Which one would you buy? Denon AVR3312CI or the Pioneer VSX-53??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Which receiver would you buy and why? I'm currently thinking about buying Denon AVR3312CI or the Pioneer VSX-53??? I would love to hear other peoples thoughts and opinions.
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post #2 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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No help??
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post #3 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 10:25 AM
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I'll give you one completely unscientific opinion which you can take for as much or little as you wish. In my experience (I have used at least a half dozen of each (Pioneer and Denon receivers over the years) in my den and dedicated room. Overall I find the Denon regardless of its settings produces more low end than the Pioneer. Such as when I ran both in my den (level matched without EQ) at night my wife only complained about the bass keeping her awake (blind test with her being in the room directly above ) with the Denon receivers. Also, I found when I used Audyssey's Dynamic EQ at low volume levels I really enjoyed the affect.

Not sure if the Pioneer's menu/volume overlays (VSX-1121-K doesn't) on HDMI or not which might come into play. l like how you can store different EQ settings with the Pioneer and tailor them to your preferences (not sure if the 3312 offers such - I know the lower models don't). I also like how you can save/load your configuration on the Denon to your PC/Mac. It's rather slick.

Networking I don't really get into although I hear good things about Airplay on the Pioneer... however its menus are rather crude looking. Video scaling I tend to bypass as well but from what I have heard both should be more than adequate.

For me it would come down to the following in order...
  • Sound preference (I'm sure I'm wrong so everything sounds the same guys please skip over this post)
  • Features
  • Price
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post #4 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your info.. I was really hoping to get more replies.
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post #5 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:25 PM
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i would buy the denon, simply because i used to be a pioneer ho' and now i am a denon fanboy...

which one has the features you want? other opinions to the contrary ( ), i doubt that in any type of controlled test that they could be differentiated until you apply dsp...

once you apply dsp, then all bets are off...

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post #6 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Thanks for your info.. I was really hoping to get more replies.

non scientific answer and just my opinion. over a decade ago i used denon gears and sometime early 2000 to 2007, i had pioneer elite (fogot the model) and that went prety well, until it blew it's power supply. it cost so much to have it fixed so i decided on another elite ( i get them form BB) and that lasted till 2009. wtf! this models i typically get are prices around 1.5 to 2.5k$ so i know it is not the entry level but more mid-tier.

so finally i switched baclk to denon getting their avr2809ci (i think??) and it still runs great. well my only beef is it is hdmi 1.3a and todays 3D needs 1.4
so i guess it boils down to how much reliability you want vs the refresh cycle of the unit. i also do not use it's amp becuase i have separate external amps (Rotels) to drive my speakers. so it really depends on your plans on how you want to utilize this. also i may want to add, the audessy is more for my liking sound/effects wish vs pioneers
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post #7 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:46 PM
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Get the Denon because of Audyssey
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post #8 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not really sure, lol. I know I will not be playing a lot of music.

On the pioneer what exactly is "Elite Video Processing"
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post #9 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i would buy the denon, simply because i used to be a pioneer ho' and now i am a denon fanboy...

I switch brands just to switch at times. Last week I tried a Denon 2112CI with Audyssey XT in my den and had high hopes. After doing the 8-point calibration I wasn't impressed. Voices were muddled to some degree and changing the Dynamic EQ Offset to 10 didn't help. Now I only do 2.0 in there but I preferred the Denon 1611 (again with EQing).

Regarding replies 99% of them will be based on their dreams, wishes, desires and have very little relevance to your best choice.
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post #10 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I switch brands just to switch at times. Last week I tried a Denon 2112CI with Audyssey XT in my den and had high hopes. After doing the 8-point calibration I wasn't impressed. Voices were muddled to some degree and changing the Dynamic EQ Offset to 10 didn't help. Now I only do 2.0 in there but I preferred the Denon 1611 (again with EQing).

Regarding replies 99% of them will be based on their dreams, wishes, desires and have very little relevance to your best choice.

That's strange because going from MultEQ on a 3310 to MultEQ XT on a 3311 improved dialog for me. I am using a center channel so maybe that's the difference. Did you rerun Audyssey using different mic positions to see if that made a difference? It was not a huge difference for me but I though XT was slightly better for surround and I didn't notice much difference with stereo.
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post #11 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

Did you rerun Audyssey using different mic positions to see if that made a difference?

I ran it through a couple of times and was surprised too. I also tried a Denon AVR-1712 (I check them out before they are installed) with the same result. I have used Audyssey MultEQ on numerous Denons (1611/591)/Marantz (SR6005) and Audyssey EQ with Onkyo (509/609/360) receivers in that room and I think voices sounded roughly the same. At least as far as being heard. Since I am doing 2.0 in there a lot is going on under the hood such as converting 5.1 into two channel. So it might not even be Audyssey related?

Now I'm not saying one sounded better than the other just for my purpose I prefer the dialog to stand out more. In my dedicated room I may have appreciated the presence more.
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post #12 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 07:45 PM
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I have auditioned both and think you honestly cannot go wrong. If you are an apple/iphone guy, I would encourage you to look more closely at the 53. If you're like me and have wife-friendly setups with receivers tucked away in a cabinet or closet, the denon offers an onscreen display overlain on hdmi, which might be critical.

Folks will have their opinion on the superiority of either mcacc or audyssey. audyssey has more control to dial in bass, but I found mcacc more helpful for dialing in dialogue on initial setup. ymmv.

