R972 Trinnov User Notes - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 03:09 PM
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The manual says

Autoroute: Each input channel is routed to the nearest speaker, according to the input stream format and to the ITU standards.

That sounds just like what 2D/3D remapping does, i.e. just point the dot at where you want the center of the soundstage.

How is Autoroute different?

Noah
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post #122 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpoole17 View Post

Curt,

Regarding my 4.1 setup, I have a few follow up questions.

1. As I related in my earlier post, I was able to get the system working with Trinnov using your suggestion of calibrating with the "center" speaker at center rear and then removing that speaker. As I described, I did not notice any significant problems with this configuration. However, as I thought about it, I began to wonder about scenarios where problems might arise such as: if a signal is present in both rear channels of a 5.1 soundtrack with approximately equal loudness, would it be mapped to the missing speaker and be lost? Similarly, if a source has a discrete 6.1 or 7.1 soundtrack, would those additional channels (or a portion of them) be lost?

Yes, theoretically. It would have to be a center rear phantom image. Rear info in 6.1 would be interesting. Would be good test.

Quote:


2. If the answers above are yes, could the issue be mitigated by vertically displacing the speaker at center rear (say by placing it on the floor); then re-calibrating, disconnecting that speaker, and setting spatial to 3d? In other words, would the 3d remapping attempt to "pull up" that missing speaker by sending (some portion of) the signal to the remaining rear speakers?

Yes, Could try it. Would need the plane of the mic in line with the upper speakers. I'm looking into best place to locate center to have minimum effect on remapping- essentially using the center only to tell the system there are 5 speakers, so that it will properly use Trinnov remapping.

Quote:


3. Do the results of the tests I performed earlier indicate that Trinnov, or at least this implementation of it, is not compatible with a 4.1 setup? Or is there something peculiar about my system that is keeping Trinnov from mapping the channels properly?

Thanks again for all of your support!
Chris

For the R972 we have discovered now both 3 and 4 speaker setups confuse the processor (3 speakers > processor goes to stereo). The microcontroller is expecting Trinnov to report 2 or 5-7 speakers. I expect this to be consistent with all units. If one is considering 3-4 speakers, 5 will need to be connected, if only temporarily, to get remapping. If one wants a configuration of only 3 fronts L/C/R, to remap stereo or front only surround, it will require connecting more then 3 speakers during cal. Both will be reported in the User Notes as known issues.

Cheers,

___________
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Trinnov Audio
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post #123 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

The microcontroller is expecting Trinnov to report 2 or 5-7 speakers.

How about this for Chris:

To two of the unused channels connect an identical pair of surrounds right next to them.

Location will be close, and if wired in series sensitivity will be the same.

Noah
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post #124 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Curt, I’d appreciate feedback on the following plan for speaker placement.

The surrounds are now as shown in the pic; left side speakers mirror the right.

I put the side surrounds where they are because it’s close to what the ITU/972 manual recommends, and so Trinnov wouldn’t have to work so hard to re-map them.

But now, after your additional explanations and ensuing discussion, I wonder if a more useful way to think about it is that Trinnov will try to create phantom images where they belong over 360 deg azimuth (not sure about the very back though).

Therefore it would be better to have more even angular spacing of the surrounds, which I could do by moving the sides from the back edge of the fireplace to the front.

Is that about right?

Yes you could try it. Also- the mic in the pic looks too far forward, as its 3-4 ft in front of listening position.

Quote:


Another possibility, which would give me back two of the speakers I removed after the Denon 4311:

- Use a phantom center to free up one channel (assuming I don’t have the same issue as Chris).

You won't have Chris' issue because you have the minimum 5 speakers connected for surround remapping.
Quote:


- Connect the two surround back speakers to one amp channel, freeing up another one

Yes, I would give this a try- when cal, aim the speakers directly at mic if needed to get a good cal, then aim away if you like. Same for sides. Keep in mind, as you aim away, the hi's will roll off or vice versa. For film, not so bad to rolloff, ITU (music) you want to keep them aiming at listener to maintain EQ.

