, that needed some pretty special wiring, like 3 phase or something.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #15 of 35 Old 01-26-2012, 03:00 PM
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Mine came in last night from uniquesquared.

The stock fan noise is louder than the EP4000 or Inuke DSP 3000. It's lower pitched, but I believe (subjectively) louder.

I've not had a chance to vette the amplifier yet at extreme playback levels, but at lesser playback levels it sounds just like the Inuke or EP4000 - which is to be expected.

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post #16 of 35 Old 01-26-2012, 11:59 PM
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Both amps will work great. If you want a great amp for a lot less:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHEP4000

I just don't like to waste money - sorry.
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-27-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andytorr View Post

Both amps will work great. If you want a great amp for a lot less:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHEP4000

I just don't like to waste money - sorry.

You could buy that EP4000 for $263 shipped new from uniquesquared for months. I bought two at that price.
http://slickdeals.net/f/3120604-Behr...or-263-shipped

The EP4000 is a good amp and quite a bit more powerful than my American Audio V3000 amp I had before it. Like a clean 4-5dB's better on my cap pros.

I bought the Crown XLS5000 because Gorilla had some very good things to say about it in this post as compared to the EP4000.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21493780

If I get another 5dB out of the Crown over the EP4000 -- that'll really be something. I'm alreadying hitting 125dB clean in my room with the single EP4000 on my Cap Pro pair.

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post #18 of 35 Old 01-27-2012, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

You could buy that EP4000 for $263 shipped new from uniquesquared for months. I bought two at that price.
http://slickdeals.net/f/3120604-Behr...or-263-shipped

The EP4000 is a good amp and quite a bit more powerful than my American Audio V3000 amp I had before it. Like a clean 4-5dB's better on my cap pros.

I bought the Crown XLS5000 because Gorilla had some very good things to say about it in this post as compared to the EP4000.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21493780

If I get another 5dB out of the Crown over the EP4000 -- that'll really be something. I'm alreadying hitting 125dB clean in my room with the single EP4000 on my Cap Pro pair.

Turn that thing up already and let me know what you think!!

Andytorr - As far as the EP4000- Yes, it's a nice amp for the money (I own one), but I wouldn't consider upgrading "wasting" money, when it comes to squeezing out a few extra decibels.
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-29-2012, 09:54 PM
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The stock fan on the XLS5000 is too loud for home use. Mine is a smidge louder than my stock EP4000 and louder than the Inuke DSP 3000 as well.

This is the replacement fan I just ordered.
Sunon - 259-1502-ND
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/prod...502-ND/2021130

The stock fan of the XLS5000 is the BP1203824M-03 - which lists at 46dB with .22 static H20, 2400 RPM, 121 CFM, and 14.4 watts at 24 volt.


The replacement Sunon I chose matches most of the features of the stock fan including close to the same operating temp max (70*C sunon vs. 75* OEM), and includes the autorestart feature, but only measures at 37dB with .18 static H20, 2100 RPM, 93CFM, and 4 watts at 24 volt. The sunon is rated for 100,000 hours at 40*C and has dual ball bearings and operates between 10 and 28 volts. Here's hoping it's sufficient for the task!

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post #20 of 35 Old 01-30-2012, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Mine came in last night from uniquesquared.

The stock fan noise is louder than the EP4000 or Inuke DSP 3000. It's lower pitched, but I believe (subjectively) louder.

I've not had a chance to vette the amplifier yet at extreme playback levels, but at lesser playback levels it sounds just like the Inuke or EP4000 - which is to be expected.

As mentioned earlier, I measured it with an SPL meter, and it is 2-3db quieter than a EP4000. Not much, really.
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post #21 of 35 Old 01-30-2012, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

This is the replacement fan I just ordered.
Sunon - 259-1502-ND
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/prod...502-ND/2021130

The stock fan of the XLS5000 is the BP1203824M-03 - which lists at 46dB with .22 static H20, 2400 RPM, 121 CFM, and 14.4 watts at 24 volt.


The replacement Sunon I chose matches most of the features of the stock fan including close to the same operating temp max (70*C sunon vs. 75* OEM), and includes the autorestart feature, but only measures at 37dB with .18 static H20, 2100 RPM, 93CFM, and 4 watts at 24 volt. The sunon is rated for 100,000 hours at 40*C and has dual ball bearings and operates between 10 and 28 volts. Here's hoping it's sufficient for the task!

That seems like a good choice. I have my crown in the neighboring room for now still deciding if I want to fan mod it or not. I think I'm going to run the wires to the next room tonight and see if I can do a 12V triggered relay to turn it on/off. It will also be nice to have the equipment hidden in another room.
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post #22 of 35 Old 01-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyTorr View Post

Both amps will work great. If you want a great amp for a lot less:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHEP4000

I just don't like to waste money - sorry.

