ONKYO? Never again! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 61 Old 03-05-2012, 10:59 PM
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Ive bought a few items thru a4l - its signature required for delivery.

So someone signs off on a busted unit, you dont do anything about it, and then the hilariously bad repair shop bungles it...

that sucks =/ i just got boned on a CL amp purchase - damn thing has a hum and no way im using it without a complete checkup...which defeats the purpose of buying it cheap on CL.

here is the real kicker on the onkyo - they will send it back fixed only to have the same issues as has happened to every receiver i have ever heard of going to service. HDMI is the devil.

Good luck

REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #32 of 61 Old 03-05-2012, 11:37 PM
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wow a lot of people saying don't buy refurb........when in reality the issue is don't buy a brand with bad reliability... I have a TON of refubed products from LG to Yamaha and they have all pretty much been trouble free.

You know also with Fed EX and UPS they run away quick so that they can make their schedule for the day....


I received a Damaged RX-V667 from Fed-EX and the seller and I worked out a deal where he would pay for replacement parts and I fixed the receiver. Opened up receiver, inspected all of the components and found nothing broken internally and the unit passed it's own diagnostic self test and all the features work. Ordered up a new faceplate and instaled it. Used a rubber mallot and 2x4 to bend the metal back into place on cover and it's all good.

I chose this route because it was an easy repair.

Strong or weak in the end we are all dead
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post #33 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 04:01 AM
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Sorry to burst the bubble I've been reading here but...

Onkyo/Integra line up of X08's and XX08's don't have the same problems the previous models have had! Nope, they have a "new and improved problem" that affects every model including the flagship/top of the line ones, even the Integra's! They have a failure that prompted a press release from Onkyo (rapidly scrolling thru listening modes, remote and hard buttons on unit not responding, turning on by itself, inability to shut it off except by unplugging the unit to name a few) that is caused by a faulty IDE cable and connectors, plus goo that was covering the board. A few of the members here have actually done the repair themselves, since Onkyo/Integra would only send the unit to a "Regional Service Center" (they paid the shipping, and even sent a shipping box when requested) and these service centers were literally swamped with the affected models (receiving up to a dozen every day!) The press release stated this problem would be corrected even when the unit was out of warrentee.

The X08/XX08 units by all accounts ran much cooler than the previous models, and some of the units failed imediately, while most took 4-6 months to develope the glitch. Once the problem was "correctly identified" (atleast we are all hoping it has been!) repaired units have not failed again (thus far!)

This unfortunately speaks volumes about poor Quality Control.

Yes, the market share for Onkyo may be large, and yes sales may be up....
But as P.T. Barnum famously said "there is a sucker born every minute"
and before I get flamed for calling some people suckers, remember I am in the same boat...
and also the proud owner of a 708, which is an awesome unit when working as it should!
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post #34 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Also a siginificant % of their reported failures are due to improper user installation for ventilation. An AVR needs at least 3" of free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover, also no component should be stacked on top. The lack of adequate ventilation raises the AVR's internal temperature significantly, and heat shortens significantly its reliability and life.

Just my $0.02..

If Onkyos were only sold at high end electronics outlets, I would agree. But, sice they're sold at Walmart, I think it's expecting too much for someone to make sure there's 3" of clearance on all sides and nothing stacked on top. I would guess the majority of entertainment centers sold at Walmart would be insufficient for placing an Onkyo receiver in.

I have a Yamaha receiver in a spot for years without problems. I replace it with an Onkyo in the exact same spot under the same conditions and within a year and half, I have complete video failure. I have 3" of clearance and there's nothing stacked on top and still it fails.

Others have stated that Onkyo receivers require computer cooling fans hooked up to them. If people purchasing Onkyo's were told they need to do that to keep them from failing, their sales would drop to 0.
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post #35 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 08:02 AM
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If you can, double box and insure it for the high value!
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post #36 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 09:12 AM
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While I loved my Onkyo TX-NR905 and 906, they both exhibited HDMI board failures from drying caps. It cannot be a result of ventilation because the amps were out in the open and I had 120mm PC fans over the HDMI boards since I bought them. The HQV processor used by Onkyo really generates a lot of heat. Plus the use of underated caps compounded the issue. HQV should really require heat sinks be placed on these chips.

The current Onkyos are now having problems where the receiver refuses to acknowledge commands from the remote and starts switching between inputs on its own. Onkyo has acknowledged the issue and is doing repairs accordingly.

