Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1113 Old 05-09-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

They get more in stock by Friday.

But thats not available today.

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post #362 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

What part of today don't you understand? People are going on and on about deals they got a week ago, a month ago, or might get later this week, next week, month after, etc.

I'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today?

Seriously, if you guys want to discuss deals, find a more appropriate forum. If you want to discuss the relative merits of the 818 vs the 4311 then this is the appropriate venue, but this price talk has gotten flat out stupid (and, as all of you regulars should know is verboten).

Wow, how can you have 9,000 posts and talk to people like that? Really?

Also, look up the definition of "today", doesn't always mean today, 5-10-12. Could mean nowadays or present day

Last, you can order the 4311 from EE TODAY but you have to wait for them to get it in stock TOMORROW. A dealer that sells a receiver at $1,300 that list for $2,100 is going to sell out time to time.

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post #363 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 12:59 AM
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Hey can anyone say for sure the 818 has been delayed.

Dealers in the UK are still stating pre order for this month, but if some of you are correct and will be another 3 weeks, then that will be june.

I have emailed onkyo about a week ago and they responded 4 days later saying they were on the boat from Japan or china and being delivered any day.

Very anxious, I just replaced a Monitor Audio RSW12 and bought a SVS PC-13Ultra, and really need a little XT32 to help the subwoofer due to my room being 8m length and 5m from sofa to tv. its a really awkward room layout.
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post #364 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 06:53 AM
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JoeRod has a review unit and has said 3 weeks, so I'd say that probably his information came directly from Onkyo. On the bright side, they will probably fix whatever gremlins are holding things up. If they launched it now and people had sleep issues, etc, they would just be in here complaining.
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post #365 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 07:27 AM
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Still no word if the 818 will have SubEQ? I'm surprised that no one has heard or that this information is not available as the 818 is on the Onkyo site.

Bill

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post #366 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 07:39 AM
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Is there any conceivable reason it would not have it if every other XT-32 equipped AVR has this functionality?
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post #367 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Is there any conceivable reason it would not have it if every other XT-32 equipped AVR has this functionality?

The thing that got everyone worried is the picture on the Product page on Onkyos website that shows the rear of the 818. Instead of having SW1 and SW2 like the 3009/5009 is just shows subwoofer and has the two pre-outs like on the 809. That is what got everybody wondering if the 818 will have SubEQ HT. I think that it will but I'm still waiting for the instruction manual to come out. See below, the 3009 is on the left and the 818 is on the right. Again I'm not saying this is some sort of confirmation, it just got everyone talking about a possible XT32 on the 818 with no SubEQ HT.
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post #368 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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So if this JoeRod has a demo unit, why has he not demo'd it, and if he has, why has he not mentioned the Subeq issue ?
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post #369 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

The thing that got everyone worried is the picture on the Product page on Onkyos website that shows the rear of the 818. Instead of having SW1 and SW2 like the 3009/5009 is just shows subwoofer and has the two pre-outs like on the 809. That is what got everybody wondering if the 818 will have SubEQ HT. I think that it will but I'm still waiting for the instruction manual to come out. See below, the 3009 is on the left and the 818 is on the right. Again I'm not saying this is some sort of confirmation, it just got everyone talking about a possible XT32 on the 818 with no SubEQ HT.

I don't have a dog in this hunt since I just got a Denon 4311, but it seems pretty clear from the 818 back panel that there are 2 sub outputs - since they are oriented vertically, it appears they labeled them in the same way as the other pre-outs without explicit L/R or sub1/sub2 labels on each jack.

Whether or not the 818 has SubEQ, the layout of the back panel seems a pretty flimsy rationale to assume that it doesn't.
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post #370 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Is there any conceivable reason it would not have it if every other XT-32 equipped AVR has this functionality?