Quote:


- Use the two newly available channels for a pair of front speakers, located at the former Audyssey DSX wides' locations at 60 deg azimuth from the center speaker and about a foot above ear height, or at the former Audyssey DSX heights locations' at45 deg azimuth from the center speaker and 45 deg elevation from the listening position (see pic), or somewhere in between.

I see pic, but not the spkr with 45 azmith, 45 elevation.

Quote:


Speaking of height channels, the user notes say

"Trinnov 9.1 with height

Some of you want more channels, up to 9.1- typically to fill in long rectangular rooms. The best way to accommodate
more channels such as 9.1 is to share the side outputs with two speakers each, thereby leaving the rear outputs for use
as height channels in the front."

To be clear, this is intended only to correct soundstage height errors, as with a below-screen center speaker, not to expand the soundstage height as with DPL IIz or Audyssey DSX - right?

SPATIALITY

You are on the right track, but the answer is not so simple as we imagine. Some like to say Trinnov creates imaginary speakers. We don't. We create cohesive spatial images based on existing speaker locations. An example: lets consider a soundtrack has a pinpoint sound at 60degees right. If you want to hear that sound with spatial accuracy and there is no speaker there, say they are where they should be at 30 and 120 deg= 90 deg apart. You'd have to be in exact the sweet spot to hear the image correctly. Move sideways to the image and it will shift accordingly (like a stereo image would) because the speakers creating the image are widely spaced. Now consider what happens if you place a speaker at 60 degrees with Trinnov spatial correction. Trinnov places the spatial sound created for 60 deg there, and one can move beyond the sweet spot and still correctly hear it. Place the speakers where you want high spatial accuracy. Within the limitations of the variables, you'll get it.

A very interesting thing happens when no speaker duplicates the original content's placement: the image floats. Example you are about to try: 4 speakers across the front. Image content is +22/0/-22 degrees. Speakers placed at +40/+15/-15/-40 could be very interesting. It's an alternative the "W" discussed in the User Notes.

Where the content has specific height information- a decoder is required. Where one is comparing playback formats with synthesized channels, be it Yamaha or others, by all means, examine the possibilities with Trinnov. With 3D we do use a form of height to build the image. Placing height channels with Trinnov will give a sense of vertical openness/space and it's very effective. In the real world, we don't listen to sounds in only one plane, its 3D.

This should answer your question in your later post regarding the difference between autoroute and 2D/3D. Autoroute has no spatial manipulation other then locating speakers and fixing mis-cabled systems where 2D/3D is not used.

___________
Curt Hoyt
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post #125 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 07:47 PM
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Is there a way to verify that the additional bass curves were loaded correctly into Trinnov? I updated the FW and reset and re-ran Trinnov. The bass seems better. Is there a way to select between the Flat, +3 and +6 curves? Are the curves visible somewhere in the setup menu though?

Thanks,
Matt
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post #126 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

Yes you could try it. Also- the mic in the pic looks too far forward, as its 3-4 ft in front of listening position.

I moved the couch back to reduce reflections from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

You won't have Chris' issue because you have the minimum 5 speakers connected for surround remapping.

Yes, whew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

I see pic, but not the spkr with 45 azmith, 45 elevation.

Oops, see attached pic of where the heights/wides used to be.

SPATIALITY

....[thanks for what I snipped, Curt, it all helps]

A very interesting thing happens when no speaker duplicates the original content's placement: the image floats. Example you are about to try: 4 speakers across the front. Image content is +22/0/-22 degrees. Speakers placed at +40/+15/-15/-40 could be very interesting. It's an alternative the "W" discussed in the User Notes.[/quote]

I'm not sure I get it; is "floats" different than a phantom image?

