Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1115 Old 05-02-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

It's unlikely that you would hear any difference between the dacs. Also you would lose out on XT32 so I would just use hdmi and not worry about it.

Thank you and Glasswolf for the help.
Yeah, I always planned on doing it only by HDMI, but when I have questions, I need to find an answer.
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post #272 of 1115 Old 05-02-2012, 05:20 PM
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Has anyone measured the power usage with hybrid standby mode?

This is a feature that I would like but I disabled it on my 808 because the unit drew 70 watts when "off".

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post #273 of 1115 Old 05-02-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kblev View Post

I looked at some BDP's and saw that some have 7.1 outputs. Also HDMI. So, if they have HDMI, really you don't need analog outs, true? Also, looking, Oppo seemed to have one that has 32bit DAC's. Would you run it through the outs if your AVR only had 24 bit DAC's or would HDMI cover that also?

The difference between a 24 bit and 32 bit DAC is for the most part little more than the name. Almost all the sound you will ever hear is encoded at 16 bits. One of the key things about any DAC system is that the actual DAC chip used is about the least important component. The dominant aspect that affects the sound is the implementation of the whole DAC circuit. Here circuit board layout, power supply, clock, passive components make a much greater difference. You will find very expensive standalone DACs that use what appear to be cheap pedestrian (even 16 bit) DACs, but sound very good. Higher bit width DACs allow for more freedom in use of digital volume control - something you can't usefully do with a 16 bit DAC. That is probably the most important reason you see them.

The Oppo 95 uses the Sabre DAC, which is considered very good, and whilst it is a 32 bit device, the actual meaning of that 32 bits is highly debatable. It cannot (and doesn't even claim to) provide 32 bits worth of linearity. Oppo use the Sabre DAC in the basic 8 channel mode. Many high end DACs use the chip in stereo or even for the insane, balanced mono (where you need two chips per channel). Given it is a $50 part cost can add up quickly.

In the end 24 versus 32 bits is empty specmanship. The number tells you essentially nothing about the actual sound quality. Care taken in design dominates.
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post #274 of 1115 Old 05-02-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post

The dominant aspect that affects the sound is the implementation of the whole DAC circuit. Here circuit board layout, power supply, clock, passive components make a much greater difference.

sometimes i connect a usb drive to my oppo and play music and sometimes I connect my laptop to my 609 via hdmi and play music. The usb drive from the oppo sounds a lot better.

So youre saying its not the fact that its 32 bit but that it has the rotel power supply and a superior circuit design and components
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post #275 of 1115 Old 05-02-2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

sometimes i connect a usb drive to my oppo and play music and sometimes I connect my laptop to my 609 via hdmi and play music. The usb drive from the oppo sounds a lot better.

So youre saying its not the fact that its 32 bit but that it has the rotel power supply and a superior circuit design and components

For the most part yes. But you may be significantly hamstringing your sound when playing back from your laptop, and getting a poor result that does not reflect the intrinsic capability.

A critical point about playing from your laptop will be where the playback volume is set. Don't adjust the volume on the laptop. Turn its playback volume up full. Adjust it only in the receiver. Also, be aware that playback via the internal audio stream in most operating systems can do uncontrolled and usually bad things. Many systems resample the audio. The Benchmark Audio wiki provides a good summary of what needs to be done. Notice that their $1300 stereo DAC is 24 bit.
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post #276 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 05:19 AM
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24 bit, 32 bit... It doesn't really matter, if you subscribe to this information:

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

-GlassWolf
My Home Cinema

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post #277 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by URPREY View Post

I purchased an Onkyo 616 the other day and installed it with my current setup (projector, etc). It worked fine. The next day I swapped out the old HC-4900 projector for an Epson 8350.

I was greeted with "no signal" on everything I tried. At first I thought it might be a cable issue, but the 616 wouldn't output anything via HDMI to ANY monitor. After finding a post about this sleep bug, I pulled the plug and voila, it began working again.

I'm on the latest firmware. Is this fixable? I really like the receiver and features, but I can't deal with this issue.


What are the details of this sleep bug?
Your comment " .. I pulled the plug and voila, it began working again." suggests you resolved this?

I did a Google Search on 'Onkyo sleep bug' and the immediate results are to various Onyko firmware updates for TX-NR708 / TX-NR1007 / PR-SC5507 units,
I can't see the word sleep in the firmware fix summaries but the most comment item reads
Stabilizes operation immediately after power is turned on (thereby avoiding problems of no sound output after the A/V receiver has been in Standby mode for an extended time with network control enabled);

This suggests this might be an old issue and was fixed on older Onkyo units by firmware updates, although if that's the case then it's disappointing to see it reappear on new models.
Of course I'm really speculating here given I don't know what the 'Onkyo sleep bug' is
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post #278 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

24 bit, 32 bit... It doesn't really matter, if you subscribe to this information:

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

That remains one of the best one stop summaries I know of. Required reading. It links to Dan Lavry's very good summary of the mathematics of sampling, which is one of the best sources if you want to understand more.
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post #279 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 07:46 AM
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Anyone know the release date.
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post #280 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

24 bit, 32 bit... It doesn't really matter, if you subscribe to this information:

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

THANX Glasswolf for the COOL link , that's a great site Agian ThanX

Mike

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post #281 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Has anyone measured the power usage with hybrid standby mode?

This is a feature that I would like but I disabled it on my 808 because the unit drew 70 watts when "off".

- Rich

I have the same concern, I believe anyone who has one, and might be able to answer this question, is still under NDA.

Initial reviews of the 616 on Amazon are not flattering. Maybe Onkyo is wisening up and will hold the release for another month or so and iron out some of the bugs.
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post #282 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post


I have the same concern, I believe anyone who has one, and might be able to answer this question, is still under NDA.