There is a conceivable reason as it has been discussed here on AVS that future AVRs that have XT32 are not a guaranteed to have SubEQ. It is dependent on the manufacturer (Onkyo in this case) if they want Audyssey in the 818 to have SubEQ with XT32 or not. The fact that the rear panel of the 818 shows two sub outputs that are not labeled Sub1 and Sub2 could indicate that SubEQ is not included. If SubEQ is not onboard then I will not be interested as the 818 will have the same sub EQing capabilities of XT in my 886.

Lets hope that SubEQ is included then the 818 will be a killer AVR. Even if it is not included it will still be a great AVR at a very good price point.

Bill

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post #371 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canada16 View Post

So if this JoeRod has a demo unit, why has he not demo'd it, and if he has, why has he not mentioned the Subeq issue ?

I would assume Joe is under a NDA agreement with Onkyo.

Bill

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post #372 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khollister View Post

I don't have a dog in this hunt since I just got a Denon 4311, but it seems pretty clear from the 818 back panel that there are 2 sub outputs - since they are oriented vertically, it appears they labeled them in the same way as the other pre-outs without explicit L/R or sub1/sub2 labels on each jack.

Whether or not the 818 has SubEQ, the layout of the back panel seems a pretty flimsy rationale to assume that it doesn't.

I was just answering jmpage2's question as to why people would think it might not be there. I don't think that the back panel is any kind of proof as I said in my post.
I can see why people would be worried by the fact that there is no sub1 and sub2 label. The 809 had the sub preouts in the same format and it didn't have subeq ht or have separate vol controls for the subs. Most 7.2 receivers just use an internal y splitter and they don't label their subs separately. Every receiver that has had subeq ht has labeled them as SW1 and SW2. You can see this on the back of your 4311.
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post #373 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I would assume Joe is under a NDA agreement with Onkyo.

Bill

Do you mean this Joerod (lol)?

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post #374 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Do you mean this Joerod (lol)?

Well of course as my response was to a post quoted that specifically mentioned joerod.

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post #375 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 11:35 AM
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just to let people know, SubEQ is the part that sets level and delay for each sub individually. In regards to EQing the sub channel and setting filters that's XT32's job and it does it for both as a whole not separately.
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post #376 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

just to let people know, SubEQ is the part that sets level and delay for each sub individually. In regards to EQing the sub channel and setting filters that's XT32's job and it does it for both as a whole not separately.

Exactly correct. Audyssey does not do true 2 channel sub eq. It sets delay and gain for each sub but treats all subs as 1 sub as far as eq goes.

Sub eq in general is greatly flawed since all 3 components, delay, gain, and eq are strongly dependant on where you sit. Particularly at lower frequencies. You can optimize it for one spot, but not for more than one.
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post #377 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Exactly correct. Audyssey does not do true 2 channel sub eq. It sets delay and gain for each sub but treats all subs as 1 sub as far as eq goes.

Sub eq in general is greatly flawed since all 3 components, delay, gain, and eq are strongly dependant on where you sit. Particularly at lower frequencies. You can optimize it for one spot, but not for more than one.

I wouldn't say flawed, just a design choice by Audyssey. I forgot where I read it but it explained why in their minds EQing both as one was more beneficial.
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post #378 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 12:28 PM
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Just had a email from Joe, and he said he has 2 more reviews and he will be doing the 818, so hopefully any day.
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post #379 of 1113 Old 05-10-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

JoeRod has a review unit and has said 3 weeks, so I'd say that probably his information came directly from Onkyo. On the bright side, they will probably fix whatever gremlins are holding things up. If they launched it now and people had sleep issues, etc, they would just be in here complaining.

I saw an article about it posted today and it said "end of the month" which works with the three weeks being tossed about.
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post #380 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 09:42 AM
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I found out some interesting news today:

Apparently Onkyo is planning on adding Airplay to certain 2012 models. There will be a TX-NR515AE and TX-NR616AE (which are different from the current TX-NR515 and TX-NR616 now shipping) that support Apple's Airplay protocol.

