Onkyo vs. Integra A/V Receivers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-27-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The Onkyos and Integras have similar models at least on paper (specifications). While Onkyos are available for bargain prices, the Integras prices are pretty much fixed.

I was comparing Onkyo NR809 and Integra 50.3. The specifications are more or less the same but the Onkyo ($700 for NR809) is 50% lesser than Integra ($1499 for 50.3).

Is there more to the Integras than what is mentioned in the specifications?
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-27-2012, 08:05 PM
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Most likely there are some slack when it comes to Onkyo pricing while Integra if caught selling below MSRP will almost always get your distribution pulled or at least it used to be that way. The MSRP on the 809 was 1100.00.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-27-2012, 09:30 PM
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I visited a place that sold integra once. The worker said that it has a better warranty then the onkyo and sounds pretty good. This place sold outdoor grills to cook with and other things, so I couldn't hear the receiver. It was a sound installation company. Someone on avs a while back told me that Integra is Onkyos top of the line receiver. The dealer told me that he couldn't go below the msrp. He said maybe if found a cheaper price but may not be able to match it. That might explain what oztech said about the place afraid to lose distribution for going below msrp.
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-28-2012, 07:41 AM
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It has been talked about quite a bit that the Integra AVR/prepros have "better" internal components when compared to similar Onkyos. It has been shown that the Integra 80.2 and Onkyo 5508 are identical internally. Other than the Integra have a longer warranty and Onkyo having the Pure Audio mode they are indentical as far as I have read here. The Integra line is more expensive because it is sold mostly by dedicated dealers that are normally installers. There is usually not much in the way of discounts from these dealers. Onkyo products are largely sold online and one can get lower pricing due to this.

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post #5 of 20 Old 03-28-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

It has been talked about quite a bit that the Integra AVR/prepros have "better" internal components when compared to similar Onkyos. It has been shown that the Integra 80.2 and Onkyo 5508 are identical internally. Other than the Integra have a longer warranty and Onkyo having the Pure Audio mode they are indentical as far as I have read here. The Integra line is more expensive because it is sold mostly by dedicated dealers that are normally installers. There is usually not much in the way of discounts from these dealers. Onkyo products are largely sold online and one can get lower pricing due to this.

Bill

Your assesment is spot on in my opinion. If Integra recently being added to the recall doesn't convince people of this, I dunno what will.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-28-2012, 08:18 AM
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Some basic understanding of manufacturing process is required here. When electronics are built, all of the components inside them are graded based on their individual performance before being assembled. Most products are built with parts that fit within a certain "tolerance" range, so there is some variation from one unit to another, even within the same model run.

Integra products are all built with components that are shown to come from the very highest performance rankings. Onkyo products get components that may come from that same pool, but have a wider total "tolerance" level, so may not have as good of performance.

The important question is whether or not that translates into any additional performance in normal usage.

Integra does come with a longer warranty than Onkyo.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-28-2012, 09:51 PM
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It should be noted here that the Integra models that are affected are the DTR 20.3 30.3 and 40.3. The 50.3 70.3 and 80.3 are not affected by the same recall of it's Onkyo brothers 3009 or 5009.

I work with electronic components daily and I can vouch that components within a certain lot are not all spec'd equally. Integras can be had for under MSRP. I guess your deal will be based on how eager the salesman is to shed a receiver in order to keep stock and his store on top in sales. I have the 80.3 and absolutely love it. It doesn't look that sexy in pictures, but much better looking in person. MSRP difference between Onkyo 5009 vs. Integra DTR 80.3 is a 100 dollars. Not to big of a difference, but you get an extra year in warranty and better components.
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 01:51 AM
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"Some basic understanding of manufacturing process is required here. When electronics are built, all of the components inside them are graded based on their individual performance before being assembled. Most products are built with parts that fit within a certain "tolerance" range, so there is some variation from one unit to another, even within the same model run".

I did not realize that all the componets are tested individually. So what you are saying is the big recall for the 20 pin cable problem was due to poor assembly?
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osiris13 View Post

Integra products are all built with components that are shown to come from the very highest performance rankings. Onkyo products get components that may come from that same pool, but have a wider total "tolerance" level, so may not have as good of performance.