But the problem still remains that Onkyo has a serious quality control issue which takes literally years to fix.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #37 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 09:29 AM
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dbx123
Well, conventional wisdom would tell you that a refurb is a "as good as new product" that has the bug(s)
worked out, and that it shouldn't repeat the same failure. I actually looked at this as an advantage.


I had a problem with something I bought. The company fixed it 4 times before I got a new one.
When I got it back it would work for about 3 weeks then fail again.I feel sorry for the guy who bought
it as a referb. I hope he got a good deal.

The reason I don't buy referbs is that you don't know how badly the unit failed , how many times it
was repaired or how skilled the teck is.
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post #38 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 10:26 AM
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Wow that really sucks. I personally wouldn't buy a high valued avr that was a refurb without a warranty myself. Hopefully someone can learn from your awful experience. Good luck with it.
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post #39 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If Onkyos were only sold at high end electronics outlets, I would agree. But, sice they're sold at Walmart, I think it's expecting too much for someone to make sure there's 3" of clearance on all sides and nothing stacked on top. I would guess the majority of entertainment centers sold at Walmart would be insufficient for placing an Onkyo receiver in.

I have a Yamaha receiver in a spot for years without problems. I replace it with an Onkyo in the exact same spot under the same conditions and within a year and half, I have complete video failure. I have 3" of clearance and there's nothing stacked on top and still it fails.

Others have stated that Onkyo receivers require computer cooling fans hooked up to them. If people purchasing Onkyo's were told they need to do that to keep them from failing, their sales would drop to 0.

The Yammy swap begs the question, how old was it when you replaced it with an Onkyo? The reason I ask is it appears that the Yammy, being a few years older than the Onkyo, probably had limited video processing by comparison, which would mean it would run much cooler.

3 inches is not a lot of clearance. It's even less if it's in an enclosed cabinet. But at the end of the day, Onkyo really should have caps with higher temp ratings.
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post #40 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post


This unfortunately speaks volumes about poor Quality Control.!

At this point its engineering and design at fault. Or maybe the bean counters, they wanted to use cheaper components to save afew pennies per unit. If it worked the day you got it, then QC did their job..
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post #41 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

wow a lot of people saying don't buy refurb........when in reality the issue is don't buy a brand with bad reliability... I have a TON of refubed products from LG to Yamaha and they have all pretty much been trouble free.

Holy cow, another poster who actually comprehends!

Bingo.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

Sorry to burst the bubble I've been reading here but...

Onkyo/Integra line up of X08's and XX08's don't have the same problems the previous models have had! Nope, they have a "new and improved problem" that affects every model including the flagship/top of the line ones, even the Integra's! They have a failure that prompted a press release from Onkyo (rapidly scrolling thru listening modes, remote and hard buttons on unit not responding, turning on by itself, inability to shut it off except by unplugging the unit to name a few) that is caused by a faulty IDE cable and connectors, plus goo that was covering the board. A few of the members here have actually done the repair themselves, since Onkyo/Integra would only send the unit to a "Regional Service Center" (they paid the shipping, and even sent a shipping box when requested) and these service centers were literally swamped with the affected models (receiving up to a dozen every day!) The press release stated this problem would be corrected even when the unit was out of warrentee.

The X08/XX08 units by all accounts ran much cooler than the previous models, and some of the units failed imediately, while most took 4-6 months to develope the glitch. Once the problem was "correctly identified" (atleast we are all hoping it has been!) repaired units have not failed again (thus far!)

This unfortunately speaks volumes about poor Quality Control.

Yes, the market share for Onkyo may be large, and yes sales may be up....
But as P.T. Barnum famously said "there is a sucker born every minute"
and before I get flamed for calling some people suckers, remember I am in the same boat...
and also the proud owner of a 708, which is an awesome unit when working as it should!

The uncontrolled scrolling? Um...yep...3wks after the HDMI failed. I was simply putting off sending the beast up the east coast...but then the scrolling deal happened . And yes, you had to unplug it...couldn't even turn it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If Onkyos were only sold at high end electronics outlets, I would agree. But, sice they're sold at Walmart, I think it's expecting too much for someone to make sure there's 3" of clearance on all sides and nothing stacked on top.

