Help - Is upgrading the receiver worth it? Need thoughts... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 02-18-2012, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX 49Tx that I bought in..2002 I believe (paid..2200.00 for it). This receiver puts out a nice amount of power and drives a Definitive Technology 7.1 system (BP 2000, C/L/R 2000, BPVX surrounds).

Now with the upgrade to Blu Ray I put a new TV in (Panasonic 65vt30) and a new Blu Ray player (oppo 93). This means that I'm currently letting the OPPO do the processing and going to analog inputs for the receiver. I'm then telling the receiver to be on "multi channel in" and in turn, not process anything but to simply be essentially an amplifier.

With all that said - the question is, is it worth it for me to go to a new receiver, say for example the Elite 57, or Integra 70.3? What am I missing now, that I will get from another receiver, and is it worth the 2-3k that I would spend?

The oppo seems to do a good job with processing, but I don't know anything else - so I have nothing to compare to right now. I ONLY use my TV/system to watch movies either from Blu Ray/DVD or streaming from Netflix. I don't even have an antenna hooked up (I'm not a fan of TV)

I'm looking for guidance here from people before I spend 3k with seemingly little gain (or I could be totally wrong and I could gain lots - I don't know).

help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 35 Old 02-18-2012, 10:54 PM
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Why do you need to spend $3k? Grab a Denon 4311 for $1350 from an authorized online reseller and call it a day. Its got an excellent amp section for a receiver and MultEq XT32, which is arguably the most sophisticated room-correction software available. Its a bargain for what you get. Put the other $1500-2000 towards a sub if you want to.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1388717
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post #3 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post

Why do you need to spend $3k? Grab a Denon 4311 for $1350 from an authorized online reseller and call it a day. Its got an excellent amp section for a receiver and MultEq XT32, which is arguably the most sophisticated room-correction software available. Its a bargain for what you get. Put the other $1500-2000 towards a sub if you want to.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1388717

I guess I've never been a big fan of Denon - but I'll give it a look.

I guess the question still is this - What do I get out of a new receiver that I don't have now - and is it worth it?
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post #4 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 01:23 AM
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With either the Integra 70.3 or the Denon 4311CI you get Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which would likely provide a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity over your existing "non-DSP" system.

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post #5 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

With either the Integra 70.3 or the Denon 4311CI you get Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which would likely provide a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity over your existing "non-DSP" system.

denon vs. integra? thoughts? -- also, do either do wi fi? (I would LOVE to stream video from my PC to the receiver, but I don't think receivers do that yet...)
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post #6 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 02:10 AM
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Likely pros and cons for both (although not familiar with Integra), although the Denon 4311CI can likely be had at a much lower cost as noted by jjackkrash. Both can do wi-fi (as can any networking AVR) when connected to a wireless router via a wireless bridge or direct connect to the router (and possibly via a USB wi-fi adapter for the Integra although not sure, do know that's the case for the Onkyo models).

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post #7 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 09:33 AM
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I still own Denon's Flagship receiver from 2000-2001, the Denon 5800. Its a beast and I was in love with it. I hated the idea of buying a new receiver, especially one that was a "step down" in the model line, when my 5800 still worked perfectly as designed, but I got sick of no HDMI plugs and always having to do a work around. I didn't think much of having Audyssey (MultEQ XT32) and thought it was just snake oil. Boy was i wrong. My 4311 is a workhorse and XT32 made an instant improvement to my HT experience. I love it. I don't know much about Onkyo's, and if you feel better with that brand great, but XT32 is no joke and worth the upgrade, IMHO.
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post #8 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 09:49 AM
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I have a 5803, and currently run it with 7.1 analogs from my BD player. So kinda the same boat you were in... Also running an Antimode 8033 on dual subs. I have run REW, and the graphs arent bad... So you're saying that Audessey is that good, huh?
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post #9 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

denon vs. integra? thoughts? -- also, do either do wi fi? (I would LOVE to stream video from my PC to the receiver, but I don't think receivers do that yet...)

I like Integra. Very clean sounding and gobs of features. You can get the 50.3 for less than the $1,500 retail price. I think the Integra look is just plain sexy and whenever I have people over that's one of the first things they comment on! Here's a link to the Integra DTR 50.3. There is a discussion here in AVS and on Blu Ray.com of the .3 series also. I have a 40.3 btw.

http://www.integrahometheater.com/mo...m=DTR-50.3&p=i

Jeff
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post #10 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

I have a 5803, and currently run it with 7.1 analogs from my BD player. So kinda the same boat you were in... Also running an Antimode 8033 on dual subs. I have run REW, and the graphs arent bad... So you're saying that Audessey is that good, huh?