How they plan on doing this is still a mystery to me. It could be a mid-year HW upgrade or it could be a free or paid FW upgrade. These new models appear in Onkyo's Remote 2 Application as well as in their new protocol spec.

The new commands supported are: Airplay Artist, Airplay Album, Airplay Title, Airplay Time Info, Airplay Playback status. These commands are listed as compatible "only with AE model".

Also found:
Smart Grid command functions, ability to adjust A/V sync from the network/serial port, expanded DAB functions. HDRadio is not listed as a deleted function, so perhaps it will appear in models higher than the TX-NR818. The 2011 models are listed as the last model to support the Universal Port.
HDMI-CEC (RIHD) support is getting better for 2012, RI support is only available for DVD or RI iPod dock.
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post #381 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 09:46 AM
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When I fired up my system last night (TX-NR616) I was prompted for another firmware update. Because my wife and I were getting ready to watch TV, I told it to remind me later.

I didn't make note of the firmware version, but it is no longer finding a new firmware version when I check. Grr.

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post #382 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

I found out some interesting news today:

Apparently Onkyo is planning on adding Airplay to certain 2012 models. There will be a TX-NR515AE and TX-NR616AE (which are different from the current TX-NR515 and TX-NR616 now shipping) that support Apple's Airplay protocol.

How they plan on doing this is still a mystery to me. It could be a mid-year HW upgrade or it could be a free or paid FW upgrade. These new models appear in Onkyo's Remote 2 Application as well as in their new protocol spec.

The new commands supported are: Airplay Artist, Airplay Album, Airplay Title, Airplay Time Info, Airplay Playback status. These commands are listed as compatible "only with AE model".

Also found:
Smart Grid command functions, ability to adjust A/V sync from the network/serial port, expanded DAB functions. HDRadio is not listed as a deleted function, so perhaps it will appear in models higher than the TX-NR818. The 2011 models are listed as the last model to support the Universal Port.
HDMI-CEC (RIHD) support is getting better for 2012, RI support is only available for DVD or RI iPod dock.

Interesting. I would anticipate that they will follow suit across the rest of the line to better compete with Pioneer and Denon.
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post #383 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Interesting. I would anticipate that they will follow suit across the rest of the line to better compete with Pioneer and Denon.

True. I'd expect the 818 and higher to have Airplay capabilities too. The 414 however, is not listed as a possibility - only the 515 and 616. My info does not include the 717 or 818 (yet).
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post #384 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 09:56 AM
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I wonder if this is in some way involved with the delays. It makes little sense to launch these in June and then launch new models 3-4 months later... not to mention the backlash from early adopters who "missed out" on a feature.
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post #385 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I wonder if this is in some way involved with the delays. It makes little sense to launch these in June and then launch new models 3-4 months later... not to mention the backlash from early adopters who "missed out" on a feature.

These new models were listed back in early April at the latest. I think it may have more to do with the issues with the TX-NR616, or just normal production delays. There's no reason to add hardware for Airplay. All they need to do is supply a firmware update to enable it and have the AVR change it's model number ID in the network discovery protocols.

I personally believe (and this is a guess) they will either release it as a free FW update or make it a paid update like Denon did a year or two ago.

Eventually it will be added into new models that roll off the assembly line and either be there or need to be unlocked.

I hope they don't go the paid route.
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post #386 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 10:06 AM
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If they do it as a paid update, it's fine, as they aren't currently advertising that functionality and the unit appears to be appropriately priced.

However, if it requires all new hardware, that would be a ruh-roh moment for sure.

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post #387 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 12:21 PM
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I hope this is a simple firmware update as I have a 3009.
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post #388 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 12:26 PM
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I rather doubt that they will try to firmware enable it in older models, they want people to upgrade to newer models.
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post #389 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

I hope this is a simple firmware update as I have a 3009.

What I have here shows all models prior to 2012 as "no".
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post #390 of 1113 Old 05-11-2012, 02:55 PM
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What I have here shows all models prior to 2012 as "no".

I can only think of one response to that: http://khaaan.com/
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