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2012 models are disappointing

13K views 113 replies 44 participants last post by  Strider- 
#1 ·
From everything I've read, it looks like the 2012 models of receivers are a big disappointment. In most cases there's no real difference between 2011 and 2012 models. It seems like all that's happened is the model numbers and price were pushed up a little. I've read about Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo. Pretty much all the major brands.


I was hoping higher end audyssey worked it's way into lower models. It doesn't look like it.


I was hoping 9.2 and higher worked down into lower end models. Nope.


I was hoping pre-outs worked their way into lower end models. Nope.


I was hoping mcacc and/or ypao added sub eq. Nope.


It seems like TVs have better 2012 models, but not AV equipment.
 
#2 ·
^^^


well...


- actually, in 2011, xt worked it's way down into lower models... however, they still need a differentiator for totl models... put xt32 in the denon 3xxx model (for example), and it would completely cannibalize sales of the 4xxx model...


- needless expense for lower end models... i doubt that 5% of consumers even have 5.1...


- same... i doubt that even 1% of that 5% would even consider external amplification (not to mention they don't need it)...


- very good point, and one that we have beaten to death in a few pio threads...


avrs, just like everything else, are built to a price point... and those price points are based on what the majority, not the small minority, want...
 
#3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21805109


From everything I've read, it looks like the 2012 models of receivers are a big disappointment. In most cases there's no real difference between 2011 and 2012 models.

When I looked at Yamaha models, there was not a big difference between 2010 and 2011 models I looked at.


There's really not a lot of interesting tech right now...not much has changed since HDMI 1.4 models started coming out that I can tell.


Seems your main dissapointment is a lack of trickle down. I am thinking it's not a good deal for mftr's to trickle down much into lower models when they have nothing cool to add to the higher models. Am I making sense?
 
#4 ·
^^^


yup... you are making sense...
 
#6 ·
furthermore, imo, we are reaching a bit of plateau of technology... the last half dozen or so years have brought new tech each year (primarily driven by hdmi, but some other goodies as well)...


right now, there's not a lot more to "do"... 4k, while a neat marketing term, really isn't of any concern to 99.999% of consumers (and whatever 4k display/pj they get down the road will already do 4k processing)...


as noted earlier, "more" channels of processing/amplification also have no real market in the lower ends, and also present other issues (more expensive power supplies for one, which are the most expensive part of any avr to begin with)...


we've reached a settling in point... which (for my wallet, anyway), isn't necessarily a bad thing...
 
#9 ·
^^^


troublemaker...
 
#10 ·
I'm not aware of any technological feature improvement that has come out in the last few years. Has there been anything since HDMI 1.4?


A lot of the 'improvements' seems to have been related to adding more internet content and connectivity. This is just moving computer features to the AVR.
 
#13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21806757


Technology is supposed to get less expensive as time progresses and it seems like in 2012, it's become more expensive.

It trickles down much slower when they don't have something to replace it with (on the high-end).
 
#14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/0



That is exactly what I'm disappointed in. Technology is supposed to get less expensive as time progresses and it seems like in 2012, it's become more expensive.

You forgot about value of dollar against other currencies. We are lucky enough not to see price of electronics up by 50% from what we had a few years ago.
 
#15 ·
2011 models, look like a good year for purchase, because they are going to be current for a few years, it looks like. 4K is the next big thing coming and it is going to be a few years before it becomes a must have item. To me XT32 is what should be tempting people to move up right now. That is the feature that I was looking for in an AVR.
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 /forum/post/21806866


You forgot about value of dollar against other currencies. We are lucky enough not to see price of electronics up by 50% from what we had a few years ago.

That would be true if electronics were priced in ounces of silver or gold. But since everyone is trying to devalue their currency, it all evens out.
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 /forum/post/21806866


You forgot about value of dollar against other currencies. We are lucky enough not to see price of electronics up by 50% from what we had a few years ago.

Don't be fooled, money is money, we are paying alot more, and getting less. As the title to this thread tells what its all about. If you think the new 2012 avrs are a big disappointment, just wait for the 2013 and 2014. By 2020 a avr will just be a crappy apple app.
 
#19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21807002


That would be true if electronics were priced in ounces of silver or gold. But since everyone is trying to devalue their currency, it all evens out.



Hmmm...



The AVR product category is dominated by Japan based corporation brands including Yamaha, Sony, Onkyo, Denon/Marantz. And their financials are reported in Japanese YEN, USA sales are in $ and then converted to YEN when consolidated in their respective financials. Last year the exchange rate was 117 YEN=1US$, now it is 82 YEN=1US$, so the value of the US$ has decreased 30%...


Since retail pricing for AVRs in the USA stayed about the same for the last year, Who covered the 30%??


Ding, Ding......

The product was cheapened up significantly by decreasing power transformer size, heat sinking..



Basic 101 Economics...
Can't raise retail pricing so they need to decrease their AVR material costs..


Next question...


Just my $0.02...
 
#20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21807002


That would be true if electronics were priced in ounces of silver or gold. But since everyone is trying to devalue their currency, it all evens out.

Read a book on economics and how exchange rates work, then report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest /forum/post/21807499


Don't be fooled, money is money, we are paying alot more, and getting less. As the title to this thread tells what its all about. If you think the new 2012 avrs are a big disappointment, just wait for the 2013 and 2014. By 2020 a avr will just be a crappy apple app.

You really believe that you are getting less and paying more for electronics, and more specifically AVR's.?


My Denon 3300 (purchased over a decade ago) cost about the same my A100, yet I'm very comfortable in saying that there is are a lot more features in the newer model. A LOT more.


I doubt you could name any electronic devices where your statement is accurate.
 
#21 ·
The solution to the problem in the original post is to buy a higher end 2011 model that is now selling for less. If you want pre-outs, 9.1, Audyssey XT 32, HDMI 1.4a and solid power, then look at the AVR-4311ci. Careful shopping around on the internet will get you a *very* good price on these today. This is what I just did. Be careful, some sites are stating they are in stock when the are in fact back ordered for weeks. Email or chat with the site to verify availability.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma /forum/post/21807896


Read a book on economics and how exchange rates work, then report back.




You really believe that you are getting less and paying more for electronics, and more specifically AVR's.?


My Denon 3300 (purchased over a decade ago) cost about the same my A100, yet I'm very comfortable in saying that there is are a lot more features in the newer model. A LOT more.


I doubt you could name any electronic devices where your statement is accurate.

- yea, i didn't know that exchange rates only effected silver and gold...
that's certainly an, ummm, different way of looking at things... currency traders would be shocked at this little nugget of "knowledge"...



- but... but... he's "honest"...



fwiw, anyone who thinks they are getting "less for their buck" today with electronics (vs. years ago) is kidding themselves, or simply isn't paying attention...


edit: what's intriguing to his "commentary" is that there is a healthy thread going on right now where someone is insisting that if we turn avr's into a crappy apple app they'd become the greatest thing since sliced bread...
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard /forum/post/21808055


When/if the 2012 models don't sell, the companies will be forced to re-evaluate.


It doesn't look like this is the year of
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/21805109


I was hoping 9.2 and higher worked down into lower end models. Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/21805140


^^^

- needless expense for lower end models... i doubt that 5% of consumers even have 5.1...

To add to ccotenj's post most people do not have a dedicated home theater and watch their movies in their living room. Even placing 5.1 in the living room can be a difficult for various reasons, never mind 9.2.
 
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