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-   -   Selecting budget AV Receiver (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1381082-selecting-budget-av-receiver.html)

sofa_king_great 12-19-2011 07:59 PM

Hello All,

I'm looking for some help selecting an AV receiver. I am a noobie to Home Theater systems. I've done a bunch of research on the internet, and have decided to try to assemble my own budget setup instead of buying a HTIB setup.

Based on reviews I have decided on the Energy Classic 5.1 speakers.

Now I need help selecting an AV receiver. Right now I'm eyeing the Pioneer Pioneer 1020-k and the Elite VSX-40. Any recommendations between the two? Trying to keep costs below $350.

Thank you for your help.

ten8yp 12-20-2011 12:09 AM

I think you might have more luck if you help us understand a few more of your needs... just a little helpful info before opinions and suggestions are given if you will. For instance:

Budget: $350 or less - got that part

Channels: 2.1, 3.1, 5.1/2, 7.1/2, 9.1/2?

Wattage: Are you JUST powering the Energy fronts or are you planning on adding a center, sub(s), surrounds, etc. The more you have and the sizes will determine the more/less wattage you need. I'm guessing you will want to try to get 100 watts per channel. 200 for 2.1, 300 for 3.1, 500 for 5.1... etc.

You say Home Theater so I'm assuming it will need to have video AND audio input(s)/output(s)...

How many tv's are you going to be using? 1 output or multiple?

Inputs: How many devices (Cable/Satellite, DVD/Blu-Ray, CD player/Vinyl, VHS, Cassette, gaming system(s) , computer(s), etc) are you planning on using with it?

Input Type: Based on those devices, what types of connections will the receiver need to have to accommodate your needs? HDMI(s), digital optical, digital coax, coax, phono, and ofcourse then there's PRE-outs for external amps.

Features:
Zones? Multiple rooms or just one?
On Screen Display?
Audio setup devices such as the Audessey microphone?
Built in crossover or will you be adding an external?
Will you be needing 3D compatibility?

sofa_king_great 12-20-2011 02:28 AM

ten8yp,

Thanks for replying and thanks for the feedback. I will try to provide more information in this reply.

1. Channels: 5.1 or 7.1. At the moment, I am just planning on hooking up the Energy 5.1 home theater speaker set. I doubt I would be adding the extra two speakers for at least a couple of years. In your opinion is it worth it to have the 7.1 capability?

2. The Energy 5.1 setup I plan to purchase is a complete 5.1 set (see hyperlink below). I know nothing about recommended wattages, but based on your 100 watt rule of thumb, that would leave me at 500 watts?

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic.../dp/B001202C44

3. Yes, I believe it will need BOTH video and audio inputs/outputs. I plan to hook up my ps3, laptop (via hdmi), TV, Ipod/Ipad, apple TV, and maybe a CD player/radio (I have not purchased it yet). For now, my TV setup would be coaxial into the TV, then connect back to the receiver for sound.

a. Inputs needed: 4 HDMI, plus (whatever connection is used to connect sound back to the TV to the AVR?), and (whatever connection is used for a new cd/radio system to the AVR).

b. Setup would be only for one TV.

4. Zones: For now just 1 zone will be needed. In 2 years, when I move apartments, I could see wanting being able to utilize speakers in another room for music. Based on the life-span of an AVR, not sure how much that should be used factored in.

5. Onscreen Display: I have no experience with AVR's, so I have no idea how useful it is. Assuming I am a noob (but one who could read a manual...) what's your recommendation for this feature?

6. Audio setup: Since I am so new, I would prefer something that is easy to get the sound calibrated properly. If there are standard sound settings for each model (that I could find here at AVS forum) then maybe that feature is not necessary. Thoughts?

7. Crossover: I'm not that sure what it is (took a quick google hit at the term), but I am assuming no, based on the speaker set I plan to buy.

8. 3D compatibility: A nice to have, but not necessary.


Sorry, that post got long. Please let me know if you need any more information. I really appreciate people taking the time to help a noobie like me out.