We are talking about the Crown XLS5000 here. It is the equivalent to two EP4000s, powerwise. So, at $550 it's about the same good deal as the EP4000, which run about $300 each. However, the XLS5000 normally costs about $1000, and it's not a very good deal at that price, IMHO. The EP4000/2500 is and always has been a FANTASTIC deal, which is why I have one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

That seems like a good choice. I have my crown in the neighboring room for now still deciding if I want to fan mod it or not. I think I'm going to run the wires to the next room tonight and see if I can do a 12V triggered relay to turn it on/off. It will also be nice to have the equipment hidden in another room.

It's the way to go these days. Really cleans up the home theater and allows you to use pro-amps with no fan mods. It used to be a pain to have the receiver hidden away because you couldn't see the front panel display, but with the great on-screen displays they have now, it's not an issue.

The only electronics in my room are the projector & speakers. The 70lbs of fury which is the XLS5000 and the whimpy 40lb EP4000 lurk in my basement. They are activated by a relay when my receiver turns on. Being A/B amps, they suck up quite a bit of power just idling (50 watts or so) so it's nice to leave them off when not in use.
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post #23 of 35 Old 01-30-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

We are talking about the Crown XLS5000 here. It is the equivalent to two EP4000s, powerwise. So, at $550 it's about the same good deal as the EP4000, which run about $300 each. However, the XLS5000 normally costs about $1000, and it's not a very good deal at that price, IMHO. The EP4000/2500 is and always has been a FANTASTIC deal, which is why I have one.



It's the way to go these days. Really cleans up the home theater and allows you to use pro-amps with no fan mods. It used to be a pain to have the receiver hidden away because you couldn't see the front panel display, but with the great on-screen displays they have now, it's not an issue.

The only electronics in my room are the projector & speakers. The 70lbs of fury which is the XLS5000 and the whimpy 40lb EP4000 lurk in my basement. They are activated by a relay when my receiver turns on. Being A/B amps, they suck up quite a bit of power just idling (50 watts or so) so it's nice to leave them off when not in use.

Just curious where did you get the relay that handles 20amps? Most I found are limited to 15, bah.
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post #24 of 35 Old 01-30-2012, 09:18 PM
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you guys with these beasty amps have any feedback?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1391011

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post #25 of 35 Old 02-01-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The stock fan on the XLS5000 is too loud for home use. Mine is a smidge louder than my stock EP4000 and louder than the Inuke DSP 3000 as well.

This is the replacement fan I just ordered.
Sunon - 259-1502-ND
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/prod...502-ND/2021130

The stock fan of the XLS5000 is the BP1203824M-03 - which lists at 46dB with .22 static H20, 2400 RPM, 121 CFM, and 14.4 watts at 24 volt.


The replacement Sunon I chose matches most of the features of the stock fan including close to the same operating temp max (70*C sunon vs. 75* OEM), and includes the autorestart feature, but only measures at 37dB with .18 static H20, 2100 RPM, 93CFM, and 4 watts at 24 volt. The sunon is rated for 100,000 hours at 40*C and has dual ball bearings and operates between 10 and 28 volts. Here's hoping it's sufficient for the task!

Well darn... The fan came in today, Before I swapped it out, I took the stock fan out of the case and let it run in open air to get an SPL reading. I measured the stock OEM XLS5000 fan in open air at 53dB from 18 inches using the omnimic.


So I connected up the new fan and...
drum roll fellas...

79dB.




The part number matches. Either I got a bum fan or the stats are SEVERELY messed up. That's 79dB when I hook it up in open air and measured from 18 inches - no matter which way the mic tip is pointed. it moves more air than the stock fan and it sounds much louder. Worse yet, when I put it up to the metal grill on the amp casing it sounds absolutely horrendously loud. I guess I'll contact Digikey and ask them what's up...

Until I figure out what's next stay far far away from the model I chose.

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post #26 of 35 Old 02-02-2012, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Well darn... The fan came in today, Before I swapped it out, I took the stock fan out of the case and let it run in open air to get an SPL reading. I measured the stock OEM XLS5000 fan in open air at 53dB from 18 inches using the omnimic.


So I connected up the new fan and...
drum roll fellas...

79dB.




The part number matches. Either I got a bum fan or the stats are SEVERELY messed up. That's 79dB when I hook it up in open air and measured from 18 inches - no matter which way the mic tip is pointed. it moves more air than the stock fan and it sounds much louder. Worse yet, when I put it up to the metal grill on the amp casing it sounds absolutely horrendously loud. I guess I'll contact Digikey and ask them what's up...

Until I figure out what's next stay far far away from the model I chose.