Or maybe you mean what I experienced with my first 972 and what I think others have described - the sound is experienced as a palpable 3D entity in space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

With 3D we do use a form of height to build the image. Placing height channels with Trinnov will give a sense of vertical openness/space and it's very effective.

Could you elaborate on the first sentence?

Might this mean that I needn't worry about this:

One option is to put heights back were they were, and the side surrounds where the wides were, which are much lower, which might cause a front-rear pan to zig-zag vertically as it moves across the room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

Autoroute ha s no spatial manipulation other then locating speakers and fixing mis-cabled systems where 2D/3D is not used.

OK, that clears up Autoroute, but did I misunderstand that 2D/3D Remapping also does this, or do they assume that the speakers are at least in the right order?

Thanks a million, Curt. Trinnov has got to be the most interesting audio technology out there!
LL

Noah
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post #127 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 10:11 PM
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The idea is to use a MiniDSP or other EQ/XO to actively XO the L/R to two subs, with the low freq combined to have predictable interaction/mode control of the subs.

The MiniDSP has real-time control of response shaping, which after adjusting to taste would be duplicated in the surrounds by setting Trinnov EQ to A.Phile 1 : To adjust the frequency response of the speakers other than the front speakers to match the characteristics of the front speakers.

I believe remapping would not be affected, but presumably EQ is not done on the crucial fronts.

This segues into a question I have about phase correction.

Trinnov uses both FIR and IIR to correct the loudspeaker in the room, compensating for amplitude, phase and early reflections.

In the above scheme would Trinnov still correct phase even though it doesn't EQ?

Or can phase not be corrected independently?

And a more general question about phase: Let's say there's a Linkwitz-Riley XO between mid/woofer and tweeter.

If I understand correctly, this means that the drivers sum in phase with each other in the XO region, but the phase is shifted from what it is outside of it.

Does Trinnov correct this when it applies EQ?

Back to the above scheme, I believe there's another benefit: Trinnov will match the two subs' response and phase because they're now part of the R/L's which will be so treated - right?

And in my particular case it gets even better.

I have a MiniDSP which I use to pre-match my two very different subs - one is sealed with two Maelstrom-X 18 drivers, the other is a Danley DTS-10 tapped horn.

I've got their amplitude responses pretty well smooth and matched, but the horn has a pretty wild phase response (though I guess improved by amplitude response correction), but I'd think Trinnov would improve on what I did manually.

Upping the ante con$iderably, though still much less than alternatives, would be to do the above with the Trinnov ST2-Pro.

Noah
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post #128 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 10:16 PM
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Curt, in case you missed this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

When setting up for a phantom center, does the importance of getting within 1 deg horizontal transfer to now getting the L/R within 1 deg of the same horizontal angle?

BTW, how closely do the vertical angles of the L/R need to be matched?

Hopefully not a big deal for the surrounds, as every further angular constraint exponentially increases the difficulty of achieving them simultaneously.

Noah
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post #129 of 649 Old 03-15-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

Correct reporting for Sub is distance and level only. Anyone getting the Trinnov Cal Data, first page, to report Sub at 90 deg horizontal?

Yes.

It occurred to me that biamping the front L/R would leave the sub channel unused, so I tried hooking up one of my fronts to my sub amp to see if it would be treated like just another free channel.

Nope – it only gets a low freq test tone.

Not that it matters, as Trinnov seems to ignore any and all manual settings, but I turned the sub off in speaker configuration (which in answer to someone else’s question is done by going into Speaker Config/XO Freq and setting the fronts to Full).

I got a subwoofer angle of 90 (I forget if it was horizontal or vertical); also that happened once during one of my normal setup attempts.

Also interesting is that it said the -6 dB is 19 Hz, whereas I know it’s ~100 Hz for that speaker in that location.

Even more interesting is that 19 Hz is what it gives for my actual subs (which are EQ'd flat to about 14 Hz), and it stayed 19 Hz when I EQ’d in an additional 4 dB hump centered at 16 Hz.

