Why is the Denon 3312 26.8 lbs and the Onkyo 809 is 40.3 lbs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-09-2012, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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One would think the Onkyo is better built re capacitors, or transformers, or cooling radiators, or something/s potentially weighty. Or do they just line the box with lead?

Any thoughts on what this means for build quality?

Any other insights on the two models?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-12-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrake View Post

One would think the Onkyo is better built re capacitors, or transformers, or cooling radiators, or something/s potentially weighty. Or do they just line the box with lead?

Any thoughts on what this means for build quality?

Any other insights on the two models?

Thanks!

Buy the onkyo for the better power amps.
If you got those tiny speakers there selling these days than the denon is good. Denon got more tweaks with software, but onkyo is better hardware.
Both are good units for most users, but the onkyo amps are better for full range speakers, if you have > 8 inch woofers than onkyo is your only choice.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-12-2012, 10:36 AM
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The Onkyo has a better amp section and that is probably why it's heavier. The Onkyo also has a better video processor as well. It's also THX certified which I like only for the extra THX sound modes that come along with the certification. The thing I like that the Denon has over the Onkyo is the Airplay and the extra year of warranty they provide.
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 12:47 PM
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OTOH, if you're planning to use an external amp and the pre-outs anyway, most of the Onkyo's advantage disappears...
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

OTOH, if you're planning to use an external amp and the pre-outs anyway, most of the Onkyo's advantage disappears...

sure but at an added cost.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

sure but at an added cost.

The added cost would be the same whether you're using Denon or Onkyo, though.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrake View Post

One would think the Onkyo is better built re capacitors, or transformers, or cooling radiators, or something/s potentially weighty. Or do they just line the box with lead?

Any thoughts on what this means for build quality?

Any other insights on the two models?

Thanks!

I had wondered that before and compared a Denon 3310 and Onkyo 807 a couple years to see if the Onkyo did have an advantage. I was not able to get either to break when testing them so both had good amp sections. Looking at test bench I have not seen Onkyo blow Denon out and in some cases the Denons have done better. It really doesn't matter much as 20 watts per channel are not going to make much of a difference in real world performance. The main advantage that the Onkyo 809 has over the 3312 is it has Dolby Volume. The Denon's advantage would be airplay. Both will have good power so don't let fans of either brand sway you one way or another. Its best to make decisions based on features.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

The added cost would be the same whether you're using Denon or Onkyo, though.

yes but take them as is with no external amp, the Onkyo is the better buy.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

yes but take them as is with no external amp, the Onkyo is the better buy.

A better buy is still debateable, but I would agree that the Onkyo has a more robust amplifier section.

For most people, it's advisable to shop for features first, and look at amps second. In the vast majority of installations, Denon's amps are just fine. Only those with plans to drive their systems especially hard, or to drive especially inefficient speakers will have issues. So if the Onkyo's features meet your needs, and the Denon's don't, then I'd absolutely agree the Onkyo is the way to go. If there is a feature in one system or another that is highly desirable, that should outweigh the Onkyo's superior amplifier... in most situations.

There are only a small handful of features that truly differentiate these AVRs, outside of the amp power.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 05:32 PM
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Larger, more powerful amp section. Although weight is not necessarily an indication of power alone because fans can do a similar job as bigger heatsinks (albeit louder).
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 06:07 PM
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My 5800 weighs 62 lbs. It makes a good paper weight now without Audyssey or HDMI ins and outs, but it has a very good amp section.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite View Post

Larger, more powerful amp section. Although weight is not necessarily an indication of power alone because fans can do a similar job as bigger heatsinks (albeit louder).

IMO, the power transformer is the likely source of weight differences, not the heat sinks. The heat sinks are probably fairly light weight (aluminum I would guess.)

The power transformer is iron and copper. If it's big, it's a lot of iron and copper.

Goto a surplus electronics store, and see how heavy some of the mid size transformer are (say 400 to 600 VA rated). Or pick up an XBox 360 power supply. Pretty heavy for it's size. etc.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-13-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

IMO, the power transformer is the likely source of weight differences, not the heat sinks. The heat sinks are probably fairly light weight (aluminum I would guess.)

The power transformer is iron and copper. If it's big, it's a lot of iron and copper.

Goto a surplus electronics store, and see how heavy some of the mid size transformer are (say 400 to 600 VA rated). Or pick up an XBox 360 power supply. Pretty heavy for it's size. etc.

Agreed. There are (*gasp*) products that don't weigh "enough" and can deliver their performance claims. Sony makes a few of them, see here:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...-labs-measures

That part weighs 28 lbs.

An Integra, with similar output abilities:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/i...-labs-measures

And it weighs 12 lbs more.

Heavy facades, frames, and bulky transformers push weight up - most consumers like that. They do nothing for performance though. I'm not saying either is a "scam" - both perform - I am saying that you shouldn't judge a part by it's weight. It doesn't tell you anything. The actual "parts" for an amplifier are fairly light; ICs and transistors are not heavy.

As mjpearce023 said - don't worry so much about weight or that "last watt" philosophy; pick whatever suits your needs. I also entirely disagree with the first response "if you have 8" woofers you need the Onkyo" - no. The size of a speaker's woofer doesn't speak to efficiency or anything else; there are plenty of very efficient and very large speakers (Klipschorn as an example), and very inefficient and very small speakers. There's no "hard and fast rules of thumb" here, at least that abstract or remove the "science and thinking" part of the program.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-14-2012, 02:33 AM
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I also entirely disagree with the first response "if you have 8" woofers you need the Onkyo" - no. The size of a speaker's woofer doesn't speak to efficiency or anything else; there are plenty of very efficient and very large speakers (Klipschorn as an example), and very inefficient and very small speakers. There's no "hard and fast rules of thumb" here, at least that abstract or remove the "science and thinking" part of the program..

yup...here you go.

http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2009...subwoofer.html

Sounds like joehonest is a rabid Onkyo fanboy lol. As for only choice bit, Joe a dedicated poweramp will totally destroy your precious Onkyo.

I certainly don't choose the amp by weight, who does that? Although if there are two amps of a similar class and one is considerably lighter it's possible they've skimped on heatsinks and power supply.

Quote:


They do nothing for performance though.

Have to disagree, power supply is important. As for casing, if it's so shoddy it could rattle from the sound waves produced in your room. I've had to dampen a Marantz CDP.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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