Denon AVR-3312 inherent problem? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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This is part of a long and unresolved email I had regarding a Denon AVR-3312 I purchased from A4L, but never got and was refunded my money. Afterwards, I went online to blogs, forums, reviews and even contacted Denon USA and spoke to a few people in Sales, Customer Service and Technical Support. Nobody knew or admitted to any issues with the 3312, whether new or refurbished. The first person in the email below, Larry, never responded to my inquiry as to the problem. He only tells me that ALL AVR-3312s have an inherent problem. I contacted Mark, the owner and sales manager of Accessories4less. He tries to convince me that only his units have a problem. Below is a portion of what I received.
Does anybody know what is going on? I am now hesitant to buy a Denon as something smells fishy. I own a 5600, 2801 and 900 AVR receiver and a DVD 600 and 1910. I love my Denon products. I am looking to upgrade my equipment to new Denons with the HDMI 1.4a and such. Any help would be appreciated.
Here is the email section of importance:
March 02, 2012
As for it not being received on Friday, this was something that was unforeseen and not in our control. I was made aware on Friday afternoon that Denon found out that they have an inherit problem with ALL AVR-3312's. In order to avoid shipping units that had an issue with them, they halted the shipment of the 3312's until this was corrected.
Larry Beck accessories4less
800-657-0195 ext. 102 407-409-8024 (direct) 407-409-8007 (fax)
March 07, 2012
In regards to your research that you have done on the 3312 (which only pertains to refurbished units), your information sources or even Denon basic tech support personnel are not in the information loop that we operate in with Denon executive management (not everything is public info or found online).
The issue is real and has happened to a certain quantities of the 3312 we have recently sold. Head of Denon service had us pull our units offline and they are investigating. Until they find a solution to the issues, we have temporally stopped selling this SKU online.
The bottom line is we are not currently selling 3312 until Denon feels confident whatever may have caused these failures has been addressed and resolved. I see no reason to continue this quest for knowledge, as I have disclosed as much information that I can.

Regards, Mark Sabbarese
Sales Manager Accessories4less, Inc. 2590 Clark Street, Suite 3 Apopka, FL 32703
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 12:07 PM
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What are the problem(s) that your having?
You don't say..
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I live remotely, if there is a warranty issue, I will have to ship a heavy item 300 miles to the nearest repair center, on my dime. I would like to know that any inherent issues have been resolved before I make a purchase. If it is going to be a while, due to design issues, I might consider another receiver or brand. Thanks
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 12:19 PM
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First don't buy a refurbished unit if quality is important to you.
Buy local, its costs more, but its does have value.
All brands have there duds, some more then others.
Yamaha seems to hold up, were as onkyo is getting bad press..
Denon seem to be in the middle of the pack.
But only buy a new unit !
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Joe, My concern is, from experience, that inherent problems start with a product and not just with repaired items or floor models that have been refurbed. I would tend to think that whatever ALL these models have in common, to be recalled, has nothing to do with the fact that they are refurbished. I hope I am wrong. The last time I purchased new, it was the 5600. It was locally and the company went out of business. The second Denon was the 2801. I somehow shorted the speakers. I bought it locally, did not tell them I had done the damage. They told me I needed to pay for the shipping, but it was covered under warranty. They shipped it off. Now, I do support my local businesses, but some things I would like to save money on. I will pay the same whether I purchase from Best buy or Directly from Denon. I digress, that is another issue. My concern is still about inherent issues with the 3312. Do you know what it might be? Thanks.
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM
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AFAIK, the only issue with the 3312CI that has yet to be resolved by firmware is video degradation when the "Video Convert" setting is set to ON (which must be set in order for the GUI to overlay the 2D/3D video source). Refer to posts #4 and #6 in the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig for more information on known issues.