Thanks.

bladerunner6 12-20-2011 02:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofa_king_great View Post

ten8yp,

Thanks for replying and thanks for the feedback. I will try to provide more information in this reply.

1. Channels: 5.1 or 7.1. At the moment, I am just planning on hooking up the Energy 5.1 home theater speaker set. I doubt I would be adding the extra two speakers for at least a couple of years. In your opinion is it worth it to have the 7.1 capability?

2. The Energy 5.1 setup I plan to purchase is a complete 5.1 set (see hyperlink below). I know nothing about recommended wattages, but based on your 100 watt rule of thumb, that would leave me at 500 watts?

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic.../dp/B001202C44

3. Yes, I believe it will need BOTH video and audio inputs/outputs. I plan to hook up my ps3, laptop (via hdmi), TV, Ipod/Ipad, apple TV, and maybe a CD player/radio (I have not purchased it yet). For now, my TV setup would be coaxial into the TV, then connect back to the receiver for sound.

a. Inputs needed: 4 HDMI, plus (whatever connection is used to connect sound back to the TV to the AVR?), and (whatever connection is used for a new cd/radio system to the AVR).

b. Setup would be only for one TV.

4. Zones: For now just 1 zone will be needed. In 2 years, when I move apartments, I could see wanting being able to utilize speakers in another room for music. Based on the life-span of an AVR, not sure how much that should be used factored in.

5. Onscreen Display: I have no experience with AVR's, so I have no idea how useful it is. Assuming I am a noob (but one who could read a manual...) what's your recommendation for this feature?

6. Audio setup: Since I am so new, I would prefer something that is easy to get the sound calibrated properly. If there are standard sound settings for each model (that I could find here at AVS forum) then maybe that feature is not necessary. Thoughts?

7. Crossover: I'm not that sure what it is (took a quick google hit at the term), but I am assuming no, based on the speaker set I plan to buy.

8. 3D compatibility: A nice to have, but not necessary.


Sorry, that post got long. Please let me know if you need any more information. I really appreciate people taking the time to help a noobie like me out.

Thanks.

If you have $350 to spend on the AVR and are planning on $400 for a Take 5, that means a total budget of $750. I think you budget is too receiver oriented. The general practice is to spend more on the speakers and sub since that is what you actually hear.

I would buy some Polks/Pioneer/Jamos, an BIC F12 and something like the Onkyo 509.(Or any number of other units open boxed, on sale, clearanced, etc).

The Pioneer/509/F12 would actually be significantly less than your current budget.

BTW, how big is your room and what do you listen to?

Thanks.

ten8yp 12-20-2011 04:02 AM

Sofa - I think I understand a little more where you're at...

You say you are going to run coax to your tv? Its an older tv right... not lcd, plasma, or dlp? Do you mean coaxial speaker wires or cable coax? You gotta get DVR man... or DirectTV... I dont remember the last time I watched a commercial. Its GREAT. lol

The following paragraphs go into decent detail about what I would do if I was you. If you dont care (or just dont feel like reading it) you can skip to the bottom where I went straight to receiver recommendations.

The Energy Classic Take 5.1 - retails for $399.99 - In my opinion you can get a better speaker setup for $400 but I am new to this forum and have some differing opinions on products from some guys on AVSForum. PM me if you want my opinion on speakers.

Do you really need 7.1 to run the Energy system you are talking about? Definitely not. Typically people who have 7.1 or 7.2 systems and only run them in 5.1 mode run the front speakers bi-amped in order to put more power to the two front speakers. Most of the large speaker towers like the Energy CF line (30, 50, 70, etc.) come with the ability to do that built into (actually ONTO the speaker wire input on the outside.) The speakers in the Energy Classic Take 5.1 setup wont take bi-amping without modifying the speakers themselves which would be WAY out of your league (and mine too for that matter.) Personally I find the center channel in the Energy take 5.1 very lacking BUT for $750 if you pair the Energies with a nice $300-$350 receiver you will have a pretty nice setup.

