HQV Vida VHD1900 Processor - Is this a Game Changer??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 12-22-2011, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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So I know that the general advice is that the video processor inside the AVR should not be the feature upon which someone should base their purchase. This advice is primarily based on the fact that most modern HDTVs have their own video processors which are more adept at upscaling and deinterlacing than the processor that can be found in an AVR.

My question to all of you is about the HQV® Vida VHD1900 processor. Is this processor finally one that can be said to be a feature which separates it from other AVRs?

I was looking at the Onkyo 709 and the 809 and noticed that this processor is one of the major differences between the two. The price difference between the two receivers is approximately $150. Is this processor worth the price? For the record, I have a brand new Toshiba 55G310U. I watch a lot of Fios HD box and Netflix and I really love the PQ. However, if this processor even makes a minor, yet perceivable difference in PQ, than Im totally in for the $150 upgrade over the 709.

I was reading about the features of the processor as described by Onkyo:

"The sophisticated HQV® Vida VHD1900 processor enhances the quality of both standard-definition and high-def video sources. The chip employs multicadence tracking, expanded 12-bit color processing, and four-field motion-adaptive de-interlacing to optimize video quality and detail. Two new HQV technologies are at work here: Auto HQV® - which automatically enhances the incoming image, and HQV StreamClean cleans up compressed video in real time by eliminating mosquito and block noise from lower-quality sources such as online video sites."

After that, I went to the HQV website and saw some videos about the processor and the technology behind it. I gotta say that I am pretty impressed. But I dont know if I am just being suckered with the marketing.

I know this processor is in the Yamaha RX A2010 and RX A3010, as well as the higher Onkyo models and the Integra AVRs.

Does anyone have any opinions about this processor?
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post #2 of 33 Old 12-22-2011, 09:00 PM
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Packers could have used a game changer when they played the Chiefs. But I don't think the Vida would have helped

IMO, sounds like one of those things that's great on paper, but makes little to no difference in real life. Not that I have one or have seen one - I am just very skeptical of the need for video processors anymore, with HD sources being the norm.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 33 Old 12-22-2011, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, I am mostly interested if this processor can actually improve the PQ coming from my HD sources.

I mostly watch all channels in HD, stream from Netflix in HD etc.

Even a minor increase in PQ would be worth the investment.
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post #4 of 33 Old 12-22-2011, 10:45 PM
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Best of luck if you buy it...

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #5 of 33 Old 12-22-2011, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Best of luck if you buy it...

So you think its really just snake oil?
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post #6 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 12:49 AM
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It isn't snake oil in the sense of $150 HDMI cables. It generally depends on many things such as your source, display, viewing distance, how sensitive/fussy you are to video artefacts.

Most benefits are seen with SD but HD can benefit if say it is 720p to 1080p (scaling), or 1080i to p (de-interlacing) and other things like colour, brightness, contrast, noise reduction. Bear in mind these controls can be limited or absent in a receiver compared to a standalone VP.

Your comment of 'minor, yet perceivable difference in PQ' isn't specific to pinpoint exactly what you find to be the issue/fault with what you have. You say you 'love' the PQ so that doesn't sound like any issues. A 'difference' like increased sharpness or colour can just be more 'pop' to please your own preference but not necessarily more accurate to the original.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #7 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

. A 'difference' like increased sharpness or colour can just be more 'pop' to please your own preference but not necessarily more accurate to the original.

Hey, if this processor can give me that "pop" than it would be worth it in my opinion. Right now, I really do not have a problem with the PQ. It looks great coming from my Fios HD box. I previously had Cablevison, and I was awestruck with the difference in PQ - Cablesvisions HD was downright primitive compared to Fios.

In the last 2 months, Ive watched Avatar 35 times. I dont even really like the movie, but I love the way it looks on my HDTV. Put it this way, if this processor can de-interlace from 1080i to 1080p and clean it up with this StreamClean™ technology to the point that Avatar looks even better....oh god. This is what I live for (unfortunately).
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post #8 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatumguy View Post

Actually, I am mostly interested if this processor can actually improve the PQ coming from my HD sources.