In respects of video processing, i would give the nod to the pioneer.
Connectivity-wise, both are very similar.
I would give raw power nod to the denon, but i would call that negligible.
the pioneer has a thx listening mode, which some folks might see beneficial. thx certification is largely meaningless in my opinion.
denon offers a three year warranty, pioneer two.
pioneer's remote is backlit and learning, but hard to read.
Pioneer is better looking in my opinion. In my opinion, denon (and its higher minded sister marantz) botched the design in 2011. the cheap mid-levels are nearly indistinguishable from the cheapo models. i lament the lost of the minimalist hidden tray of the 3311/4311.
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post #13 of 48 Old 02-29-2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I ran it through a couple of times and was surprised too. I also tried a Denon AVR-1712 (I check them out before they are installed) with the same result. I have used Audyssey MultEQ on numerous Denons (1611/591)/Marantz (SR6005) and Audyssey EQ with Onkyo (509/609/360) receivers in that room and I think voices sounded roughly the same. At least as far as being heard. Since I am doing 2.0 in there a lot is going on under the hood such as converting 5.1 into two channel. So it might not even be Audyssey related?

Now I'm not saying one sounded better than the other just for my purpose I prefer the dialog to stand out more. In my dedicated room I may have appreciated the presence more.

You can't say these things about audyssey! Do you know audyssey is the end all be all.
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post #14 of 48 Old 03-01-2012, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so I when to best buy last night and listed to 2 receiver's Pioneer-VSX-53, Denon- AVR3312CI

Listing to both receiver's at equal volumes. (From what the best Guy said) I definitely think the denon was way cleaner and had a really impressive sound to it overall. On the downside the explosion scenes were really weak I thought. Now the Pioneer was loud as hell. Definitely not as clean sounding as the denon. It almost seems too aggressive. I hope that makes sense. But the explosion scene sounded great on the pioneer. It's just so hard to tell in the store which I like better.

Does anyone else feel that the denon is lacking in the action area??
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post #15 of 48 Old 03-01-2012, 04:48 AM
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Note that both reveivers at BB has not been calibrated using the Mic. Can't speak for the Pioneer but after Audessey calibration with the Denon, it even sounds better. The bass will be louder and sound even better. If you think the Denon sounds better at BB, it will sound better at your home after running Audessey calibration which not only measures all your speakers distances, set your crossovers but also apply equalization to all speakers (sub include) based on your room acoustic. What I also like about the Denon is dynamic volume which makes night viewing so much more enjoyable without waking up my kids. Denon has 3 yrs warranty but if you have a credit card like mine, it gives an additional year for a total of 4 yrs warranty. By the end of the 4 yrs warranty, i will probably upgrade again and craiglist my 3312.
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post #16 of 48 Old 03-01-2012, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Good information. . So the pioneer won't calibrate the living room as good as the denon? Correct?
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post #17 of 48 Old 03-01-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Good information. . So the pioneer won't calibrate the living room as good as the denon? Correct?

Define "as well"
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post #18 of 48 Old 03-01-2012, 05:05 AM
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I do not know as i do not own Pioneer. What I do know is that the Denon 3312 also calibrates your sub which is important, Pioneer does not.
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post #19 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Soo, I plan on buying this weekend. Think I'm leaning more towards the denon. Anyone have some last minute advice?
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post #20 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:08 AM
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I've been looking at these and several other models as well trying to decide which is better suited for my needs and came up with something totally different. ( pioneer elite sc-55 and anti mode 8033) but strictly between these 2 I would get the denon, mulit eq XT is better at eqing with a single sub where as mcacc isn't really suited for eqing a sub. If you have or are planning on running dual subs you may want to look at something with XT32 and spring for that. Or do what I plan on doing and go with a powerful receiver and get anti mode or another sub eq. Just food for thought, I know that I chose something that should in theory keep me set for the forseeable future.
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post #21 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:12 AM
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^^^

if you are planning on buying a sc-55 and an 8033, you really should look into a denon 4311...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #22 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

if you are planning on buying a sc-55 and an 8033, you really should look into a denon 4311...

I have been, and its really really tempting, but I can't find the right price on it to compete with the price I can get the pio and antimode for... And I'm still looking for a place that has the 4311 that I can fiddle with. I really really really want to try XT32
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post #23 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoatLantern View Post

I have been, and its really really tempting, but I can't find the right price on it to compete with the price I can get the pio and antimode for... And I'm still looking for a place that has the 4311 that I can fiddle with. I really really really want to try XT32

Its gotta be getting close, its down to $1300 delivered.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1388717&page=2
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post #24 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:30 AM
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^^^

make a phone call to electronics expo... the avs store usually has reasonably decent pricing as well, but probably not as good as ee...

unfortunately, not too many shops have them set up, and the ones that do, are unlikely to have them set up right...

- chris

 

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post #25 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the denon 4311 honestly that much better than the denon 3312?? I mean what's the biggest differences between the two other than more power?
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post #26 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:46 AM
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^^^

yes...

and it's not really because of "more power"... the "killer feature" is the dsp...

there's other stuff (11.2 processing, etc.)...

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post #27 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoexxl View Post

Is the denon 4311 honestly that much better than the denon 3312?? I mean what's the biggest differences between the two other than more power?

XT32, which will independently EQ two subs, and has better resolution than XT. The 4311 also has an excellent amp section, but I think XT32 is the real difference.
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post #28 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 08:47 AM
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^^
mutiXT and MultiXT32
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post #29 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Think I might go to best buy today and compare the two denons. Kinda do the blindfold test on myself see if I can hear differences between the two. Lol
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post #30 of 48 Old 03-02-2012, 09:06 AM
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BB does not have the 4311.
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