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post #151 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 02:17 PM
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[quote="jproy13"]I don't see IBM and others rushing to implement class AB amps in their products /QUOTE]
Who is IBM? Isn't that one of the pioneers of the pc age, who was unable to evolve along with their customers changing needs and was forced to exit the business? Well, that would be why they aren't implementing amps in their products. In fact they have no products - they are now a consulting company.

At least IBM had something to fall back on. It's not clear to me what knowledge asset the likes of today's AVR brand will have left to fall back on when the are ushered our of this business.

Also the computer companies will not enter the business with "Class AB" amps. They'd do it with the Class D tech that the incumbent are sitting on and doing nothing with. Already Apple is in this business, using airplay as a Trojan horse
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post #152 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 02:41 PM
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If you think AVRs are computers, you stand to be disappointed for a while.
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post #153 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 02:47 PM
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[quote=Osamede;21814276]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

I don't see IBM and others rushing to implement class AB amps in their products /QUOTE]
Who is IBM? Isn't that one of the pioneers of the pc age, who was unable to evolve along with their customers changing needs and was forced to exit the business? Well, that would be why they aren't implementing amps in their products. In fact they have no products - they are now a consulting company.

At least IBM had something to fall back on. It's not clear to me what knowledge asset the likes of today's AVR brand will have left to fall back on when the are ushered our of this business.

Also the computer companies will not enter the business with "Class AB" amps. They'd do it with the Class D tech that the incumbent are sitting on and doing nothing with. Already Apple is in this business, using airplay as a Trojan horse

You think that you're going to be using your smartphone or laptop or tablet to power your speakers? I think we just have a different idea of what a AVR should be for. That's cool.

I'm into audio, nice clean realistic front soundstage so I can enjoy my flics.

You clearly have another idea of what they should do. That's you and I respect that. I just don't think you'll see what you want tomorrow unless Pio or Denon merges with IBM or Apple. There is just not any moneys available for that. To much of a niche product.
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post #154 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 03:09 PM
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It's disturbing to see how defensive and blinkered the industry is - to the point of misrepresent what has been said.

No I don't expect a smartphone or tablet to replace the AVR. I am pointing out that "Airpay" is an example of a computer company creaming off the value in this business, turning your hardware to a commodity - and worse yet charging you for the privilege of emptying your pockets and making off with your customers. Such is the power of having a better interface and a standardised platform.

This could be a chance for self reflection - or you could of course choose to indulge in wild distortion of what I said as a means of avoiding painfull truths. The choice is yours.
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post #155 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Who is IBM? Isn't that one of the pioneers of the pc age, who was unable to evolve along with their customers changing needs and was forced to exit the business? Well, that would be why they aren't implementing amps in their products. In fact they have no products - they are now a consulting company.

At least IBM had something to fall back on. It's not clear to me what knowledge asset the likes of today's AVR brand will have left to fall back on when the are ushered our of this business.

Also the computer companies will not enter the business with "Class AB" amps. They'd do it with the Class D tech that the incumbent are sitting on and doing nothing with. Already Apple is in this business, using airplay as a Trojan horse

ummm... you might want to check up on ibm, if you think all they are is a consulting company...

there's more to the computing world than pc's... i know that's hard for people who never see anything other than a pc/mac/smartphone/tablet to understand...

i like apple, and have been accused of being a dalek with an ipad for a head... but frankly, i don't see them entering what would be a very low margin business... there's nothing to really revolutionize in this particular marketplace, and i think it's highly unlikely that they could sell a completely closed environment at a significant price premium... and while it's true avr's are application specific computers (same is true of smartphones), avrs don't live in a closed environment... to follow the apple model, they'd also have to sell source devices and sinks... however, i have been wrong before...

also, the usage of an avr is significantly different than a "computer" or smartphone... there really is no equivalency here...

and fwiw, i've been involved in more than one "forward looking" project or two along the way...

again, as noted, i have been wrong before... but apple has been rumored to be taking over the living room for a long time, and i'm still waiting for it to happen... imo, they are perfectly content selling content when it comes to that...

now, IF apple could make a price competitive product, and have it "just work", then it would sell... that i don't doubt...

- chris

 

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post #156 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 05:42 PM
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^^^
I don't know what happened up there but some if that stuff, I didn't say.
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post #157 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

It's disturbing to see how defensive and blinkered the industry is - to the point of misrepresent what has been said.

No I don't expect a smartphone or tablet to replace the AVR. I am pointing out that "Airpay" is an example of a computer company creaming off the value in this business, turning your hardware to a commodity - and worse yet charging you for the privilege of emptying your pockets and making off with your customers. Such is the power of having a better interface and a standardised platform.

This could be a chance for self reflection - or you could of course choose to indulge in wild distortion of what I said as a means of avoiding painfull truths. The choice is yours.

When you succeed in making a proper parallel between a computer or a phone and an AVR, maybe it won't be perceived as "misrepresentation"

And you are using big words to still not say what you expect your AVR to do. I have pointed out what were the main functions of an AVR. You are talking about Airplay. Denon, Onkyo and company are not in the apps business.

I'm certainly not the smartest person in the world but you have not convince me of what a better interface will do to sell AVRs to the masses. It is, and always will be a niche product. If somebody wants a "hub" to control all their toys, get a laptop.

"standardized platform"
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post #158 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

Also the computer companies will not enter the business with "Class AB" amps. They'd do it with the Class D tech that the incumbent are sitting on and doing nothing with. Already Apple is in this business, using airplay as a Trojan horse

Are you rushing out to buy a class D amp? It's not implemented everywhere because it does not sell AVRs. Until ppl's perceptions change, it will be on the shelves. Ask Pioneer.
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post #159 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

^^^
I don't know what happened up there but some if that stuff, I didn't say.

oops... the quote didn't work quite right... fixed...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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