Compared to no room correction, I think its awesome. I have also heard good things about Anti-Mode. When I set my HT up way back when, that was basically the last thought I gave to equipment or improvements until recently and I moved long a distance and lost my sub, an external amp, and a bunch of speakers in the move. I had no idea what Audyssey, or room correction, or measuring equipment did until recently. Swapping out the Denons and running XT32 made an immediate improvement to my setup, and I am learning more about set up and room correction every day. So I can't say XT32 is that much better than an external eq or processor, but I can say with confidence its much better than having no room correction at all.
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post #11 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 10:34 AM
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That Integra has a lot of media services! It even has Spotify.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #12 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 10:42 AM
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The up-grades in a newer receiver over your vsx-29 would be too numerous to list. Just head over to a manufactures website and look at the specs page of any receiver in your price range. HDMI, 24/192, room correction, video processing (if you need it - I suspect most really don't), advanced bass management, more accurate speaker setup and adjustments, internet radio, streaming, firmware updates, etc. and ease of use once you figure it all out.

Vintage gear can still be very usefull and enjoyable. I wish I still had my H/K 520, and Pioneer 59txi, and Outlaw 990, and... though I'm not sure what I'd do with them .
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post #13 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a typo in my first thread (which I fixed) - I did have the flagship of the pio line - the 49tx. so I'm in the same boat as the people on here with the 5800 series dennon - as my choices back then were between the 49tx and the 5800 series (I think it was th 5803 at the time).

I'm reading that Pioneer is about 1 year behind all the other technology out there, but I'm also reading that pioneer sounds awesome. I've read multiple places where people are still using their 49tx as a pre/pro because they like it that much.

I'm going to look at the Integra 70.3 and the Denon 4311. Is there a reason to go to the 80.3?
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post #14 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post


I'm going to look at the Integra 70.3 and the Denon 4311. Is there a reason to go to the 80.3?

Good luck in your decision, I'm going through the same upgrade fever, and at least for now I've decided on the Denon 4311. I have a couple of months though so this may change if xx13 is worth the upgrade.

Integra 50.3 was on my list and I did a good bit of reading on it, the 70.3 and 80.3. Honestly, I couldn't figure out what the 80.3 brings with the significant price increase over the 70.3 other than +10 and creative marketing.

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post #15 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

I guess I've never been a big fan of Denon - but I'll give it a look.

I guess the question still is this - What do I get out of a new receiver that I don't have now - and is it worth it?

the 4311ci is about 2k everywhere I'm looking now. Does AVS have a special deal or something? I'd snap it up under 14, but at 2k it puts it around the integra thus making the choice harder.

if someone can find the authorized seller at 1400 I'd be appreciative. I looked on Elec. Expo - 1998.99
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post #16 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

the 4311ci is about 2k everywhere I'm looking now. Does AVS have a special deal or something? I'd snap it up under 14, but at 2k it puts it around the integra thus making the choice harder.

if someone can find the authorized seller at 1400 I'd be appreciative. I looked on Elec. Expo - 1998.99

The 70.3 if that's where you want to go, should have more than enough features, power and everything in between to satisfy anyones needs. But again, the 50.3 is only 10wpc difference than the 80.3 and 5wpc difference than the 70.3 and way less expensive. Where do you live? The 50.3 is $1500 retail and you can get it for less than that.

Jeff
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post #17 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

the 4311ci is about 2k everywhere I'm looking now. Does AVS have a special deal or something? I'd snap it up under 14, but at 2k it puts it around the integra thus making the choice harder.

if someone can find the authorized seller at 1400 I'd be appreciative. I looked on Elec. Expo - 1998.99

You cant just look at the their website, you need to speak to a sales rep to get the discount pricing. Look at this open box like new 4311.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/open...g-1080p-and-3d

I bet if you call, a new one in an unopened box wont be a whole lot more.

Actually Newegg has it for the same bargain price brand new! Sale ends today.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882683026

Electronics Expo will price match as long as the item is in stock.

Afro GT
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post #18 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

the 4311ci is about 2k everywhere I'm looking now. Does AVS have a special deal or something? I'd snap it up under 14, but at 2k it puts it around the integra thus making the choice harder.

if someone can find the authorized seller at 1400 I'd be appreciative. I looked on Elec. Expo - 1998.99

I learned this from multiple avsforum posts - call Electronics Expo or J&R, both authorized dealers, and see if they will match Newegg's price, which today is $1249.99. They may not go that low, but you will probably get it for under $1400 shipped.

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post #19 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

You cant just look at the their website, you need to speak to a sales rep to get the discount pricing. Look at this open box like new 4311.

http://www.electronics-expo.com/open...g-1080p-and-3d

I bet if you call, a new one in an unopened box wont be a whole lot more.

Actually Newegg has it for the same bargain price brand new! Sale ends today.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882683026

Newegg is not an authorized dealer. Here is a list of sites you can safely buy from online:

http://usa.denon.com/US/WhereToBuy/P...eETailers.aspx

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post #20 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:55 AM
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Then call Electronics Expo or J&R for a price match. They are authorized.