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post #7 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello jdsmoothie, I apologize if I appear to be dwelling, but according to the owner of A4L, this is a new issue being investigated, per Denon upper management. They do not have a solution and will not be shipping until the failure has been resolved. I find it difficult to accept that a firmware update has Denon stumped and has involved upper management. I also have to question why it is affecting all refurbished units only, unless the issue of why they were refurbished is part of the underlying problem. These guys would have tried various software and hardware swaps and updates. I do firmware upgrades on both my old and new electronics. No, I suspect something else, and is why I question why it is not being shared. I hope I am wrong. Until I know, I will postpone my purchase. Too expensive to ship a heavy receiver even under warranty. I have never had a problem with a Denon product, that I didn’t cause. By the way, while reviewing which Denon I needed and could afford to purchase, I previously came across your posts; very nice and appreciated. Thanks
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 01:58 PM
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A couple of things to note then .. you can likely purchase the 3312CI at near the same price brand new by "calling" Electronics Expo or AV Science sales which would provide a 3 year warranty vice only 1 buy buying a refurb. Also why do you need the 3312CI at all? Preouts?

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Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I will end up buying new, but will wait until I am satisfied this issue is not a design flaw that is being suppressed by Denon.

About two years ago, I cranked my 5600 and caused the overprotection limit to shut down the unit. It is in my living area. Sadly, to this day, I do not have the power output or quality sound I used to. The overprotect kicks on all the time. I can't justify the price of the bigger AVR and don't need the zones. I have my 2801 in the master bedroom. I use it for surround, via in-ceiling speakers and a Kenwood 12" sub, speakers in the master bath, and two seperately controlled pairs of outdoor speakers. In the past, with guests, not having volume control to outdoor speakers, which I do now, necessitated this setup and I do like it. I moved six years ago and was able to add wiring into this place when we did a remodel about 4 years ago. I want my next receiver to be useable for future expansion and moves. I am investing all new purchases for 3D and such. I don't know if I'll ever go to a 7.xxx, but perhaps next time.

Right now, in the large living area, I have a 14" in wall sub(Difinitive) and some Sonance 8" 3-way speakers. PC, 3D BD player, and satellite. Everything is hooked to a wireless gaming router, though I don't play games. I have all cables going into the wall and up to my TV and ceiling. I cannot justify to my wife to get the 5xxx series or an 80" 3D HDTV, yet.

Now, back to that 3312. It still concerns me, because that is the one I want and if there is a known issue, I want to know that if it occurs, while I own it, Denon will pay for the shipment to them. I'm not yet convinced it is only a refurb issue. A 3 year warranty is nice, but not if I have to spend $50-$70 to get it to them for repair.
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscda123 View Post

Now, back to that 3312. It still concerns me, because that is the one I want and if there is a known issue, I want to know that if it occurs, while I own it, Denon will pay for the shipment to them. I'm not yet convinced it is only a refurb issue. A 3 year warranty is nice, but not if I have to spend $50-$70 to get it to them for repair.