Someone over in the forums covering the 616 may be able to help. If the 616 does not pull too much wattage it will likely be the same for the 818.
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post #283 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I have the same concern, I believe anyone who has one, and might be able to answer this question, is still under NDA.

Initial reviews of the 616 on Amazon are not flattering. Maybe Onkyo is wisening up and will hold the release for another month or so and iron out some of the bugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

Someone over in the forums covering the 616 may be able to help. If the 616 does not pull too much wattage it will likely be the same for the 818.

Thanks.
The key is to enable the HDMI pass-through and network control and measure it.

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post #284 of 1115 Old 05-03-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Thanks.
The key is to enable the HDMI pass-through and network control and measure it.

- Rich

Yes, but I do have a concern that they just decided to take the lower consumption with these things off and market it as an "Eco-friendly" feature.

The 616 (while I had it) seemed to put out less heat than the 609 while in standby with network control on, but it ultimately was defective (HDMI problems coming out of standby) and I had to ship it back and re-ordered the 818 instead.
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post #285 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

Yes, but I do have a concern that they just decided to take the lower consumption with these things off and market it as an "Eco-friendly" feature.

The 616 (while I had it) seemed to put out less heat than the 609 while in standby with network control on, but it ultimately was defective (HDMI problems coming out of standby) and I had to ship it back and re-ordered the 818 instead.

My 808 clearly did not have an ECO mode.
Standy with Network control enabled used 70 watts.
Basically, it was ON with the display off.
I have seen some more detailed specs on the Yamaha where each stanby feature adds more power usage. It would be nice to turn it all on with a Killo-watt meter to measure actual usage.

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post #286 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 07:24 AM
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Look what I found guys:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...='ATMUPAR1'

Annoying this don't come out... They probably killed it when the 2012 models dropped the universal port.

Also found an Universal Port wireless subwoofer
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post #287 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 10:20 AM
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the 616 is real cheap right now but im afraid of all the issues you guys keep saying... whats are the main issues with the 616?

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post #288 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RAVEN56706 View Post

the 616 is real cheap right now but im afraid of all the issues you guys keep saying... whats are the main issues with the 616?

My unit did have an HDMI issue where powering it up from standby would cause the HDMI to cycle video on-off repeatedly. It also would forget the last input and always switch to FM radio. Lastly, it stunk up the house with an electronic plasticky smell.

I pretty much assume these were all related. When it was working correctly I had no complaints, it's pretty much the same as the 609 with a slightly jazzed up GUI and a few new features.
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post #289 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 10:43 AM
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rworne, did you keep it or did you get something else? if something else, what did you get?

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post #290 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RAVEN56706 View Post

rworne, did you keep it or did you get something else? if something else, what did you get?

Returned it to the vendor and decided to preorder the 818 instead. I have four other Onkyo receivers and good luck with all of them. The complaints on the 616 I read on Amazon were mostly due to features, not quality. I'm really surprised no one here is talking about them much, I guess most here are waiting for the 818.
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post #291 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 11:02 AM
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sucks... dont have the dough for the 818.... i love onkyo receivers but sucks that the 616 has issues

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post #292 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RAVEN56706 View Post

sucks... dont have the dough for the 818.... i love onkyo receivers but sucks that the 616 has issues

My general observation with Onkyo receivers is they all have issues when first released. These are usually taken care of with firmware updates. The X07 and X08 series had serious problems when first released that were sorted out with firmware updates. The X09 series had minor software issues too, also taken care of.

The X08 series also had a hardware issue causing failures, but this was also identified and addressed with an extended repair policy.
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post #293 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 11:35 AM
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darn.... now i have to think about getting another receiver.... i hope others had some success with the 616... if not, yikes

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post #294 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T100 View Post

Anyone know the release date.

They were pushed back a little so 3 weeks or so.

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post #295 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rworne View Post


My general observation with Onkyo receivers is they all have issues when first released. These are usually taken care of with firmware updates. The X07 and X08 series had serious problems when first released that were sorted out with firmware updates. The X09 series had minor software issues too, also taken care of.

The X08 series also had a hardware issue causing failures, but this was also identified and addressed with an extended repair policy.

A FW update didn't help my 1007's failing HDMI board.
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post #296 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 02:57 PM
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A FW update didn't help my 1007's failing HDMI board.

And there's a huge thread on Onkyo failures too. I only posted my observations & opinions. I've been lucky, but I would also be upset if my AVR decided to crap out a month or two out of warranty due to a design error or defective component.
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post #297 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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the HDMI boards have been designed , the older Video chipsets have now been replaced with less wattage ones , as well as better processing . The 009 line omly had a issue with firmware & the 2 months of a bad part in a small # of units @ the 1st of the year . I have a 1009 & it flawless BUT I do have 5008 that has the ribbon corrosion issue ....

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post #298 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 04:41 PM
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To those that have seen this did it pass audio and no video or nothing at all. Had to unplug mine today to get the video back up. Does Onkyo act pretty quick usually to these problems because if not this will be going back.
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post #299 of 1115 Old 05-04-2012, 08:26 PM
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To those that have seen this did it pass audio and no video or nothing at all. Had to unplug mine today to get the video back up. Does Onkyo act pretty quick usually to these problems because if not this will be going back.

So you had it too? Either no video or 3 seconds on 3 seconds off?

Only fixed itself after unplugging?
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post #300 of 1115 Old 05-05-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

They were pushed back a little so 3 weeks or so.

Man, that is not good news. Really don't want to wait another month for my AVR.

Any updates on when you will be done with your review?

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