Onkyo PR-SC-886 subwoofer Xover question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 03-15-2012, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I am unable to adjust the LFE x-over lower than 80 HZ (THX) .

I have read the manual and contacted Onkyo but still no results.

Does anyone here know?

Thanks,
John
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post #2 of 47 Old 03-15-2012, 06:16 AM
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No need. Set it at 120Hz for LFE. This does not affect the rerouted bass from the other channels as they are filtered according to the settings on those channels.

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post #3 of 47 Old 03-15-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a need because I can hear higher bass notes that are too loud compared to the low bass notes. This is one reason why pre processors typicaly have crossovers that can be set at least down to 40 HZ and some even lower...

There should be a way to set it lower, Onkyo still has not returned an answer to my question.
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post #4 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

There is a need because I can hear higher bass notes that are too loud compared to the low bass notes.

Then there is something amiss with other settings or your room acoustics. The only thing this setting affects is the LFE signal and there is rarely anything in the upper bass on this channel. If you are experiencing upper bass emphasis, this is generally due to acoustical balance issues.

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post #5 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not here to debate room acoustics or why you think I have no need to use my pre pro LFE channel crossed over below 80 HZ. Like I said, most high end units will go way below 80 HZ and have that adjustibility for a reason.

Subwoofer placement , ect....

I want to know how to set the LFE X-over to lower than 80HZ. Since you must not know how to do it, then Ok, maybe someone else here knows how and can tell me.

Thanks,
John
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post #6 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm not here to debate room acoustics or why you think I have no need to use my pre pro LFE channel crossed over below 80 HZ. Like I said, most high end units will go way below 80 HZ and have that adjustibility for a reason.

Subwoofer placement , ect....

I want to know how to set the LFE X-over to lower than 80HZ. Since you must not know how to do it, then Ok, maybe someone else here knows how and can tell me.

Thanks,
John

John,

The 80Hz setting for the LPF of LFE on the 886 is the lowest it will go end of story. If you checked the 886 manual you would have seen that fact.

Here are the settings available for LPF of LFE from page 91 of the 886's manual.

The following low-pass filter frequencies
can be selected: “80Hz(THX)”,
“90Hz”, “100Hz”, “110Hz”, or
“120Hz”.


I have the 886 and did an Audyssey recalibration today with the LFE set to 120Hz. I hear no higher bass frequencies and output from my sub (Rythmik F12SE) is smooth with minimal localization. So I would have to agree with Kal in that the LFE setting of the 886 is most likely not the cause of the issue you hearing. You might want be more receptive to fellow members advice when asking questions here. Especially from a member as knowledgable and respected as Kal.

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post #7 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm not here to debate room acoustics or why you think I have no need to use my pre pro LFE channel crossed over below 80 HZ. Like I said, most high end units will go way below 80 HZ and have that adjustibility for a reason.

Subwoofer placement , ect....

I want to know how to set the LFE X-over to lower than 80HZ. Since you must not know how to do it, then Ok, maybe someone else here knows how and can tell me.

Thanks,
John

why would you want to do this? all you would be doing is filtering out information from the lfe track? fwiw, i have never seen a lowpass for lfe filter on ANY avr/pre-pro that allows lower than 80hz, as it would make zero sense to do so...

the crossovers you are referring to in your original post are the speaker crossovers, and have zero to do with the low pass filter for lfe...

fwiw, kal is right... whether you want to debate it or not... and if you want to debate it, you might want to get your information correct in the first place...

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post #8 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm not here to debate room acoustics or why you think I have no need to use my pre pro LFE channel crossed over below 80 HZ. Like I said, most high end units will go way below 80 HZ and have that adjustibility for a reason.

We are talking about a LP filter, so how low the sub goes is irrelevant.

Quote:


Since you must not know how to do it, then Ok, maybe someone else here knows how and can tell me.

It is not possible and for good reason.

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post #9 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm aware of localzation and so apparently you are too. This is unacceptable to me and therefore just 1 more reason I want to cross it lower. Also aware of room acoustics and treatments which I have done and am changing all the time as well. I also use my setup for hi end 2 channel listening and want crossovers lower than 80 HZ for other reasons.

I didnt see that in the manual and must have missed it..., so thanks for letting me know. I will use my Rane Crossover and do it externaly.

I didnt really ask for advice in my original post and not really looking for any regarding what I want to do with it. Sorry if I bruised anyones fragile ego here. A simple no it cant be done with the Onk, or yes it can and here is how was what I looking for.