Could you please show some factual proof that shows this is to be true. Which components are the ones that you are referring to?

Bill

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post #10 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 06:12 AM
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This article is a good read... I am not saying that Onkyo has these kinds of troubles along with Integra, but where I work the items that we use are for aviation equipment. Not too long ago we had counterfeit part issues on devices that are worth 25,000 a piece. At that time, it was and still is an industry wide problem and the only way to get around it is to buy from a reputable or certified broker. In some cases, even reputable brokers had issues with counterfeit parts. Let’s face it, most if not all components are made in China. Some manufacturers use quality processes while others do not. There are differences in electronic components. Integra's use of "higher grade" parts has yet to be proven, but when you look at the latest recall you will notice that just about every Onkyo model including its flagship models are possibly defective. Integra on the other hand has no issues at the moment with the 50.3, 70.3, and 80.3.

You almost have to wonder if the units are being recalled due to counterfeit parts.

Here is the link:

http://www.ors-labs.com/pdf/MASH07CounterfeitDevice.pdf

Josh D.
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdolotina View Post

Integra's use of "higher grade" parts has yet to be proven, but when you look at the latest recall you will notice that just about every Onkyo model including its flagship models are possibly defective. Integra on the other hand has no issues at the moment with the 50.3, 70.3, and 80.3.

You almost have to wonder if the units are being recalled due to counterfeit parts.

I'm not really familiar with the current issues with current Integra and Onkyo models. The one question I would have is are the Integra and Onkyo models that are having issues made in the same plant? If they are maybe the part(s) that are failing is due to a bad order at that specific plant. If not maybe it is another issue that is due to a bad parts order sent to different plants. It is all speculation until someone has actual inside information on what the issue really is.

Awhile back an AVS member that happens to be an Integra and Onkyo dealer with an authorized onsite repair facility checked to see if Integra did in fact use better grade internal components. He checked a number of vital internal components and found the part numbers to be indentical between the specific model he chose. I do not recall which thread it was in but if anyone is up to searching for those posts they might still be buried here on AVS somewhere.

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post #12 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 06:35 AM
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Bill,

I'll see what I can find. I also, emailed Integra to see what type of answers that I can get out of them.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-29-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdolotina View Post

Bill,

I'll see what I can find. I also, emailed Integra to see what type of answers that I can get out of them.

Josh,

I hope you can find the posts I referred to as they were an interesting read. I wish you luck with Integra but I wouldn't expect much in the way of information from them on the recall issues.

Bill

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 01:11 PM
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Open up an Onkyo then open up an Integra and the first thing You will notice is a far larger Transformer then You will also see a lot of larger capacitors and resistors. I own both Onkyo and Integra and both pretty much sound the same the BIG difference is the quality of components. When looking on sites like ebay You will notice about 25 to 30 % of Onkyo receivers being sold have some sort of problem, when looking at Integra less the 5 % are messed up. My Onkyo TX-SR307 5.1 surround receiver has a tiny transformer when compared to my Integra DTR-20.3 5.2 surround receiver. Both receivers sound incredible but the TX-SR307 can't even use the audio from a HDMI cable. Both units are base models but the Integra DTR-20.3 is amazing when it comes to features and is worth every penny. Also almost all Integra products have Aluminum Face Plates and Metal Volume Knobs unlike the plastic Faceplate and plastic Volume Knob of Onkyo products. When it comes to video almost all but a few Integra base model receivers during certain years can Up convert Video, for about the past 8 years most can also Up scale video (DTR-20.1 and DTR-20.2 can't while my DTR-20.3 can as well as a DTR-20.4). For 60 years Integra has been Onkyo's High End division. The TX-SR307 was $260.00 new and the DTR-20.3 was $600.00 new and I would take a DTR-20.3 any day over a TX-NR626, compare the two and decide for your self.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 02:35 PM
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Time to kleer the air...
Integra and Onkyo AVRs utilize similar features, internal components, software, tooling and design teams:
1. Higher positoned Onkyo AVRs have stronger consumer features than the highest positioned Integra AVRs
2. Higher end Onkyo AVRs (3010/5010) are THX Ultra 2 Plus, while only (1) higher end Integra AVRs (80.3) is THX Ultra 2 Plus
3. For the majority of their internal components, Onkyo and Integra AVRs utilize the same tolerance components. Onkyo has enough buying power to get the better tolerance parts @ competitive pricing
4. The Onkyo and Integra AVRs that are THX Ultra 2 Plus certified have larger power transformers/supplies compared to the AVRs with THX Select 2 compliance
5. Certain tooling parts are metal for Integra and plastic for Onkyo, tooling is more expensive for plastic but their respective material costs for plastic is significantly less
6. All Integra and Onkyo AVRs are assembled in Malaysia, there are (2) factories, they have had (1) factory in Malaysia for over 25 years and closed their Japan (Osaka) factory over 3 years ago
7. Their 2nd and latest factory in Malaysia that builds the lower end AVRs was originally owned by Sharp Electronics for assembling their music centers, and was purchased by Onkyo in 2008
8. Note that for Onkyo and Integra AVRs, both brands are built in each factory.