As far as the last guy to say something about spending too much on a receiver $350 vs. spending $400 on the speakers. I also disagree with that. I think thats a pretty good split. When it all comes down to it speakers are speakers. They make sound. Your sound is only going to get as good as your weakest link be it the speakers or the receiver or the output device. I would NOT go lower than $300 for the receiver as the ones you get for that price have very few features and limited options that you might want down the road (particularly if you plan on upgrading your tv.) The one thing I DO agree with him on is that for around $250-$350 (on sale in some places) the Onkyo TX-NR509 and NR609 are great receivers that would NOT disappoint. I hate that you bought that S3300 HTIB setup which was a joke and so ruined your taste for Onkyo. I, personally wont suggest Yamaha of whom I have had nothing but issues with. That leaves Sony, which I dont like either, Pioneer, and Denon in your price range.

Based on what you are telling me my receiver suggestions are as follows:

Denon AVR-591 5.1 Channel
Denon AVR-1611 7.1 Channel
Pioneer Elite VSX-30 7.1 Channel
Pioneer VSX-921K 7.1 Channel

Personally I am interested in hearing the guys on this board compare and contrast the $300-$600 receivers as I am in the market for 1, maybe even two receivers in that bracket and I've never owned a Denon or a Pioneer. I'm considering the 4 above as well as:

Onkyo:
NR609 & NR709

Pioneer:
Elite VSX-40
Elite VSX-50
Elite VSX-31
VXS-1021
VSX-1121

Denon:
AVR-591
AVR-791
AVR-1312
AVR-1611
AVR-1612
AVR-1712
AVR-1911
AVR-1912
AVR-891
AVR-2112CI

Marantz:
Marantz SR5005
Are there any other Marantz receivers in the $300-$600 range? Are they worth the extra money?

sofa_king_great 12-20-2011 03:54 PM

ten8yp and bladerunner6,

Thanks for the feedback.

I plan to use the speakers for TV/movies and equally to use for music for the room. I've never owned a HT, and am used to listening to TV stock speakers.

1. I am hooking in to a Panasonic 55" TC PST30-55 TV. Limited to coaxial cable since I am living oversees for a few years. Will have DVR/cable box etc when I get home.

2. Speakers: After reading all the reviews of the Energy Take 5.1 (cnet, etc.), I was set on those. But now I'm second guessing. I did a quick search on the forum and saw recommendations (see below) to buy speakers separately instead of the Energy Take 5.1. Polk Monitor 30 and CS1 center. Plus a sub.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1376171

Is that in line with what the two of you were thinking? More bang for the $400 on speakers?

Will I need to adjust receiver based on this new speaker setup? If not, I will start to look at the receivers you two recommended.

Is it OK sound-wise to leave the front 3 speakers sitting on my TV stand? (Or do they have to be mounted? )

Besides HDMI, what other wires/cords would I need to hook up the speakers/tv? (Standard speaker wires? cord from tv to AVR?) That way I can order them at the same time I do the speakers =).


Thanks for the help.

bladerunner6 12-20-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofa_king_great View Post

ten8yp and bladerunner6,

Thanks for the feedback.

I plan to use the speakers for TV/movies and equally to use for music for the room. I've never owned a HT, and am used to listening to TV stock speakers.

1. I am hooking in to a Panasonic 55" TC PST30-55 TV. Limited to coaxial cable since I am living oversees for a few years. Will have DVR/cable box etc when I get home.

2. Speakers: After reading all the reviews of the Energy Take 5.1 (cnet, etc.), I was set on those. But now I'm second guessing. I did a quick search on the forum and saw recommendations (see below) to buy speakers separately instead of the Energy Take 5.1. Polk Monitor 30 and CS1 center. Plus a sub.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1376171

Is that in line with what the two of you were thinking? More bang for the $400 on speakers?

Will I need to adjust receiver based on this new speaker setup? If not, I will start to look at the receivers you two recommended.

Is it OK sound-wise to leave the front 3 speakers sitting on my TV stand? (Or do they have to be mounted? )

Besides HDMI, what other wires/cords would I need to hook up the speakers/tv? (Standard speaker wires? cord from tv to AVR?) That way I can order them at the same time I do the speakers =).


