Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:58 AM
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From Onkyo:

Quote:


Digital Crossover Processing Network

Selected Onkyo network A/V receivers feature an onboard Digital Crossover Processing Network. If the front speakers feature the appropriate connections, two channels each can be used to discretely power the tweeters and woofers in the monitors. The receiver's digital crossovers precisely direct high and low frequencies to the corresponding speaker for improved audio performance.

This still doesn't address the fact that the passive crossovers will still be present in the speakers. Unless they are bypassed this system isn't really a true active crossover. But it might help a little.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooduck View Post

whats this hoopla about a half baked xt32???

what's half baked about it ??

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Old 04-26-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post

From Onkyo:


This still doesn't address the fact that the passive crossovers will still be present in the speakers. Unless they are bypassed this system isn't really a true active crossover. But it might help a little.

That's not controllable by Onkyo. I like the implication, if one desired to open his/her speakers up & revise the wiring , or if they have built their own speakers, then this would be beneficial. The unknown here is, how Onkyo will allow you to select the x-over point., assuming that it's not preset at certain frequencies.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post

From Onkyo:


This still doesn't address the fact that the passive crossovers will still be present in the speakers. Unless they are bypassed this system isn't really a true active crossover. But it might help a little.

what they mean by "appropriate connections" is that the speakers that only have direct connections in the speaker's cabinets to the woofers & tweeter separately & NO crossover Or speakers that have a crossover that is disabled when bi-amping . Will this work on. there are speakers out there that have this as well of custom speakers as well . that's how I understand it ...

Mike

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Old 04-26-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

what's half baked about it ??

This all started with post 33 and is pure speculation without evidence.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

That's not controllable by Onkyo. I like the implication, if one desired to open his/her speakers up & revise the wiring , or if they have built their own speakers, then this would be beneficial. The unknown here is, how Onkyo will allow you to select the x-over point., assuming that it's not preset at certain frequencies.

The problem is that no-one sells speakers like this. Sure you can build your own, but that is not much of a market, and not what Onkyo say. Also there is a lot more to crossover design than just picking a crossover frequency. There are many more parameters. Even with an active digital crossover (which avoids a number of issues with passive crossovers) a satisfactory result requires a lot of care and optimisation. This is a mid range consumer device. Adding a feature than 99% of users would not even understand the nature of, let alone have the skill to make use of, just seems strange.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:10 AM
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I did it too.

I just pulled the trigger on the NR-818 at Amazon using $400 of Amazon card points.

This will be my first home theater
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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I want to know why the NR818 is suppoedly the replacement for the NR809, but it's SRP is $100 higher, and for that I lose the Universal port, thus the iPod dock and HD radio tuner, and I lose analog multi-channel inputs. How exactly is this an upgrade?

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Old 04-27-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

I want to know why the NR818 is suppoedly the replacement for the NR809, but it's SRP is $100 higher, and for that I lose the Universal port, thus the iPod dock and HD radio tuner, and I lose analog multi-channel inputs. How exactly is this an upgrade?

We won't know if it's an 809 upgrade until onkyo releases the rest of the lineup. It might turn out to be that they axed the 1000 series and the 818 is really a replacement for the 1009.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

I want to know why the NR818 is suppoedly the replacement for the NR809, but it's SRP is $100 higher, and for that I lose the Universal port, thus the iPod dock and HD radio tuner, and I lose analog multi-channel inputs. How exactly is this an upgrade?

The 818 is the first receiver with an MSRP under 2000 to have XT32 so you may have to give up a couple features for that.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post


We won't know if it's an 809 upgrade until onkyo releases the rest of the lineup. It might turn out to be that they axed the 1000 series and the 818 is really a replacement for the 1009.

I can tell you that there definitely will be a 1010, 3010, and 5010. I have a list of the 2012 lineup and the only ones I don't have on that list are the PR-SC5509 and DTR-80.3 replacement models. Even so, that does not mean they won't show up.
LL
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:28 PM
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While I have been an avid Onkyo owner for several years, I will no longer consider them reflecting on the issues they have had in the past five years, failing HDMI boards, coating issues on the boards, etc. I had to send my 905 and 906 in for repairs. Their quality control is suspect and their customer support in the U.S. is horrible. caveat emptor.

