2012 Marantz Receiver Anticipation Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 202 Old 03-17-2012, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully they will lose the robot face design...
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post #2 of 202 Old 03-17-2012, 10:30 PM
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Scary topic since I setup ae new sr7005.
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post #3 of 202 Old 03-18-2012, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Hopefully they will lose the robot face design...

Likely to happen, although probably for cost/standardisation reason rather than change in taste.
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post #4 of 202 Old 03-18-2012, 02:04 AM
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I really like the design of the current marantz line.*shrugs*

ht Panasonic 60" ZT60, Monitor Audio: Silver RX6, RX Centre, Radius 90HD; Martinlogan Dynamo 700, Marantz SR5006, PS3, Oppo BDP-103D
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post #5 of 202 Old 03-18-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I really like the design of the current marantz line.*shrugs*

The 6005/6004/6003/5005 design was gorgeous, uniquely marantz, and clean. D&M botched the design of the upper level 2011 denons and mid level marantzs in my humble opinion.
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post #6 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 08:00 AM
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Anyone hear anything....?
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post #7 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Denon, Marantz and Boston Acoustics New Product Showcase scheduled for May 29.

Although some details on the Denon's have been popping up early, I think this is when we'll find out for D&M's product lineup.

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post #8 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

The 6005/6004/6003/5005 design was gorgeous, uniquely marantz, and clean. D&M botched the design of the upper level 2011 denons and mid level marantzs in my humble opinion.

Ill agree the 5005/6005 was one of the nicest receiver designs I have seen. I do like the weird design of the xx06 series but it can't touch the previous years. I think we will see a redesign this year considering the new look of the Denons.



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post #9 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Although some details on the Denon's have been popping up early, I think this is when we'll find out for D&M's product lineup.

I have mentioned this previously in other threads...
But here goes..

Going forward D&M will be using common electrical platforms for their Denon & Marantz AVRs..
During the last 3 years D&M has lost significant $ and market share in the AVR category..
And they will continue with different market positioning strategies, but need to realize that with the shrinking distribution channels for choosing between brick & mortar specialists, AV installers, internet sellers and and big-box tonnage guys...

Just my $0.02...
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post #10 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
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Curious as to when the new ones will come out.Isnt usually every 2 yrs or so.I believe my sr8002 came out in 08 and the 7005 in 2010.
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post #11 of 202 Old 04-18-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post

Curious as to when the new ones will come out.Isnt usually every 2 yrs or so.I believe my sr8002 came out in 08 and the 7005 in 2010.

Dealer show is end of May, delivery rolling out 45 days after depending upon brand/model..


Just my $0.02..
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post #12 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 08:41 AM
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post #13 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Going forward D&M will be using common electrical platforms for their Denon & Marantz AVRs..
During the last 3 years D&M has lost significant $ and market share in the AVR category..
And they will continue with different market positioning strategies, but need to realize that with the shrinking distribution channels for choosing between brick & mortar specialists, AV installers, internet sellers and and big-box tonnage guys...

Just my $0.02...

Losing share to whom--Onkyo (which is feature rich relative to the price point, but historically has QC issues)? Yamaha? Pioneer? Probably not Sony....and definitely NOT Sherwood (of course, as it's been pointed out elsewhere, the lower-range AVRs are designed by the same South Korean company behind Sherwood). OTOH, if you mean that D&M is losing CE share to Apple, Samsung, and smartphone mfrs, you have a point, but that's an industry rather than a mfr-specific one as such.

In the case of Pioneer, you wouldn't know it from AVS, where it seems that Denon is trouncing it because of Audyssey on the forums. But audiophiles are in the 1% relative to the mass market...

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post #14 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


Losing share to whom--Onkyo? Yamaha? Pioneer? Probably not Sony....and definitely NOT Sherwood (of course, as it's been pointed out elsewhere, the lower-range AVRs are designed by the same South Korean company behind Sherwood). OTOH, if you mean that D&M is losing CE share to Apple, Samsung, and smartphone mfrs, you have a point, but that's an industry rather than a mfr-specific one as such.

In the case of Pioneer, you wouldn't know it from AVS, where it seems that Denon is trouncing it because of Audyssey on the forums. But audiophiles are in the 1% relative to the mass market...