So apparently the sub’s reported -6 dB freq is not right, though I don’t see that it matters; either you EQ and measure to make it what you want, or it just is what it is.

Noah
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post #130 of 649 Old 03-16-2012, 08:40 AM
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Curt has asked that I re-post, here, my post re: measurements from the Users thread, so here 'tis....

As promised, below are FR plots showing:

1) 0dB/+3dB/+6dB Curves and
2) Flat/Natural/Aphile1/Aphile2 Curves

Some caveats:

These were measured in a friend's 2.1 channel system - Martin Logan Prodigy mains (Big! dipole line source) + Velo DD-15 sub - measuring left channel only + sub. Although the room has been reasonably well-treated with various ASC and RealTraps products, there's no avoiding room response and others' results will certainly vary. Still, the general trends should be useful.

We also experimented with loading 0dB into position 1, calibrating, then +3dB into position 2, calibrating, and finally +6dB into position 3, calibrating, all with no reset. We had hoped that we might be able to "keep" all three curves by saving them into different positions. Unfortunately, it appears that, position aside, once you load a new curve via USB, all previous curves are overwritten.

Thanks to Sanjay and Ivan for their assistance, and to Greg, the long suffering owner, who put up with our shenanigans for many hours over a two day period.
LL
LL
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post #131 of 649 Old 03-16-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Curt has asked that I re-post, here, my post re: measurements from the Users thread, so here 'tis....

As promised, below are FR plots showing:

1) 0dB/+3dB/+6dB Curves and
2) Flat/Natural/Aphile1/Aphile2 Curves

Some caveats:

These were measured in a friend's 2.1 channel system - Martin Logan Prodigy mains (Big! dipole line source) + Velo DD-15 sub - measuring left channel only + sub. Although the room has been reasonably well-treated with various ASC and RealTraps products, there's no avoiding room response and others' results will certainly vary. Still, the general trends should be useful.

We also experimented with loading 0dB into position 1, calibrating, then +3dB into position 2, calibrating, and finally +6dB into position 3, calibrating, all with no reset. We had hoped that we might be able to "keep" all three curves by saving them into different positions. Unfortunately, it appears that, position aside, once you load a new curve via USB, all previous curves are overwritten.

Thanks to Sanjay and Ivan for their assistance, and to Greg, the long suffering owner, who put up with our shenanigans for many hours over a two day period.

Thanks for taking the time to do this! Very much appreciated.

-curtis

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post #132 of 649 Old 03-16-2012, 10:39 AM
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RUR, thanks for the plots.

I'm puzzled that A.Phile 1 is so similar to the others, as the manual says that it matches the surrounds to them, which I thought meant that it doesn't EQ them.

Curt/Jeff, can you clarify this?

Noah
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post #133 of 649 Old 03-16-2012, 06:44 PM
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If I understand things he is doing a single channel (left +sub)

flat is doing a slight boost in the room from measurement
natural is a bass boost, 10k cut
aphile1 one should do nothing as its a left main+sub, not a surround channel
aphile 2 should only modify under 200hz

The 10k cut in natural must be relative to flat or it would be lower than aphile 1 and 2.

Seems to be legit...maybe I am missing something.

aphile 1 and 2 being identical except under 200hz tells me its not messing with things as per the manual...

THANKS for the graphs! I can hear this, but easier to see it.

REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #134 of 649 Old 03-17-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

...Upping the ante con$iderably, though still much less than alternatives, would be to do the above with the Trinnov ST2-Pro.

Noah, armed with an ST-2 Pro in my system, I'm not seeing much phase improvement in the subs, but phase rotation in the mains, including at the Martin Logan woof/ES panel crossover point, is hugely improved. How well this translates for the 972 only Curt or Jeff can answer, but I'm told that the software is very similar sans user adjustability. Furthermore, what's happening with phase in my subs (SubMersive, f112) may not be representative and I really need to engage Mark and Curt to find out if/how to improve this. If you'd like to continue this discussion within the context of the ST-2 Pro, it's probably best to move it to the Trinnov thread in the 20K forum.