Thanks for the help.

Before we go much further, how big is your room and what will you be listening to and how much?

ten8yp 12-20-2011 08:10 PM

sofa - Yes, I think buying a speaker setup individually vs in a package deal might be a better bet for you. Often times you can find specials where you get a free sub or center channel if you buy front speakers. I know polk offers a free sub if you spend $500 on any speakers but that might be more than you want to spend.

I would not suggest the Monitor 30's. They would be ok for rears but probably would not produce the desired effect as your fronts.

Unless the room is gigantic or EXTREMELY small the size really doesn't matter for the receiver recommendation. The speakers however would be affected.

sofa_king_great 12-20-2011 09:32 PM

TV Room is approximately 20x15. It'd be nice if music could also carry over to the adjacent dining room area. My speakers in my TV can produce enough sound to reach the area, so I'm assuming these speakers shouldn't have a problem with that.

I'd expect to be using the system daily for watching television, listening to music (via CD, Ipod, apple TV), and laptop (via HDMI).

Less frequent usage would be for blu-ray movies and PS-3 games.

So should my front speakers be standing speakers? Or do they just need to be larger than those monitor 30's?

ten8yp 12-20-2011 09:51 PM

I would think Monitor 40's would do the job if you are really wanting bookshelves. You will love 'em. I have Monitor 70's as my fronts and 40's as rears and they ROCK. 70's Cost around $400 new although I didn't pay that much for mine. (They can be found for less if you are patient and hunt hard)

Polk Monitor 50's (floorstanding) are around $200 for a pair vs Polk 40's ((bookshelves or would need stands) are $150 plus shipping on newegg.com for a pair so the upgrade is worth it if you ask me.

ten8yp 12-21-2011 04:51 AM

Hey sofa... I did some research for you last night and since you are considering buying a seperate speaker set why dont you take a look at THESE:

Polk Audio TL1600 - $400
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL1...470735&sr=8-74

Then there are some Jamo sets that all look really nice and would leave you plenty of money to buy a receiver if you can deal with the colors...

Jamo S426HCS3 - $235
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S426HCS3-...470735&sr=8-79

Jamo S426HCS3 5pcs Home Theater Speaker System - $294
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S426HCS3-...pd_sim_sbs_e_1

Jamo S606HCS3 S-606-HCS-3 5.0 speaker system - $400
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S606HCS3-...pd_sim_sbs_e_3

This set comes with built in EDIT: WOOFER in the fronts so you wouldn't need to buy a sub until later if you wanted more bass!

ANV AV-152B Powered 5.1 Speaker Setup
http://www.amazon.com/AV-152B-Powere...d_sim_sbs_e_52

I HONESTLY think any of these would sound better than that Energy Classic Take 5.1 Setup.

bladerunner6 12-21-2011 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofa_king_great View Post

TV Room is approximately 20x15. It'd be nice if music could also carry over to the adjacent dining room area. My speakers in my TV can produce enough sound to reach the area, so I'm assuming these speakers shouldn't have a problem with that.

I'd expect to be using the system daily for watching television, listening to music (via CD, Ipod, apple TV), and laptop (via HDMI).

Less frequent usage would be for blu-ray movies and PS-3 games.

So should my front speakers be standing speakers? Or do they just need to be larger than those monitor 30's?

I think in a room your size, floor standers would be a good idea.

Newegg has the Polk Monitor60 on sale for $100 or so pretty frequently. A CS1 which they are out of stock on but should be getting more of is $80. (They do have the open box cherry of the CS1 for $46. If you are okay with cherry I would jump on that!) A pair of Monitor30 would be fine surround speakers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=Polk%20Audio
Add an BIC F12 sub and a receiver like the Onkyo 509 or the Pioneer 821 like this:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...-Cat80&topnav=

or some open box deal

And you will be set with a vastly better system than the Take 5. Something like this will definitely handle your room far better.

Yes, I know this is slightly over your budget but it really is worth it.

There are other systems out there, this is by no means the only one, but I think this would probably be a good fit for your and your budget.