If I remember previous posts from M-Code, it's Yamaha who is the seeing the biggest gain in market share. Surprised me too, but he's been a reliable source of info.
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post #15 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

If I remember previous posts from M-Code, it's Yamaha who is the seeing the biggest gain in market share. Surprised me too, but he's been a reliable source of info.

I wonder if he infor from the NPD Group's Retail Tracking Service....I Googled "Denon market share" and there's references to a press release touting Denon as having a 23% share of the US surround sound AVR market in early 2008, followed by Yamaha, Sony & Marantz, with NPD as the source. There's also a reference to Denon (DK if it's just the brand name or D&M combined) that cites 2009 info with a 35% overall share, 41% in the $1K-1.5K market, and 45% in >$1500 AVRs in the 'specialty channel'.

I don't see anything specific to 2011 or 2012 about AVRs online. You can find general CE info, but that's not the same thing.

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Oppo 93 and 103

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Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

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post #16 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

In the case of Pioneer, you wouldn't know it from AVS, where it seems that Denon is trouncing it because of Audyssey on the forums. But audiophiles are in the 1% relative to the mass market...

I think Pioneer sells a lot more low end and HTIB than people think. There are also players in that low end which people forget about such as Samsung and Sony.
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post #17 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 02:05 PM
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I think Pioneer sells a lot more low end and HTIB than people think. There are also players in that low end which people forget about such as Samsung and Sony.

Well, they have enough models in the LT $1K category, that's for sure. I've been following the 2012 threads, and at least superficially it looks like some of the SC Elite features (e.g. Qdeo, Airplay, "advanced' MCACC) are trickling down to the lower units like the VSX-60, so "low end" is relative. We sometimes forget that to many people, a $650 networking AVR isn't the start of 'mid range', it's 'state of the art'. That goes for Denon as well (less so for Marantz, who only have a mere three models, opposed to twice that number for Denon under $1K).

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post #18 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Well, they have enough models in the LT $1K category, that's for sure. I've been following the 2012 threads, and at least superficially it looks like some of the SC Elite features (e.g. Qdeo, Airplay, "advanced' MCACC) are trickling down to the lower units like the VSX-60, so "low end" is relative. We sometimes forget that to many people, a $650 networking AVR isn't the start of 'mid range', it's 'state of the art'. That goes for Denon as well (less so for Marantz, who only have a mere three models, opposed to twice that number for Denon under $1K).

I can't see Pioneer doing well this year especially if people do a little research before they buy. The 1120 and 1121 were nice models but now that they dropped the preamp outputs and 10lbs on the 1122 I don't see many people jumping on the Pioneer bandwagon. MCACC has stayed the same for several years now and it's really outdated. I'm surprised they have not made updates to at least EQ a subwoofer. I think this will be a bad year for Pioneer but who knows.



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post #19 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I can't see Pioneer doing well this year especially if people do a little research before they buy. The 1120 and 1121 were nice models but now that they dropped the preamp outputs and 10lbs on the 1122 I don't see many people jumping on the Pioneer bandwagon. MCACC has stayed the same for several years now and it’s really outdated. I’m surprised they have not made updates to at least EQ a subwoofer. I think this will be a bad year for Pioneer but who knows.

You're preaching to the converted.....I'm one of the pied piper's acolytes in putting Sub EQ and XT32 ahead of all else, everything being equal, remember:-)?

It depends on what the research is....if you look at the Pioneer website, you see lots of black & silver, and boldface headlines trumpeting iDevice connectivity and being able to air jam all night long.

And if you don't know better, you'd think MCACC is state of the art from the description:
Pioneer's Advanced Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration system (MCACC) provides an optimized, multi-channel listening experience calibrated and customized specifically to your room by measuring every speaker's connection, and noting size and distance from the listening point, sound levels and timbre.

I don't want to take this thread anymore off topic than it already is, but the jist of it is that Pioneer is selling image of being cool and modern, even if they're not if you understand what the receiver's doing for RC. People like you and I think that they're heading downscale, but we're not their consumers. iDorks, value shoppers looking for an edge over other budget AVRs, and people that think that the name=quality are.

Re Marantz: I see that they've got Audyssey XT (not XT32) on their higher-end current units. The question is whether their brands gets XT32 for their equivalent of the 3313 (or higher), or does that stay exclusively with Denon?
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Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #20 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

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Been waiting for a SR7005 replacement to replace my aging non-3D Yamaha RX-V1800.

well, the sr6006 is essentially the "replacement" for it... similar to the sr7005 sharing a platform with the denon 3311, the sr6006 shares a platform with the denon 3312...