Ken
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post #135 of 649 Old 03-17-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

We also experimented with loading 0dB into position 1, calibrating, then +3dB into position 2, calibrating, and finally +6dB into position 3, calibrating, all with no reset. We had hoped that we might be able to "keep" all three curves by saving them into different positions. Unfortunately, it appears that, position aside, once you load a new curve via USB, all previous curves are overwritten.

Thanks to Sanjay and Ivan for their assistance, and to Greg, the long suffering owner, who put up with our shenanigans for many hours over a two day period.

Right after our unsuccessful attempt at saving multiple curves on Greg's receiver, Ivan and I went over to Manoj's place, where he demonstrated that he apparently had two different curves (+3dB and +6dB) saved to different positions, confirmed by his measurements and our listening. I don't know if Manoj is using different steps to save the curves or whether there is some unit to unit variation in firmware that allows his receiver to do this. If anyone else has been successful in saving more than one curve, please chime in.

Sanjay
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post #136 of 649 Old 03-17-2012, 02:37 PM
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Has anyone gotten Trinnov to work (ie. find the damn speakers within 3 bursts) with Martin Logan Electromotion Speakers? This is about as frustrated as I have ever been with a piece of electronic equipment. Auto room correction with the new Pioneer Elites, Anthem MRX's, and the Denon 4311...no issues finding and eq'ing these speakers. I'd really be pissed if I paid what Sherwood originally tried to sell these things at.

I'm going to call Sherwood to see if I can get the most update DSP Flash. On the other R-972 thread there was a poster that listed the latest software for the receiver and of course Accessories4less sent me one with old DSP Flash software. I've raked these speakers to vertical per Curt, played with the toe-in and distance, mic angle etc. 12+ hours spent and can't get the two front speaker to both be found in 3 bursts or less. Combine this with audio lag and HDMI handshake issues and no wonder Sherwood had a crapload sitting in their warehouse.
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post #137 of 649 Old 03-18-2012, 01:40 AM
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PGriff1051:

You do not need to have the speakers found in "3 bursts or less". You need to have them found in 9 bursts or less. 10 tries is the default for the program to say, "I can't locate this speaker to my satisfaction and must move on". When the data acquisition attempts are complete, the Trinnov results will be reported by the OSD. If you have both vertical and horizontal angles reported for all channels except the subwoofer, then the data acquisition was successful. Even if Trinnov cannot find all of the speakers, the R-972 can still apply the room EQ to your system. While full speaker discovery is required to use the remapping functions, the room EQ alone is very effective.

Jeff
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post #138 of 649 Old 03-18-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGriff1051 View Post

Auto room correction with the new Pioneer Elites, Anthem MRX's, and the Denon 4311...no issues finding and eq'ing these speakers.

Finding speaker locations is something only Trinnov can do. Jeff has it correct- while not finding the speakers, you can still get Trinnov EQ correction per Jeff's instruction. And when you do, the correction is more comprehensive then is available in the other units.

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post #139 of 649 Old 03-18-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

The idea is to use a MiniDSP or other EQ/XO to actively XO the L/R to two subs, with the low freq combined to have predictable interaction/mode control of the subs.

The MiniDSP has real-time control of response shaping, which after adjusting to taste would be duplicated in the surrounds by setting Trinnov EQ to A.Phile 1 : To adjust the frequency response of the speakers other than the front speakers to match the characteristics of the front speakers.

I believe remapping would not be affected, but presumably EQ is not done on the crucial fronts.

Audiophile 1 for listeners with full-range left and right speakers that want the voicing of those speakers preserved: correction below 300 on all speakers (room behavior), plus amplitude correction of center and surrounds to L/R using both IIR + FIR.