Bottom line...
Integra exists for the CEDIA/AV specialist, since the Onkyo brand does 89% of their corporate sales however the CEDIA/AV specialist needs a brand/product that is not handled by the big box and internet sellers. Integra has been very careful not to repeat the overdistribution issues as experienced by Denon. Primary differences of the Integra AVRs for the CEDIA/AV specialist are certain software features, different ID and longer warranty. Even though Onkyo has generated significant AVR sales $ volume, their bottom line profitability has been weak and even frequently negative... Thats why they have teamed up with Gibson Corp. for financial support...

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post


Could you please show some factual proof that shows this is to be true. Which components are the ones that you are referring to?


Bill
Bill when we were dealers for Integra the product brochures told that they in fact used higher tolerance resistors and caps I did not save any and we have not been a dealer in 3 years after we had to service way to many it was not worth the trouble which is a shame because they did at one time offer the best bang for the buck.
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Bill when we were dealers for Integra the product brochures told that they in fact used higher tolerance resistors and caps I did not save any and we have not been a dealer in 3 years after we had to service way to many it was not worth the trouble which is a shame because they did at one time offer the best bang for the buck.

oztech,

I stand corrected then. I recall a member that was an Onkyo/Integra dealer which also had a repair facility on site. He looked up the service manuals and part numbers for one of the recent Onkyo/Integra prepros. He posted that all part numbers that he found were the same between the two different prepros. When I read this I assumed that there was no significant differences between the Onkyo and Integra lines.

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post #18 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

oztech,

I stand corrected then. I recall a member that was an Onkyo/Integra dealer which also had a repair facility on site. He looked up the service manuals and part numbers for one of the recent Onkyo/Integra prepros. He posted that all part numbers that he found were the same between the two different prepros. When I read this I assumed that there was no significant differences between the Onkyo and Integra lines.

Bill
Actually if anyone can hear the difference I would be surprised but the parts were the same just the output transistors were supposedly pair matched and they used 1% tolerance on some of their components guess that tighter tolerance warranted an extra year of warranty .
I have not had the top off of one lately so they may be identical now the earlier tell tell was the gold ban on the resistors versus silver.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Actually if anyone can hear the difference I would be surprised but the parts were the same just the output transistors were supposedly pair matched and they used 1% tolerance on some of their components guess that tighter tolerance warranted an extra year of warranty .
I have not had the top off of one lately so they may be identical now the earlier tell tell was the gold ban on the resistors versus silver.

I would be surprised as well. Thanks for posting the differences that you found, very interesting.

Bill

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post #20 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 05:12 AM
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Any advice on getting my Integra DTR 50.2 fixed? When I power it on, the clicking noise I usually hear is absent and I'm not getting any sound. I'll unplug it, turn it off/on a few times and it may work but besides that, nothing. Anyone have this same problem? I wanted to know what I'm getting myself in to because I've read that getting a receiver fixed can take a long time and I have A NFL kick off party on Thursday that in hosting.
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