N8DOGG 12-21-2011 05:07 PM

I personally would take anything over any of those polks listed blah!!!
The jamos's IMO are a much nicer sounding speaker.

As for receiver, to be honest it's not going to make much difference at your listed price, they will all be pretty similar in features, build quality etc.

ten8yp 12-21-2011 06:33 PM

You think the Jamos sound better than Monitor 60's, 30's and CS2? Or the TL1600 setup?

I would agree about it being better than the TL1600 but not the other setups. The only real reason I suggested the TL1600 is because I wasn't entirely sure that he didn't want a smaller setup. The Energy Classic Take 5.1 is a smaller setup vs. the Jamos or the Polk Monitors can get rather bulky in comparison.

mcsoul 12-21-2011 07:19 PM

When looking at raw drivers, jamo is the worst of the worst cheapo crud driver manufacturer right next to goldwood. Not sure that is any indication of their assembled speakers, but I would not risk it.

afrogt 12-21-2011 08:09 PM

The TL1600 setup only uses 2.5" drivers. I don't see how that would be any better than the Energy Take Classics.

I'd go for the Jamo S606 package myself, but then again I'm a Jamo fan.

afrogt 12-21-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ten8yp View Post

Hey sofa... I did some research for you last night and since you are considering buying a seperate speaker set why dont you take a look at THESE:

Polk Audio TL1600 - $400
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL1...470735&sr=8-74

Then there are some Jamo sets that all look really nice and would leave you plenty of money to buy a receiver if you can deal with the colors...

Jamo S426HCS3 - $235
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S426HCS3-...470735&sr=8-79

Jamo S426HCS3 5pcs Home Theater Speaker System - $294
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S426HCS3-...pd_sim_sbs_e_1

Jamo S606HCS3 S-606-HCS-3 5.0 speaker system - $400
http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-S606HCS3-...pd_sim_sbs_e_3

This set comes with built in subs in the fronts so you wouldn't need to buy an external one until later if you wanted more bass!

ANV AV-152B Powered 5.1 Speaker Setup
http://www.amazon.com/AV-152B-Powere...d_sim_sbs_e_52

I HONESTLY think any of these would sound better than that Energy Classic Take 5.1 Setup.

Your info is a litte misleading. The s606 does not come with built in subs. They are 8" woofers, not subwoofers. Big difference. They do not play as low as a subwoofer.

I'd recommend he eventually get a 10-12" subwoofer later when he has more money. Or take advantage of this deal now if he has the cash. A very good sub for a nice price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269026

I've heard the Jamo s426 and they're okay, nothing special. I think the Polk Monitor 60's are actually better than the low end Jamo S426. I'd still take the S606 over the Polk M60, CS2 and M30 system though because I think the Jamo s606 towers are better than the Monitor 60.

ten8yp 12-21-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Your info is a litte misleading. The s606 does not come with built in subs. They are 8" woofers, not subwoofers. Big difference. They do not play as low as a subwoofer.

I'd recommend he eventually get a 10-12" subwoofer later when he has more money. Or take advantage of this deal now if he has the cash. A very good sub for a nice price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269026

I've heard the Jamo s426 and they're okay, nothing special. I think the Polk Monitor 60's are actually better than the low end Jamo S426. I'd still take the S606 over the Polk M60, CS2 and M30 system though because I think the Jamo s606 towers are better than the Monitor 60.

Ahhh... good point about the 8" woofer. I didn't mean sub. I edited my post but thanks for the correction.

Really? S606's over the Monitor 60's huh?...well there you go. I have Monitor 70's and a PSW110 which I think sound MUCH better than my father in laws Jamo s606's and an unidentified sub but maybe I'm partial. And maybe the 70's are just that much better than the 60's. The S606 setup might be a little out of his budget though considering that its $265 more. I still think $235 is a KILLER price for the s426 setup though especially when comparing to the Energy setup and would most likely be a great fit for a starter setup for the original poster. Dont you think?

jswheeler 12-23-2011 12:25 PM

Are any of you guys using a "smart TV/internet tv" that allows you to access online content like Amazon video on demand/skype/netflix?