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Old 04-27-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

We won't know if it's an 809 upgrade until onkyo releases the rest of the lineup. It might turn out to be that they axed the 1000 series and the 818 is really a replacement for the 1009.

Amazon already lists the 818 as the replacement for the 809, and being a replacement for a higher model, the 1009, would be even worse.. going from a 9.2 unit to a 7.2? I don't think so. It was bad enough when Onkyo stopped putting a switched 120VAC outlet on the back of their AV receivers, rendering components like the Adcom ACE-515 utterly useless to control turning on and off a separate amplifier that doesn't (as most I've seen don't) offer a 12V trigger.

Along with their product support and quality issues, Onkyo is going right down the tubes.

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Old 04-27-2012, 04:52 PM
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Hello,
I definitely think the 818 is the replacement for the 809 and while the MSRP did go up $100, to get XT32/SubEQ HT at that price is going to make this Model a huge hit.
I do lament the loss of MCH Inputs and the U-Port, but for the vast majority the juice is well worth the squeeze. Moreover, with more and more SACD Players being able to output DSD over HDMI, the loss of the MCH Inputs is not as big of a loss for many.

The TX-NR717 is the AVR which utterly confounds me. Not only do they take a 700 Series all the way up to the $1000 price point, they amazingly go from MultEQ XT to 2EQ. While only the 705 and 709 offered MultEQ XT, the 706, 707, and 708 all at least offered MultEQ. Now, the only major advantage the 717 has over the 616 is Preamp Outputs.

While the 709 was the Midrange AVR that made the most sense to me, the 717 simply does not make sense to me. If I owned a 709 and Onkyo replaced it with a 717, I would be seething in anger. This is the first time I think I could say this about the replacement model to this extent. The TX-NR1007 to 1008 was a downgrade, but this seems so much worse.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

I can tell you that there definitely will be a 1010, 3010, and 5010. I have a list of the 2012 lineup and the only ones I don't have on that list are the PR-SC5509 and DTR-80.3 replacement models. Even so, that does not mean they won't show up.

can U post a link to that list I love to see it .. been waiting on what I'm going to buy for the living room

Mike

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Old 04-27-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

Amazon already lists the 818 as the replacement for the 809, and being a replacement for a higher model, the 1009, would be even worse.. going from a 9.2 unit to a 7.2? I don't think so. It was bad enough when Onkyo stopped putting a switched 120VAC outlet on the back of their AV receivers, rendering components like the Adcom ACE-515 utterly useless to control turning on and off a separate amplifier that doesn't (as most I've seen don't) offer a 12V trigger.

Along with their product support and quality issues, Onkyo is going right down the tubes.

Sales statistics render your argument wrong
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

can U post a link to that list I love to see it .. been waiting on what I'm going to buy for the living room

The list is buried in the Onkyo Remote 2 iOS application.

It doesn't tell you much except for what inputs it uses, number of zones, and network services.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Sales statistics render your argument wrong

I disagree. Just because the Escort sold in greater numbers than a 600 series Mercedes, does that make the Escort the better car? No. Your argument is invalid.

The fact that Onkyo has gone from features like HD radio being built-in, to being a $150 option, to removing the port for their optional tuner all together, all the while increasing the price of each consecutive model, is just dumb.

Since many better subwoofers have their own room equalization built-in, I don't see XT32 as being an improvement great enough to render all of the shortcomings of the 818 versus the 809 worth the cost.

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Old 04-27-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

The list is buried in the Onkyo Remote 2 iOS application.

It doesn't tell you much except for what inputs it uses, number of zones, and network services.

Cool thanx ... I waz hoping ...

Mike

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Old 04-27-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

I disagree. Just because the Escort sold in greater numbers than a 600 series Mercedes, does that make the Escort the better car? No. Your argument is invalid.

Sorry but another totally irrelevant car analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

Since many better subwoofers have their own room equalization built-in, I don't see XT32 as being an improvement great enough to render all of the shortcomings of the 818 versus the 809 worth the cost.

Not many affordable subwoofers have EQ (as good as Sub EQ) so that argument against XT32 is not valid IMO. So you are suggesting spending more money on a sub or subs to get one with built in EQ? Even after doing that are you sure the EQ system would work as well as XT32? Seems like you are suggesting to spend more money on EQ equipped subs for what you could get in the 818 for much less. I have a Rythmik F12SE and plan on adding another in the future. There is no way I am switching sub manufacturers to get one with built in EQ.