Audiophile 2 corrects only the low frequencies on all channels below 300 Hz, IIR only.


Quote:


can phase not be corrected independently?

It can, in the full version Trinnov systems.


Quote:


And a more general question about phase: Let's say there's a Linkwitz-Riley XO between mid/woofer and tweeter.

If I understand correctly, this means that the drivers sum in phase with each other in the XO region, but the phase is shifted from what it is outside of it.

Does Trinnov correct this when it applies EQ?

Back to the above scheme, I believe there's another benefit: Trinnov will match the two subs' response and phase because they're now part of the R/L's which will be so treated - right?

You may be referring o the 2nd order, where tweet polarity is reversed and is in many cases corrected by a phase shift network. In any case, Trinnov will attempt to correct phase. Of course, correction can be non-optimal from a poorly implemented speaker be it the drivers or xover, or the room. It's all relative, and it illustrates the improvement of correction relative to the speaker design and room acoustic. Using better speakers with superior polar characteristics and a room with acoustic treatment will work with correction to provide superior results.

Where full range exists, regardless how it is formed (active or passive), it will be corrected as such.

Quote:


I have a MiniDSP which I use to pre-match my two very different subs - one is sealed with two Maelstrom-X 18 drivers, the other is a Danley DTS-10 tapped horn.

I've got their amplitude responses pretty well smooth and matched, but the horn has a pretty wild phase response (though I guess improved by amplitude response correction), but I'd think Trinnov would improve on what I did manually.

Upping the ante considerably, though still much less than alternatives, would be to do the above with the Trinnov ST2-Pro.

R972 Trinnov would attempt to improve what you had done manually. If it could be measured, one could make gross adjustments manually and expect Trinnov to attain higher resolution correction. It's not necessarily trivial to do, and mistakes could be made, particularly if no measurements are available. The ST2-Pro would greatly add the benefit of lots of user data for making decisions about target curves and how much correction is implemented, as well as being able to measure as many points in the room as you like for reference.

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post #140 of 649 Old 03-22-2012, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings All:

Some information you may all find useful during your Trinnov Cals: Trinnov calibrates by sending a series of noise bursts to the loudspeakers. The bursts are in sets of three. The algorithm is comparing the three bursts for consistency. If there isn't consistency, the bursts are repeated. Anything could cause a repeat: ultrasonic noise, a change in the acoustic field, etc. The point is if the calibration is captured in any of the three sets of bursts, it is good- and it's based solely on the last three bursts, not the whole series.

Conclusion: if some speakers take 3, 6, or 9 bursts total, don't dismiss the accuracy of the calibration. Look at the results. If they look good, they are.

Cheers and happy listening.

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post #141 of 649 Old 03-23-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

Greetings All:

Some information you may all find useful during your Trinnov Cals: Trinnov calibrates by sending a series of noise bursts to the loudspeakers. The bursts are in sets of three. The algorithm is comparing the three bursts for consistency. If there isn't consistency, the bursts are repeated. Anything could cause a repeat: ultrasonic noise, a change in the acoustic field, etc. The point is if the calibration is captured in any of the three sets of bursts, it is good- and it's based solely on the last three bursts, not the whole series.

Conclusion: if some speakers take 3, 6, or 9 bursts total, don't dismiss the accuracy of the calibration. Look at the results. If they look good, they are.

Cheers and happy listening.

That is good to know; some of my speakers are taking six bursts.

Does Receiver volume level setting (before calibration) make any differenc e?

Jim
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post #142 of 649 Old 03-23-2012, 07:57 AM
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My R972 is being shipped and I'm trying to get ready by reading as much as I can before it arrives. On page 63 of the owner's manual it states : "7. To perform the Auto Setup Trinnov Optimizer at other listening position, repeat the above the steps 1 ~ 6."