Regards,
John
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post #10 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 08:18 PM
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^^^

you can do what you want to do with the avr alone...

but since you are unwilling to learn from others...

- chris

 

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post #11 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm aware of localzation and so apparently you are too. This is unacceptable to me and therefore just 1 more reason I want to cross it lower.

The localization of my sub which is minimal at best has more to do with my room than the 886. I would think you would be able to locate your sub and or calibrate it to minimize any localization issues you have. I'm certainly not an expert on how to calibrate a sub but a little research will most likely be very helpful for the issue you are experiencing. But then again that would be considered "advice" which of course you did not ask for.

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post #12 of 47 Old 03-16-2012, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

you can do what you want to do with the avr alone...

but since you are unwilling to learn from others...

Can the Onk LFE cross over be set to below 80 HZ. Yes or no? and if yes, How can I do it. I said I didnt want advice, I asked a question and If that requires learning how to set it then please tell me.

Why say I dont want to learn? Thats not what I said at all. If there is a way to set it below 80 HZ. Explain it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The localization of my sub which is minimal at best has more to do with my room than the 886. I would think you would be able to locate your sub and or calibrate it to minimize any localization issues you have. I'm certainly not an expert on how to calibrate a sub but a little research will most likely be very helpful for the issue you are experiencing. But then again that would be considered "advice" which of course you did not ask for.

Bill

Everyone is different on ability to localize as all rooms are different as well. Yes, localization can be minimized with calibration, room correction software, sub placement ect....All issues I'm dealing with and are already aware of.
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post #14 of 47 Old 03-17-2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

Can the Onk LFE cross over be set to below 80 HZ. Yes or no? and if yes, How can I do it. I said I didnt want advice, I asked a question and If that requires learning how to set it then please tell me.

Why say I dont want to learn? Thats not what I said at all. If there is a way to set it below 80 HZ. Explain it.

For some reason you still seem to think the LPF of LFE of the 886 can be set below 80Hz. Do you believe the 886 manual is incorrect? Did you go into the 886 menu and see for yourself what the LPF of LFE setting options are? Unless someone can figure out how to hack the 886 menu to force the setting lower than 80Hz it isn't going to happen.

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Is perhaps the OP confusing the sub crossover and the LFE crossover?

You can set the sub crossover to as low as 40Hz. It is different from the LFE crossover.

Also, if you have it on a THX setting the sub crossover may automatically go to 80Hz, so don't use a THX setting and see what happens.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

For some reason you still seem to think the LPF of LFE of the 886 can be set below 80Hz. Do you believe the 886 manual is incorrect? Did you go into the 886 menu and see for yourself what the LPF of LFE setting options are? Unless someone can figure out how to hack the 886 menu to force the setting lower than 80Hz it isn't going to happen.

Bill





ccotenj said I can do what I want ....thats why I'm still asking, can it be done?
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post #17 of 47 Old 03-17-2012, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Is perhaps the OP confusing the sub crossover and the LFE crossover?

You can set the sub crossover to as low as 40Hz. It is different from the LFE crossover.

Also, if you have it on a THX setting the sub crossover may automatically go to 80Hz, so don't use a THX setting and see what happens.

So there is a separete subwoofer Crossover than can be set below 80HZ? I didnt see that either...I'm using the outlaws guide manual to the Onk. didnt see it in there....
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post #18 of 47 Old 03-17-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Is perhaps the OP confusing the sub crossover and the LFE crossover?

You can set the sub crossover to as low as 40Hz. It is different from the LFE crossover.

Also, if you have it on a THX setting the sub crossover may automatically go to 80Hz, so don't use a THX setting and see what happens.

yes, as noted earlier, he is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

ccotenj said I can do what I want ....thats why I'm still asking, can it be done?

yes... it can... use the speaker/sub xover (the one where you set your speakers to "small" and choose the frequency at which to cross them over)...

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post #19 of 47 Old 03-17-2012, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Is perhaps the OP confusing the sub crossover and the LFE crossover?

You can set the sub crossover to as low as 40Hz. It is different from the LFE crossover.

Also, if you have it on a THX setting the sub crossover may automatically go to 80Hz, so don't use a THX setting and see what happens.

Steve,

I believe you are on to something here. I assumed that the OP knew the difference and that he could set each speakers x-over point. But that would not be the "LFE" x-over that he referred to in the first post. Good point on the parameters for the THX setting. Hopefully he will get everything sorted out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

ccotenj said I can do what I want ....thats why I'm still asking, can it be done?