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Old 04-27-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

I disagree. Just because the Escort sold in greater numbers than a 600 series Mercedes, does that make the Escort the better car? No. Your argument is invalid.

The fact that Onkyo has gone from features like HD radio being built-in, to being a $150 option, to removing the port for their optional tuner all together, all the while increasing the price of each consecutive model, is just dumb.

Since many better subwoofers have their own room equalization built-in, I don't see XT32 as being an improvement great enough to render all of the shortcomings of the 818 versus the 809 worth the cost.

Car analogy aside, there's good reason for Onkyo raising prices. The price of the US dollar compared to Japanese Yen has changed dramatically (USD dropped 30% in value) over the past few years.

2006 120Y/1USD
2007 110Y/1USD
2008 100Y/1USD
2009 90Y/1USD
2010 - 2012 ~80Y/1USD
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:53 PM
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I have a 809, in the 30 day return period with a good serial #. I can exchange for a 818 for more money, would this be worth it to get XT32 for a 5.1 system?

How much of a difference is there going to be, going from XT to XT32 on a 5.1 system?

I have NO plans on going to a system with more speakers or subs. (WAF)

Thanks,
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmach View Post

I have a 809, in the 30 day return period with a good serial #. I can exchange for a 818 for more money, would this be worth it to get XT32 for a 5.1 system?

How much of a difference is there going to be, going from XT to XT32 on a 5.1 system?

I have NO plans on going to a system with more speakers or subs. (WAF)

Thanks,

I would return the 809 and go for the 818. I have seen many people here on AVS that have said XT32 is big step up in overall performance over XT. For the SubEQ alone it would be worth it IMO. That is assuming SubEQ is included with XT32 with the 818. So far every XT32 equipped AVR/prepro has SubEQ but I would double check to make sure as the 818 is brand new.

Bill

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Old 04-27-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I would return the 809 and go for the 818. I have seen many people here on AVS that have said XT32 is big step up in overall performance over XT. For the SubEQ alone it would be worth it IMO. That is assuming SubEQ is included with XT32 with the 818. So far every XT32 equipped AVR/prepro has SubEQ but I would double check to make sure as the 818 is brand new.

Bill

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, returning the 809 I just got.. however is SubEQ useful if you only have 1 sub, and no plans to expand to 2?

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Old 04-27-2012, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, returning the 809 I just got.. however is SubEQ useful if you only have 1 sub, and no plans to expand to 2?

XT32 is worth it just for the better EQ it does period ..

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Old 04-27-2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, returning the 809 I just got.. however is SubEQ useful if you only have 1 sub, and no plans to expand to 2?

From what I have read XT32 will EQ one sub much better than XT. So whether you have one sub or two XT32 is well worth it.

Bill

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Old 04-27-2012, 10:37 PM
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I wish I knew this 3 weeks ago.. Thx

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Old 04-28-2012, 05:05 AM
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As of right now, I have 4 subwoofers, a Behringer DEQ2496 EQ and a Dayton Audio OmniMic to measure my system.

I am super happy with my setup and subs work great with each other and all 9 of my speakers. When I get the 818, I'll see if it can do a better job then me on EQing and blending the subs together and with the speakers. I am hoping that the 818 can EQ down to 20hz and has some sort of phase control between the 2 subs outs.

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Old 04-28-2012, 08:42 AM
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XT32 is worth it just for the better EQ it does period ..

Amen.

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Old 04-28-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Sorry but another totally irrelevant car analogy.

Your failure to see the relevance does not make it irrelevant. That was also my first car analogy, so I don't see the need for the "another" part.

Quote:


Not many affordable subwoofers have EQ (as good as Sub EQ) so that argument against XT32 is not valid IMO. So you are suggesting spending more money on a sub or subs to get one with built in EQ? Even after doing that are you sure the EQ system would work as well as XT32? Seems like you are suggesting to spend more money on EQ equipped subs for what you could get in the 818 for much less. I have a Rythmik F12SE and plan on adding another in the future. There is no way I am switching sub manufacturers to get one with built in EQ.

Bill

Define, "affordable." The Sunfire true subwoofer EQ series all have equalization that works quite well, and that still doesn't fix all the things Onkyo is stripping out of a newer, more expensive model trying to claim it's an improvement.

nice try.

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