I mostly watch all channels in HD, stream from Netflix in HD etc.

Even a minor increase in PQ would be worth the investment.

You have never streamed from Netflix in HD.
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post #9 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post


You have never streamed from Netflix in HD.

I have--why is it impossible for him to have done so?
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post #10 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 08:13 AM
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I would not go as far as calling it snake oil. But I have never seen a VP improve HD quality video. There's little to improve. I can only speak from my own experience.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #11 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I would not go as far as calling it snake oil. But I have never seen a VP improve HD quality video. There's little to improve. I can only speak from my own experience.

There is a convenience factor if the AVR allows for individual video settings per input--different sources, even HD, do not necessarily present the same calibration needs.
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post #12 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 08:22 AM
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I would say there is LOTS to improve in HD internet streamed video and HDTV, specifically compression artifacts resulting from the lower bitrate on HD internet streamed and potential cadence issues introduced by errors made by the cableco on 1080i tv.

How much better this processor does this vs. DNR or deinterlacing on another processor is another story. From what it sounds like, it attempts to gauge the amount of compression artifacts in a stream and then applies increasing DNR depending upon the amount/severity of compression artifacts detected rather than just a blanket or manual level.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #13 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatumguy View Post

In the last 2 months, Ive watched Avatar 35 times. I dont even really like the movie, but I love the way it looks on my . Put it this way, if this processor can de-interlace from 1080i to 1080p and clean it up with this StreamClean technology to the point that Avatar looks even better....oh god. This is what I live for (unfortunately).

As has been said tatumguy it comes down to the quality of the source to a great extent . A bit starved ota or cable signal can benefit from things like noise reduction;mosquito noise and macroblock reduction . These are available from standalone vp's and have better colour management controls than an integra say I just bought a dvdo duo for this important capability.. Can help with cih settups too.

Avatar and most other bd's dont need deinterlacing to output 1080p/24 to a display and have far fewer artifacts and much better bitrates. The bitrate isnt shrunk to fit in more channels on the satellite transponder for instance.

Down here the moment a few mbps was taken from some [mpeg2] 1080i hd channels for some new channels it was obvious in the picture quality . I shrink my m2ts bluray files to 1/2 the size and I cant really pick the difference..
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post #14 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cwt View Post

As has been said tatumguy it comes down to the quality of the source to a great extent . A bit starved ota or cable signal can benefit from things like noise reduction;mosquito noise and macroblock reduction .

Thank you. I very much apprecaite the responses. So it sounds like there really isnt a noticeable improvement in PQ from HD sources, so long as there is a sufficient bit stream for Netflix and adequate signal strength coming from the cable box. So, given that I have a pretty good stream coming from my Fios, it doesnt seem like this will help too much. If I still had my Cablevision box and Internet (which is always seemed bit starved and/or just crappy in general), then this processor might provide noticebale results.
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post #15 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 12:02 PM
 
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hello, noob on the boards, but a dedicated lurker for many months....

Ive actually been wondering the same thing about whether to go with an Onkyo 709 or 809, and whether its worth spending the extra $s on it.

709 has Marvell Qdeo and it says 809 has both the Marvell Qdeo for upscalling to 4k and the HQV® Vida VHD1900 to do all the other video processing.

So, in the 709, is it just the Marvell Qdeo that does everything? Its all pretty confusing to me.....
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post #16 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 03:33 PM
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It is the best video processing I have seen to date in a Receiver or pre-pro... Kudos to the Vida 1900 chip.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
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post #17 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 04:01 PM
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It's a great chip but I have no idea how well Onkyo implements it. They did a HORRIBLE job implementing the Reon chip years ago...

Pierce: Yes, the Qdeo does everything in the 709. It can deinterlace... it's just not as advanced a product as Vida.

