In a little dilemma choosing between a Pioneer and Denon receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all, I am brand new to audio and this site and I am in a little bit of a dilemma in choosing an AV Receiver.

I recently went to Magnolia home theater inside of Best Buy to check out some receivers. I went in there with the intention of comparing the Onkyo TX-NR709 and the Denon AVR-2112ci, I didn't care for the Onkyo, my favorite was the Denon. Then the representative showed me the Pioneer VSX-50 and I liked that more than the Denon.

However I have decided on the Denon because of the equalization (proper term?), since I live in an apartment with thin walls if I am watching a movie with dialogue, then if there's an explosion it won't get too loud for my neighbors. At Magnolia home theater, the representative said the Pioneer doesn't have good equalization, and I want to be considerate of my neighbors and right now that's the only deciding factor in getting the Denon. Is that true with the Pioneer line of receivers? I tend to take everything a Best Buy rep says with a grain of salt because these are the same people that told my friend an LED tv is better for action movies than a Plasma because they have a faster refresh rate. Another friend of mine says he has a pioneer and he puts it on Midnight Mode at night, does that work well? I've also read that mode diminishes the sound quality.

Is there a difference between 1121K and VSX-50? Because they didn't have the non-Elite line of receivers there for me to test out. I read a post on here once and someone stated the only thing different between a Pioneer and a Pioneer Elite is the name, is that true? If I order the 1121k online will it have the same sound as the amazing VSX-50 I checked out? Or should I go for the VSX-52?

What I'm going to use it for is gaming, movies and music (mainly metal, hard rock, classic rock and 80's).

What I'm looking for in a receiver:
-3D Capabilities (hooking up to a Samsung PN59D8000)
-Pandora Internet radio
-At least 5 HDMI ports

I will be hooking this up to a MartinLogan MLT-2 5.1 system, then when I move where I don't need to be considerate I'll get some bookshelf speakers or something larger.
If anyone can help with this I'd really appreciate it!
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post #2 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 05:12 PM
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Equilization has nothing to do with annoying the neighbors. It's main purpose is to correct for irregularities caused by your room and/or speaker layout.

Midnight mode will help lessen sudden loud increases in volume.

The elite name by itself means nothing, but pioneers better receivers are labelled elite. The vsx-50 and 1121 will sound very similar. You probably wont be able to hear a difference. I think the 1121 is better.

The best buy employee is correct that the audyssey room correction on the denon is superior to mcacc on the pioneer. I think most would agree with that. But again, neither will help your neighbors.
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post #3 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerc2 View Post

Hello all, I am brand new to audio and this site and I am in a little bit of a dilemma in choosing an AV Receiver.

I recently went to Magnolia home theater inside of Best Buy to check out some receivers. I went in there with the intention of comparing the Onkyo TX-NR709 and the Denon AVR-2112ci, I didn't care for the Onkyo, my favorite was the Denon. Then the representative showed me the Pioneer VSX-50 and I liked that more than the Denon.

However I have decided on the Denon because of the equalization (proper term?), since I live in an apartment with thin walls if I am watching a movie with dialogue, then if there's an explosion it won't get too loud for my neighbors. At Magnolia home theater, the representative said the Pioneer doesn't have good equalization, and I want to be considerate of my neighbors and right now that's the only deciding factor in getting the Denon. Is that true with the Pioneer line of receivers? I tend to take everything a Best Buy rep says with a grain of salt because these are the same people that told my friend an LED tv is better for action movies than a Plasma because they have a faster refresh rate. Another friend of mine says he has a pioneer and he puts it on Midnight Mode at night, does that work well? I've also read that mode diminishes the sound quality.

Is there a difference between 1121K and VSX-50? Because they didn't have the non-Elite line of receivers there for me to test out. I read a post on here once and someone stated the only thing different between a Pioneer and a Pioneer Elite is the name, is that true? If I order the 1121k online will it have the same sound as the amazing VSX-50 I checked out? Or should I go for the VSX-52?

What I'm going to use it for is gaming, movies and music (mainly metal, hard rock, classic rock and 80's).

What I'm looking for in a receiver:
-3D Capabilities (hooking up to a Samsung PN59D8000)
-Pandora Internet radio
-At least 5 HDMI ports

I will be hooking this up to a MartinLogan MLT-2 5.1 system, then when I move where I don't need to be considerate I'll get some bookshelf speakers or something larger.
If anyone can help with this I'd really appreciate it!

There are threads in this particular sub forum that discuss the merits of the various room correction technologies.
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post #4 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The elite name by itself means nothing, but pioneers better receivers are labelled elite.

Elite models come with a 2 year warranty.
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post #5 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 06:44 PM
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As mentioned above, the equalization is a featire that helps to correct the sound quality for your particular room. The system measures how your room affects the sound and compensates for it. It has nothing to do with the loudness of explosions.

Onkyo and Denon use a EQ system called Audyssey MultEQ XT(http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq) which was developed by Audyssey originally as an add-on device (costing $2K), but now is built into many inexpensive receivers.