Don't take that bait. Any AVR needs ventilation, but the poster you quoted might as well be saying, "Those aren't the droids you're looking for..." Anyone here who has even read a handful of Onkyo threads knows they have serious, repetitive issues, that have nothing to do with ventilation. Nothing. And btw, just call United Radio in NY. LOL, they know what's wrong with your unit before you even send it to them for repair! (seriously)


Oh, and just to add to the party; while I stated that my returned unit is functioning perfectly? I forgot to mention that I cannot complete a mic set-up without receiving an error message. This wasn't an issue before. To be fair, I haven't spent much time trying to find out what's up, but...my hopes for an easy fix ain't high at this point .
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post #42 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 06:36 PM
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I have nothing but good things to say about Onkyo's support. My 1007 failed (HDMI board) 2 months out of warranty, Onkyo replaced with a brand new 1009 at no cost to me.
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post #43 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodean View Post

I have nothing but good things to say about Onkyo's support. My 1007 failed (HDMI board) 2 months out of warranty, Onkyo replaced with a brand new 1009 at no cost to me.

WOW that is great customer service !
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post #44 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by idkwhattoput View Post

WOW that was great customer service !

*fixed*
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post #45 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 09:12 PM
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my own personal experience... Onkyo refurbs FROM ShopOnkyo.com have been flawless... the one time I ordered from AC 4from hell was a nightmare... 2 dead 876's in a row... hassles returning... poor communication... talked to like it was my fault... given false promises and the general run around ... while they kept my $700 for 2 months.
But I just gave the receiver from an old HT430 system ($100 originally, with the speakers and sub) to a buddy... going strong... my DVD player DV SP 502 ($50) hasn't had a hiccup, plays SACD's and everything. And I'm currently enjoying the heck out of my 707 ($296) .
Maybe they only send off their crappiest (been "re-furbed" 3 or more times) off to AC4why ... could be why they 'seem' to offer low prices. Maybe I'm the only one... just relaying my experiences. Hope it helps

...what a long, strange trip its been.
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post #46 of 61 Old 03-06-2012, 11:36 PM
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Even unsophisticated AVR purchasers who don't spend time researching a potential unit they are about to plunk down hard earned cash for know the reputation of Onkyo as the units you can fry an egg on... the heat they produce has been ledgendary in the AVR world. I say "has" because the
X08/XX8 models and the X09/XX09 models seem to have decreased their BTU outputs. No scientific study, no facts or sources to quote... just the comments from many posters here that have upgraded their Onkyo's over the last 2 years and remarked on the facts they can now place their hands on the tops of their new units and not need a trip to the Burn Unit when the AVR had been playing reference level movies/music for a significant length of time.

As far as ventilation & circulation around the unit... Hey! Who didn't read the instruction manual that came with the AVR? It clearly states the minimum requirements these units need for proper ventilation & air circulation... even the units bought at Walmart. (Note to M Code and KidHorn - I'm not dissing you... I have read many of your posts in many different threads, and both of you have my complete respect and appreciation for your valuable contributions here!)

Problem is, even the units that have the proper ventilation and air circulation, even units with additional protection of external fans have problems & failures directly related to heat issues... (not all problems & failures, but a significant number to be sure). Heat has always been the mortal enemy of all electronics.

Onkyo does offer alot of bang for your buck that has made them very attractive the the consumer. I was delighted to find my 708, which allowed me to "play" with 11.2 speaker set up (but at only 7.2 at a time!) so I could experience rears/wides/heights... without having to re-wire (disconnecting and connecting the different speakers) on the back of the AVR. But all that bang for the buck does have to be "paid for" some how/some way.

Onkyo will continue to sell lots of units... its price points for what is offered can be very tempting. But those who have had unpleasant experiences with failed units, and/or customer service nightmares will naturally avoid any future unpleasantness at all costs, and no one can blame them! Some might attempt the Onkyo waters one more time in the hopes the first time was a fluke, simply because of the features offered and the out of pocket cost. Best of luck for all that do! Some might have been fortunate to have a flawless unit (or have a history of several flawless units) and would happily give their cash to Onkyo when they purchase their next upgrade, and no one should fault these people either.