And if so how are you returning the sound from the tv? ARC with an hdmi or with a regular cable?

I'm looking for a new receiver that has ARC.

Can you recommend a receiver other than the Onkyo 609?

N8DOGG 12-23-2011 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ten8yp View Post

You think the Jamos sound better than Monitor 60's, 30's and CS2? Or the TL1600 setup?

I would agree about it being better than the TL1600 but not the other setups. The only real reason I suggested the TL1600 is because I wasn't entirely sure that he didn't want a smaller setup. The Energy Classic Take 5.1 is a smaller setup vs. the Jamos or the Polk Monitors can get rather bulky in comparison.

I'm just not a fan of the polk sound. But like you said the TL1600 is not very good sounding IMO. I'd have to hear the 60's, 30's side by side with the jamos to make an honest opinion which i like better but I've never done that.
Speakers are pretty subjective, the OP's best bet it go try out a few different sets and see what he likes best. Our opinions are just that, what I may like, he may hate lol

jdsmoothie 12-23-2011 12:46 PM

jswheeler -

All current model Denon AVRs (except the 1312) provide the ARC feature. Review post #2 in the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig for a comparison of the various models available. Also review post #3 in that same thread for tips on purchasing.

ten8yp 12-24-2011 01:52 AM

jswheeler - all of the current model Pioneer (non-Elite) AVR's also offer ARC -
VSX - 521k, 821K, 921K, 1021K, and 1121K

I've been trying to get a straight opinion on whether to go with one of these Pioneers or one of the Denons for quite some time now but no one seems to want to compare and contrast them for me. Smoothie is DEFINITELY the guy to ask about that though as he is VERY knowledgeable about the Denons. You may want to find his equal in the Pioneer department however NONE of the other receiver threads I have found are any where near as informative as the Denon one hosted by smoothie and batpig.

From what reviews I have read of them the Denon is going to have better sound from the use of the Audyssey MultiEQ XT setup mic vs. the MCACC that Pioneer uses. The Pioneers appear to have a slight video processing edge over the Denon though. I dont have any personal experience with either, however, I have been very pleased with the audio and video produced/passed through by my Onkyo which is an older model.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about anything but I'm attempting to make it my duty to become as knowledgeable as I can about the more budget (read sub $500) receivers and speaker setups so that I can answer just this type of question.

afrogt 12-24-2011 03:31 AM

Quote:


I still think $235 is a KILLER price for the s426 setup though especially when comparing to the Energy setup and would most likely be a great fit for a starter setup for the original poster. Dont you think?

Not really a great price to me, my local Fry's carries the Jamo s426 5.0 package for $149. It comes on sale for that price at least once a month.

ten8yp 12-24-2011 04:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Not really a great price to me, my local Fry's carries the Jamo s426 5.0 package for $149. It comes on sale for that price at least once a month.

Wow... I see that now that I checked their website. At any rate for $149 thats for sure the way to go over the Energy setup for $400.

The black is Out of Stock right now but they do have the other color. Here's the link:

http://www.frys.com/product/6680684?...dio%20Pod:Pod4

sofa_king_great 01-17-2012 05:03 AM

Just wanted to thank you all for your help and responses. Lots of good information to help out someone new to speakers/receivers.

The responses had me leaning towards putting together a polk monitor based system (I was sold on monitor 40's as fronts). But in the end the monitor 40 were too tall fit below my TV when mounted to its stand. On top of that shipping costs were too high for standing speakers from newegg (though they had by far the best prices).

In the end I went with the energy take 5.1, as they would fit nicely, and having never owned any real audio equipment before, they should sound nice to me for now. Depending on how things go, I may upgrade front and center speakers a few years down the road.

For the receiver I saw a good deal on a pioneer 1021-k and ended up ordering it.

Items have shipped, so I'm looking forward to setting it up. Just wanted to say thanks for the help to all who replied.

King_David 01-31-2012 07:17 PM

kj

allbaugh_04 01-31-2012 07:29 PM

Denon AVR 591


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