Thanks for the feeedback, that is strange indeed. I'd imagine something must be up with it. 79db must be LOUD considering the stock was in the 50s. I bet it wouldn't overheat ever though.
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post #27 of 35 Old 02-02-2012, 10:16 AM
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I talked with Digikey tech support. They said the sunon fan is measured at 37dB in a chamber at 1 meter from the intake side and showed me the signed and certified PDF.

That number means nothing if true because my noise floor in my 25' by 21' foot room is mid 40's and I can hear that sunon fan in open air easily throughout the whole room in open air. I can hear it the second I come out of the kitchen and approach the basement steps. It's much louder than my computer case with four 120mm fans in it. In fact I'm sitting right by my computer case right now and can hear the stock EOM crown fan in open air clear on the other side of the room - 20 feet away over the computer case with four 120 mm fans that is sitting 1 foot away. The Sunon fan is MUCH louder than the stock fan. At any rate, digikey offered to let me return it and get a full refund (minus my cost of shipping both ways) which is fair enough. I'll take them up on it.

I'm toying with the idea of cutting out the metal grill pattern on the back of the amp chasis by just hitting the eight most outside steel chasis grill points with a dremel blade - so then the back would just have an open circle. At that point I'd mount the fan and put a computer fan grill like this on to cover the fan. (which doesn't noticably increase noise as compared to turning the fan to the steel chasis grill.)


The upside is more airflow than stock setup and less noise - stock fan might even be tolerable when in equipment rack in this manner...
The downside is warranty through crown probably competely goes out the window (if it hasn't already through the fan mod.)

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post #28 of 35 Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Archaea - Do you have any means to build a shelf into the wall or make some type of cabinet to hide the amp? It seems doing so may be easier than trying to quiet it down / cause issues. I've moved mine into the adjacent room and it's inaudible from the listening area now. Just need to rig up a relay to power it up/down automatically.
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post #29 of 35 Old 02-03-2012, 09:31 PM
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I can't really place the amp out of my room unfortunately, and I don't know how you could make a hush box that's really hushed for an amp and still get airflow - at least not with this stock loud fan. I wish I could do what you guys suggest and put it out of the room, but I don't see a way unless I run a 40 foot RCA signal cable which would likely pick up noise and end up being a frustration...

I did the dirty deed last night and cut the steel chasis grill out

- so much for warranty. I'm committed now. I've got a nice big clean cutout circle in the back of the chasis....

I thought this mod alone might make the stock fan tolerable.

It didn't. The main problem wasn't apparently the steel chasis grill, but rather the heatsink on the other side - or perhaps both, but cutting out the grill made very little if any difference because the noise is now very much from the heatsink budded up to the intake side of the fan.

I got an RMA on the previous Sunon fan and am now stepping down to this Sunon fan. It is only 25mm wide instead of 38mm wide. I know I faulted that guy on CHT for ordering a 25mm fan in the JTR thread, but after a lot more comparisons this 25mm fan has better stats than the equivalently db level 38mm wide fans. I sure hope the stats are somewhat accurate, but my last bout with the 37dB fan that measured 79dB has shaken my confidence a bit. I've still had a pretty positive experience with Sunon fans overall -so I'm just going to ignore my last fan experience. Anyway I think 25mm may be okay after really analysing the internals of this amp. the 38mm is RIGHT up against that big heat sink and the same OEM fan that moves a lot of air outside the case, just makes a lot of noise inside the case and moves very little air. (Even less with the big steel chasis grill in place that I cut out). I'm not sure why it was engineered the way it was. I can still leave the little white plastic chasis piece in place and use a 25mm fan which won't bud up right next to the heatsink. That little bit of room and the cut out circle on the back just might allow the 25mm fan to move more air than the stock 38mm and it will SURELY (crosses fingers) be quieter. I also am consoling myself with the reading I've been doing in the manual about all the protect from thermal damage engineering that is supposedly in place on this amp. If it gets too hot (>90c) it just shuts down. Supposedly it won't grenade like my EP4000 did with too little of a fan.

Anyway here's the fan I just ordered. 34dB - autorestart, 70*C operating temp, .16 static inches H20, 75cfm
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...777&DPU=submit


Edit - After I ordered that fan I just saw page 25 of the manual says a fan is required with 80CFM rating - so this is right on the bleeding edge.

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post #30 of 35 Old 02-09-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Just curious where did you get the relay that handles 20amps? Most I found are limited to 15, bah.

I'm just using a 15amp one. I'm running this at 8ohms x 2 channels, so it will only be putting out half of it's rated power at the most. No need for a 20amp fuse.
Besides, most relays/fuses can handle quick large peaks without tripping. It's not something I'd sweat, if I were you.
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