R972 Trinnov User Notes - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 649 Old 04-07-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

Curt,

Does the +6db bass file add more gain to the receiver thereby needing less gain in the sub? I have a sub that has an auto on feature and was wondering if adding the +6db file would help the signal received by the sub to activate the auto on feature quicker.

While I'm not Curt, I can answer your question.. Tbe bass files change the subwoofer level, only. The +6 dB file is the same as if you turned your sub up by 6dB relative to the file labelled "flat". So it does increase the feed to the subwoofer. This could result in your being able to turn the subwoofer down or could simply make it more accurate depending, of course, on the level before.

Jeff
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post #632 of 649 Old 04-11-2014, 08:39 AM
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Hi Curt,

If you are still around, I have a couple of questions regarding 9.1 Earlier you mentioned that in this configuration you would recommend 2 speakers be attached to each side and the rears be run in front-side (high?). Regarding the two speakers placed on each side, would it be better if one is on the side and the other is high on rear each side or is it preferable that one be on the side and the other placed on the rear for each side. I.e is it better if the second set of speakers is placed high on the rear or should it be around the same height as the side speaker.

Also, the rears that are being reoriented to the front, is it best to place them higher than the mains and to the side of them?

Thanks for any insights.

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post #633 of 649 Old 04-11-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Hi Curt,

If you are still around, I have a couple of questions regarding 9.1 Earlier you mentioned that in this configuration you would recommend 2 speakers be attached to each side and the rears be run in front-side (high?). Regarding the two speakers placed on each side, would it be better if one is on the side and the other is high on rear each side or is it preferable that one be on the side and the other placed on the rear for each side. I.e is it better if the second set of speakers is placed high on the rear or should it be around the same height as the side speaker.

Also, the rears that are being reoriented to the front, is it best to place them higher than the mains and to the side of them?

Thanks for any insights.

 

Hi Raul GS

 

All of this depends on what you are listening to- movies or music- and your room configuration: room shape, where are listeners, how many, etc.  The possible choices depend on many factors I believe should be taken into account. Speaker placement using Trinnov Remapping would be great seminar topic.  If you or any others would like recommendations regarding a particular configuration, I suggest you PM me.


___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

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post #634 of 649 Old 04-25-2014, 02:25 PM
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I continue to get 0 hz for my -6 db point. I know the speakers should be somewhere around 100 hz, definitely not 0.
I tried the user notes and couldn't find anything and read all 22 pages of this thread.
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post #635 of 649 Old 04-25-2014, 02:27 PM
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Another thing, I have read many of the comments about "Audiophile 1", but I haven't seen a description of what is happening. With manufacturing variance and room placement interaction, the left speaker and right speaker will not be equal, so what does Trinnov choose as the target curve?
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post #636 of 649 Old 04-25-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlseverance View Post

I continue to get 0 hz for my -6 db point. I know the speakers should be somewhere around 100 hz, definitely not 0.
I tried the user notes and couldn't find anything and read all 22 pages of this thread.
I'm not sure that is the -6dB point, but the crossover point is chosen in conjunction with the upper end rolloff for the sub.

Do you have a subwoofer? What is displayed for the subwoofer?

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post #637 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 09:09 AM
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No sub.

Full range left and right, satellite center, left and right surrounds.
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post #638 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rlseverance View Post

No sub.

Full range left and right, satellite center, left and right surrounds.
Then the 0 hz is correct as there is no crossover.

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post #639 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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So I did not understand the analysis that the Trinnov software was doing.

Along with picking a crossover point, I thought the software was determining a -6 db point for bass management, in my case, to send any bass content from the center or surrounds to the front left and right speakers.

So do I just lose any bass mixed into the center channel, surrounds, and/or the LFE channel?

To me that wouldn't make sense to design it that way, but I don't know.
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post #640 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlseverance View Post

So I did not understand the analysis that the Trinnov software was doing.

Along with picking a crossover point, I thought the software was determining a -6 db point for bass management, in my case, to send any bass content from the center or surrounds to the front left and right speakers.

So do I just lose any bass mixed into the center channel, surrounds, and/or the LFE channel?

To me that wouldn't make sense to design it that way, but I don't know.
To be honest, I am not sure how the R972 handles this situation. Perhaps you can find a test disc of some sort and experiment.

Perhaps someone who does know will chime in.

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post #641 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 10:34 AM
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Beats me whether the R-972 version of Trinnov redirects bass to speakers with a lower (better) detected -6db level from those with a higher (worse) -6db point, or uses Large speaker settings from before a Trinnov cal in a meaningful way.

If you downloaded REW (Room EQ Wizard) and had a USB/HDMI mic you could run frequency-limited sweeps to try to see whether you were getting "bass holes", and at what Hz.

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #642 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 11:48 AM
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Measurement data from Trinnov is used for TI's standard bass management library.

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post #643 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 01:18 PM
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I don't know how TI's standard bass management library functions.

Richard
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post #644 of 649 Old 04-28-2014, 06:48 PM
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4th order low pass and 2nd order high pass filters at the crossover point specified by Trinnov suite.

Jeff
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post #645 of 649 Old 04-29-2014, 06:09 AM
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Thanks Jeff.

As I stated in an earlier post, I have full range left and right speakers, a small center, left surround and right surround.

No sub.

Trinnov is not picking up a -6 db point for any of the small speakers.

There being no sub, it is not picking a crossover point.

So I am wondering, am I just losing any bass content mixed to center, surround, or LFE channel?

Richard
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post #646 of 649 Old 04-29-2014, 11:20 AM
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The industry standard (and Dolby and DTS requirement) is to re-route bass information from channels where it cannot be reproduced to channels that are low frequency capable. To my knowledge, the R-972 was submitted to and passed both Dolby and DTS certification but I cannot personally verify either. When I was at Sherwood certification submission was handled directly by the factory. Nevertheless, my assumption is that the unit was submitted and accepted.

Jeff
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post #647 of 649 Old 04-29-2014, 12:36 PM
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Thanks Jeff,

I will do more testing and try and figure out what is going on.

I did read all 22 pages of this thread before posting, and didn't find anyone else that couldn't get a -6 db point. So maybe my unit simply isn't working, but that would seem strange, as I get good distance, level and angle readings.

Richard
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post #648 of 649 Old 04-29-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlseverance View Post

Thanks Jeff,

I will do more testing and try and figure out what is going on.

I did read all 22 pages of this thread before posting, and didn't find anyone else that couldn't get a -6 db point. So maybe my unit simply isn't working, but that would seem strange, as I get good distance, level and angle readings.

Richard
It doesn't exactly answer your question, but here is Curt's explanation of how the crossover is calculated:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397757/r972-trinnov-user-notes/480#post_22746399

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post #649 of 649 Old 04-29-2014, 02:26 PM
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Thanks.

I had read that response, but 1. It is for a situation where the -6 db point was determined, and 2, there is a sub, which is not my situation.
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