Personally, I believe very much in video processing. Most HD sources are too highly compressed unless you watch Blu-ray only. And I still watch a lot of stuff that isn't HD.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #18 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 04:14 PM
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I haven't seen the Vida in action but I'm sceptical about DNR. It's not very effective in the DVDO Edge/Duo and my Kuro plasma has more aggressive DNR which at the highest settings results in waxy faces. It sounds too good to be true that a VP in an AVR can do much. But for $150 difference and a return policy I'd get one and see for myself.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #19 of 33 Old 12-23-2011, 04:40 PM
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ABT is much worse than HQV and VXP for DNR.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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post #20 of 33 Old 12-24-2011, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

Personally, I believe very much in video processing. Most HD sources are too highly compressed unless you watch Blu-ray only. And I still watch a lot of stuff that isn't HD.

Thanks Donoman. Now I feel like its worth the $150 to get the Onkyo 809, in order to get this chip. Even though that goes against conventional wisdom, I really am deciding my new AVR purchase on the quality of the video chip.
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post #21 of 33 Old 11-26-2012, 02:04 AM
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So, more user opinions about this video processor? I'm don't watch almost any SD content anymore, so does this make any sense in HD content? Can it do the same miracle as darbee? Or can it do 3D frame interpolation which is missing in the new epson 5020?
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post #22 of 33 Old 02-22-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatumguy View Post

So I know that the general advice is that the video processor inside the AVR should not be the feature upon which someone should base their purchase. This advice is primarily based on the fact that most modern HDTVs have their own video processors which are more adept at upscaling and deinterlacing than the processor that can be found in an AVR.

My question to all of you is about the HQV® Vida VHD1900 processor. Is this processor finally one that can be said to be a feature which separates it from other AVRs?


I was looking at the Onkyo 709 and the 809 and noticed that this processor is one of the major differences between the two. The price difference between the two receivers is approximately $150. Is this processor worth the price? For the record, I have a brand new Toshiba 55G310U. I watch a lot of Fios HD box and Netflix and I really love the PQ. However, if this processor even makes a minor, yet perceivable difference in PQ, than Im totally in for the $150 upgrade over the 709.


I was reading about the features of the processor as described by Onkyo:


"The sophisticated HQV® Vida VHD1900 processor enhances the quality of both standard-definition and high-def video sources. The chip employs multicadence tracking, expanded 12-bit color processing, and four-field motion-adaptive de-interlacing to optimize video quality and detail. Two new HQV technologies are at work here: Auto HQV® - which automatically enhances the incoming image, and HQV StreamClean cleans up compressed video in real time by eliminating mosquito and block noise from lower-quality sources such as online video sites."


After that, I went to the HQV website and saw some videos about the processor and the technology behind it. I gotta say that I am pretty impressed. But I dont know if I am just being suckered with the marketing.


I know this processor is in the Yamaha RX A2010 and RX A3010, as well as the higher Onkyo models and the Integra AVRs.


Does anyone have any opinions about this processor?
I A/B the HQV® Vida VHD1900 against the Marvell QDEO Chipset and to make it simple the HQV beat the QDEO and made the pic great on standard and hi def video I didnt think I would notice a big diff using an Elite Pro-530HDI and Mitsu WD-65831 but I was amazed for the AVR I used the Yamaha RX-A3020 and got a wonderful deal from Sound Advice's VP Dan Jeancola SA was the best company around for an experince and the tweeter bought them ran them into the ground with all the AV companies they aquired but the original owner of Sound Advice bought it back and all the good ol alumni is returning they have a website and they are #1 when it comes to customer service so I don't care where I live I will always order my products from them, heck I get it faster and I get better customer service than anywhere else and customer service is everything to me smile.gif