Is there a reason to run Auto Setup from more than one position? If so, how does that work? I was planning on running from a spot between where my wife and I normally sit.

Thanks,
Bob
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post #143 of 649 Old 03-23-2012, 08:14 AM
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RPTBob:

The R-972 can only use 1 position at a time. It does not average multiple positions. What you could do is take 1 set of measurements midway between the two seats and save that as Position 1. Take a second set of measurements from your seat and save that as Position 2. Then take a 3rd set of measurements from your wife's seat and save that as Position 3.

When both you and your wife are in the room use Position 1. When you are listening alone, use Position 2. If your wife is listening alone, she could use Position 3.

Jeff
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post #144 of 649 Old 03-24-2012, 05:44 PM
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My R-972 is on the way. Have a speaker set-up question. I currently have 4 Magnepan MMG-Ws and a MMG-C. The MMG-Ws are approximately 10" wide and 38" tall, mounted to the wall. I'm using a projector with a 100" diag screen.

I'm considering getting another set of MMG-Ws for front wide speakers. I could stagger the height of the speakers so one set is set to align with the top of the screen and the other set with the bottom of the screen, leaving an overlap of the two sets in the middle.

Any thoughts on what would result after 3-D mapping?

Thanks,
Bob
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post #145 of 649 Old 03-25-2012, 04:38 AM
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What are the angles Trinnov is trying to recreate, horizontally and vertically, for a 7.x setup?
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post #146 of 649 Old 03-25-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

What are the angles Trinnov is trying to recreate, horizontally and vertically, for a 7.x setup?

I don't know if the 972 displayed its choices, but the pro units offer some options. There's a 7.1 with what looks like 22.5, 110, 150 degrees for L/R, Surr, Rear pairs. And there might be another with the L/R at 30 deg. But there was no offering for the "defacto industry 7.1" layout that THX, Dolby, DTS all agree on, which is 30, 90, 150. Perhaps in a future software update?

Roger

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post #147 of 649 Old 03-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I don't know if the 972 displayed its choices, but the pro units offer some options. There's a 7.1 with what looks like 22.5, 110, 150 degrees for L/R, Surr, Rear pairs. And there might be another with the L/R at 30 deg. But there was no offering for the "defacto industry 7.1" layout that THX, Dolby, DTS all agree on, which is 30, 90, 150. Perhaps in a future software update?

Roger, what are the height angles for the sides and surrounds?
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post #148 of 649 Old 03-25-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Roger, what are the height angles for the sides and surrounds?

I never checked the Elevation screen to find out.

Roger

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post #149 of 649 Old 03-26-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Elevation

Elevation (height angles) for all media is assumed to be in the plane of the cal mic- listening height.

THX/Dolby/DTS 7.1 Layout: +/- 0,30, 90, & 150 degrees

The closest setting to this on the R972 with 7.1 content, is to set REMAP=MUSIC. The Trinnov remap assumption for this is +/- 0, 30, 110, & 150 degrees, with no updates to the R972 planned. While we are aware of this format, we also are aware of a major film studio that masters DVD/Blu Ray at 110, not the mentioned 90. In any case, error to the side is negligible, as cinema mixes assume some latitude in placement to sides and rear.

For those with dedicated Trinnov based systems, this layout assumption may be manually programmed for use, but is not currently available as a standard. This and other formats may be released on the dedicated Trinnov units (not R972) in a future update.

Cheers,

___________
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post #150 of 649 Old 03-28-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quick question about the +3 and +6 curves.

I have the files, but Sherwood states that the R-972 must be reset after loading up the file to the AVR.

I am happy with the way my R-972 is set up now, but wouldn't mind trying the curves, IF I do not have to reset and remeasure all over again. Otherwise it's not worth it to me.

My understanding is that no reset is needed after applying a new curve.

Can someone answer definitively as to the need to reset and recalibrate after applying the curve?

Also, if I do not like the curves, I can go back to the "standard" curve, right?
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