It's strange that a problem with the 3312 would just now come up after its been out for several months. If JD doesn't know of an issue (other than the video one he mentioned) I doubt there is one. Don't count on Denon paying shipping for anything because they didn't even do that with the 3310 which had a defective network card. If you're that worried about this "issue" then I would look at something like the Onkyo 809 as it has pretty much all of the features the 3312 has minus the airplay.
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Honestly, knowning that you know, and with your feelings about denon. Why would you even think of buying one at this time. You should look elsewere, there are many avrs in at that price range. If the 3312 is a lemon, thank your lucky stars that you didn't get suck with one. Never buy tech on the promise of a firmware fix.
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your responses. I will look at the Onkyo 809. I don't use Apple products, so that is useful info. If I have any positive info to share in the near future, I will. I don't want to use this forum for only possibly negative issues. I do like Denon and it is always hard to change. Kindly, Chris
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 07:21 PM
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Have a nice day onkyo rep troll.
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-08-2012, 07:26 PM
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Accessories4less is a reputable dealer from which i have bought numerous pieces from numerous manufacturers for over seven years. If they had a problem with their inventory, i feel confident mark (don't know larry) would resolve it immediately.
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-09-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I wish I could say the same about Accessories4less. Their "About Us" corporate statement could not be further from the truth/reality and from my experience, the chances are slim to none, that I will ever attempt to do business with them again. I have a long history myself, dealing with online merchants; Newegg, Amazon, Ebay, Tiger, and sooo many others. All have been positive. I have never been treated with the couldn't-care-less attitude like this place says they don't. I even attempted to purchase a Denon AVR-3311, they had in stock. I inquierd as to whether it might have the same issues as the 3312. Larry never responded and so I asked Mark if there was anything I had done to merit being ignored. In the end, Mark responded, but copped an attitude, saying he did not understand why I was wasting time on a closed issue. Over a couple of days, I explained that the 3312 issue was closed and refunded, but I never heard if the 3311 they showed as "In Stock" was available or if they recommended an alternate refurbed receiver for the 3312. It is what they do and I thought they would know which ones are reliable. By the time my question was finally answered, they had pulled the 3311 off the shelf or sold it. Mark's fianl response was; "We have had no issues with the 3311. We are sold out of this unit and don’t know when we will receive anymore." That was the end. No apologies for the misunderstanding or being blown off by Larry, just a professional style attitude problem and slap-in-the-face goodbye.

The email is long and this is not the forum for that enlighttening issue. I would love to share it though.

I did look at the Onkyo 809, but I think I will take the advice of joehonest and purchase a new receiver. The 809 has impressive stats, but is not a very pretty beast. As I still like the 3312 I wil eventually take jdsmoothie's advice and "call" one of his two suggestions he mentiones above.
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-10-2012, 11:25 AM
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I got my 3311 from Amazon warehouse deals and it has been perfect. I did the firmware update as soon as I got it and it hasn't had any of the network issues my 3310 had. It was an open box for a really good price and it looked brand new when it came in. Also the open box from amazon warehouse deals comes with the manufacturer's warranty. I'm not sure how often they have the open boxes on amazon but I would at least keep an eye out for them. The 809 is a really good option as well so I think you would be happy either way.
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-10-2012, 12:37 PM
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Though we no longer sell/install Denon AVRs since we were unable to make a reasonable profit due to their broad/uncontrollable sell everyone distribution policy. We found that the product itself including the 3312 were pretty solid..

The major technical problems we found were:
1. AirPlay Issues
Multiple S/W problems linking up with the PC, we installed several Denon AVRs configured AirPlay everything working fine and then 2 weeks later the user would call and advise it no longer played. Denon advised this was due to continually changing AirPlay standards from Apple and SMSC who is the supplier of the AirPlay processor.
2. Dead AVR after Upgrading the Firmware
Apparently Denon engineers failed to include a system restore function, if during the upgrade process something glitches the CPU is unable to restart which requires a major component change that must be done by a Denon Service Center...

SUMMARY
It is no secret D&M Holdings (owner of Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Boston Acoustics) is having significant operational issues. Their sales have decreased significantly and they just hired another new president. I hope they straighten out their marketing/distribution strategies and then we may consider handling their products again...

Just my $0.02..
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-11-2012, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the extra information. It is truly appreciated.

M Code do you see item 2 to be a continuing problem? Have they any plans to incorporate a fix in newer models? Thanks.
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-11-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscda123 View Post

Thanks for the extra information. It is truly appreciated.

M Code do you see item 2 to be a continuing problem? Have they any plans to incorporate a fix in newer models? Thanks.


Actually Harman/Kardon had a similar issue..
So 2 generations back they starting doing their AVR firmware upgrades via USB, and the S/W keeps the original code to be overwritten in memory until the upgrade procedure is complete and confirmed sucessful..

Just my $0.02..
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post #20 of 26 Old 06-16-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Though we no longer sell/install Denon AVRs since we were unable to make a reasonable profit due to their broad/uncontrollable sell everyone distribution policy. We found that the product itself including the 3312 were pretty solid..