Yes you can do what you want as long as it isn't trying to set the LPF of LFE on the 886 to below 80Hz. I think you misinterpreted Chris' post.

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post #20 of 47 Old 03-17-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

So there is a separete subwoofer Crossover than can be set below 80HZ?

1. No, there is not. There is no subwoofer crossover, per se.
2. There is a separate high pass filter for LFE (only) which does not go below 80hz because it is never(!) necessary.
3. Crossover for bass management (which sets the low pass fiilter for the sub) is set individually for each channel/group in the speaker setup.
4. Do you appreciate that difference between the HP filter for LFE and the LP filter for bass management?

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post #21 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm beyond confused at this point. I tried turning off THX settings and still cant get anything below 80HZ in an LFE or subwoofer section.
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post #22 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 05:51 AM
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^^^

well, that thing that comes with your unit called a manual is helpful...

start at page 89...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm beyond confused at this point. I tried turning off THX settings and still cant get anything below 80HZ in an LFE or subwoofer section.

You said you just wanted an answer...the answer is NO! You can not set what you are trying to set below 80HZ.
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post #24 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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being told the subwoofer crossover can be set below 80 HZ now the way it sounds, just need to figure it out now I guess
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post #25 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

well, that thing that comes with your unit called a manual is helpful...

start at page 89...

yea, I did, dont see anywhere in it where is says I can cross the subwoofer over below 80 HZ.
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post #26 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

yea, I did, dont see anywhere in it where is says I can cross the subwoofer over below 80 HZ.

Where have you set the crossovers for your other channels? Those settings determine what goes to the subwoofer.

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post #27 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 07:34 AM
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John, why is this so difficult? There is continuing confusion in terminology and descriptives.

Are you perhaps running Double bass with speakers as large?

If you wish to have what you want there are only two ways.

Set your speakers (no matter type/size) as small and each channel will then allow x-over of 40Hz if you wish. The range is 40-200Hz if I recall.

Or

Simply run speaker level connections to the sub and use the on-sub x-over.

One or the other. Stop looking for something that clearly doesn't exist.




My life is an open book...wish I could read it and have it make sense.

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post #28 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor View Post

I'm beyond confused at this point. I tried turning off THX settings and still cant get anything below 80HZ in an LFE or subwoofer section.

Go to page 89 in the 886 manual. There it will explain how to set the x-overs for all of your speakers. As has been explained to you already with actual text from the 886 manual the LPF of LFE setting can not be set below 80Hz.

Speaker Configuration:

With the Speaker Configuration settings, you can specify
which speakers are connected and a crossover frequency,
distance, and level for each speaker.

The following crossover frequencies can be specified:
Full Band, 40 Hz, 45 Hz, 50 Hz, 55 Hz, 60 Hz, 70 Hz,
80 Hz (THX), 90 Hz, 100 Hz, 110 Hz, 120 Hz, 130 Hz,
150 Hz, or 200 Hz.
Specify Full Band for speakers that can output low-frequency
bass sounds adequately, for example, speakers
with a good sized woofer. For smaller speakers, specify
a crossover frequency. Sounds below the crossover frequency
will then be output by the subwoofer instead of
the speaker.
Refer to your speakers' manuals to determine
the optimum crossover frequencies.


Bill

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post #29 of 47 Old 03-19-2012, 07:39 AM
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I don't understand why we are still trying to help him...over and over all he said was a yes or a no.

Well the answer is NO to his question...with the attitude this guy is taking WHO CARES!
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post #30 of 47 Old 03-21-2012, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Go to page 89 in the 886 manual. There it will explain how to set the x-overs for all of your speakers. As has been explained to you already with actual text from the 886 manual the LPF of LFE setting can not be set below 80Hz.

Speaker Configuration:

With the Speaker Configuration settings, you can specify
which speakers are connected and a crossover frequency,
distance, and level for each speaker.

The following crossover frequencies can be specified:
Full Band, 40 Hz, 45 Hz, 50 Hz, 55 Hz, 60 Hz, 70 Hz,
80 Hz (THX), 90 Hz, 100 Hz, 110 Hz, 120 Hz, 130 Hz,
150 Hz, or 200 Hz.
Specify Full Band for speakers that can output low-frequency
bass sounds adequately, for example, speakers
with a good sized woofer. For smaller speakers, specify
a crossover frequency. Sounds below the crossover frequency
will then be output by the subwoofer instead of
the speaker.
Refer to your speakers' manuals to determine
the optimum crossover frequencies.


Bill

Ok, will try that bill

thanks,
John
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