I A/B the HQV® Vida VHD1900 against the Marvell QDEO Chip-set and to make it simple the HQV beat the QDEO and made the pic great on standard and hi def video I didn't think I would notice a big diff using an Elite Pro-530HDI and Mitsu WD-65831 but I was amazed, for the AVR I used the Yamaha RX-A3020 and got a wonderful deal from Sound Advice's VP Dan Jeancola SA was the best company around for an experience and the tweeter bought them ran them into the ground with all the AV companies they acquired but the original owner of Sound Advice bought it back and all the good ol alumni is returning they have a website and they are #1 when it comes to customer service and CI so I don't care where I live I will always order my products from them, heck I get it faster and I get better customer service than anywhere else and customer service is everything to me smile.gif
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post #23 of 33 Old 03-24-2013, 04:04 AM
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hello,

i'm new on the amplifier world and i'm searching for a good one that have this things:

*normal/decent 5.1 or 5.2
*2 stereo channels for 2 different rooms
*and most of all, a really good video processor for bump my video up (connected trough ethernet port to my nas)

reading here and there i found that the onkio will be the one i am looking for tnx to his Qdeo™ technology from Marvell..

now it comes out with the TX- N818 that have the Qdeo one + HQV® Vida™ VHD1900 + ISF Video Calibration.
it seems to be the right one but suddenly i found a big difference:

TX-NR7*1*7
Quote:
The TX-NR717 offers full 4K (4096 x 2160) upscaling of standard video sources such as 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p. Interlaced-to-progressive conversion and scaling are performed by Qdeo video processing technology from Marvell. Qdeo uses algorithms to erase video noise and artifacts such as jaggies and feathering. Played back on a compatible wide-screen display, your Blu-ray Discs and DVDs will look more detailed and cinematic than ever.

TX-NR7*2*7
Quote:
The TX-NR727 uses Qdeo™ technology from Marvell to upscale standard video sources to brilliantly smooth 1080p (for regular HDTVs) and to an incredible 4K on compatible displays.

TX-NR8*1*8
HQV® Vida™ VHD1900
Quote:
The Vida VHD1900 upscales analog content to 1080p, and enhances native high-definition sources. The chip employs multi-cadence tracking, expanded 12-bit color processing, and four-field motion-adaptive de-interlacing. Auto HQV™ enhances the incoming image, while HQV StreamClean™ cleans up video from lower-quality online sources by eliminating mosquito and block noise.

Marvell Qdeo™ Technology
Quote:
Qdeo technology upscales 1080p sources to 4K (4096 x 2160)—even content already upscaled from lower resolutions by the HQV Vida processor. Played back on a compatible 4K display, your high-definition content will look more cinematic than ever.

the point is:
if i stream trough nas a "poor" video file starting from 624x352 up to 1280x720 (and rarely a DVD9 or a Blueray) which one of these amplifiers - or better which one sof these chips - will do the best works?

tnx everyone who will helps smile.gif
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post #24 of 33 Old 03-24-2013, 07:32 AM
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I wonder how these things compare to something like a DVDO EDGE?
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post #25 of 33 Old 03-24-2013, 06:53 PM
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The ABT chip (as found in the Edge or previous Denon AVRs and Oppo players) doesn't do 4k upscaling and is somewhat dated and generally no longer considered the best.

A standalone vp has many more options and controls than a vp chip inside the receiver, it's not just about 'scaling' and 'de-interlacing'. Things like setting frame lock, output colour bit and space, underscan are something never found in AVRs.

I have the Edge and the Onkyo 818. I can use both or either. I think the HQV wins on SD upscaling but it's not night and day. If I can only keep one vp option I'd use the Edge for the above reason. I was the first person here to demonstrate the '24p bug' output from the Onkyo using the Edge's info display.

This brings me to an important point, that it's the implementation of the chip that really matters. Before the 24p bug was corrected (it took many months for Onkyo to even acknowledge its presence) it cannot be used however good the scaling is.

It seems the Marvell has found many followers (it's also used in the Pioneer players/AVRs and Oppo players), but it's not available as a standalone. The best vp choice is subjective but the most hardcore users have the Lumagen vps.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #26 of 33 Old 03-24-2013, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The ABT chip (as found in the Edge or previous Denon AVRs and Oppo players) doesn't do 4k upscaling and is somewhat dated and generally no longer considered the best.