Personnally, when I do upgrade to a 9.2 AVR that is capable of doing 11.2 with external amps, (and I'm anxiously awaiting to see the Denon 4313 specs and MSRP) I will consider the equivalent Onkyo/Integra models, but honestly, they will have to practically give me the thing for pennies on the dollar, to settle the uneasy feeling that I have just been "fooled me twice"
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post #47 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

*fixed*

I received the 1009 free replacement last month.
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post #48 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

I say "has" because the
X08/XX8 models and the X09/XX09 models seem to have decreased their BTU outputs. No scientific study, no facts or sources to quote... just the comments from many posters here that have upgraded their Onkyo's over the last 2 years and remarked on the facts they can now place their hands on the tops of their new units and not need a trip to the Burn Unit when the AVR had been playing reference level movies/music for a significant length of time.

Very true, my new 1009 runs MUCH cooler than the failed 1007 it replaced.
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post #49 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 08:29 AM
 
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I have been wondering what Gibson will bring to the table. Perhaps improving customer service is a priority for them.
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post #50 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

I have been wondering what Gibson will bring to the table. Perhaps improving customer service is a priority for them.

It would just be for marketing. The problem is, if Onkyo doesn't step up their quality control, Gibsons name is going to pay the price for it since they want to handle the USA market. Gibson believes they gain from Onkyos technology.. Onkyo believes they gain from Gibsons marketing... I doubt any quality control issues or customer service improvements are going to be made.

More interesting is this...

Quote:


Perhaps the most interesting of these — and something that would both make good on the promise to free listeners from "compressed music" and be a serious game-changer — was a potential collaboration on a 24/96 online service (described by bothe Juszkiewicz and Otsuki as a "streaming" service), based on Onkyo's Japan-only e-onkyo Music high-rez download shop (which operates along similar lines to HDtracks).

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blo...bson-and-onkyo
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post #51 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

I have been wondering what Gibson will bring to the table. Perhaps improving customer service is a priority for them.

Gibson just announced that they hired the previous president of D&M Holdings (Marantz, Denon, Boston Acoustics, McInstosh) to chart their direction for North America...

Just my $0.02..
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post #52 of 61 Old 03-07-2012, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

It would just be for marketing. The problem is, if Onkyo doesn't step up their quality control, Gibsons name is going to pay the price for it since they want to handle the USA market. Gibson believes they gain from Onkyos technology.. Onkyo believes they gain from Gibsons marketing... I doubt any quality control issues or customer service improvements are going to be made.

That would suggest that either Gibsons is okay with the many unhappy customers, doesn't know about it or is going to do something about it. I think they know the American consumer pretty well, and Onkyo hired them to improve the situation here. Quality control and customer service are big deals in North America. Hiring the previous president of D&M Holdings sounds like a serious attempt.
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post #53 of 61 Old 03-08-2012, 08:44 AM
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+1

When I was looking for an 11.2 receiver I did all my research and decided to buy a NR5008 based on the manual's instructions on 3 different pages that said you could connect 11.2 speakers and then switch between SB/FH, SB/FW and FH/FW by pressing the SP Layout button. As it turns out presssing the button only toggled between two positions not three. The only way you could play the third toggle was by manually changing the speaker connections and choosing a different configuration which meant running Audyssey again.

After months of being told the engineers in Japan were working on the problem the result was nothing, no firmware update to fix the problem. They did at least update the next year's manual to reflect the correct operation of the SP Layout button, it only toggled two choices instead of the three originally claimed.

So I will never buy Onkyo again because you cannot trust their own documentation and because their unwillingness to fix an operational problem with a firmware update.

I hope that the new Denon 4313CI has true 11.2 so I can dump my Onkyo in the trash!

David Ferebee
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post #54 of 61 Old 03-08-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

+1

When I was looking for an 11.2 receiver I did all my research and decided to buy a NR5008 based on the manual's instructions on 3 different pages that said you could connect 11.2 speakers and then switch between SB/FH, SB/FW and FH/FW by pressing the SP Layout button. As it turns out presssing the button only toggled between two positions not three. The only way you could play the third toggle was by manually changing the speaker connections and choosing a different configuration which meant running Audyssey again.

After months of being told the engineers in Japan were working on the problem the result was nothing, no firmware update to fix the problem. They did at least update the next year's manual to reflect the correct operation of the SP Layout button, it only toggled two choices instead of the three originally claimed.

So I will never buy Onkyo again because you cannot trust their own documentation and because their unwillingness to fix an operational problem with a firmware update.

I hope that the new Denon 4313CI has true 11.2 so I can dump my Onkyo in the trash!