Afro GT
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post #21 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 11:57 AM
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Yup, call EE. Here is a recent deal thread on the 4311:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1388717

And you can get a very good deal on it brand-spanking-new in the box with full warranty to boot.
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post #22 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 12:35 PM
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That is a sweet deal on the Denon 4311!! Go for it!!

Jeff
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post #23 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

The 70.3 if that's where you want to go, should have more than enough features, power and everything in between to satisfy anyones needs. But again, the 50.3 is only 10wpc difference than the 80.3 and 5wpc difference than the 70.3 and way less expensive. Where do you live? The 50.3 is $1500 retail and you can get it for less than that.

Jeff

the 50.3 vs. the 4311 -- thats where about I am right now. I was going to go "flagship" route, but I don't need that as much as I like haveing "the best" of things, I won't necessarily use it. Is the only thing I'm losing with the 50.3 wattage? (vs 70.3 or 80.3 for example)

I live in Milwaukee WI, USA.
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post #24 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

I guess the question still is this - What do I get out of a new receiver that I don't have now - and is it worth it?

The others mentioned XT32, which I agree is worth considering an upgrade for on its' own, but with the new hi-rez codecs like DTS HD MA I think it's also a good idea to keep it digital as far down the food chain as possible.
Let the receiver "unpack" and clock it before doing the room correction and D/A conversion vs having the Oppo do it then adding an extra A/D process.
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post #25 of 35 Old 02-19-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

the 50.3 vs. the 4311 -- thats where about I am right now. I was going to go "flagship" route, but I don't need that as much as I like haveing "the best" of things, I won't necessarily use it. Is the only thing I'm losing with the 50.3 wattage? (vs 70.3 or 80.3 for example)

I live in Milwaukee WI, USA.

The 50.3 is the Integra version of the Onkyo 1009. The 70.3 is the Integra version of the 3009.

Biggest differences are Audyssey XT vs XT32 and THX Select vs Ultra certification (if the latter matters to you). The watts difference is insignificant in real world use, however.
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post #26 of 35 Old 02-20-2012, 02:06 AM
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^^^^
The Integra is 7.1 while the Onkyo is 9.1.
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post #27 of 35 Old 02-20-2012, 02:31 AM
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The Onkyo 3009 seems to be a "Best Buy" right now, having all the goodies like 4k video, Audyssey MultEQ XT32, a lot of power, the codec for the new DTS Neo:X.
Its a 9.2 AVR.
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post #28 of 35 Old 02-20-2012, 02:37 AM
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^^^^
I have the 3009 & I really like it. I am running 2 subs. I must of had a senior moment when I posted it was a 9.1.
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post #29 of 35 Old 03-05-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok - so now I'm at 70.3 vs. 4311ci. I'm leaning strongly to the 70.3 mainly because the price i can get it for isn't that much of a difference from the 4311ci. basically the difference after tax and shipping is 400 dollars.

I'm kinda set on integra over Onkyo so it really is the 70.3 vs 4311ci. the 80.3 is not needed for me, and the 50.3 doesn't have xt32.

So, between these (or the 3009 if that is your frame of ref) - which one? Denon or Integra?
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post #30 of 35 Old 03-06-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capolan View Post

Ok - so now I'm at 70.3 vs. 4311ci. I'm leaning strongly to the 70.3 mainly because the price i can get it for isn't that much of a difference from the 4311ci. basically the difference after tax and shipping is 400 dollars.

I'm kinda set on integra over Onkyo so it really is the 70.3 vs 4311ci. the 80.3 is not needed for me, and the 50.3 doesn't have xt32.

So, between these (or the 3009 if that is your frame of ref) - which one? Denon or Integra?

Capolan,

I just purchased the DTR 80.3. I am currently waiting for it to come in. The biggest difference between the 70 and the 80 is that the 80 has a toroidal transformer with three independent power supplies. The 70 has one less power supply and uses the standard transformer. Toroidal transformers are supposed to give cleaner power to the speakers vs. tradional transformers. I would say that if the speakers you have are not that great than going to the 80.3 may not make much of a difference. However, if you plan to upgrade speakers at a later date you may want to consider the 80.3. Really, that is the largest difference between the two. Also, the 50.3 uses THX Select 2 vs. the 70.3 and 80.3 use THX Ultra 2. Differences in select vs. ultra is room size in cubic ft. Denon 4311 is not THX certified, but for some people it's not a deal breaker. However, for me, THX is used frequently in my household, so it had to be in the new receiver.

I too, was in the same boat as you regarding the oppo and using the analog outputs, and frankly it just doesn't sound right even after adjustments. I have a Marantz SR7500 which has been great, but lacks HDMI connectivity and the Audessey room correction. I'm hoping that I will hear a noticeable change with the new receiver, and from what some posters have said I should hear the difference. I spent two weeks banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what to upgrade to, and I completely know what it is like to be in your shoes. All I can say is take it all in with a grain of salt and go with what meets your needs. Whatever receiver you pick out of the three are all great receivers.

Josh D.
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