A standalone vp has many more options and controls than a vp chip inside the receiver, it's not just about 'scaling' and 'de-interlacing'. Things like setting frame lock, output colour bit and space, underscan are something never found in AVRs.

I have the Edge and the Onkyo 818. I can use both or either. I think the HQV wins on SD upscaling but it's not night and day. If I can only keep one vp option I'd use the Edge for the above reason. I was the first person here to demonstrate the '24p bug' output from the Onkyo using the Edge's info display.

This brings me to an important point, that it's the implementation of the chip that really matters. Before the 24p bug was corrected (it took many months for Onkyo to even acknowledge its presence) it cannot be used however good the scaling is.

It seems the Marvell has found many followers (it's also used in the Pioneer players/AVRs and Oppo players), but it's not available as a standalone. The best vp choice is subjective but the most hardcore users have the Lumagen vps.

So for most higher-end users, they should just go with what's in the AVR? Why do some of the lower end AVR units do 4k upscaling, and yet they aren't set up to to 480p component to 1080p HDMI?
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post #27 of 33 Old 03-24-2013, 07:45 PM
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Q1: Not necessarily, it's a personal choice. Many feel what's inside the AVR is good enough. I prefer a standalone.

Q2: I haven't researched that much in lower AVRs, but apart from cost savings (most low-end AVRs do away with analogue inputs altogether), can't think of another good reason. The 4k is more marketing than anything - in practice if you buy a 4k display would you buy a budget AVR?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #28 of 33 Old 03-25-2013, 02:51 PM
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tnx for answering smile.gif

question 1:
in my case so u will suggest something like buying an AVR without considering the video processor inside but only the audio side + buy a dedicated videoplayer?

for streaming the nas content trough ethernet then how it works?
i send the file to the AVR and it will manage the audio section then he send the video part to the VP and it will manage the rest (and ofc they will work togheter for the best result)?

question 2:
i dont get if the Onkyo 818 will do a good upscaling starting from "poor" video files - using the eyes of the not experienced people-.
so the question is can u put it down a little more simple for me please? cause i'm kinda new tongue.gif

if u have to judge form 1 to 10 the upscaling of a 624x352 video file to 1080p and u have to give two marks, one for the video "V" and one for the audio "A" which vote will u give respectively to First- NR717, Second- NR727, Third- NR818, Fourth a dedicated video player ?

i know the question is an hard one. and i will ensure u is not tricky at all. u dont have to be an owner of all of them. but it seems u know a lot of things more than me and i'm not english motherlanguage, and again, i'm a noob in this sector.. is just for make me understand it easy without misunderstanding.

tnx again for ur future replies guys!
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post #29 of 33 Old 03-25-2013, 03:44 PM
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It sounds like AVRs will be taking over dedicated video processors...

The 4k is more for futureproofing, even though it's not realistic to use that in the near future. I've never seen one without analog, it's just that most switch component to component, and composite to composite, creating a lot of switching at the TV level, whereas the DVDO EDGE and higher end AVRs switch and upconvert everything to a single cable HDMI.
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post #30 of 33 Old 03-25-2013, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melting Blaze View Post

for streaming the nas content trough ethernet then how it works?
i send the file to the AVR and it will manage the audio section then he send the video part to the VP and it will manage the rest (and ofc they will work togheter for the best result)?

The Onkyo AVRs do not stream video files, only audio.

If you're going to play odd resolution files like 624x352, the source will have to at least convert it to one of the standard video resolutions like 480p to be sent via HDMI.

Questions about upscaling downloaded files (and SD DVDs, TV) come up in the vp forum. The general feeling is there is so much that can be done and it can be made HD.
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

It sounds like AVRs will be taking over dedicated video processors...

The 4k is more for futureproofing...

Dedicated vps have always been for the niche market.

The 4k in current AVRs is only for 24p, not really futureproof when it's likely to be other 4k formats and HDMI 2.0.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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