The major technical problems we found were:
1. AirPlay Issues

Multiple S/W problems linking up with the PC, we installed several Denon AVRs configured AirPlay everything working fine and then 2 weeks later the user would call and advise it no longer played. Denon advised this was due to continually changing AirPlay standards from Apple and SMSC who is the supplier of the AirPlay processor.
2. Dead AVR after Upgrading the Firmware

Apparently Denon engineers failed to include a system restore function, if during the upgrade process something glitches the CPU is unable to restart which requires a major component change that must be done by a Denon Service Center...


SUMMARY

It is no secret D&M Holdings (owner of Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Boston Acoustics) is having significant operational issues. Their sales have decreased significantly and they just hired another new president. I hope they straighten out their marketing/distribution strategies and then we may consider handling their products again...


Just my $0.02..
My good friend owns a high end audio store in Seattle. He told me all stereo sales are way down.
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post #21 of 26 Old 08-03-2012, 10:15 AM
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have these problems with the units been resolved?
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post #22 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 04:14 PM
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I also have one of the defective Denon AVR-3312CI Receivers.

I have had it for 6 months and it died 3 weeks ago. Here are the issues I've had with the Denon 3312CI that are defective in nature or design

1. The HDMI ports are all blown except for the one on the front
2. Prior to the HDMI board being defective the 3312CI USB / Network connection would freeze when streaming from a NAS or online Radio Source
3. The 3312CI would freeze causing me to have to unplug the unit to get it to work
4. The 3312CI HDMI handshake with my TV and Cable Box and BluRay Player was was slow and caused each unit stall.

I took the defective Denon 3312CI Receiver to an authorized Denon repair center and they are waiting over two weeks to even hear back from Denon. No parts are being sent for my defective Denon 3312CI

I'd like to know what's going on here.

Denon sending refurb units back to those of us who bought new Denon Receivers is not right. Many people are saying these Denon units are defective too.

Now I'm reading about Denon 3313CI owners having the same issues too.

Is there an inherent problem with Denon Receivers? For me there SURE IS if you own a AVR-3312CI
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post #23 of 26 Old 09-24-2012, 11:51 AM
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When I first got the 3312 the hdmi out was blown and would not send a picture, I had to send the unit back to Denon which they had for 2 weeks and sent it back. It was working fine until about 3 weeks ago and it started going into protection mode randomly. Now it will go into protection mode every couple minutes. Sometimes it will stay on for a couple of hours and then do it every 30 seconds. I have it plugged into a Monster power 5000 and have been watching the meter and it is always around 123 volts. I tried different plugs through out the house and no luck. I finally gave up and plugged cable and Blu-Ray straight into TV. The 3312c stayed on for 4 hours with just sound coming out before it went back into it's protection mode. I emailed Denon again but waiting on a response. I used to have the 5800 which was awesome but had no hdmi so when it broke I got the 3312. Now I find out everyone else is having problems as well.
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post #24 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 12:54 AM
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Did you solve the problem? Mine has same issue.
OMG I have 3 of them.
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post #25 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 09:45 AM
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I ended up sending back to Denon who now uses http://www.panurgyoem.com/ to fix their products. I had to pay for shipping from CA to NJ. They fixed it under warranty and replaced all channels. I asked what the problem was but all they would say is they replaced all channels. Not sure what that meant but I got it back last week and it has been working fine. But sending a unit back twice in 6 months is a lot. I am thinking about pulling out my old parasound 1000 amps and use those to drive my main speakers so no to put a toll on the denon. The amps seem to have a hard time driving my old Mirage M5's. Who know. But send your unit back and they will fix it and ship it back to you.Good luck!!!!
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post #26 of 26 Old 05-14-2014, 09:13 AM
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I bought my 3312 in July 2012. About 2 months ago the center channel started cutting out. I checked my wires and all. I reset the microprocessor. I just dropped it off at an authorized service center. I'm told it will be 2 to 3 months because they are backed up. Did anyone here resolve their center channel issue and was was the problem?
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