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post #21 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

You're preaching to the converted.....I'm one of the pied piper's acolytes in putting Sub EQ and XT32 ahead of all else, everything being equal, remember:-)

always good to see my minions speeding the word...

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post #22 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 03:23 PM
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always good to see my minions speeding the word...

And spreading it LOL....

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Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

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Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #23 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 03:27 PM
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^^^

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post #24 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, the sr6006 is essentially the "replacement" for it... similar to the sr7005 sharing a platform with the denon 3311, the sr6006 shares a platform with the denon 3312...

Yeah, that ones been blowing my mind for a while, as I cant figure out what their idea is there.

The 3312 actually has slightly better measured specs than the 3311. So why did Marantz use it to launch the 6006 model? It is far too close in position to the 5006. Should instead have update the SR7005 to an SR7006, using the 3312.

I dont think they will launch any higher model, as the 4311 has been around for ages and they did not utilize it as a platform to build a top model. Which is bizarre. If you bother to have the Marantz brand, why is there no current model with XT32? The 3312 platform is capable of supporting XT32, which could have been used a differentiation point for the Marantz brand for example.
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^^^

i have no idea... seemed like a good idea to a beancounter somewhere in d&m, i guess...

to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me to see the marantz nameplate disappear entirely in the not to distant future...

as you note, the 4311 was the logical platform for a sr/av8xxx, and that never appeared...

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^
Entirely? Or just in the AVR market?

Steve
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^^^

entirely....

d&m is literally swimming in red ink... sooner or later, someone in the management chain is going to realize that redundant product lines probably don't make the best business sense in "today's world"...

gm doesn't make oldsmobiles or pontiacs anymore... it happens... nameplates die...

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post #28 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 05:19 PM
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Based on the earlier press release that D&M will be releasing 75 new items this year alone and reported new line item releases for their 60th anniversary next year, the Marantz line is likely to be around for awhile longer.

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post #29 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I can't see Pioneer doing well this year especially if people do a little research before they buy. The 1120 and 1121 were nice models but now that they dropped the preamp outputs and 10lbs on the 1122 I don't see many people jumping on the Pioneer bandwagon. MCACC has stayed the same for several years now and it's really outdated. I'm surprised they have not made updates to at least EQ a subwoofer. I think this will be a bad year for Pioneer but who knows.

1121 will be replaced by the 1222 with class d amps. The 1122 replaces the 1021
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post #30 of 202 Old 04-19-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I wonder if he infor from the NPD Group's Retail Tracking Service....I Googled "Denon market share" and there's references to a press release touting Denon as having a 23% share of the US surround sound AVR market in early 2008, followed by Yamaha, Sony & Marantz, with NPD as the source. There's also a reference to Denon (DK if it's just the brand name or D&M combined) that cites 2009 info with a 35% overall share, 41% in the $1K-1.5K market, and 45% in >$1500 AVRs in the 'specialty channel'.

I don't see anything specific to 2011 or 2012 about AVRs online. You can find general CE info, but that's not the same thing.

OK...
Lets update the North American AVR market in 2011..
  • $ Sales were down 22%
  • Unit sales were up 18%
  • Average AVR selling price decreased 27% to $329

Go back 2 years...
The primary AVR brands lead by Denon who then had a market share of 24% entered into a highly competitive price war attempting to lock up the major AVR sellers and face off with Onkyo...
Though Denon sold a boat load of AVRs for <$399, they lost money on every AVR unit sold as they totally ignored their traditional higher positioned, profit oriented AVR category of >$999...

Once...
The price erosion started Denon relaxed their distribution policy on internet sellers, and overnite the higher positioned Denon AVRs (traditionally sold by the installer based AV specialists) were available at reduced pricing. The profit-oriented, installer AV specialist shifted their loyalty to Integra and Yamaha (Aventage series) which still provided distribution protection from the highly discounted internet channels..

When the dust settled Denon lost a jumbo chunk of $...
Plus they destroyed their previous well established channels of the higher positioned, profit oriented installer based AV specialists.
End result for Denon was a complete house kleening of their organization including CEO, Pres, VPs..

Brand AVR market share in North America for 2011 shows Yamaha @ 26%, Onkyo @ 21% and Denon @ 16%..

Just my $0.02.....
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