11.2 is no big deal, I've heard it. Half the time it does nothing, 45% of the time the sounds are not realistic or logically placed. Heights may add 5% at times to the sonic experience.
Where and when will your unit be kicked to the curb, or just ship it to me
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post #55 of 61 Old 03-09-2012, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

11.2 is no big deal, I've heard it. Half the time it does nothing, 45% of the time the sounds are not realistic or logically placed. Heights may add 5% at times to the sonic experience.
Where and when will your unit be kicked to the curb, or just ship it to me


The actual use of 11.2....I agree. However, I really enjoyed the sound of heights added to the mix. I tried the Wide option, but went with the Height arrangement instead. Hell, anything above 5.1 is matrix sound anyway, but I find Audyssey a great program. In fact, this is one reason that I chose Onkyo over Yamaha. Immersion into a movie was an important feature to me, but at this point, I'm sorry I didn't go with Yamaha's "nearly equal" AVR at 1/4 of the price! (retail). I know that they have some issues too, but not even close to the epic level of failure(s) as Onkyo. Live and learn....
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post #56 of 61 Old 03-10-2012, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Hell, anything above 5.1 is matrix sound anyway,

So you're saying that the Dolby True HD 7.1 soundtrack on Super 8 is matrixed?

Just curious,
SB
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post #57 of 61 Old 03-10-2012, 06:22 AM
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Longterm Onkyo/Integra fan here. The sound is phenomenal BTW.

My observations:

1. All run hot. This is mandatory, I run 4 140mm fans on top of my DTR-70.3 as i did over my TX-NR906. The DHC-80.3 and 9.9 and PR-SC805 before it had one fan over the HDMI board.

2. All my Onkyos have had video board problems. All started losing one or two HDMI inputs over 1-3 years, slower if cooled aggressively. Not the Integras or Onkyo Pros for some reason, but most were processors.

So rule #1 when you get an Onkyo/Integra receiver is you buy 4 140mm fans (processors get one), highly recommend this virtually silent 2-speed Antec True Quiet 140, rests well on silicone feet, 1mm off the surface:
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post #58 of 61 Old 03-10-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by discodol View Post

I hope that the new Denon 4313CI has true 11.2 so I can dump my Onkyo in the trash!

well, since the current 4311 already does, and the 4xxx (when/if released) will be at a significantly higher msrp than the 4311, i think it's probably somewhat safe to say the 4xxx will have 11.2...

i doubt it will have 11 amplification paths though, for reasons discussed in the "new denons..." thread...

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #59 of 61 Old 03-10-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

Longterm Onkyo/Integra fan here. The sound is phenomenal BTW.

My observations:

1. All run hot. This is mandatory, I run 4 140mm fans on top of my DTR-70.3 as i did over my TX-NR906. The DHC-80.3 and 9.9 and PR-SC805 before it had one fan over the HDMI board.

2. All my Onkyos have had video board problems. All started losing one or two HDMI inputs over 1-3 years, slower if cooled aggressively. Not the Integras or Onkyo Pros for some reason, but most were processors.

So rule #1 when you get an Onkyo/Integra receiver is you buy 4 140mm fans (processors get one), highly recommend this virtually silent 2-speed Antec True Quiet 140, rests well on silicone feet, 1mm off the surface:


That's just asinine.... how about getting something that actually works as advertised? A properly installed AVR should not need additional cooling unless the manufacturer did not know what they were doing.

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post #60 of 61 Old 03-10-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

Longterm Onkyo/Integra fan here. The sound is phenomenal BTW.

My observations:

1. All run hot. This is mandatory, I run 4 140mm fans on top of my DTR-70.3 as i did over my TX-NR906. The DHC-80.3 and 9.9 and PR-SC805 before it had one fan over the HDMI board.

2. All my Onkyos have had video board problems. All started losing one or two HDMI inputs over 1-3 years, slower if cooled aggressively. Not the Integras or Onkyo Pros for some reason, but most were processors.

So rule #1 when you get an Onkyo/Integra receiver is you buy 4 140mm fans (processors get one), highly recommend this virtually silent 2-speed Antec True Quiet 140, rests well on silicone feet, 1mm off the surface:


Just strikes me odd that you can be a long term fan when "All my Onkyos have had video board problems." Maybe it is time to try the ice cream from a different tub?

Lot's of low rent stuff stacked up into a medium rent pile.
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