Pioneer uses a EQ system they call MCACC, which is a Pioneer specific feature. It has the same overall effect but works differently. Some people prefer one over the other. I prefer Audyssey because it provides a high degree of correction for the subwoofer channel which is usually the most problematic issue for many people's rooms. Pioneer's system does no correction which is a big omission IMO.

For the issues of explosions being too loud:

What you want is a dynamic range compression feature. In earlier receivers, this used to be called "night mode" or something like that. It was a very simple circuit which compressed the sound.

But now both Denon and Onkyo provide a feature called Audyssey Dynamic Volume which analyzes the sound in real time and provides consistent volume control (http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-volume).

The Onkyo goes a step further in offering Dolby Volume which is Dolby Corp's similar technology. http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...-details.html# which is available in the THX mode of the receiver. If you are not in THX mode, you can use Audyssey Dynamic Volume (you can choose either in the settings)

Pioneer doesn't offer either but has a ALC mode which provides the same overall effect.

All three receivers (709/1121/2112) also offer low volume compensation. On the Denon, it's called Audyssey Dynamic EQ (http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-eq). On the Pioneer, you can use THX Loudness Plus in the THX mode. The Onkyo has both Dynamic EQ and THX Loudness Plus. This is a great feature because if you listen at lower volumes, it helps improve the sound. I upgraded my perfectly fine receiver just to get this feature, because I find it makes a very noticable difference and improves my enjoyment of the sound.

As for the Elite vs Pioneer, the Elite series is mainly sold at audio/video dealers whereas the regular Pioneer is mostly mainstream retailers. There is overlap between the two lines. I guess the most important difference is the longer warranty on the Elite (2 vs 1 year)

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post #6 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 06:48 PM
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One of the equilization systems, Audessey, is about to introduce a new technology they claim will limit the amount of sound that escapes outside of your listening area. I believe it will be on some new models that will be introduced in a couple of months.

Otherwise, it doesn't work as he imagines - or, is trying to sell it as.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerc2 View Post

Hello all, I am brand new to audio and this site and I am in a little bit of a dilemma in choosing an AV Receiver.

I recently went to Magnolia home theater inside of Best Buy to check out some receivers. I went in there with the intention of comparing the Onkyo TX-NR709 and the Denon AVR-2112ci, I didn't care for the Onkyo, my favorite was the Denon. Then the representative showed me the Pioneer VSX-50 and I liked that more than the Denon.

However I have decided on the Denon because of the equalization (proper term?), since I live in an apartment with thin walls if I am watching a movie with dialogue, then if there's an explosion it won't get too loud for my neighbors. At Magnolia home theater, the representative said the Pioneer doesn't have good equalization, and I want to be considerate of my neighbors and right now that's the only deciding factor in getting the Denon. Is that true with the Pioneer line of receivers? I tend to take everything a Best Buy rep says with a grain of salt because these are the same people that told my friend an LED tv is better for action movies than a Plasma because they have a faster refresh rate. Another friend of mine says he has a pioneer and he puts it on Midnight Mode at night, does that work well? I've also read that mode diminishes the sound quality.

Is there a difference between 1121K and VSX-50? Because they didn't have the non-Elite line of receivers there for me to test out. I read a post on here once and someone stated the only thing different between a Pioneer and a Pioneer Elite is the name, is that true? If I order the 1121k online will it have the same sound as the amazing VSX-50 I checked out? Or should I go for the VSX-52?

What I'm going to use it for is gaming, movies and music (mainly metal, hard rock, classic rock and 80's).

What I'm looking for in a receiver:
-3D Capabilities (hooking up to a Samsung PN59D8000)
-Pandora Internet radio
-At least 5 HDMI ports

I will be hooking this up to a MartinLogan MLT-2 5.1 system, then when I move where I don't need to be considerate I'll get some bookshelf speakers or something larger.
If anyone can help with this I'd really appreciate it!

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post #7 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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warpdrive:

Very informative post! I have read a lot of people praising Audyssey MultEQ XT on this site.

I was just amazed with the sound of the Pioneer over the Denon, it was exactly my style. My thinking was that when I'm in this apartment, I'll have the Denon but when I move to a place where I don't need to be considerate I will get a pioneer. The Pioneer has a nice and crisp and I know it will sound amazing for my style of music.

Given that you stated the Pioneer has low listening volume options if I am watching an action movie and won't have to keep on lowering or raising the volume I'm definitely going to go with the Pioneer. The 1121k has the exact options I'm looking for.

Thank you all for your great & informative replies.
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post #8 of 8 Old 01-01-2012, 08:20 PM
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I have been told that Pioneer Elite SC series work really good with their IceAmp technology, currently the SC-57 model has the Class D amp... which is really good... I do agree that Pio lacks the Subwoofer calibration, i was wondering if i cud use an external device like the AntiMode or the SMS-1 along with the Pioneer SC-57 (which i plan to buy soon), however i was still wondering how does the Denon 4311ci or a greater denon model fares against the Pio SC series.
I have a Definitive Technology Mythos ST series HT setup, with a THT subwoofer.
Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but i am in a state of a great delimma.
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